If you click on the hilighted words in my earlier post, you'll see what you were looking for, T-Fo.
--Patrick
Rules/Infractions Speak now or forever hold your peace.
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
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--Patrick
fade
Staff member
They weren't saying it wasn't derogatory. In fact they went out of their way to say it was. They were saying it was derogatory, but detached from homosexuality at this point.
Dave
Staff member
Here's an example:
http://www.halforums.com/forum/search.php?searchid=88367
This has been reported. Obviously Ross meant nothing by it as an insult towards gays. I expect that the person reporting it is testing the waters of our reaction to this incident. DO NOT DENIGRATE THE USER! What I want is thoughts on this.
In my personal opinion, this is an obvious case of a slang term having more than one meaning and is NOT deserving of an infraction. Am I incorrect?
http://www.halforums.com/forum/search.php?searchid=88367
This has been reported. Obviously Ross meant nothing by it as an insult towards gays. I expect that the person reporting it is testing the waters of our reaction to this incident. DO NOT DENIGRATE THE USER! What I want is thoughts on this.
In my personal opinion, this is an obvious case of a slang term having more than one meaning and is NOT deserving of an infraction. Am I incorrect?
Dave
Staff member
You do realize that this word has been censored since we got vBulletin, right? This is not a new thing.
Q
Qonas
The rules are fine and it's gonna help everyone know where boundaries lie and help the mods out immensely. I just wish language wasn't brought into it. As a writer and pissed-off anti-P.C. dude, it infuriates me to no end to see people try and legislate thought by controlling speech. It's the intent, not the word itself. But I understand, considering the overwhelming amount of alternative people here.
Should be, considering the activity is immoral and illegal.
Cajungal
Staff member
In that situation, Dave, I admit I wouldn't really count it.
Some words that once meant only one really terrible thing have been integrated into our culture to mean other things. It doesn't mean they're nice words, but it happens, and I don't consider it hate speech... just stupidity.
It doesn't make sense to me to say, "Well you don't allow this word, but you do allow that word, and that's not fair..." as all words have different connotations and shouldn't be treated the same.
Some words that once meant only one really terrible thing have been integrated into our culture to mean other things. It doesn't mean they're nice words, but it happens, and I don't consider it hate speech... just stupidity.
It doesn't make sense to me to say, "Well you don't allow this word, but you do allow that word, and that's not fair..." as all words have different connotations and shouldn't be treated the same.
Shannow
Staff member
You do realize that this word has been censored since we got vBulletin, right? This is not a new thing.[/QUOTE]
i know. I have been meaning to talk to you about that.
Ross
Staff member
Link doesn't work for me, but I'm assuming it's TFO's CS:S thread about me. Do we already have White Knights reporting every single little incident that could MAYBE break the rules? The term "retry fag" is used (widely in FPS games) for players who quit and then immediately rejoin a server because they want to reset their Kill : Death ratio (even though in the end it makes exactly NO difference and just makes you look like a n00b for caring about your K : D that much).
So, in conclusion, it is not deserving of an infraction, which is why I wrote it in the first place.
this thread needs more GiadaThat is one scaaary picture. She looks even more excited than Giada. I wasn't sure that was possible.
--Patrick
The fact that "fag" is a synonym for someone you don't like, something derogatory is exactly why it's damaging to homosexuals. And I reported it.
I
Iaculus
Why is it that I keep reading that thread title as 'speak now or forever hold your penis'?
This forum has corrupted my innocent mind.
This forum has corrupted my innocent mind.
S
Steven Soderburgin
It's never going to be completely detached from homosexuality. That's why it's used as an insult.
Ross
Staff member
Except for the fact that people who actually use their brain can tell the difference between something that hurts the gay community and something that doesn't mean anything beyond what was previously mentioned in my earlier post. I find that, given the context of my post, it does not hurt the gay community in any way. At no point in writing or reading my post did I think of gay people when the word fag popped up.
And the "use their brain" part isn't an attack against you, since I'm pretty damn sure you already know the difference, and you're just trying to be PC about it (see: my White Knight comment). I'm just generalizing it to the forum.
S
Steven Soderburgin
But you still think of the word "fag" as negative or insulting, and it's always going to be tied to homosexuality because that's where the word comes from. People call gays "fags" to hurt them. It may not be a conscious association, but it's still present.
I do believe that using "fag" continually as a synonym for something lame/stupid/derogatory hurts the gay community.
Ross
Staff member
Very rarely do I say the word fag, and I never, EVER use it against the gay community... which could be said about the vast majority of modern culture. Complain about it and/or report if you must, but others like me want to move on and forget it was even derogatory towards gays in the first place. Does this make me insensitive? No. I just know when certain things need to be let go so everyone can move on with their lives.
That's all I have to say about the subject. No point in debating two different opinions that won't change.
I think halforums needs to decide if it wants to be a place where it's okay to call someone a fag or not.
C
Chazwozel
You're such a fucking Homer.
You're such a fucking Homer.[/QUOTE]
What does this mean in this context?
C
Chazwozel
You're such a fucking Homer.[/QUOTE]
What does this mean in this context?[/QUOTE]
You tell me. I'll just leave vague remarks like this. I know what I meant. You'll never know! Report away, Plinko.
S
Steven Soderburgin
Ross, the fact that you admittedly wouldn't use it against gays shows that there is association that you think about whether you know it or not. Using words like "fag" to insult or saying something you don't like is "gay" does perpetuate the idea that being gay is a negative whether you actually believe that being gay is a negative or not. The words people say have meaning and weight attached to them. That's why there is such a battle over the word "marriage" right now. You have to understand that even when it's not directed at gays, the word "fag" hurts anyway.
You're such a fucking Homer.[/QUOTE]
What does this mean in this context?[/QUOTE]
You tell me. I'll just leave vague remarks like this. I know what I meant. You'll never know! Report away, Plinko.[/QUOTE]
Plinko is my favorite game on The Price is Right
But I have no idea what you're talking about.
ElJuski
Staff member
They weren't saying it wasn't derogatory. In fact they went out of their way to say it was. They were saying it was derogatory, but detached from homosexuality at this point.[/QUOTE]
Oh, well, good on them for still saying it's derogatory. But the whole detached from homosexuality is kind of flimsy. Here's why: homophobia, and those words regarding homosexuality is based on a way of psychologically affirming one's non-homosexuality by proving the homosexuality of an other.
So, let's culturally remove some other derogatory terms, shall we? Did you know ****** (the n-word, for the censors) now means chipmunk?
It's funny to assume that just because SOMEBODY doesn't use the word in a denigrating way, that suddenly everybody isn't using it in a denigrating way. And it's really funny to see people cloying to straws about using a word and covering up in faulty rationalizations than just accepting that a word is offensive.
You can be a good person and understand cultural diversity and still use that word--but if you really understood its implications, it would be in the sarcastic or absurd sense every time.
I'm reminded of the episode of The Office where Michael Scott exclaims incredulously: "But I would never call a gay person faggy!"
C
Chazwozel
You're such a fucking Homer.[/QUOTE]
What does this mean in this context?[/QUOTE]
You tell me. I'll just leave vague remarks like this. I know what I meant. You'll never know! Report away, Plinko.[/QUOTE]
Plinko is my favorite game on The Price is Right
But I have no idea what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]I'm saying that a word only has the power to hurt you if you let it.
fade
Staff member
They actually made that joke in the episode.
Juski, I agree with you. Like I said, it wasn't their strongest argument ever, and they're usually fairly spot on.
Ross
Staff member
As far as I'm concerned, the association only exists when there is the INTENT of using it as an association.
They actually made that joke in the episode.
[/QUOTE]
I... I know... that's why I quoted it....
---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------
You're wrong.
C
Chazwozel
You cigarettes are all nuts. Now get back to work you lazy porch monkeys.
ElJuski
Staff member
In a nutshell, this, so much this.
And this. It sucks that everyone is jumping on you two without actually critically looking at what you say. I mean, I can't help but blame your guys' overall repoire with the forum...but there's much to be said here. And people are getting defensive, instead of looking at the words they use critically.
fade
Staff member
They actually made that joke in the episode.
[/QUOTE]
I... I know... that's why I quoted it....
[/QUOTE]
I meant in the SP episode we were talking about.
ElJuski
Staff member
They actually made that joke in the episode.
Juski, I agree with you. Like I said, it wasn't their strongest argument ever, and they're usually fairly spot on.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I know. I was responding mostly to Ross n crew, even though I quoted you at first to respond at what the episode was actually saying. Only caught the jist of it.
M
makare
Are derogatory words so necessary to conversation that we have to have this kind of detailed discussion about them?
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