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And somewhere a Calleja wept...

#1



makare

http://www.musicspace.com/product.aspx?productcode=MS9215

That really made me laugh.

:lol:


#2



Kitty Sinatra

Awesome, you can hear excepts from all the songs.


#3

Krisken

Krisken

I feel sorry for the Beatles. Everything they did Joe Cocker did better.


#4

North_Ranger

North_Ranger

I think John Lennon would be glad to be dead...


#5

Cajungal

Cajungal

Oh GOD, I hate those albums. Some of my little cousins have them. Who came up with this idea? Because it's terrible.


#6

North_Ranger

North_Ranger

Want to know what's worse?

Cover songs by the Smurfs!


#7



makare

I actually don't mind the albums in general. We had them at the preschool I worked at and they were fun for the kids. I just think covering the Beatles is hilarious.


#8

Vagabond

V.Bond

Krisken said:
I feel sorry for the Beatles. Everything they did Joe Cocker did better.
Click to expand...
It's almost as if the Beatles were doing the cover versions.


#9

Chippy

Chippy

.


#10

Baerdog

Baerdog

Oh god, the Hey Jude cover is especially bad.


#11

strawman

strawman

hehehe. My kids enjoy the one or two kidz bop albums we have (included with happy meals at mcdonalds some time ago. They are less irritating than the multitude of "children's music" cds that are really terrible renditions of nursery rhymes.

bleah.


#12

Baerdog

Baerdog

But if they like, for instance, the Kidz Bop cover album of the Beatles, wouldn't they be better served by being introduced to the Beatles themselves?


#13



Kitty Sinatra

Not really. Some of the Beatles songs are less bouncy, or more seriously intoned than these things.


#14

Baerdog

Baerdog

So get them into the earlier, poppier songs first before having them listen to the heavier material.


#15



Kitty Sinatra

But why does it matter if they listen to the original or not? It's not as though the Beatles were really stellar musicians and vocalists. I'd be on your side if we were talking about covers of Celine Dion, as there's simply no way to match her skill and that's what she's all about. But we don't listen to the Beatles because they nailed the performances with impeccable skill (that's laughable); it's good for a whole other set of reasons, and those reasons let anyone cover them and be interesting.

There are plenty of Beatles songs that have been done better than the Beatles did them. And I don't just mean quality-wise: The connection between listener and song can be improved by a cover. These songs may very well fit that category.


#16

Baerdog

Baerdog

This isn't an argument that I was applying to just the Beatles. They were the example I used, yes, but it applies to other bands as well.


#17



Kitty Sinatra

So what's your take on Rush's recent album, Feedback, where they covered songs by the stars of the 60s?


#18

Baerdog

Baerdog

That's fine, I'm not against covers themselves. A good cover, by a good artist can add great things to a song. I personally love Jimi Hendrick's version of "All Along the Watchtower" a lot more than Bob Dylan's version. I was asking why a parent would rather let their kids listen to the watered-down Kidz Bop version of a song, something that is not a good cover, instead of introducing them to the original artists.


#19



Kitty Sinatra

The answer's obvious: The original Beatles recordings don't appeal to that parent's kids while this does. Therefore, they choose this.

This even appeals to me more. I've never much cared for the Beatles' recordings of their own songs.


#20

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Grue, you are trying too hard...


#21

Cajungal

Cajungal

Baerdog7 said:
That's fine, I'm not against covers themselves. A good cover, by a good artist can add great things to a song. I personally love Jimi Hendrick's version of "All Along the Watchtower" a lot more than Bob Dylan's version. I was asking why a parent would rather let their kids listen to the watered-down Kidz Bop version of a song, something that is not a good cover, instead of introducing them to the original artists.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much my beef too. I grew up listening to real bands--sure, also Raffi and kiddy stuff like that--but mostly bands and singers that my parents listened to. I guess one of the problems is that some songs aren't appropriate for kids and have to be edited a little. While my sister and I thought it was hilarious that my niece knows all the words to Mason Jennings' "Your New Man" ("woah-woah woah woah woah woah, Right now he's a prob'ly moanin' your name..."), others might not think so.


#22



Philosopher B.

It's creepy when actual kids sing Octopuses' Garden. Ringo is the ultimate kid.


#23



Chazwozel

Gruebeard said:
But why does it matter if they listen to the original or not? It's not as though the Beatles were really stellar musicians and vocalists. I'd be on your side if we were talking about covers of Celine Dion, as there's simply no way to match her skill and that's what she's all about. But we don't listen to the Beatles because they nailed the performances with impeccable skill (that's laughable); it's good for a whole other set of reasons, and those reasons let anyone cover them and be interesting.

There are plenty of Beatles songs that have been done better than the Beatles did them. And I don't just mean quality-wise: The connection between listener and song can be improved by a cover. These songs may very well fit that category.
Click to expand...
cough*homo*cough


#24

Chippy

Chippy

I refuse to think or see why anyone would think Here Comes The Sun is better this way.


#25

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

What made me sad was DEVO 2.0 an anesthetic version of the Original DEVO songs for kids. They had the full cooperation of the original band.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devo_2.0


#26

Charlie Don't Surf

The Lovely Boehner

Chazwozel said:
cough*homo*cough
Click to expand...
what does this mean


#27

Baerdog

Baerdog

I think he's saying that only gay dudes like Celine Dion. Or something.


#28

Krisken

Krisken

Charlie Dont Surf;322357][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
cough*homo*cough
Click to expand...
what does this mean[/QUOTE]
Careful, you're going to need your uniform.


#29

Baerdog

Baerdog

That guy has some absolutely mesmerizing hair.


#30

Timmus

Timmus

sixpackshaker said:
What made me sad was DEVO 2.0 an anesthetic version of the Original DEVO songs for kids. They had the full cooperation of the original band.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devo_2.0
Click to expand...
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I thought it was funny. I'm not surprised they did it either.

I used to listen to Strawberry fields a lot when I was a kid. It warped my young mind.


#31



Kitty Sinatra

Charlie Dont Surf;322357][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
cough*homo*cough
Click to expand...
what does this mean[/QUOTE]

He's calling me gay for dressing up in a ball gown and singing along to Celine Dion in front of the mirror. At those times, even I wonder if I'm gay.


#32



makare

Gruebeard;322433][QUOTE=Charlie Dont Surf;322357][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
cough*homo*cough
Click to expand...
what does this mean[/QUOTE]

He's calling me gay for dressing up in a ball gown and singing along to Celine Dion in front of the mirror. At those times, even I wonder if I'm gay.[/QUOTE]

But I bet you sure look pretty.


#33



Kitty Sinatra

Aw shucks ma'am, it's swell of you to say that.

:blush:


#34

Cajungal

Cajungal

Gruebeard;322433][QUOTE=Charlie Dont Surf;322357][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
cough*homo*cough
Click to expand...
what does this mean[/QUOTE]

He's calling me gay for dressing up in a ball gown and singing along to Celine Dion in front of the mirror. At those times, even I wonder if I'm gay.[/QUOTE]

Bah, Chaz will never be as pretty or as talented as you. Do you also beat your chest dramatically?


#35



Twitch

ITT: The Beatles weren't flawless musicians and performers.


#36



Iaculus

Twitch said:
ITT: The Beatles weren't flawless musicians and performers.
Click to expand...
Still better than Kidz Bop.


#37



Kitty Sinatra

Cajungal said:
Bah, Chaz will never be as pretty or as talented as you. Do you also beat your chest dramatically?
Click to expand...
At every dramatic moment in a song.


#38

Calleja

Calleja

I've actually heard much, much worse covers, unfortunately.


#39



JCM

Calleja said:
I've actually heard much, much worse covers, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Christmas time is here again
Christmas time is here again
Want a plane that loops the loop,
Me, I want a Hula-Hoop...


#40

Calleja

Calleja

That's one example right there, yes.

Here's antother: View attachment 188

Attachments



#41



JCM

Calleja said:
That's one example right there, yes.
Click to expand...
It gets worse-


I cant understand a single thing besides weeediBEEEEE!! WEDIBEEEEEE! WEDIBEEEE! WEDIBEEE! IFGANTFNGHBLLER! WEDIBEEEEEE!

Edit:Or William Shatner. also considered the worst Beatles cover ever
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2995901.stm


Poor John must be rolling in his grave


#42

Espy

Espy

I don't know what you are talking a about JCM, Shatner's version is mind blowing! :p


#43



Chazwozel

Baerdog7 said:
I think he's saying that only gay dudes like Celine Dion. Or something.
Click to expand...

And women do too. Don't narrow it down too much.


#44



Chazwozel

Charlie Dont Surf;322357][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
cough*homo*cough
Click to expand...
what does this mean[/QUOTE]

Shut up. I don't need this, now where's my Chicago cd?


#45



nufan

If you don't need it don't ask for it closet bisexual on the downlow for chocolate rain man. Charlie you know exactly what he means don't act so shocked..

Am i the only person ever that doesn't like the beatles? I don't think they suck or anything, I just... don't get into them. They don't make me want to get up and shake my booty, they don't make me want to sing along... they just... are.

p.s. your chicago cd is next to the foreigner vinyl in your attic. It didn't burn with the Boston, Nazereth, Skid Row, Kansas, Alabama, Europe, Asia, New york dolls, Manhattan transfer... linkin park...


#46



Kitty Sinatra

You ain't the only one. I don't care for 'em either


#47



Chazwozel

nufan said:
If you don't need it don't ask for it closet bisexual on the downlow for chocolate rain man. Charlie you know exactly what he means don't act so shocked..

Am i the only person ever that doesn't like the beatles? I don't think they suck or anything, I just... don't get into them. They don't make me want to get up and shake my booty, they don't make me want to sing along... they just... are.

p.s. your chicago cd is next to the foreigner vinyl in your attic. It didn't burn with the Boston, Nazereth, Skid Row, Kansas, Alabama, Europe, Asia, New york dolls, Manhattan transfer... linkin park...
Click to expand...
I...oh my God, I think that is singly the best reply to one of my posts ever. I...I think I love you. But I meant Chicago as in the musical, not the progressive 80's rock band with the one hit from Karate Kid.


#48



JCM

I dont mind the Beatles and yes they were a great band, but I do think they are overated to the level where many great bands will never touch their fame.

Chazwozel;323043][QUOTE=nufan said:
If you don't need it don't ask for it closet bisexual on the downlow for chocolate rain man. Charlie you know exactly what he means don't act so shocked..

Am i the only person ever that doesn't like the beatles? I don't think they suck or anything, I just... don't get into them. They don't make me want to get up and shake my booty, they don't make me want to sing along... they just... are.

p.s. your chicago cd is next to the foreigner vinyl in your attic. It didn't burn with the Boston, Nazereth, Skid Row, Kansas, Alabama, Europe, Asia, New york dolls, Manhattan transfer... linkin park...
Click to expand...
I...oh my God, I think that is singly the best reply to one of my posts ever. I...I think I love you. But I meant Chicago as in the musical, not the progressive 80's rock band with the one hit from Karate Kid.[/QUOTE]Actually Chicago had many hits, like "You are my inspiration" and that "Hard to say Im sorry", and Karate Kid 1's Something Esposito is a multiple grammy winner.

Maybe you are referring to the one hit wonder from Karate Kid 2, as the guy's voice sounds like Chicago's lead singer.


#49



Kitty Sinatra

JCM said:
I dont mind the Beatles and yes they were a great band, but I do think they are overated to the level where many great bands will never touch their fame.
Click to expand...
If I was to add on to that - as I apparently am - I'd like to point out that the fame the Beatles had is very much like the fame that The New Kids on the Block had.

They were pop stars.

If there had been other pop stars at the time, the Beatles might have been lost in the crowd. If there had been no other pop stars at their time, NKotB might have been bigger than Jesus, too.


#50



JCM

Gruebeard;323048][QUOTE=JCM said:
I dont mind the Beatles and yes they were a great band, but I do think they are overated to the level where many great bands will never touch their fame.
Click to expand...
If I was to add on to that - as I apparently am - I'd like to point out that the fame the Beatles had is very much like the fame that The New Kids on the Block had.

They were pop stars.

If there had been other pop stars at the time, the Beatles might have been lost in the crowd. If there had been no other pop stars at their time, NKotB might have been bigger than Jesus, too.[/QUOTE]To be fair, they shed that off and became more han a boyband with this-



#51



Kitty Sinatra

I don't mean to say they were "just" a boy band. I wasn't even thinking about that, actually. Heck, Angelina Jolie might have been a better comparison. She ain't a great actress - doesn't even make great movies - but she's appealing in some pop-culture way. And so she gets in the media, and each media appearance makes her that much more appealing so she gets in the media even more, and it builds like an avalanche until it reaches the point where she grows ever more popular by being popular.


#52



Twitch

That was to say that they WERE. The ITT, or In This Thread, means that only in this thread does a certain not true thing pertain to real life.


#53



Kitty Sinatra

You really think that Lennon was a singer with a skill and range even approaching Celine Dion? That Paul McCartney could match Jimmy Page or Eric Clapton on guitar? That Ringo Starr was the next Buddy Rich, or worthy predecessor to Neil Peart? There's another one, whose name escapes me (and I'm open to acknowledging I should've compared Paul to Les Claypool), so I'll just close by asking:

Really?

(Cause y'know, I didn't say they were bad. Also, I'm not saying the musicians I mentioned are actually the best in their field, just better than their Beatles' counterpart )


#54

Chippy

Chippy

Gruebeard said:
That Paul McCartney could match Jimmy Page or Eric Clapton on guitar?
Click to expand...
Guess it's good he mostly played bass, then.


#55



Kitty Sinatra

That would be why I went on to mention Mr Claypool. Also: I don't know bassists.


#56

Chippy

Chippy

Also, I don't see the point of comparing Lennon or McCartney to Celine Dion. Of course they don't have the range or "skill" she has, but they're a rock band. Celine Dion sings "My Heart Will Go On." Just as I think Lennon would butcher any Celine Dion song, I'm sure she would butcher "I Saw Her Standing There"


#57



Kitty Sinatra

You'd have had to read the point I was making back when I first brought it up.


#58

Chippy

Chippy

Gruebeard said:
You really think that Lennon was a singer with a skill and range even approaching Celine Dion?
Click to expand...
Nah I'll focus on this. See, here is where you compared them. That's what I addressed in my post.


#59



Kitty Sinatra

Do you know why I wrote that?


#60

Chippy

Chippy

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you wanted to know if someone really thought Lennon was as good as Dion?


#61



Kitty Sinatra

Not really, but close enough.

Do you know why I wanted to know that?


#62

Chippy

Chippy

I'm sure it's all some big point I would have got if I actually read this thread. But who does that? I saw you made a comparison I thought was unfair, and I commented on it. That's it.

But keep going with your cute question game. Everyone here thinks you're super rad!


#63

Calleja

Calleja

Since when is the ability to sing the deciding factor on whether a band is awesome or not?

Can you name a better song writing, team or solo, enterprise than Lennon/McCartney?

Like them or not, you can't deny the Beatles were groundbreaking and, less to their merit, they shaped popular music as we know it today. And that's not hyperbole, the actual formula most pop songs use today was a Beatles/George Martin creation.


#64



Kitty Sinatra

Awesome. Calleja's come in on my side. You've expanded on my original point quite well. Thanks.

Not that y'all still have any clue why Celine's been mentioned.


#65

Calleja

Calleja

Also, I should add, that you and several other posters I've noticed are quick to compare the Beatles' fame with disposable pop phenomena like New Kids on the Block and what not.... the difference I'd like to point out here is that The Beatles have held on to pop icon status for nearly 50 years now. Who remembers the New Kids on the Block now? I don't see a "Vanilla Ice: Rock Band" being put out, either.

That longevity right there? That means this band has actually caught the attention of several generations. It's not the same fans of the 60's that are keeping the Beatles famous, they get new fans with every generation. Do you see the backstreet boys being listened to 50 years from now? Are musicals going to be made about, say, Hannah Montana, long after she's retired/died/disappeared? I doubt it.


#66

Calleja

Calleja

Gruebeard said:
Awesome. Calleja's come in on my side. You've expanded on my original point quite well. Thanks.
Click to expand...
No, your point about them becoming popular just because they were popular like, according to you, Angelina Jolie did, is quite destroyed with my point about their fame longevity.


#67



Kitty Sinatra

And now he's left my side! :(


#68

Calleja

Calleja

If your reading comprehension had a higher modifier you'd have known I was NEVER on your side. Notice how I made no new points when I "left" your side? :D


#69



makare

The Beatles were very popular with the Baby Boom generation. People have often complained that the Baby Boomers seem to impose their chosen culture and philosophy from their youth on every other part of culture. That could be why the Beatles remain so popular simply because the generation that truly loved them has so much pull.


#70



Kitty Sinatra

You certainly did. Look:
Calleja said:
Since when is the ability to sing the deciding factor on whether a band is awesome or not?

Can you name a better song writing, team or solo, enterprise than Lennon/McCartney?
Click to expand...
I was saying the same thing, only in more specific terms: The Beatles, while not the best musicians, wrote songs well, songs that are ripe to be covered by other musicians.

And then you go on talking about the popularity. That's where we parted.



EDIT FOR CHIPPY: Celine came up, by the way, because I suggested it was perhaps pointless to cover her songs seeing as what mostly makes her songs worth listening to is her skill in singing them.


#71

Calleja

Calleja

makare1 said:
The Beatles were very popular with the Baby Boom generation. People have often complained that the Baby Boomers seem to impose their chosen culture and philosophy from their youth on every other part of culture. That could be why the Beatles remain so popular simply because the generation that truly loved them has so much pull.
Click to expand...
you do realize they're famous worldwide and not just in the US, right?


#72



makare

Calleja;323167][QUOTE=makare1 said:
The Beatles were very popular with the Baby Boom generation. People have often complained that the Baby Boomers seem to impose their chosen culture and philosophy from their youth on every other part of culture. That could be why the Beatles remain so popular simply because the generation that truly loved them has so much pull.
Click to expand...
you do realize they're famous worldwide and not just in the US, right?[/QUOTE]

Yes, but if the US didn't give a crap about the Beatles, I doubt things like Beatles Rock Band would exist.

Or Kidz Bop Beatles for that matter.


#73

Calleja

Calleja

...are you truly saying that the only reason the Beatles still have worldwide fame is because the US happens to like them? Things like The Beatles Rock Band are a symptom of their popularity, not the cause... they'd still be famous without the video games, I'm sure. And they're covered by artists from aaaall around the world, who are not affected by the baby boom that happened in the US post WWII.


#74



makare

Calleja said:
...are you truly saying that the only reason the Beatles still have worldwide fame is because the US happens to like them?
Click to expand...
Yes, that is pretty much what I am saying and I stand by that statement. if the US didn't celebrate the Beatles at the level they do they would not be nearly as popular. I am not saying they would have disappeared off the map or anything but it would be a drastic difference in popularity.


#75

Calleja

Calleja

For you.

The rest of the world has no problem listening to stuff the US has never heard of. We have popularity charts of our own and everything. Wow, can you imagine that?


#76

Chippy

Chippy

Gruebeard said:
EDIT FOR CHIPPY: Celine came up, by the way, because I suggested it was perhaps pointless to cover her songs seeing as what mostly makes her songs worth listening to is her skill in singing them.
Click to expand...
That's nice. Still not what I was addressing earlier, but nice I guess.


#77



Kitty Sinatra

I can't imagine the world isn't heavily influenced by American tastes. We all consume so much of their culture every day. If it falls off the American radar, I can't see how it won't fall off most everyone else's radar, too.


#78



Kitty Sinatra

You don't even know what you were addressing, Chippy :p


#79

Chippy

Chippy

I do, and I even said what I was.

That's fine, though. Passive aggressive comments work just as well, right? :p


#80

Calleja

Calleja

Gruebeard said:
I can't imagine the world isn't heavily influenced by American tastes. We all consume so much of their culture every day. If it falls off the American radar, I can't see how it won't fall off most everyone else's radar, too.
Click to expand...

Do I really need to list famous people that are completely unknown in the US yet still enjoy enormous amounts of fame and praise elsewhere? That list could grow to be very, very long so I'm just gonna let you realize on your own the planet is bigger than the states.

Also, I think this is relevant to the thread:


#81



makare

Calleja said:
For you.

The rest of the world has no problem listening to stuff the US has never heard of. We have popularity charts of our own and everything. Wow, can you imagine that?
Click to expand...
Quit being obnoxious. I know that the rest of the world has their own pop culture and interests stop acting like I don't. But I stand by the Beatles popularity being a product of the American 1960's Baby Boomer obsession.


#82



Kitty Sinatra

You'd know who Celine Dion is if she wasn't famous in the States?


#83

Calleja

Calleja

makare1;323180][QUOTE=Calleja said:
For you.

The rest of the world has no problem listening to stuff the US has never heard of. We have popularity charts of our own and everything. Wow, can you imagine that?
Click to expand...
Quit being obnoxious. I know that the rest of the world has their own pop culture and interests stop acting like I don't. But I stand by the Beatles popularity being a product of the American 1960's Baby Boomer obsession.[/QUOTE]

Your theory can be easily disproved with time. We'll talk when the baby boomers are gone.


#84

Silver Jelly

Silver Jelly

Gruebeard said:
You'd know who Celine Dion is if she wasn't famous in the States?
Click to expand...
Being famous in the US generally means being known worldwide.
Not being known in the US means not being known in the US.


#85



Kitty Sinatra

Amorous Eyes said:
*thinks Gruebeard is "super rad"*
Click to expand...
dawwwww :blush:


#86

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

You know what this thread needs?

MORE BRUCE!



#87



Kitty Sinatra

We breed Bruces that can burn your cock with a rocket launcher!



#88

Allen who is Quiet

Allen, who is Quiet

More Bruce? I can dig it.



#89

Krisken

Krisken

Of the 4 Beatles, yeah, Lennon and McCartney were a great team, mostly because they were working so hard to impress the other one (though it rarely worked). It had great effect but when the Beatles split neither one of them were as good as they were together. The only Beatle to come out of the band with surprising potential and skill was George Harrison. He spent so many years in the shadow of the other two (despite being a fantastic guitar player) that no one expected his solo album to be so good.

Lennon/McCartney were two sides of the same coin. Harrison was a fucking dollar bill.


#90

Calleja

Calleja

I'm a Lennon/McCartney man myself... but I can't argue with a Harrison man. I can't. That fucker was one awesome hippie.

Now, a Ringo man I'd argue with.


#91

Cajungal

Cajungal

I just have 2 things to say about the Beatles:

1. I love them.

2. I have never ever cared for the song "Yesterday" or understood why it's such a big hit.


#92

Allen who is Quiet

Allen, who is Quiet

Calleja said:
Now, a Ringo man I'd argue with.
Click to expand...
If I were a Ringo guy, I'd like our argument to be under the sea.


#93

Chippy

Chippy

Yeah, George Harrison's always been my favorite. Love his solo stuff.


#94



JCM

Chippy said:
Yeah, George Harrison's always been my favorite. Love his solo stuff.
Click to expand...
Same here.


#95

strawman

strawman

What, no love for Davy Jones or Peter Tork?


#96



Chazwozel

This thread has gone the way of:



#97

Chippy

Chippy

That is the best thing I've seen all day.


#98

ElJuski

ElJuski

I'm totally with makare on this one. America had rock, the Beatles came over, the Beatles became the next step in rock. Babyboomers continued to push that shit worldwide.

This is also why Led Zep shirts are sold at department stores. Besides, you know, Led Zep being pretty neat.


#99

Calleja

Calleja

Again, Juski, the "baby boomer" generation is an entirely American phenomenon... there are no Baby Boomers "worldwide". I will not deny the obvious influence American pop culture has in the world.... but that doesn't mean that EVERY thing the American people gobble up will become famous worldwide nor that everything that is famous worldwide started first in the US.

There is no Led Zep stuff in any store I've ever been to in Mexico, sadly. :(


#100



JCM

ElJuski said:
I'm totally with makare on this one. America had rock, the Beatles came over, the Beatles became the next step in rock. Babyboomers continued to push that shit worldwide.
Click to expand...
:wtf:

USA (and Britain) =/= the world.


#101

Calleja

Calleja

JCM, tell them how big RBD is (or was). Tee hee.


#102



JCM

%^%$# mexican soap opera teen rockers %^$#@ got bigger than Led Zep ever did.
Can you believe they played at Brasilia rock festivals?


#103

Calleja

Calleja

Dude, they sold out one of the biggest stadiums in the world, El Estadio Azteca, something like 16 times. Not even U2 did that.

But I'm sure that's all thanks to the fame they had in the US, right? :lol:


#104

Calleja

Calleja

Here, let Julio and I share the torture of the last couple of years:



#105

Calleja

Calleja

Sigh.. this other video () has over 9million views. Fuck me while running.

I hate RBD.


#106

Calleja

Calleja

Amorous Eyes;323959][QUOTE=Calleja said:
Dude, they sold out one of the biggest stadiums in the world, El Estadio Azteca, something like 16 times. Not even U2 did that.

But I'm sure that's all thanks to the fame they had in the US, right? :lol:
Click to expand...
If the majority of their songs is not in English, it would rarely ever be big in the US.
(There are exceptions, of course, there always are - doesn't that prove the rule, though?)
Anyone here heard any good Dutch bands lately? They exist, but you haven't heard of 'm.
Seen any good Bollywood movies lately? It's a multi-multi-million dollar industry, bigger than Hollywood.
How many movies have you seen? I'm sure Julio has seen quite a few, though, if I recall correctly.[/QUOTE]

...yeah. That's exactly my point. something doesn't HAVE to be big in the US for it to be known by millions and millions of people worldwide.


#107

Silver Jelly

Silver Jelly

I freaking hate RBD, but it was a very big success in spain too.


#108

ElJuski

ElJuski

Calleja;323962][QUOTE=Amorous Eyes;323959][QUOTE=Calleja said:
Dude, they sold out one of the biggest stadiums in the world, El Estadio Azteca, something like 16 times. Not even U2 did that.

But I'm sure that's all thanks to the fame they had in the US, right? :lol:
Click to expand...
If the majority of their songs is not in English, it would rarely ever be big in the US.
(There are exceptions, of course, there always are - doesn't that prove the rule, though?)
Anyone here heard any good Dutch bands lately? They exist, but you haven't heard of 'm.
Seen any good Bollywood movies lately? It's a multi-multi-million dollar industry, bigger than Hollywood.
How many movies have you seen? I'm sure Julio has seen quite a few, though, if I recall correctly.[/QUOTE]

...yeah. That's exactly my point. something doesn't HAVE to be big in the US for it to be known by millions and millions of people worldwide.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying that other countries don't have their own artistic merits. But US pop culture is pretty homogenized, and therefore, more likely to be seen world over. This is, in part, to the baby boomer generation being one of the biggest pushers of American pop culture consumerism.

It doesn't mean that THE ONLY FUCKING THING IN THE WORLD IS AMERICAN SHIT AND GIT DAMN ITS BETTER THAN THAT FOREIGN SHIT. But, really, how much more American-made pop culture do you see and are you fed on a daily basis, versus any of the other countries in the world (barring your own, or those immediately near you)?

I bet you more people worldwide know who Miley Cyrus is than any huge Asian pop star. Or any latin American pop star. Fuck, that doesn't mean that Miley Cyrus is GOOD, or BETTER. But one of America's biggest comodities to the world is pop culture.


#109



makare

Calleja;323962][QUOTE=Amorous Eyes;323959][QUOTE=Calleja said:
Dude, they sold out one of the biggest stadiums in the world, El Estadio Azteca, something like 16 times. Not even U2 did that.

But I'm sure that's all thanks to the fame they had in the US, right? :lol:
Click to expand...
If the majority of their songs is not in English, it would rarely ever be big in the US.
(There are exceptions, of course, there always are - doesn't that prove the rule, though?)
Anyone here heard any good Dutch bands lately? They exist, but you haven't heard of 'm.
Seen any good Bollywood movies lately? It's a multi-multi-million dollar industry, bigger than Hollywood.
How many movies have you seen? I'm sure Julio has seen quite a few, though, if I recall correctly.[/QUOTE]

...yeah. That's exactly my point. something doesn't HAVE to be big in the US for it to be known by millions and millions of people worldwide.[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that that group you mentioned is as popular and enduring as the Beatles? Unless you are saying that, you are not talking about anything really relevant to this discussion.


#110



Chazwozel

The Beatles suck.


#111



Kitty Sinatra

Chazwozel said:
The Beatles suck.
Click to expand...
I'm surprised I haven't tagged the thread with that yet.


#112

ElJuski

ElJuski

Ame, I don't know what you're arguing or what you're thinking you are arguing to me about. Disney is an American pop culture fabrication. So, uh, case in point.


#113

ElJuski

ElJuski

And that's great for them. Now keep going. I bet the numbers won't equal out, country by country, LET ALONE USA vs. International.

This isn't necessarily a good thing at all, again, I remind you, dear readers.


#114

ElJuski

ElJuski

Okay, so...that still proves my point. Doesn't matter the reason. The US is a powerhouse when it comes to producing pop culture. This includes the widespread appreciation of the Beatles, thanks, in part, to the baby boomers who helped make the American production of popculture so massive.


#115



The Key of J

Amorous Eyes said:
Not to mention the fact that all teenage Disney stars are triple threats; they can sing, dance, and act.
Click to expand...
More like can't. I thought the Disney Channel was where good actors went to die.


#116

ElJuski

ElJuski

Amorous Eyes said:
"MOON PEOPLE!".. no wait.. "BABY BOOMERS!"

KABOOSH!
Click to expand...
??

Uhm, anyway...The baby boomers came of age around the same time as the rock n' roll explosion, which is around where modern American pop-culture production really went into high gear.

But obviously we're not arguing or discussing or anything. Just random posts. Apparently mockingly, or you know, something, because there is an international butthurt button when you talk America's influence on pop culture.


#117

ElJuski

ElJuski

If it wasn't implicit beforehand, I'll say it again: The United States is not the only thing in the known universe that has been known to create pop culture.

What I am saying is that usually pop culture which is produced in the United States finds itself doubly on an international front, regardless of region; there are other countries and cultures which contribute to a global pop culture spectrum. But the United States is a fucking juggernaut in the pop culture spectrum. So if something is big here, it's not surprising that the rest of the world is hearing about it.

So, yes, I never disagreed that the United States isn't the sole proprieter of these popcultural goods. And, no, I never disagreed that other countries don't have a similar effect on American pop culture as America does to other countries.


#118

ElJuski

ElJuski

I'm not saying if it's good OR bad; it just is. There's plenty of awesome things that have come from overseas that have made an important splash here that's worth the while. America is just built on consumerism; our main export is product, which is inherently tied into pop culture. It's not a good or bad thing that we have relatively more widespread export of our goods. It's just a product of culture and climate.


#119



Kitty Sinatra

ElJuski said:
There's plenty of awesome things that have come from overseas that have made an important splash here that's worth the while.
Click to expand...
Like Celine Dion and the Barenaked Ladies. (which is the Vegas show I'd want to see) :)

Although Canada's not actually over a sea.


#120

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Amorous Eyes said:
I love pop culture. heh

"Coca-Cola, Wonderbra"
Click to expand...
Sometimes war!


#121



Chazwozel

Fuck yeah, America!



#122



JCM

Frankie;324317][QUOTE=Amorous Eyes said:
I love pop culture. heh

"Coca-Cola, Wonderbra"
Click to expand...
Sometimes war![/QUOTE]We all live in Amerikaaaaaaaa


#123



JCM

Amorous Eyes;324291][QUOTE=ElJuski said:
because there is an international butthurt button when you talk America's influence on pop culture.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone would deny America's influence on pop culture.
"Nach Afrika kommt Santa Claus / und vor Paris steht Micky Maus"

What I do think is that you're overstating that influence just a tad.

Or, maybe better said, the US is not the only big influence on pop culture.
But that may be more apparent if you don't live inside the US.[/QUOTE]Bingo.

It seems the other way around, the odd untraveled guy getting a butthurt because he must acknowledge there is a world out there with different tastes.

Ironically, the Beatles arent even American, so I really dont get what the fuck ElJuski is trying to say about America's influence in a Beatles' thread, so lets get back to bad Beatles covers-



#124

Calleja

Calleja

Juski, there are also HUGE things in America that are completely unknown to the average citizen of the rest of the world. Oprah, for instance, could walk down Mexico City (perhaps the most american culture-soaked country, besides Canada) and people wouldn't even notice. Well, maybe she'd turn heads cause she's black and it's very rare to see black people down here, but that's besides the point.

I digress.

A great example of a worldwide phenomenon that needs not the acceptance of America.. football. The real football, what you call soccer. It's still the most played and followed sport worldwide, creating huge mega super stars that make trillions of dollars a year... and the average American couldn't even tell you what an offside means (or give you the definition ofr American football... which is another example of something HUGE in America that the rest of the world goes "meh" over).

Yes, American pop culture has INFLUENCE worldwide, but not as much as you guys seem to think. And notice how it's only non-Americans that are telling you, cause we're outside the US and we can actually see beyond its borders. You need to broaden your view of the world a tad, people. The baby boomers did not give The Beatles the lasting staying pop icon power they have IN THE REST OF THE WORLD, it may be true inside the US borders but it's certainly not true elsewhere. My city has a population of less than a million and there's still an annual Beatles Celebration day... and Querétaro is well outside the reach of the Baby Boomers. Which, I repeat once more, is solely an american phenomenon.


#125

Chippy

Chippy

Amorous Eyes;324291][QUOTE=ElJuski said:
because there is an international butthurt button when you talk America's influence on pop culture.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone would deny America's influence on pop culture.
"Nach Afrika kommt Santa Claus / und vor Paris steht Micky Maus"

What I do think is that you're overstating that influence just a tad.

Or, maybe better said, the US is not the only big influence on pop culture.
But that may be more apparent if you don't live inside the US.[/QUOTE]

Well said.

Also, I like soccer/football. Liverpool!


#126

ElJuski

ElJuski

You guys aren't getting the point, and are seemingly stuck on some "I don't get it because I'm an American" tirade.

Therefore, international friends, make me a list of things that are considered internationally known pop culture items which are not American pop-culturally produced. You started with football, now continue. Impress me.

And, since apparently even pop culture icons like "Oprah Winfrey" don't count, it has to be big enough and international enough. The same standards apply, boyos.

And, since the biggest thing everyone is gonna throw against me is "Well you're American so you wouldn't understand", international friends, please be honest about your selections and please honestly tell other people their ideas aren't.

And also, once again, I'm not saying that producing the most entertainment is exactly a merit badge, nor am I saying that all other international stuff is without merit.


#127

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

I used to tell people a while back that I helped my brother photograph the most popular rockband in the world, Junoon. A Pakistani band that is very popular in India. That is getting near a Billion Fans...


#128

ElJuski

ElJuski

I really want to figure out a way to legitimately try and make a list that people on the internet can take. It would have to be a list of various pop culture things from all around the world, and people would fill out a survey and mark which of those items they know about. I think that would be the best way to objectively try and see what people around the world know. And how much of what they know comes from where.

You laugh........but that's 8 things. Keep going.


#129

ElJuski

ElJuski

Haha, that is a mess of different arguments and demands right there. Don't get so worked up and personally invested. No need to sound like you're backed into a corner here; obviously you're agreeing that the US popculture machine is a fact.

If we all agree that the US is a sheer brutre force in creating pop culture that goes across the world--as I thought we did--then there's nothing to argue. I was just proving that point...which, unless my comprehension is WAY off, is what Calleja was still nagging on about. America takes up a huge portion of the worldwide pop culture pie.


#130

Calleja

Calleja

RBD
Luis Miguel
Juan Gabriel
Maná
Caifanes
Soda Stereo
Los Fabulosos Cadillacs
Fobia
Gustavo Cerati
Bunbury
Heroes del Silencio
Silvio Rodriguez
Carlos Santana
Lucero
Miguel Bosé
Tatiana
Alejandra Guzmán


And those are all just off the top of my head, I didn't pause to think between any of those. Those are all internationally successful artists, mostly musicians, that fill stadiums and whatnot all over Latin America, Europe, the Caribbean and in some instances even Asia. I went to a Caribbean island, which is actually a protectorate of the Netherlands, called Curacao and when the locals found out I was mexican they began singing back to me Maná (a Mexican "rock" group I loathe).

Losing proposition, Joosk, asking for a list... every single international poster in the forum could make a list of famous pop icons that the US has never heard about.


#131

Calleja

Calleja

He thinks that without the US the world would have like 5 famous people. (yes, I'm being hyperbolic)


#132

@Li3n

@Li3n

all i got is this:



#133

ElJuski

ElJuski

Calleja said:
He thinks that without the US the world would have like 5 famous people. (yes, I'm being hyperbolic)
Click to expand...
...No, dude. Not at all. I never said that. I continually reminded you guys I wasn't saying that. Ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. All I said, and continue to say, is relatively, one of America's hugest exports is pop culture. And it gets pushed around the world. It doesn't belittle any other country in any other way, nor does it say that you guys will never have any celebrities or pop culture worth knowing. In FACT, I envy the sort of non-homogenous pop culture non-Americans get from a variety of different influences.

My god, you guys are SO butthurt over this.


#134

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Remember to discount anyone famous for playing Rock-n-Roll. An American Institution ripped from the Blues.


#135

Calleja

Calleja

I'm not butt hurt at all!

We've stated and agreed that the Baby Boomers are an American-only phenomena, we also have, now, agreed that the world doesn't need the US to have pop icons.

Ergo... why are you still arguing that The Beatles are what they are worldwide thanks to the american-only baby boomers? That's the jist of it. We can say that they (Beatles) are what they IN the US thanks to the baby boomers, fair enough.... but not worldwide. That's what both you and makare were arguing.

sixpackshaker said:
Remember to discount anyone famous for playing Rock-n-Roll. An American Institution ripped from the Blues.
Click to expand...
Well, if we're going to go to the roots of stuff then I'll say right now that M&Ms and Snickers and EVERYTHING chocolatey is Mexican, cause this is were cacao came from.

No, no, scratch that. Everything is African, cause that's where the Human Race comes from. There, settled.


#136

General Specific

General Specific

Actually, everything is from Space because that's where all the dust that clumped togetherto create the Earth came from.

We're all Space-People listening to our Space-Music. :D


#137

Calleja

Calleja

....you know, come to think of it, 99% of the world's problems would be solved overnight if people actually thought like that, that we're all really, in the end, the same clump of space-stuff


#138

Calleja

Calleja

Ahhh.. Sagan. My favorite pothead. He left us too soon.


#139

sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Calleja said:
I'm not butt hurt at all!

We've stated and agreed that the Baby Boomers are an American-only phenomena, we also have, now, agreed that the world doesn't need the US to have pop icons.

Ergo... why are you still arguing that The Beatles are what they are worldwide thanks to the american-only baby boomers? That's the jist of it. We can say that they (Beatles) are what they IN the US thanks to the baby boomers, fair enough.... but not worldwide. That's what both you and makare were arguing.

sixpackshaker said:
Remember to discount anyone famous for playing Rock-n-Roll. An American Institution ripped from the Blues.
Click to expand...
Well, if we're going to go to the roots of stuff then I'll say right now that M&Ms and Snickers and EVERYTHING chocolatey is Mexican, cause this is were cacao came from.

No, no, scratch that. Everything is African, cause that's where the Human Race comes from. There, settled.
Click to expand...
The Beatles even took their name and part of their early sound from Buddy Holly. That is Global Influence.

The next step on my influence is Blues was Ripped from field chants, that came from the Share Cropper/Slave culture that was Ripped from Africa.


#140

Calleja

Calleja

Yes, sixpack, we're all well-aware that if you distill stuff you'll get roots from all over. The Italians took the Chinese's noodles and America's (the continent) tomatoes and made pasta. Does that mean we shouldn't call pasta italian?


#141



Kitty Sinatra

I just want to listen to some Kidzbop Beatles :(


#142

Frank

Frankie Williamson

Amorous Eyes;324707][QUOTE=Calleja said:
He thinks that without the US the world would have like 5 famous people. (yes, I'm being hyperbolic)
Click to expand...
Heh. At any given point in time our national top40 music chart consists of 50% non-American based artists. Half of those don't even sing in English and will never ever be heard in the US. They are still big artists nonetheless.[/QUOTE]

This doesn't exactly help your case.


#143



makare

To make a valid point the list has to have enduring bands that are as world-wide culturally ingrained as the Beatles and they cannot have been popular in the US.


#144

Silver Jelly

Silver Jelly

Silver Jelly said:
Being famous in the US generally means being known worldwide.
Not being known in the US means not being known in the US.
Click to expand...
May I quote myself?


#145



Kitty Sinatra

Oh, and I'd just like to say that I did not tag this thread with The Beatles Suck. However, I'm glad it's been done because it removes the temptation.


Also: The Celine tag is mine. She is the wind beneath my wings.


#146

Silver Jelly

Silver Jelly

Amorous Eyes said:
Silver Jelly said:
Being famous in the US generally means being known worldwide.
Not being known in the US means not being known in the US.
Click to expand...
Confused by the last line.. lol

Not being known in <x> means not being known in <x>.
Well, duh? x = x
You said the same thing twice.
Click to expand...
That's exactly my point:
Being known in the US means probably being famous worldwide.
Not being known in the US means nothing worldwide, just that you aren't known in the US.


#147



makare

My argument is that the Beatles were only as long lasting and culturally ingrained as they were because they were popular not only in the US but during the Ed Sullivan/Baby Boom generation. It doesn't matter that they were not a band originally from the US. The US is what drove them to the pop culture heights they reached.

For this discussion, I don't care about the popularity of other bands around the world unless they are comparable to the Beatles, and have not had any influence from the US. If they are not those two things then they are irrelevant to my argument.


#148



makare

Abba was very popular in the US though and may still be for all I know.


#149



makare

I guess Abba could work. They are at about the same level as The Beatles, pop bands that made it huge.

I would rather have something that was not popular in the US at all but still popular elsewhere.


#150



Chazwozel

makare1 said:
I guess Abba could work. They are at about the same level as The Beatles, pop bands that made it huge.

I would rather have something that was not popular in the US at all but still popular elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Abba sucks as well. Nicely done!


#151

strawman

strawman

You all amuse me greatly.

Signed,
One butthurt untraveled American (sorry to be redundant...)

*Note: The butthurt may or may not be related to a recent bout of diarrhea.


#152

ElJuski

ElJuski

Not to be a prick, Ame, but house music started in Chicago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_music

Now, with what you guys DID with it...


as for the Beatles...the Beatles came here, got super huge, and then went back and took over the pop culture world. If it wasn't for the baby boomers, I'm not sure--though yeah, kinda hypothetical--that it would be so internationally ingrained into the world's pop conscious.

Though that's skeptical, I concede.


#153

Calleja

Calleja

Is U2 as big as it is thanks to the Baby Boomers too?


#154

filmfanatic

filmfanatic

This thread needs more...

SCARLETT!!!



#155

Calleja

Calleja

Oh my god, she's so gorgeous I can even stand her singing. That's what love is all about, I guess :wub:


#156

General Specific

General Specific

Amorous Eyes;324731][QUOTE=General Specific said:
Actually, everything is from Space because that's where all the dust that clumped togetherto create the Earth came from.

Calleja said:
....you know, come to think of it, 99% of the world's problems would be solved overnight if people actually thought like that, that we're all really, in the end, the same clump of space-stuff
Click to expand...
"The cosmos is also within us, we're made of star stuff. And we are a way, for the cosmos, to know itself." - Carl Sagan.
Click to expand...



#157

@Li3n

@Li3n

Amorous Eyes said:
"blaizah blaizah! dragostea din tea!"

I wanted to hate that song.. I really wanted to.... but I couldn't help myself. I love it. <3
Click to expand...
And we can't be friends any more...


#158

@Li3n

@Li3n

Amorous Eyes;324977][QUOTE=@Li3n;324976][QUOTE=Amorous Eyes said:
"blaizah blaizah! dragostea din tea!"

I wanted to hate that song.. I really wanted to.... but I couldn't help myself. I love it. <3
Click to expand...
And we can't be friends any more...[/QUOTE]

I was always more into Shredder anyway.[/QUOTE]

Well good luck, that guy is way too obsessed with turtles for anyone else to have a chance.


#159

Calleja

Calleja

General Specific;324973][QUOTE=Amorous Eyes;324731][QUOTE=General Specific said:
Actually, everything is from Space because that's where all the dust that clumped togetherto create the Earth came from.

Calleja said:
....you know, come to think of it, 99% of the world's problems would be solved overnight if people actually thought like that, that we're all really, in the end, the same clump of space-stuff
Click to expand...
"The cosmos is also within us, we're made of star stuff. And we are a way, for the cosmos, to know itself." - Carl Sagan.
Click to expand...
*moby*[/QUOTE]

I see your moby and raise you the actual Sagan (and some others):


#160



JCM

Amorous Eyes;324676][QUOTE=ElJuski said:
You guys aren't getting the point, and are seemingly stuck on some "I don't get it because I'm an American" tirade.

Therefore, international friends, make me a list of things that are considered internationally known pop culture items which are not American pop-culturally produced. You started with football, now continue. Impress me.

And, since apparently even pop culture icons like "Oprah Winfrey" don't count, it has to be big enough and international enough. The same standards apply, boyos.

And, since the biggest thing everyone is gonna throw against me is "Well you're American so you wouldn't understand", international friends, please be honest about your selections and please honestly tell other people their ideas aren't.

And also, once again, I'm not saying that producing the most entertainment is exactly a merit badge, nor am I saying that all other international stuff is without merit.
Click to expand...
"make me a list" lol


The Beatles ? (lol)

The Rolling Stones ?

David Bowie ? (He's even afraid of Americans.)

Rammstein ?

Pink Floyd ?

Bee Gees ?

ABBA ?

or.. how about:

Andrew Lloyd Webber ! lol[/QUOTE]lol [2]
.












Amorous Eyes;324807][QUOTE=makare1 said:
I guess Abba could work. They are at about the same level as The Beatles, pop bands that made it huge.

I would rather have something that was not popular in the US at all but still popular elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Pick any major Bollywood artist, and you got an artist that has billions of followers and is not known in the US but in many other countries. I just suck at naming them.

That reminds me I still need to watch Om Shanti Om. I might do that over dinner, actually.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this. The east has its own cinema, heck, billions more watch Chinese/Hindi/Japanese movies than English movies. And at cheaper ticket prices, to boot.


#161

ElJuski

ElJuski

That's a lot of UK you got there, I thought you said US/UK does NOT equal the world? :p

But seriously, the point wasn't to say that you COULDN'T find pop culture that is homogenous worldwide which started from other countries, but that the United States is the largest manufacturer of pop culture which gets worldwide homogeny.

And no, U2 is not as big as it is because of the baby boomers. You're a generation too late there, champ. I don't even know what your point even is, except to say, yes, hey, add U2 to the list. I am aware of this.

But I want to go back to the baby boomer / Beatles argument for a moment here. Let's say the Beatles never came to America. I suppose they still would have become the same sensation without one of America's biggest generation burst of consumer consumption and production. Yep, totally would have been the same thing. Completely. They didn't need the Ed Sullivan show! The Beatles would have figured out how to get huge record sales elsewhere. Third world countries would have eventually lapped it up and pressed the records themselves. America and its consumer culture had absolutely nothing to do with it.

What would have happened to the Beatles, I wonder, if the British Invasion never happened in the US?


#162



makare

Sigh, it needs to be a list of stuff that is NOT FAMOUS IN THE US.


Why is that so difficult.....


#163



JCM

Amorous Eyes;324700][QUOTE=ElJuski said:
Don't get so worked up and personally invested.
Click to expand...
?

I think you're projecting.

How on earth would I be personally invested?
To me (and I'm sure most who are reading this thread) it is you who seem to get all worked up over this.



Calleja said:
every single international poster in the forum could make a list of famous pop icons that the US has never heard about.
Click to expand...
Oh, was that what he wanted? Yeah I could make a huge list, but still don't see the point.[/QUOTE]Amen on that.
But it was amusing to see the "America rocks, world sucks" wonder suddenly run and support UK as well. ;)

To explain a guy who probably has never left his country the success of Kaoma, Mana, ACDC, Rammstein, Björk, Camui Gackt, Kaizers Orchestra, Apocaliptica, and et al is pretty much of a waste of time, after all, its like trying to explain someone at the Super Bowl how half of the world watches the World Cup.

But its still funny seeing ElJuski whine about how USA=all culture (or is it UK now?) when right now on tv they are showing clips from the Police show here with Sting making homage to the great bossa nova composer, Tom Jobim (who is even receives homages from every other american band, president and even has two characters named after him by Blizzard in WOW).

Not that I expect him to even know what Bossa nova, Lambada, Samba are, maybe to him they are the last winners of Paris Hilton's "Be my BFF" reality show.


#164



makare

JCM you are the one who added the UK. ElJuski is just trying to make his point with people who are constantly changing the rules and failing to answer questions as asked.


#165



JCM

Err, rules?
We're not even listening to him, after all having someone whine about america = all the world's culture in a thread where we're discussing British bands is simply hilarious.

Thank god they were British though, otherwise they'd be screwed into contracts to make the same shit to the level of overdose or suicide like Elvis and Hendrix were.
Calleja said:
He thinks that without the US the world would have like 5 famous people. (yes, I'm being hyperbolic)
Click to expand...
Yeah, fuck Akira Korusawa and every other movie director copying him, Beatles and every other band copying their 4-man style and of course Asian and Indians dont watch their own movies.

What Juski sees on American tv/hears on american radio = what the whole world sees on TV/listensto on radio. I think the thread is about over, really.


#166

ElJuski

ElJuski

Hahaha, gotta love people with poor reading comprehension...


#167



makare

Yay just in time for the What the fuck is JCM even talking about now show


I love this show.


#168



JCM

Referring to yourself in the third person again El Juski?


#169

Frank

Frankie Williamson

JCM said:
Referring to yourself in the third person again El Juski?
Click to expand...
Weak.


#170

ElJuski

ElJuski

makare1 said:
Yay just in time for the What the fuck is JCM even talking about now show


I love this show.
Click to expand...
As soon as JCM gets in on his WARGLEBARGLEBARGLEBARGLE, it's just a matter of sitting back and enjoying. And every once in a while saying something to throw him into another shitfit.

For instance,

America is in fact the only culture that matters. We gave you trogdolytes jeans and rock n roll. SUCK IT


#171



JCM

Weak as you running away from replying Ama's post and running between Juski's usual ad-himineming all international users and uneducated shit?

Pathetically I could take any movie/music industry, toss off a few name name, like Japanese directors-
Akira Kurosawa
Takashi Miike
Yasujiro Ozu
Hiroshi Teshigahar
Isao Takahata

They have been copied, had americanized versions of their stuff remade, angles and stories copied but people at your level of education, language and travel wouldnt know anything about it.

Maybe thats why ElJuski and you, after getting to the level of insulting all international users are now trying to bring this to a flame war, to avoid the fact that even if we spent all day telling you about the world, you wont know shit.

Requesting a mod lock, as I dont have time for this shit.


#172



JCM

ElJuski said:
[America is in fact the only culture that matters. We gave you trogdolytes jeans and rock n roll. SUCK IT
Click to expand...
Pity you had the British sell it to you, and the Chinese lend you money so that your industry could survive to buy it from them.


#173



makare

No one has said anything against international users.

You are the one making the thread intolerable. How about you just leave and we can go back to having a discussion. Ame was actually making valid points whereas you are just being an ass.

This thread is fine.. it is you that is the problem.


#174

Frank

Frankie Williamson

ElJuski;325175][QUOTE=makare1 said:
Yay just in time for the What the fuck is JCM even talking about now show


I love this show.
Click to expand...
As soon as JCM gets in on his WARGLEBARGLEBARGLEBARGLE, it's just a matter of sitting back and enjoying. And every once in a while saying something to throw him into another shitfit.

For instance,

America is in fact the only culture that matters. We gave you trogdolytes jeans and rock n roll. SUCK IT[/QUOTE]

I'm not even American...


#175

Frank

Frankie Williamson

JCM said:
Weak as you running away from replying Ama's post and running between Juski's usual ad-himineming all international users and uneducated shit?
Click to expand...
What?


#176



JCM

Frankie - Not talking to you mate, just laughing of Juski and Makare. My apologies if you thought it was directed at you.

Makare - Guess whining about international butthurt because you two didnt move far enough from the basement to see that billions dont listen/watch/wear your stuff (which isnt even your culture, but borrowed mostly from Britain) inst an ad-hominem in Britneylandia?

Again-
Weak as you running away from replying Ama's post and running between Juski's usual ad-himineming all international users and uneducated shit?

Pathetically I could take any movie/music industry, toss off a few name name, like Japanese directors-
Akira Kurosawa
Takashi Miike
Yasujiro Ozu
Hiroshi Teshigahar
Isao Takahata

They have been copied, had americanized versions of their stuff remade, angles and stories copied but people at your level of education, language and travel wouldnt know anything about it.

Maybe thats why ElJuski and you, after getting to the level of insulting all international users are now trying to bring this to a flame war, to avoid the fact that even if we spent all day telling you about the world, you wont know shit.

Requesting a mod lock, as I dont have time for this shit.
Click to expand...
I could repeat it in a few other langauges, but seeing you cant even make it beyond English, its as they said before, a waste of time.


#177

@Li3n

@Li3n

ElJuski said:
I bet you more people worldwide know who Miley Cyrus is than any huge Asian pop star.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't bet on that, after all there are more chinese then the rest of us.

But US pop culture is pretty homogenized, and therefore, more likely to be seen world over.
Click to expand...
I think it has more to do with the US actually promoting it world wide, and having more experience at it.


[STRIKE]
But this discussion is getting stupid... everyone take a chill pill or something, neither JCM nor Gas are posting here, stop trying to make it seem they are.[/STRIKE]



EDIT: Dammit JCM, now you've ruined my last argument.


#178

Frank

Frankie Williamson

@Li3n said:
neither JCM nor Gas are posting here, stop trying to make it seem they are.
Click to expand...
.........What?

JCM said:
Frankie - Not talking to you mate, just laughing of Juski and Makare. My apologies if you thought it was directed at you.
Click to expand...
And confusion explained. It just seemed to me you were after my weak comment.

There's an addon this forum needs. That one from the old one that combined people's posts when they post directly after themselves.


#179



JCM

@Li3n;325194][QUOTE=ElJuski;324070][QUOTE=Calleja said:
I bet you more people worldwide know who Miley Cyrus is than any huge Asian pop star.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't bet on that, after all there are more chinese then the rest of us.

But US pop culture is pretty homogenized, and therefore, more likely to be seen world over.
Click to expand...
I think it has more to do with the US actually promoting it world wide, and having more experience at it. [/QUOTE]Pretty much this.

And my apologies Li@n, but after ElJuski's writing off Calleja's and Ama's posts as "international butthurt" because he doesnt know billion of people and Asians know Andy Lau and dont know Hannah Montana I had to enter.


#180



makare

JCM said:
Frankie - Not talking to you mate, just laughing of Juski and Makare. My apologies if you thought it was directed at you.

Makare - Guess whining about international butthurt because you two didnt move far enough from the basement to see that billions dont listen/watch/wear your stuff (which isnt even your culture, but borrowed mostly from Britain) inst an ad-hominem in Britneylandia?
Click to expand...
That's right it's not an " inst an ad-hominem in Britneylandia". You can claim whatever you want but you have still not shown any evidence that the Beatles would have been as big without the US. And you haven't because they wouldnt have been and everyone knows it.

So you can segue and bitch and moan all you want. But in the end you did not prove any kind of point except that you are a whiner and are too in love with your go to insult "dur you guys havent traveled as much as *I* have so you are all ignorant and stupid and nyah nyah nyah"

Which no one takes seriously.


#181

@Li3n

@Li3n

Frankie;325195][QUOTE=@Li3n said:
neither JCM nor Gas are posting here, stop trying to make it seem they are.
Click to expand...
.........What?
[/QUOTE]

Arghhh... for some reason when i click on some threads i get taken to the middle pages instead of the last ones... damn annoying.


That's right it's not an " inst an ad-hominem in Britneylandia". You can claim whatever you want but you have still not shown any evidence that the Beatles would have been as big without the US.
Click to expand...
Just you wait until he gets that Sliders remote working, then he'll be proving all kinds of shit.

Meh, you does one prove a band would have sold as much without selling in one of their bigger markets?!


#182



JCM

makare1;325200][QUOTE=JCM said:
Frankie - Not talking to you mate, just laughing of Juski and Makare. My apologies if you thought it was directed at you.

Makare - Guess whining about international butthurt because you two didnt move far enough from the basement to see that billions dont listen/watch/wear your stuff (which isnt even your culture, but borrowed mostly from Britain) inst an ad-hominem in Britneylandia?
Click to expand...
That's right it's not an " inst an ad-hominem in Britneylandia". You can claim whatever you want but you have still not shown any evidence that the USA made the Beatles, who already sold millions throught the world BEFORE coming to america. You cant because Im too busy ad-homening.

So you can segue and bitch and moan all you want. But in the end you did not prove any kind of point except that you are a whiner and are too in love with your go to insult "USA rocks and everyone listens to Hannah Montana *duh*
Which no one takes seriously.[/QUOTE]Corrected that for you, again-

Weak as running away from replying Ama's post and running between Juski's usual ad-himineming all international users and uneducated shit?

Pathetically I could take any movie/music industry, toss off a few name name, like Japanese directors-
Akira Kurosawa
Takashi Miike
Yasujiro Ozu
Hiroshi Teshigahar
Isao Takahata

They have been copied, had americanized versions of their stuff remade, angles and stories copied but people at your level of education, language and travel wouldnt know anything about it.

Maybe thats why ElJuski and you, after getting to the level of insulting all international users are now trying to bring this to a flame war, to avoid the fact that even if we spent all day telling you about the world, you wont know shit.

I could repeat it in a few other langauges, but seeing you cant even make it beyond English, its as they said before, a waste of time.
Click to expand...
Requesting again a mod lock, as I dont have time for this shit.


#183



makare

Ame is the one who was talking about Hannah Montana being popular.


You aren't even trying to be accurate.


Just get out then if you dont want to be here!

The thread does not need to be locked just because you have no self control


GTFO!


#184

Espy

Espy

Ok, so wait. Is America ad-hominimaning everyone and not traveling and getting laid or did I just go to when can I what are who saying butthurt?


JCM said:
Requesting again a mod lock, as I dont have time for this shit.
Click to expand...
OH HELL NO. You came in here and raised the decibel level way up so YOU can clean up your mess. Plus, what else would I do for my afternoon entertainment?


#185

@Li3n

@Li3n

Oh for crying out loud... ANIME... the US barely heard of it (watching some cut up version and shit) while Europe and South America where watching Candy Candy and Sandybell...

/end thread


#186



JCM

*bows* Well, I'll enjoy ElJuski some more then.
@Li3n said:
Meh, you does one prove a band would have sold as much without selling in one of their bigger markets?!
Click to expand...
Problem is, (wiki) By October 1972, the Beatles’ worldwide sales total stood at 545 million units. To date The Beatles record sales are over 1 billion units worldwide.

Now, they were popular in Brazil and every British commonwealth country before the US, but even if we managed to separate american sales, theres Itunes and Beatles Rock Band, illegal downloads, so its an arguement I wont make because I dont have the facts.

Unlike the "international butthurt" guys.


#187



makare

@Li3n said:
Oh for crying out loud... ANIME... the US barely heard of it (watching some cut up version and shit) while Europe and South America where watching Candy Candy and Sandybell...

/end thread
Click to expand...
What does that have to do with the Beatles?

Sigh.


#188



JCM

Facts Makare, instead of sniping at everyone who doesnt agree with ElJuski.
makare1;325211][QUOTE=@Li3n said:
Oh for crying out loud... ANIME... the US barely heard of it (watching some cut up version and shit) while Europe and South America where watching Candy Candy and Sandybell...

/end thread
Click to expand...
What does that have to do with the Beatles?

Sigh.[/QUOTE]More than america Fuck yeah! has to do with the Beatles-

1 billion sales all over the world until today. Fame in every commonwealth country, Britain, Europe and Latin America BEFORE going to the US. In European shows they overshadowed every American headlining band BEFORE going to the US.

Funnily, the american label (United Artists Records) that they signed onto started off as a Brazilian label, then an American label selling Brazilian and British music, even in that you cant be original. But hey, if claiming the Beatles as american will help save the failed America=world/international Butthurt.


#189



makare

If you can somehow disconnect the Beatles from the US, if you can claim that there would Beatles Rockband, Beatles Kidz Bop, the cover bands, the impersonators, the tshirts, the 20th releases of the same album, endless documentaries, exposes and biographies, and everything else- without the baby boomers.. then go ahead magic man.


#190



JCM

makare1 said:
If you can somehow disconnect the Beatles from the US, if you can claim that there would Beatles Rockband, Beatles Kidz Bop, the cover bands, the impersonators, the tshirts, the 20th releases of the same album, endless documentaries, exposes and biographies, and everything else- without the baby boomers.. then go ahead magic man.
Click to expand...
Again, opinions, no facts.

Beatlemania started BEFORE USA. Boyzone, Westlife, Spice Girls all got huge rapidly just like the Beatles.

What saved them was that they accepted British contract terms, otherwise they'd be stuck making films up to overdose like Elvis, or forced to cut back on experimentation like Hendrix to again, overdose.

USA helped, but the Beatles could have made it huge without the US, and were already huge. Now their american label was created for brazilian music, the band had millions sold BEFORE coming to the US, sold out concerts in Eurpor and hits in Latin America and Europe, and still I see an arguement for "America fuck yeah!" and calling of Calleja's and Ama's opinion as "international butthurt".

Can I get any facts from you, instead of BS? I'll even toss you a bone, it was the brazilian music label in the US that later gave them a movie for free if they would sign with them.


#191

@Li3n

@Li3n

makare1 said:
If you can somehow disconnect the Beatles from the US, if you can claim that there would Beatles Rockband, Beatles Kidz Bop, the cover bands, the impersonators, the tshirts, the 20th releases of the same album, endless documentaries, exposes and biographies, and everything else- without the baby boomers.. then go ahead magic man.
Click to expand...
So we blame all the crappy stuff on the US?! Done...

What does that have to do with the Beatles?
Click to expand...
Nothing, i was talking about the stuff that started all this...


#192



JCM

@Li3n;325226][QUOTE=makare1 said:
If you can somehow disconnect the Beatles from the US, if you can claim that there would Beatles Rockband, Beatles Kidz Bop, the cover bands, the impersonators, the tshirts, the 20th releases of the same album, endless documentaries, exposes and biographies, and everything else- without the baby boomers.. then go ahead magic man.
Click to expand...
So we blame all the crappy stuff on the US?! Done... [/QUOTE]Hey, Britain invented the boyband.

That alone is worse than any crap US has done.


#193

@Li3n

@Li3n

Britain invented the US...


#194

Chippy

Chippy

@Li3n said:
Oh for crying out loud... ANIME... the US barely heard of it (watching some cut up version and shit) while Europe and South America where watching Candy Candy and Sandybell...

/end thread
Click to expand...
While I think this helps the whole argument, I refuse to let anime win anything.

So nyeah.


#195

Krisken

Krisken

I think this thread gave me the stupids. What makes me sad is I can't even blame Kids Bop.


#196



JCM

Even Kids Bop aint that stupid.


#197

ElJuski

ElJuski

JCM, as hilarious as ever.

Once again, this list is not to prove that the rest of the world actually has pop culture unknown to the US.

DUH. Anime and Soccer would be the instant KO to that really dumb argument (no wonder many of you are still having it).

If you've been keeping up with my argument, dear readers, it is...again and again...that the US has some heavy pushing of pop culture around the world. More so than any other singular country to other countries around the world, relatively.

And yes, it's hilarious how stupid and perpetual the whole argument is. I guess I'm gonna leave this thread and concede American elitist xenophobia. FUCK THE WORLD!!!!US 0WNS THE WORLD SUCKS!!!! BUY FORD!!!!


#198



Kitty Sinatra

ElJuski said:
FUCK THE WORLD!!!!US 0WNS THE WORLD SUCKS!!!! BUY FORD!!!!
Click to expand...
Buy GM instead, please. Specifically the Chevy Equinox or GMC Terrain.


#199



Kitty Sinatra



:unibrow:


#200



JCM

ElJuski said:
I am as uneducated as ever.
*avoids posting any facts, just repeats the same stuff that was refuted 3 pages ago*
Click to expand...
Corrected that for you-

I still wait facts on "Beatles is only famous because America!". Cmon ElJuski, again, opinions, no facts.
JCM said:
Beatlemania started BEFORE USA. Boyzone, Westlife, Spice Girls all got huge rapidly just like the Beatles.

What saved them was that they accepted British contract terms, otherwise they'd be stuck making films up to overdose like Elvis, or forced to cut back on experimentation like Hendrix to again, overdose.

USA helped, but the Beatles could have made it huge without the US, and were already huge. Now their american label was created for brazilian music, the band had millions sold BEFORE coming to the US, sold out concerts in Eurpor and hits in Latin America and Europe, and still I see an arguement for "America fuck yeah!" and calling of Calleja's and Ama's opinion as "international butthurt".

Can I get any facts from you, instead of BS? I'll even toss you a bone, it was the brazilian music label in the US that later gave them a movie for free if they would sign with them.
Click to expand...


#201

@Li3n

@Li3n

Chippy;325254][QUOTE=@Li3n said:
Oh for crying out loud... ANIME... the US barely heard of it (watching some cut up version and shit) while Europe and South America where watching Candy Candy and Sandybell...

/end thread
Click to expand...
While I think this helps the whole argument, I refuse to let anime win anything.

So nyeah.[/QUOTE]

Well neither of those i listed even come close to the stuff that got anime popular in the US, so in the words of MJ "No, that's ignorant!" :p


JCM;325355][QUOTE=ElJuski said:
I am as uneducated as ever.
Click to expand...
Correcetd that for you, my redneck clown.

I still wait facts on your idiotic "Beatles is only famous because Americuh!". Cmon retard, you cant be that damn stupid, but then maybe thats why you always take to ad-hominems and ignore every post destroying your idiotic arguments.
[/QUOTE]

It's a good thing everyone knows that the best way to respond to an ad-hominem is with another...


#202



Kitty Sinatra

damn lack of hotlinking on the web :(


freenet my ass!


#203



JCM

On anime- That what sucks in some countries, it started with the crap Shounen crap, which made for a bad first impression.

Its like hearing that Crazy frog song as your first English song, it will forever taint your opinion of English songs.
JCM said:
It's a good thing everyone knows that the best way to respond to an ad-hominem is with another...
Click to expand...
Sorry about that, anyway Ive scaled back my posts to the allowed El-Juski level of "Butthurt! Pathetic! Hilarious!" vocabulary. Back on Topic-

Worst beatles crossover-


#204

Espy

Espy

JCM said:
redneck clown
retard
untraveled clown
anyway Ive scaled back my posts to the allowed El-Juski level of "Butthurt! Pathetic! Hilarious!" vocabulary.
Click to expand...
Seriously. Let's keep the thread civil. Consider that a formal warning.
Also, on a personal note, if anyone else uses the term "ad-hominem" I will throw up on you.


#205



makare

The list should be stuff as big as the Beatles that is not popular in the US.

The only thing named so far is the Bollywood stuff but that doesnt really work unless an individual artist or movie is at the level of the Beatles.

It doesn't matter how much a band/movie/genre sold it is how much of a phenomenon it is.

The problem is not being able to distinguish popular with The Beatles popular. There are probably more kids watching a morning cartoons show in China than bought the Beatle's last album but that is irrelevant.

One of the first things I said in this thread was that I know the countries around the world have their own pop culture don't act like I dont. But I guess this thread quickly dissolved into tldr.


#206



JCM

Espy- Across all the thread and users, okay. ;)

Makare-Beatles are British. I could name countless other British stuff like Spice girls, Elton John and etc.
Now in the East? Every one of those top Bollywood movies that Ame posted are musicals, and they are as big in the East as Beatles are in the West. Shah Rukh Khan is probably bigger than Elvis accross many asian countries, and billions of Chinese worship Andy Lau and the like.


#207

Cajungal

Cajungal

This thread is bigger than Jesus.


#208



JCM

Amorous Eyes said:
The Beatles aren't even on top of the list for best selling albums.

Again, I could name the biggest Bollywood star ever, but you could only take my word for it how much of a cultural icon he is on countless countries. Bigger than the Beatles (they go "who?"), but it's a still a tough thing to try and prove to someone who never heard of him!

"No really, see? He's on mugs, placemats, pens, they have action figures, etc.."
- "Big whoop, so has Dora the Explorer."
"/facepalm"
Click to expand...
Bingo.
If name dropping cultural icons worshipped by every director and musician (like Tom Jobim and Korusawa) doesnt ring a bell, imagine talking about Shah Ruk Khan or Gekt


#209

Espy

Espy

JCM said:
Espy- Across all the thread and users, okay. ;)
Click to expand...
No. That was a formal warning for you to watch the name calling. If someone else is doing similar things feel free to report the post like people did yours and I will warn them as well.


#210

Chippy

Chippy

Cajungal said:
This thread is bigger than Jesus.
Click to expand...
.


#211



makare

If there is a Bollywood star who has maintained the same level of popularity and level of cultural saturation for 40 years or so as The Beatles then yeah it would work.
It really kind of pisses me off that you guys assume that I don't know who the people you are naming are and I admit some I dont, but quite a few I do. No need to be jerks about it. I may hate traveling but I am hardly ignorant of the world.

With the Beatles it is like the microchip. The microchip was invented in the US. But if someone asked me who made the microchip matter I would say Japan. Would that be me being all Japan is the best hurrr.. no it would just be a fact.


#212

Allen who is Quiet

Allen, who is Quiet

JCM said:
otherwise they'd be stuck making films up to overdose like Elvis, or forced to cut back on experimentation like Hendrix to again, overdose.
Click to expand...
explanation for how American record labels led to overdose requested


#213



JCM

Amorous Eyes;325409][QUOTE=JCM;325407][QUOTE=Amorous Eyes said:
The Beatles aren't even on top of the list for best selling albums.

Again, I could name the biggest Bollywood star ever, but you could only take my word for it how much of a cultural icon he is on countless countries. Bigger than the Beatles (they go "who?"), but it's a still a tough thing to try and prove to someone who never heard of him!

"No really, see? He's on mugs, placemats, pens, they have action figures, etc.."
- "Big whoop, so has Dora the Explorer."
"/facepalm"
Click to expand...
Bingo.
If name dropping cultural icons worshipped by every director and musician (like Tom Jobim and Korusawa) doesnt ring a bell, imagine talking about Shah Ruk Khan or Gekt[/QUOTE]

That's the guy I was gonna name (Shah Rukhan). I still haven't watched Om Shanti Om by the way.[/QUOTE]I know so many women I have met who would betray their husbands and leave jobs if it meant having him for one day.

Crazy.


Espy-I did. I got no reply, but anyway, okay and my apologies.


#214

Espy

Espy

Amorous Eyes;325418][QUOTE=JCM said:
Espy-I did. I got no reply, but anyway, okay.
Click to expand...

Your reply: http://www.halforums.com/forum/show...a-Calleja-wept&p=325206&viewfull=1#post325206[/QUOTE]

And there you go. You asked us to close a thread you were pissing in and everyone else was discussing things in. We don't lock threads when someone craps all over the place then doesn't want to deal with the fallout. That goes for the entire forum. Now, let's move on or else I'm going to get annoyed.


#215



JCM

Now thats confusing, asking for entertainment, and when one responds to insults.... anyway, for the third time, okay.

However I'd like to know Espy, how replying to two user's insults=pissing on everyone? BTW, the insults you posted had already been edited out from my last reply when Ame asked me in IRC, so this is slightly confusing.
JCM said:
otherwise they'd be stuck making films up to overdose like Elvis, or forced to cut back on experimentation like Hendrix to again, overdose.
Click to expand...
explanation for how record labels led to overdose requested[/QUOTE]Elvis was talked into a contract which got him stuck making movies while he watched the Beatles revinvent themselves and try new stuff. Hendrix branched out and started playing Jazz and heavy blues, with some long jam sessions. Record company said No and contract again made sure that he would make the same kind of music.

Not all labels, ind you, just two sad cases where bad managing helped bring down two great musicians.


#216

Espy

Espy

JCM said:
Now thats confusing, asking for entertainment, and when one responds to insults.... anyway, for the third time, okay.
Click to expand...
:facepalm: I responded to you lightheartedly instead of telling you to not waste our time reporting posts that really showed YOU insulting people after you egged them on. I gave you a chance and you just can't drop it. Fine, you get your wish. LOCKED


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