And somewhere a Calleja wept...

[Calleja]

Dude, they sold out one of the biggest stadiums in the world, El Estadio Azteca, something like 16 times. Not even U2 did that.

But I'm sure that's all thanks to the fame they had in the US, right? :lol:

If the majority of their songs is not in English, it would rarely ever be big in the US.
(There are exceptions, of course, there always are - doesn't that prove the rule, though?)
Anyone here heard any good Dutch bands lately? They exist, but you haven't heard of 'm.
Seen any good Bollywood movies lately? It's a multi-multi-million dollar industry, bigger than Hollywood.
How many movies have you seen? I'm sure Julio has seen quite a few, though, if I recall correctly.[/QUOTE]

...yeah. That's exactly my point. something doesn't HAVE to be big in the US for it to be known by millions and millions of people worldwide.

 

[Silver Jelly]

I freaking hate RBD, but it was a very big success in spain too.

 

[ElJuski]

Dude, they sold out one of the biggest stadiums in the world, El Estadio Azteca, something like 16 times. Not even U2 did that.

But I'm sure that's all thanks to the fame they had in the US, right? :lol:

If the majority of their songs is not in English, it would rarely ever be big in the US.
(There are exceptions, of course, there always are - doesn't that prove the rule, though?)
Anyone here heard any good Dutch bands lately? They exist, but you haven't heard of 'm.
Seen any good Bollywood movies lately? It's a multi-multi-million dollar industry, bigger than Hollywood.
How many movies have you seen? I'm sure Julio has seen quite a few, though, if I recall correctly.[/QUOTE]

...yeah. That's exactly my point. something doesn't HAVE to be big in the US for it to be known by millions and millions of people worldwide.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying that other countries don't have their own artistic merits. But US pop culture is pretty homogenized, and therefore, more likely to be seen world over. This is, in part, to the baby boomer generation being one of the biggest pushers of American pop culture consumerism.

It doesn't mean that THE ONLY FUCKING THING IN THE WORLD IS AMERICAN SHIT AND GIT DAMN ITS BETTER THAN THAT FOREIGN SHIT. But, really, how much more American-made pop culture do you see and are you fed on a daily basis, versus any of the other countries in the world (barring your own, or those immediately near you)?

I bet you more people worldwide know who Miley Cyrus is than any huge Asian pop star. Or any latin American pop star. Fuck, that doesn't mean that Miley Cyrus is GOOD, or BETTER. But one of America's biggest comodities to the world is pop culture.

 

[makare]

Dude, they sold out one of the biggest stadiums in the world, El Estadio Azteca, something like 16 times. Not even U2 did that.

But I'm sure that's all thanks to the fame they had in the US, right? :lol:

If the majority of their songs is not in English, it would rarely ever be big in the US.
(There are exceptions, of course, there always are - doesn't that prove the rule, though?)
Anyone here heard any good Dutch bands lately? They exist, but you haven't heard of 'm.
Seen any good Bollywood movies lately? It's a multi-multi-million dollar industry, bigger than Hollywood.
How many movies have you seen? I'm sure Julio has seen quite a few, though, if I recall correctly.[/QUOTE]

...yeah. That's exactly my point. something doesn't HAVE to be big in the US for it to be known by millions and millions of people worldwide.[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that that group you mentioned is as popular and enduring as the Beatles? Unless you are saying that, you are not talking about anything really relevant to this discussion.

 

[Chazwozel]

The Beatles suck.

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

The Beatles suck.

I'm surprised I haven't tagged the thread with that yet.

 

[ElJuski]

Ame, I don't know what you're arguing or what you're thinking you are arguing to me about. Disney is an American pop culture fabrication. So, uh, case in point.

 

[ElJuski]

And that's great for them. Now keep going. I bet the numbers won't equal out, country by country, LET ALONE USA vs. International.

This isn't necessarily a good thing at all, again, I remind you, dear readers.

 

[ElJuski]

Okay, so...that still proves my point. Doesn't matter the reason. The US is a powerhouse when it comes to producing pop culture. This includes the widespread appreciation of the Beatles, thanks, in part, to the baby boomers who helped make the American production of popculture so massive.

 

[The Key of J]

Not to mention the fact that all teenage Disney stars are triple threats; they can sing, dance, and act.

More like can't. I thought the Disney Channel was where good actors went to die.

 

[ElJuski]

"MOON PEOPLE!".. no wait.. "BABY BOOMERS!"

KABOOSH!

??

Uhm, anyway...The baby boomers came of age around the same time as the rock n' roll explosion, which is around where modern American pop-culture production really went into high gear.

But obviously we're not arguing or discussing or anything. Just random posts. Apparently mockingly, or you know, something, because there is an international butthurt button when you talk America's influence on pop culture.

 

[ElJuski]

If it wasn't implicit beforehand, I'll say it again: The United States is not the only thing in the known universe that has been known to create pop culture.

What I am saying is that usually pop culture which is produced in the United States finds itself doubly on an international front, regardless of region; there are other countries and cultures which contribute to a global pop culture spectrum. But the United States is a fucking juggernaut in the pop culture spectrum. So if something is big here, it's not surprising that the rest of the world is hearing about it.

So, yes, I never disagreed that the United States isn't the sole proprieter of these popcultural goods. And, no, I never disagreed that other countries don't have a similar effect on American pop culture as America does to other countries.

 

[ElJuski]

I'm not saying if it's good OR bad; it just is. There's plenty of awesome things that have come from overseas that have made an important splash here that's worth the while. America is just built on consumerism; our main export is product, which is inherently tied into pop culture. It's not a good or bad thing that we have relatively more widespread export of our goods. It's just a product of culture and climate.

 

[Kitty Sinatra]

There's plenty of awesome things that have come from overseas that have made an important splash here that's worth the while.

Like Celine Dion and the Barenaked Ladies. (which is the Vegas show I'd want to see)

Although Canada's not actually over a sea.

 

[Frank]

I love pop culture. heh

"Coca-Cola, Wonderbra"

Sometimes war!

 

[Chazwozel]

Fuck yeah, America!

 

[JCM]

I love pop culture. heh

"Coca-Cola, Wonderbra"

Sometimes war![/QUOTE]We all live in Amerikaaaaaaaa

 

[JCM]

because there is an international butthurt button when you talk America's influence on pop culture.

I don't think anyone would deny America's influence on pop culture.
"Nach Afrika kommt Santa Claus / und vor Paris steht Micky Maus"

What I do think is that you're overstating that influence just a tad.

Or, maybe better said, the US is not the only big influence on pop culture.
But that may be more apparent if you don't live inside the US.[/QUOTE]Bingo.

It seems the other way around, the odd untraveled guy getting a butthurt because he must acknowledge there is a world out there with different tastes.

Ironically, the Beatles arent even American, so I really dont get what the fuck ElJuski is trying to say about America's influence in a Beatles' thread, so lets get back to bad Beatles covers-

 

[Calleja]

Juski, there are also HUGE things in America that are completely unknown to the average citizen of the rest of the world. Oprah, for instance, could walk down Mexico City (perhaps the most american culture-soaked country, besides Canada) and people wouldn't even notice. Well, maybe she'd turn heads cause she's black and it's very rare to see black people down here, but that's besides the point.

I digress.

A great example of a worldwide phenomenon that needs not the acceptance of America.. football. The real football, what you call soccer. It's still the most played and followed sport worldwide, creating huge mega super stars that make trillions of dollars a year... and the average American couldn't even tell you what an offside means (or give you the definition ofr American football... which is another example of something HUGE in America that the rest of the world goes "meh" over).

Yes, American pop culture has INFLUENCE worldwide, but not as much as you guys seem to think. And notice how it's only non-Americans that are telling you, cause we're outside the US and we can actually see beyond its borders. You need to broaden your view of the world a tad, people. The baby boomers did not give The Beatles the lasting staying pop icon power they have IN THE REST OF THE WORLD, it may be true inside the US borders but it's certainly not true elsewhere. My city has a population of less than a million and there's still an annual Beatles Celebration day... and Querétaro is well outside the reach of the Baby Boomers. Which, I repeat once more, is solely an american phenomenon.

 

[Chippy]

because there is an international butthurt button when you talk America's influence on pop culture.

I don't think anyone would deny America's influence on pop culture.
"Nach Afrika kommt Santa Claus / und vor Paris steht Micky Maus"

What I do think is that you're overstating that influence just a tad.

Or, maybe better said, the US is not the only big influence on pop culture.
But that may be more apparent if you don't live inside the US.[/QUOTE]

Well said.

Also, I like soccer/football. Liverpool!

 

[ElJuski]

You guys aren't getting the point, and are seemingly stuck on some "I don't get it because I'm an American" tirade.

Therefore, international friends, make me a list of things that are considered internationally known pop culture items which are not American pop-culturally produced. You started with football, now continue. Impress me.

And, since apparently even pop culture icons like "Oprah Winfrey" don't count, it has to be big enough and international enough. The same standards apply, boyos.

And, since the biggest thing everyone is gonna throw against me is "Well you're American so you wouldn't understand", international friends, please be honest about your selections and please honestly tell other people their ideas aren't.

And also, once again, I'm not saying that producing the most entertainment is exactly a merit badge, nor am I saying that all other international stuff is without merit.

 

[sixpackshaker]

I used to tell people a while back that I helped my brother photograph the most popular rockband in the world, Junoon. A Pakistani band that is very popular in India. That is getting near a Billion Fans...

 

[ElJuski]

I really want to figure out a way to legitimately try and make a list that people on the internet can take. It would have to be a list of various pop culture things from all around the world, and people would fill out a survey and mark which of those items they know about. I think that would be the best way to objectively try and see what people around the world know. And how much of what they know comes from where.

You laugh........but that's 8 things. Keep going.

 

[ElJuski]

Haha, that is a mess of different arguments and demands right there. Don't get so worked up and personally invested. No need to sound like you're backed into a corner here; obviously you're agreeing that the US popculture machine is a fact.

If we all agree that the US is a sheer brutre force in creating pop culture that goes across the world--as I thought we did--then there's nothing to argue. I was just proving that point...which, unless my comprehension is WAY off, is what Calleja was still nagging on about. America takes up a huge portion of the worldwide pop culture pie.

 

[Calleja]

RBD
Luis Miguel
Juan Gabriel
Maná
Caifanes
Soda Stereo
Los Fabulosos Cadillacs
Fobia
Gustavo Cerati
Bunbury
Heroes del Silencio
Silvio Rodriguez
Carlos Santana
Lucero
Miguel Bosé
Tatiana
Alejandra Guzmán


And those are all just off the top of my head, I didn't pause to think between any of those. Those are all internationally successful artists, mostly musicians, that fill stadiums and whatnot all over Latin America, Europe, the Caribbean and in some instances even Asia. I went to a Caribbean island, which is actually a protectorate of the Netherlands, called Curacao and when the locals found out I was mexican they began singing back to me Maná (a Mexican "rock" group I loathe).

Losing proposition, Joosk, asking for a list... every single international poster in the forum could make a list of famous pop icons that the US has never heard about.

 

[Calleja]

He thinks that without the US the world would have like 5 famous people. (yes, I'm being hyperbolic)

 

[@Li3n]

all i got is this:

 

[ElJuski]

He thinks that without the US the world would have like 5 famous people. (yes, I'm being hyperbolic)

...No, dude. Not at all. I never said that. I continually reminded you guys I wasn't saying that. Ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. All I said, and continue to say, is relatively, one of America's hugest exports is pop culture. And it gets pushed around the world. It doesn't belittle any other country in any other way, nor does it say that you guys will never have any celebrities or pop culture worth knowing. In FACT, I envy the sort of non-homogenous pop culture non-Americans get from a variety of different influences.

My god, you guys are SO butthurt over this.

 

[sixpackshaker]

Remember to discount anyone famous for playing Rock-n-Roll. An American Institution ripped from the Blues.

 

[Calleja]

I'm not butt hurt at all!

We've stated and agreed that the Baby Boomers are an American-only phenomena, we also have, now, agreed that the world doesn't need the US to have pop icons.

Ergo... why are you still arguing that The Beatles are what they are worldwide thanks to the american-only baby boomers? That's the jist of it. We can say that they (Beatles) are what they IN the US thanks to the baby boomers, fair enough.... but not worldwide. That's what both you and makare were arguing.

Remember to discount anyone famous for playing Rock-n-Roll. An American Institution ripped from the Blues.

Well, if we're going to go to the roots of stuff then I'll say right now that M&Ms and Snickers and EVERYTHING chocolatey is Mexican, cause this is were cacao came from.

No, no, scratch that. Everything is African, cause that's where the Human Race comes from. There, settled.

 

[General Specific]

Actually, everything is from Space because that's where all the dust that clumped togetherto create the Earth came from.

We're all Space-People listening to our Space-Music.

 

[Calleja]

....you know, come to think of it, 99% of the world's problems would be solved overnight if people actually thought like that, that we're all really, in the end, the same clump of space-stuff

 

[Calleja]

Ahhh.. Sagan. My favorite pothead. He left us too soon.

 

[sixpackshaker]

I'm not butt hurt at all!

We've stated and agreed that the Baby Boomers are an American-only phenomena, we also have, now, agreed that the world doesn't need the US to have pop icons.

Ergo... why are you still arguing that The Beatles are what they are worldwide thanks to the american-only baby boomers? That's the jist of it. We can say that they (Beatles) are what they IN the US thanks to the baby boomers, fair enough.... but not worldwide. That's what both you and makare were arguing.

Remember to discount anyone famous for playing Rock-n-Roll. An American Institution ripped from the Blues.

Well, if we're going to go to the roots of stuff then I'll say right now that M&Ms and Snickers and EVERYTHING chocolatey is Mexican, cause this is were cacao came from.

No, no, scratch that. Everything is African, cause that's where the Human Race comes from. There, settled.

The Beatles even took their name and part of their early sound from Buddy Holly. That is Global Influence.

The next step on my influence is Blues was Ripped from field chants, that came from the Share Cropper/Slave culture that was Ripped from Africa.

 

[Calleja]

Yes, sixpack, we're all well-aware that if you distill stuff you'll get roots from all over. The Italians took the Chinese's noodles and America's (the continent) tomatoes and made pasta. Does that mean we shouldn't call pasta italian?