Changing hosts

Dave

Staff member
I'm probably going to be changing hosts soon. I show we were down all or part of:
  • December 21
  • December 23
  • December 24
  • December 25
  • January 6
  • January 19
  • January 21
  • January 22
  • January 25
  • January 28
Looking at the fact that December was 31 days and January has had 28, that's 59 total days. We've been down at least a part of 16.9% of the time. And if you start on the 21st when the shit hit the fan we're talking 10 out of 39 days, which is 25.6%. That's insane.

So I apologize to everyone for having to do this again. I've stuck with this guy through some hard times both here and on his end and I feel like crap doing this, but today was the last straw. I am super busy at work and just didn't have time for this to happen again. Stay tuned. I'll keep everyone in the loop.
 

Dave

Staff member
My letter to the host.

Mike,

I'm sorry to be sending this because I think you're a damned good guy. But after today, we've been down a part of 16.9% of the days starting December 1, and if you start when we first hit the big snag on December 21, it moves to 25.6% of the days we've had some sort of down time. I've had a meeting with my admins and mods (they called it, not me) and we've decided that it's time to move hosting. No, I'm not asking for money back for anything I've paid.

I really hate doing this. I know you're a good guy, but today was just the last straw. I'm very busy at work and will be on the road a lot in the upcoming months and I just can't take the time to deal with this every other day. I know it's not your fault - the DDoS and equipment going down, for example - but whatever the reason, we have not had the uptime that should reasonably be expected. I know we're a small fish in the grand scheme of things, but my users have been getting frustrated as much as I.

So as much as I hate to do it, could I please have access to the cPanel for the three sites - Halforums, nihsen.com, and workhouseentertainment.com. I wish you the best of luck and when I say I harbor no ill will towards you I do mean it.
And I mean this, by the way. I really like the guy. But today I was just too busy to have to deal with it.
 
I feel like it's probably not all his fault, either, but I have no idea how to go about remedying it aside from moving hosting.
Still looking forward to the day we can just colo a custom-built Halforums server.

--Patrick
 

Dave

Staff member
I feel like it's probably not all his fault, either, but I have no idea how to go about remedying it aside from moving hosting.
Still looking forward to the day we can just colo a custom-built Halforums server.

--Patrick
Had I won the lottery that would have been a reality! Alas...
 
I'll be fiddling with a cloud VPS hosted forum setup later this year ( discourse.org for those curious) but running on a cloud VPS from a provider separate from the developers (who are all around good guys and friends, but their hosting is more costly).

Going to the cloud resolves issues with machine downtime/maintenance, and if you go with a big provider like amazon cloud services you can get great uptime and reliability. Even if the virtual machine goes down, your data is safe, and you can just destroy the running instance and restart a new one. Use a service to watch uptime, and if it detects the site is down it notifies you, destroys the instance and restarts it so you're never down for more than a few minutes.

It'd be too big a transition for this forum, at least at this time, but it's finally a mature enough forum software that I'm going to be fiddling with it, and it might be worth looking at later.
 

Dave

Staff member
So Zappit keeps asking me about the possibility of merging with another forum. Here's his note. Let me know what you think. It would affect all of us so I'm not making this unilaterally. As of right now I don't know what we'd be gaining/losing. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to change to Halforums. Thoughts?


Hey, Dave,

I noticed the message of the impending split from our host, and I might have a potential solution. Would a potential merger with Spiderforest be something you'd be interested in? We've been growing and developing more lately, with a really snazzy new front page. We're on an old, grandfathered deal that gives us unlimited bandwidth and storage, so that part's no big deal. It's about $200 a year for us, so it's a CRAZY good deal today. Might save you some cash on the yearly renewal as you would not have to carry the freight alone. SF has been around for over a decade, and we're not disappearing anytime soon. We did even discuss/try putting a webcomics collective together here before. This would come built in.

But the SF forums are stale and old. A Xenforo build would be a huge upgrade, and having some regular mods that aren't cartoonists might be a boon, too. We have a ton of comics fans here, so the communities would blend very well. Both sides would bring a lotto the table.

It's just an idea. A thought. I wanted to gauge your interest, and if it might be something you'd like to explore, I can bring it to them. I do think they would be receptive, though.

Think about it and let me know. You know I love this community, and if I can help this way, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
 
So Zappit keeps asking me about the possibility of merging with another forum. Here's his note. Let me know what you think. It would affect all of us so I'm not making this unilaterally. As of right now I don't know what we'd be gaining/losing. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to change to Halforums. Thoughts?
Outsiders? OUTSIDERS!

**begins whooping and beating chest**
 
Well, it would mean we would require more overlords pylons computing resources and storage space, that's for sure.
But then we're looking at something that probably require a larger initial investment or periodic payment, too.

--Patrick
 
Outsiders? OUTSIDERS!

**begins whooping and beating chest**
This was my first reaction too. I mean, we have a great little community here, we know each other pretty well, and the idea of changing things up with a bunch of new people is a little scary. Maybe I'm just antisocial, I dunno.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure we're losing members faster than we're gaining them, so who knows how long our little community can last? Ultimately it may be necessary to merge with another forum just to keep membership high enough to justify the expense and effort of having a forum at all.

Right now, I'm on the fence. Just dunno.
 
So Zappit keeps asking me about the possibility of merging with another forum. Here's his note. Let me know what you think. It would affect all of us so I'm not making this unilaterally. As of right now I don't know what we'd be gaining/losing. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to change to Halforums. Thoughts?
They've got 40k posts going back to 2005.

We've got 700k posts going back to 2008.

Producing 20x the content in 3/4 the time, means whatever culture they have there would be utterly swamped by us.

Further, they may not comprehend the load we place on a server.

Lastly, hosting companies that offer "unlimited" accounts often do have limits they don't tell you about until you hit them, even for "grandfathered" accounts.

I don't actually have any advice, other than this should be given a lot of consideration, and most assuredly shouldn't be jumped into without a great deal of thought and analysis.

That said, I implicitly trust you and your decision, Dave. You've been carrying this load for a very long time and your needs take precedence.
 
How much autonomy would we get? Would we be able to continue act the way we do and have our mods moderate the way they do, or would their admins get a say (or more control, since it is their "space")?
 

Dave

Staff member
How much autonomy would we get? Would we be able to continue act the way we do and have our mods moderate the way they do, or would their admins get a say (or more control, since it is their "space")?
These questions and more need to be answered!
 

Zappit

Staff member
We gotta hash it out. A dialogue has been started. The senior member/usual representative I've been communicating with is receptive to Dave as a global admin and our mods as mods. The SF forum already has a fairly similar structure, so it wouldn't be a seismic culture shift. We'd be a big part of revamping it.

As for bandwidth and storage, Spiderforest has a metric fuckton. It's seriously not a problem.

The reason I made the proposal is because SF is well over a decade old, and it has a community that isn't all that different from ours, in terms of personality. We'd fit together very well. I like these people a lot.

Like I said, there's a dialogue, and a lot of details need to be worked out. But SF is a stable, established collective (10+ Years) that is currently revamping itself. This is possible route we can take that might also help take a little bit off Dave's plate, too.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I'm of the opinion we should retain our autonomy, and just get another host. I like Zappit's comic and all, but I really don't see a clear benefit to merging with a smaller community of which we have no prior contact, and I see plenty of potential downsides. For my recommendation, our best course of interest would be to simply find different hosting, transfer our DB and the forum to it, and continue on as we have.
 
I agree, but I rarely post so I wouldn't put much weight behind my opinion. I'd probably post more if I thought I could contribute more. Even at parties and such I'm the one that sits in the corner quietly.
 
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Dave

Staff member
One of the things she thinks they might insist on is keeping their URL and "top billing". Personally, I'm wondering what benefit we'd actually get that we couldn't get by moving to a new host. Losing :Leyla:would mean we're no longer us, you know?
 
One of the things she thinks they might insist on is keeping their URL and "top billing". Personally, I'm wondering what benefit we'd actually get that we couldn't get by moving to a new host. Losing :Leyla:would mean we're no longer us, you know?
The only benefit would be potentially lessening your workload and you're the one to make that call. Otherwise, I pretty much agree with @GasBandit 's assessment. (Especially if we'd lose our Halforum branding.)
 
If we joined a webcomic site we'd have come full circle. I don't like the idea, because I'm afraid we'd lose us.

On the plus side, maybe Charlie won't be able to find us if we change our name.:awesome:





(I kid)
 
I dunno. Merging with someone else and losing our name would make my favorite coffee mug even less meaningful.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Losing the name and logo is a nonstarter for me. I've got dozens of youtube videos that are all branded "Halforums edition." And even if losing our name and logo weren't enough for pause, consider this... @stienman's traffic numbers show us to generate 10 times the traffic, give or take. If the Spiderforest people, at some point down the road, regret that they're in essence paying for a community 10 times their size to squat in their house and drown them out, consider the mess that would be entailed in un-merging back into 2 separate entities. This would be a proposition with no easy "undo."

Consider the entanglements of ownership - there's already a lot of things I can't do for Halforums despite being the "tech" admin because Dave's name is on all the paperwork and the hosting people, the xenforo support people, etc won't give me the time of day. Imagine that an order of magnitude greater because even Dave's name won't be on the paperwork if we wear Spiderforest like a hat. And, god forbid, if there eventually turns out to be friction and drama between the admin staff of the two, there's not a lot of recourse for us.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
Now, here's my question: @GasBandit, could you find us a server option out there?
Possibly. I'd need to get some data from Dave on things like our bandwidth and disk space useage so that I can price stuff out, but it's not rocket surgery and the market is glutted with hosting companies. The company I host Gasbanditry.com through has higher tier plans, the largest of which is 17 bucks a month for 2Tb of monthly bandwidth and 250 gigs of HD space and all the bells and whistles we'd expect (in fact the majority of which we'd probably not use). If we need less than that, there are lesser plans. And this company is not unique in this, it's just a matter of sitting down and taking the time to compare what is offered vs what is needed and seeing who's got the best deal.
 

Dave

Staff member
I already have a placed lined up.

And I was going to keep this private, but in the interest of disclosure, here's the email I sent to the Admin over there:

I'd be willing to bet from the subject line you know who this is. Zappit has told me a little about you and I stealthily poked around your forum a bit. I think the merger would have some benefits for both parties, but I fear that it may not be exactly feasible.

Because I'm an analyst, let me get all numbery for you.

Total Users - Halforums 1019, SF 489
Threads - Halforums 15003, SF 3451
Posts - Halforums 725233, SF 40985

Posts in December alone for Halforums was 6033. We average about 6350 posts each month (6350.833 if you want to be exact). It would literally take us 6.4 months to match what your group has done. This is not being mean or trying to one up you, it's to show you the stark numbers. The reason for that is...

I can see a lot of benefits for both places, but way, WAY more benefits for you. You had stated that you'd want to keep your brand and url - which totally makes sense considering it's the forum of spiderforest.com! Hell, changing it to anything else would be stupid. But here's the thing. You would gain a large influx of users who already know each other and interact well. You'd get an influx of posts, topics, readers to your comics...you'd be getting a second life!

Now look at what we'd get. Removal of our branding. Removal of our URL. Yeah, we'd get hosting, but that benefits only me, not my folks. About the only thing we'd all get that we don't have now is a purpose. Right now we're just a forum that exists because we know each other. There's hardly any new folks coming in because there's no actual topic. You guys have a purpose - the comics - that we lack. I totally get that. In fact, we tried at one point to be a webcomic host like you are. Didn't work for us.

And there's one other thing that we'd lose. The ability to just do stuff. Like the other day I saw an addon that I wanted to try out. So I did. Has it caught on? Nope. But I tried it anyway because at the time I thought it was cool. We'd be losing that autonomy and freedom that we have right now. And would we be able to merge DBs or would we lose our post history? Or would you lose yours (if we went with the Xenforo platform instead of phpBB? I'd really, REALLY hate to lose our history. And I'll bet you would as well.

So while I thank Zappit and think his heart is in the right place, I don't see a real benefit in this for us. You? I see a lot and I can see how you would be very excited for it. But frankly you'd be giving up nothing and getting everything while we'd be getting nothing while giving everything. And that's not fair to my users.

I truly hope I'm not coming across as insulting because I don't mean it that way. I'm trying to find a solution that would be beneficial to everyone and I just don't see it. I think Zap is a good guy but not sure he thought this all the way through. He sees his two favorite places coming together with rainbows and puppies and not thinking about how you would feel being associated with one of the top searches for "minotaur penis" on Google. We used to be #1 but then the movie "Your Highness" came out & dropped us to #9. Stupid Danny McBride.

Anyway, if you have ideas or thought of something I'm overlooking, please feel free to discuss. I haven't shut down anything yet because I hadn't spoken with you, but I thought it only fair you knew from whence I came thought-wise.


Your in Forumability,

Dave
 
Would definitely be a shame to lose the "seemed like a good idea at the time" vibe. :)

And yeah, dropping... "him"... on an unsuspecting party would absolutely, positively NOT go over well.
 
Lose our branding? We're the big dick forum, here, they should be asking to join us!

I think you made the right call, Dave, even if it would have been fun overthrowing their forums and annexing every thread to the glory of off topic.
 
Heh - I had this image of CDS coming back in a couple of months only to find a shuttered up run down shack with no forwarding address
 
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