EA Needs to F*** off and die
- Thread starter HowDroll
- Start date
Well, don't you worry. That won't be a problem after this whole your-game-code-is-only-good-one-time turns every game into 100% DLC with 0% resaleability.
--Patrick
What does this even mean
At the rate I am drinking Red Bull,eating sweets and watching porn,getting diabetes and going to hell wont be far off.
I hate you,Juski.
ElJuski
Staff member
Oof, somebody's never been to the South Pacific. awwwwkwarrrd
Necronic
Staff member
Yeah, I mean, I thought my post was pretty clear. At least you understood it.
Well it's quite blunt so I'm not sure how people could interpert it differently... so kudos to you for clarity at the least.
Really though, you have no evidence either way as to my purchasing/gaming habits so for you to make such a sweeping generalization about me isn't very accurate (or nice).
S
SeraRelm
Stop taking it as a personal attack, unless you feel it does describe you. People do the shit he mentioned.
Necronic
Staff member
It may not be nice but it's my assessment. Look EA is one of the biggest developers on the planet right now, and (according to average rankings of releases) one of the best. You may not like what they are doing with DAO2/ME3, and that's a fair reason to ignore those games in the future. I mean, hey, I disliked ME1 and never looked twice at one of the sequals (or any other of its kind, like DAO, although maybe I should play that one.)
But to say that you will never buy another EA game (or one that supports them financially), or another Bioware game, or another Maxis game, or another Mythic game (assuming they ever make one lol) or another Popcap game, or an EA partners game like Crysis 3 or DICE games......that's hard to believe.
It's harder to believe that than to believe that you are saying this for the effect and self-righteousness that pervades so much of gaming culture these days.
Edit: Sera, you should read my last post. It was a personal attack. At least, I was putting his person into the group I was attacking.
But to say that you will never buy another EA game (or one that supports them financially), or another Bioware game, or another Maxis game, or another Mythic game (assuming they ever make one lol) or another Popcap game, or an EA partners game like Crysis 3 or DICE games......that's hard to believe.
It's harder to believe that than to believe that you are saying this for the effect and self-righteousness that pervades so much of gaming culture these days.
Edit: Sera, you should read my last post. It was a personal attack. At least, I was putting his person into the group I was attacking.
Fair enough Necronic... but I am going to do my best to support other publishers and keep my money away from EA... even if it means I have to miss out on some games. What other choice do I have to show displeasure with EA? It's not like they will listen to carefully worded letters. Not giving them money is the only thing that will make a difference... and I realize I'm only one person but so be it. Also I'm not saying this to be self-righteous but if that's the way it's coming across then I will stop mentioning it in the future (but I will still rag on ME3 and DA2).
Honestly missing some games isn't even a big deal anymore anyways... with two kids, plans for a third one plus all the other hobbies I have... gaming time has been dwindling fiercely.
Honestly missing some games isn't even a big deal anymore anyways... with two kids, plans for a third one plus all the other hobbies I have... gaming time has been dwindling fiercely.
S
SeraRelm
Yeah, I saw you do that after I posted. Stuff escalated it looks like. Moving on.
Necronic
Staff member
Fair enough AP. Just to be fair let me explain why this bothers me and why I go after it, not just here or this, but whenever I see people attacking games/gaming companies in certain ways.
The gaming industry is finally being understood to be a serious thing. There was a report recently that showed that more people play games than watch network television. It's big money, and it's also a significant part of our 21st century culture.
Yet, even with these changes gaming itself is seen less as an active hobby requiring intellect and talent and more as an addiction or an escape mechanism used by a clade of immature, socially awkward, mother's basement dwelling, mouthbreathing, and generally valueless people.
As someone who loves gaming and sees it as a major part of their life to now, and a major part of the rest of their life, this bothers me. I shouldn't have to hide who I am because of this portrayal of my hobby, but I do. I can't talk about it at work, I can't talk about it to a new friend, and I my girlfriend and family barely tolerate it. And this is based on a false portrayal like I mentioned above. It is, at best, tolerated. Never celebrated.
But yet I understand the view, because its the view that gamers themselves often portray. One part of this, the part I was attacking here (perhaps unfairly), is the absolute hyperbole in rhetoric that often comes out of gamers, at a level reminiscent of the sophomoric sophomore espousing his views on politics. Right now I may be particularly jaded because I've been spending an unhealthy amount of time on the battlenet forums (any amount of time is unhealthy), and if that area is a good measure of gaming culture then I would suggest it be the first stop in any new eugenics program.
Beyond that it also actually effects the quality of the games we end up getting, in an ironically negative way. When the voices from a community are as unreasonable and childish as many of the ones I see are, pouting, screaming, unable to form a cogent argument in lieu of an emotional tantrum that even many children would be embarassed by, what hope to the designers have to distinguish the signal of good, constructive feedback, from the overwhelming, and overwhelmingly abbrassive, noise? Would you blame them if they just write off their consumers as "The New Scum" and treat them like children? How hard is it to notice the one kid who is saying something smart that would help you in a classroom full of screaming brats?
And its not like the majority of gamers ARE like this. Most are reasonable people. But they are never the ones that are seen or heard. No, our unelected representation is brought forward not through their reason and intellect, but through their lack of it.
So when I read someone screaming "WE DEMAND A REFUND" or "CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT" or "WE WILL BOYCOTT YOU", it goes beyond me just rolling my eyes. I see it as a fundamental attack on my way of life. I see it as a misrepresentation of my character and something that truly effects my life in a negative way. I feel like all the honest politicians, lawyers and businessmen out there who are unfairly despised for the actions of their dishonest counterparts.
And maybe I did falsely impugn you by lumping you into this category as well. It was definitely an inductive leap to do so. And if I'm wrong then I sincerely apologize, because I am mistaking a point of signal for a point of noise which is the exact symptom I hate so much. But if I am right, and you see yourself a year from now buying another EA game, another DAO, or ME, or one of the many hundreds of games they have and will produce, I want you to remember what I've said here. And I want you to consider what you're doing to our culture.
The gaming industry is finally being understood to be a serious thing. There was a report recently that showed that more people play games than watch network television. It's big money, and it's also a significant part of our 21st century culture.
Yet, even with these changes gaming itself is seen less as an active hobby requiring intellect and talent and more as an addiction or an escape mechanism used by a clade of immature, socially awkward, mother's basement dwelling, mouthbreathing, and generally valueless people.
As someone who loves gaming and sees it as a major part of their life to now, and a major part of the rest of their life, this bothers me. I shouldn't have to hide who I am because of this portrayal of my hobby, but I do. I can't talk about it at work, I can't talk about it to a new friend, and I my girlfriend and family barely tolerate it. And this is based on a false portrayal like I mentioned above. It is, at best, tolerated. Never celebrated.
But yet I understand the view, because its the view that gamers themselves often portray. One part of this, the part I was attacking here (perhaps unfairly), is the absolute hyperbole in rhetoric that often comes out of gamers, at a level reminiscent of the sophomoric sophomore espousing his views on politics. Right now I may be particularly jaded because I've been spending an unhealthy amount of time on the battlenet forums (any amount of time is unhealthy), and if that area is a good measure of gaming culture then I would suggest it be the first stop in any new eugenics program.
Beyond that it also actually effects the quality of the games we end up getting, in an ironically negative way. When the voices from a community are as unreasonable and childish as many of the ones I see are, pouting, screaming, unable to form a cogent argument in lieu of an emotional tantrum that even many children would be embarassed by, what hope to the designers have to distinguish the signal of good, constructive feedback, from the overwhelming, and overwhelmingly abbrassive, noise? Would you blame them if they just write off their consumers as "The New Scum" and treat them like children? How hard is it to notice the one kid who is saying something smart that would help you in a classroom full of screaming brats?
And its not like the majority of gamers ARE like this. Most are reasonable people. But they are never the ones that are seen or heard. No, our unelected representation is brought forward not through their reason and intellect, but through their lack of it.
So when I read someone screaming "WE DEMAND A REFUND" or "CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT" or "WE WILL BOYCOTT YOU", it goes beyond me just rolling my eyes. I see it as a fundamental attack on my way of life. I see it as a misrepresentation of my character and something that truly effects my life in a negative way. I feel like all the honest politicians, lawyers and businessmen out there who are unfairly despised for the actions of their dishonest counterparts.
And maybe I did falsely impugn you by lumping you into this category as well. It was definitely an inductive leap to do so. And if I'm wrong then I sincerely apologize, because I am mistaking a point of signal for a point of noise which is the exact symptom I hate so much. But if I am right, and you see yourself a year from now buying another EA game, another DAO, or ME, or one of the many hundreds of games they have and will produce, I want you to remember what I've said here. And I want you to consider what you're doing to our culture.
There was a point I loved the Final Fantasy series and would throw my money to every new game that came out. Now, I don't even look at the new games and hear the cries of woe from other people who try the new games. This is exactly how it'll be with Bioware and anything that comes from EA.
"Buyer Beware".
The game may sound great... but they no longer get the automatic "pre-order" label and will wait until reviews come in and I'll take it from there.
Sorry but one thing is for sure though, the Day 1 DLC makes me feel no remorse in torrenting their shit.
"Buyer Beware".
The game may sound great... but they no longer get the automatic "pre-order" label and will wait until reviews come in and I'll take it from there.
Sorry but one thing is for sure though, the Day 1 DLC makes me feel no remorse in torrenting their shit.
So, out of curiosity, how would you suggest that we respond to the recent abuses of major publishers? Or do you not see a problem at all with Day 1 DLC/completely unreasonable DRM/unfinished games/etc.?
Also, you need to stop giving a shit about what people think about you because you happen to be a gamer. I can almost guarantee that they don't care about it nearly as much as you think they do.
The idea of hiding things I enjoy from others baffles me. Especially something like video gaming.
I miss Westwood Studios.
Necronic
Staff member
Honestly I've never understood any of those complaints:
1) Day 1 DLC: If the company needs to do this to justify their development costs then so be it. If they added the day 1 DLC in for free then the game would cost more. Now, if they are over-charging for what you are getting (or for the work they put in), then yeah that's a problem, and defining that value (or their cost in production) is difficult. But philosophically Day 1 DLC is not an issue to me. Basically it's like selling a car. You can get the basic car, or you can get it with addons. Day1 DLC allows some people to customize their purchase, while not forcing everyone to pay excessive costs.
2) Unreasonable DRM. Ok, how do you define it? If you're talking about a rootkit that could potentially damage your PC, you better believe I will be behind people crying foul at the company. If you're talking about "always online" DRM, I don't really care. Minimum requirements for a game have always been around. This is just another one of those. If you have a spotty internet connection (or no internet connection) I sincerely feel for you. But not because you can't play a game. More because you are living in the 21st century without a 30$/month internet connection.
3) Unfinished games. I'm assuming this is the same as the Day1 DLC, but I'm not certain. I will admit that I'm not the best judge of this, because I have never played a game for the story (if that's what you are talking about). Books and telivision are more focused, better and more entertaining/condensed than a game could be. That said. When a game is produced that is a story, and the story leaves a cliffhanger ending that has to be "purchased", I could see that as a major concern to people, and I can understand why they would be frustrated.
I definitely get it to an extent -- as a woman who games/programs/writes fantasy/fantasizes about zombie apocalypses, I find it really hard to relate to a lot of other women (although, thankfully, many of the lovely ladies of Halforums are an exception to this!) When my co-workers (pretty much all female) ask me what I did over the weekend, I usually don't divulge that I got drunk and played 12 hours of Skyrim -- but it's not because I'm ashamed of it. It's because they don't give a shit about how my mage took down, like, so many dragons -- although to be fair, I don't really want to hear about what happened on Dancing With the Stars last week either. Lots of people have hobbies that other folks find boring. I don't want to hear about someone's stamp collection either, even though ZOMG they just got a rare stamp from 1922 that's worth so much monies ahhhh!!!
But, yeah, there's zero shame there. If someone asks me what my hobbies are, I tell them -- including said co-workers when I interviewed for this job. If they don't like it, they can get bent.
I probably shouldn't have used the word "never" because absolutes are rarely ever applicable. More than likely I will only ever buy an EA product again if it looks amazing to me and gets rave reviews from sources I trust... and you can be sure I won't be buying any of their products at launch. I'll be waiting till the price drops.
To give you some more perspective though, I've already eliminated most EA from my diet. With the exception of the Dragon age and Mass Effect games I haven't bought any of their stuff for quite some time. I've missed out on some games I've really wanted to try (like Crysis) but I have to at least try to stick to my guns.
Also, don't take my criticism of EA as an attack against you. I'm just very upset with them running companies I have loved into the ground and Bioware was the straw that broke the camel's back if you will. The only thing I can do is not give them my money. However... if they actually manage to craft something worthy I may be enticed to purchase it... but they do not get a free pass from me anymore (this criticism is mostly aimed at Bioware... who have fallen under EA's shadow).
I will remember what you've said here and I will do my best not to become a hypocritical EA buying drone in the future.
And as for you EA... you suck!
Added at: 13:16
This is NOT an attack against you... but if you don't play games for story... you likely will never understand the feelings of betrayal with how ME3 and DA2 mishandled their stories with respect to the excellent ones that came before them. Kind of the same way I can't get into Diablo 3 as much as you can.
EA committed all three of these sins recently with Mass Effect 3, which is the reason they were the specific target of my vitriol in this thread. I'm going to assume, since you said you don't play games for the story and never posted in the 37-page ME3 thread, that you haven't played it and aren't necessarily in the target demographic -- so I'll give you a brief rundown of why I, and thousands upon thousands of other gamers, are STILL foaming at the mouth when it comes to EA:
1) The Mass Effect trilogy story basically involves a race of ancient, sentient machines called the Reapers destroying galactic civilization every 50,000 years. Most of earth -- and the other alien planets' -- major technological advancements came from a race called the Protheans, who were the last race wiped out by the Reapers 50,000 years ago. Needless to say, the Protheans are not a peripheral part of the overall plot. The Day 1 DLC debacle in Mass Effect 3 occurred because BiowarEA released a Prothean squadmember -- the first and only living member of the Prothean race that we'd seen in all three games -- as a $10 download. People were pissed about that, but they were mostly pissed because most/all of the DLC content was on the retail disc -- you had to pay to unlock it. Anyone who played the game can tell really easily that he was not an afterthought after the main development cycle -- there is squadmate dialogue with him throughout the game that answers a lot of questions about a huge mystery of the ME universe. Strike one.
2) EA games are no longer released on Steam, and even if you buy a physical copy of the game, you have to install their Origin client to validate it. People have dug around and found that it scans files on your entire machine and phones home with that information; it doesn't just make sure you don't have a pirated copy of the game. Again, this is now MANDATORY for all EA games you purchase (if you are a legit paying customer, that is. If you pirate them, you can bypass the whole thing.) Strike two.
3) There is a 37-page thread on the Mass Effect ending bullshit, so I'm not going to go into it much here. The vast majority of forumites who have played the game weren't merely dissatisfied with the ending -- we were almost unanimously OUTRAGED. It was that bad. (The lead developer is on video as saying he didn't want a boss fight because they are too "video-game-y.") We have quote after quote from the developers saying "you are NOT going to get an A, B, C ending where your choices don't matter," and that is literally EXACTLY what we got. I don't think I can explain how bad it was to you if you're not familiar with the Mass Effect universe and if you don't play games for the story, but yeah, give us an ounce of credit and take our word for it. It was a rushed, shitty, awful ending. It's the equivalent of a publisher saying "oh, yeah, we're releasing this game that is going to have 10 different classes with a dozen abilities each, and twenty different multiplayer levels, and thirty-five unique weapons," and then releasing three classes on one overcrowded server, and charging you for all the good weapons after the first five. Promises were made, then they were broken. Strike three.
Seriously, EA sucks. We are really, really justified in complaining about them. Buying their games vs. pirating vs. boycotting is a different argument, but yeah. We are not attacking your way of life -- we are complaining about being lied to and taken advantage of.
Since you're talking about cars, this is the perfect example referring to what you just said when it comes to EA.
I'm buying a car and that particular model cost more than the average price for that particular model type range and looking into it, they advertise a "spare tire" feature for an additional fee which already comes in all other standard versions in that model type range.
Or perhaps since I'm a dirty Quebecois, going to the Bakery store... buying a delicious baguette for $60, only to realize the end of the baguette, a whole 15% of it has been cut off and then noticing it over the counter and is available at a great price of an additional 10$.
EA can suck it.
I do. I really do.
ElJuski
Staff member
And to think that they don't know of the magic.
No, but seriously, I'm all down for making fun of gamers whining and not doing anything productive--but shit, the gaming industry fucks you guys over SO HARD. If I bought more than like, three games a year, tops, I'd be seriously pissed off about it. I think the gaming subculture just needs to organize and not show up to the fight like a bunch of fat, gurgling diabetic bastards.
We love you too Juicy!
Necronic
Staff member
Ok. I get why you guys didn't like ME3. And I have nothing against the criticism of ME3, or the criticism against EA that was in the OP, more or less. I personally despised ME1 and considered it to be poorly designed/balanced with the thinnest of a nod to "choice", and a very subpar FPS, which is why I never even watched a trailer for the following two (or any other bioware game for that matter), and to be honest I'm not surprised that it went downhill.
My post was more a general complaint about the form that complaints about games often seem to take. Sometimes, oftentimes, the way posting seems to happen just beats me down to a numb nub of a noob. The D3 thread is really where this post should have gone, and was more or less what was motivating it.
Anyways, on the "caring what other people think" comment: You're right, I shouldn't care what other people think. I think that's the highest goal for a person to have a self-sufficient ego. But hey, what can I say, I'm weak. I've done things in gaming culture that I am proud of, and wish I could brag about them to show people what I can accomplish when I am dedicated to something as much as I am dedicated to games. I ran a podcast for almost a year that had between 200-1k subscribers/listeners. I wrote a 30 page economics guide that used advanced financial and economic analyses. I got to a point where I was being invited to speak with developers on other podcasts. I am one of the faster Minesweeper players in the world (seriously), and I've held world rankings on certain puzzle games.
And no one I am close to understands how much those things meant to me, or how hard they were. I can't even try to explain it to them, not really, because "hey, it's just a silly game" (I don't even try to explain the minesweeper thing). It's not so much that I want other people to appreciate or value, or even respect my accomplishments (although it would be nice). But having them look down on me for them is hard. I'm not ashamed, and I shouldn't have to feel like I should be.
Added at: 20:48
Edit: Ok these last few posts are entirely too serious. To the Monty Python!
My post was more a general complaint about the form that complaints about games often seem to take. Sometimes, oftentimes, the way posting seems to happen just beats me down to a numb nub of a noob. The D3 thread is really where this post should have gone, and was more or less what was motivating it.
Anyways, on the "caring what other people think" comment: You're right, I shouldn't care what other people think. I think that's the highest goal for a person to have a self-sufficient ego. But hey, what can I say, I'm weak. I've done things in gaming culture that I am proud of, and wish I could brag about them to show people what I can accomplish when I am dedicated to something as much as I am dedicated to games. I ran a podcast for almost a year that had between 200-1k subscribers/listeners. I wrote a 30 page economics guide that used advanced financial and economic analyses. I got to a point where I was being invited to speak with developers on other podcasts. I am one of the faster Minesweeper players in the world (seriously), and I've held world rankings on certain puzzle games.
And no one I am close to understands how much those things meant to me, or how hard they were. I can't even try to explain it to them, not really, because "hey, it's just a silly game" (I don't even try to explain the minesweeper thing). It's not so much that I want other people to appreciate or value, or even respect my accomplishments (although it would be nice). But having them look down on me for them is hard. I'm not ashamed, and I shouldn't have to feel like I should be.
Added at: 20:48
So the DLC isn't so much an addon, but a safety feature? Also seriously who in their right mind would buy that car?
Edit: Ok these last few posts are entirely too serious. To the Monty Python!
You know, though, you might be surprised. My brother is a nationally-ranked Super Smash Brothers player, and when I tell that to people -- even people that aren't gamers -- most think it's super cool. Don't be self-depreciating about what you're good at. Brag about how you kick ass at things, and how it's a HUGE deal in your circle, and lots of people will be impressed (unless you go on and on about it. Then they might get bored. Give them the reader's digest version). If you make it sound like it's not a big deal, then they definitely won't care, but seriously -- would you really rather people think you're mediocre?
ElJuski
Staff member
Dorkiness only exists in high-school, and if you choose to, your undergrad. After a while what you do is what you do, and how you play it off. Me? I use what nerdiness I have in a cutesy-wutsy way to get action. But I have no problems talking to people about shit like Pokemon or Buffy. It is possible to be socially acceptable to the mainstream and not be an awkward hobbyist goon.
Dave
Staff member
Word. I'm known at work as "that guy who still plays D&D." Yet it's strange how many of them have come up to me and talked about 3.5, 4e, and the upcoming 5e. Nobody thinks lesser of me for playing D&D yet these folks don't want it known that they play or have played. It boggles my mind. Dude, it's an exercise in imagination, strategic thinking, and socialization. What's to be ashamed of?