Funny (political, religious) pictures

GasBandit

Staff member
Sure, but that's not what I said. "They" will be corrupted. You will not. The language you use suggests superiority.
Who says I will not, given the same power? That's my point - it is the power that divides.

I argue that you are part of the problem in the first place that drives the people in government to become the other. You paint them the enemy, they conform to the role you've given them.
Oh, government has been embracing that role long before paint was invented.

And it is the very founding philosophy of this nation that power cannot be trusted, and thus must be kept minimum and spread as widely as possible. That's been part of the key to America's rise.
 
Who says I will not, given the same power? That's my point - it is the power that divides.
In which case, corporations, teachers, doctors, rich people, etc. cannot be trusted either. But you don't rail against those very often (well, maybe teachers sometimes). Power differentials will always exist, government being only one manifestation of that difference.

And it is the very founding philosophy of this nation that power cannot be trusted, and thus must be kept minimum and spread as widely as possible. That's been part of the key to America's rise.
As I've said before, World War II probably had a more profound impact on America's rise than the framing of the constitution. I'd also add a very large area of natural resources likely helped as well (which took 100 years to really start exploiting). That said, I agree with the first thing you stated, but that it ALSO requires buy-in from the people.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
In which case, corporations, teachers, doctors, rich people, etc. cannot be trusted either. But you don't rail against those very often (well, maybe teachers sometimes). Power differentials will always exist, government being only one manifestation of that difference.
You'll notice the times I have railed about teachers were when they were exerting governmental power. And yes, none of those people can be trusted with the level of power that has swollen in our government - because no matter the power of a corporation, government can still Ma Bell it.

As I've said before, World War II probably had a more profound impact on America's rise than the framing of the constitution. I'd also add a very large area of natural resources likely helped as well (which took 100 years to really start exploiting). That said, I agree with the first thing you stated, but that it ALSO requires buy-in from the people.
The US wouldn't have been in as good a position to exploit those resources or fight that war had it been saddled with the same level of bureaucracy then as it is now. For human endeavor to be most effective, it needs to be free to operate in its own self interest - with the caveat that it must not impinge on the rights of other individuals, which is where the necessity for government comes in. But beyond that, you know the old saw about a government being big enough to give you everything also being able to take it, and we're right in the middle of an object lesson at this very moment in what can and will happen when government has too much power - it inevitably gets abused.

It isn't folly for humans to distinguish between "us" and "them," it is biological. Our monkeysphere isn't even big enough to encompass each member of the house of representatives, much less everyone. Our representative form of government helps us deal with that a little, but it doesn't help them deal with us.
 
You'll notice the times I have railed about teachers were when they were exerting governmental power. And yes, none of those people can be trusted with the level of power that has swollen in our government - because no matter the power of a corporation, government can still Ma Bell it.
So you only target the biggest power differential (as you see it)? Damn all the others?

It isn't folly for humans to distinguish between "us" and "them," it is biological. Our monkeysphere isn't even big enough to encompass each member of the house of representatives, much less everyone. Our representative form of government helps us deal with that a little, but it doesn't help them deal with us.
I am down with the monkeysphere as a concept. I teach evolutionary psychology, after all. But I think that understanding the monkeysphere is necessary to help us think bigger than it, not to embrace it as an excuse for our small-mindedness.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
So you only target the biggest power differential (as you see it)? Damn all the others?
It will always be the biggest differential, as it is also most often the vehicle by which the others exert their will. So, keeping it as low as one can lowers the ceiling for the others. After all, why buy a senator when he can't get you results?

I am down with the monkeysphere as a concept. I teach evolutionary psychology, after all. But I think that understanding the monkeysphere is necessary to help us think bigger than it, not to embrace it as an excuse for our small-mindedness.
Well, that's laudable, but when it comes to group dynamics and mob mentality, I fear you're trying to bail out a pond with a thimble.
 
It will always be the biggest differential, as it is also most often the vehicle by which the others exert their will. So, keeping it as low as one can lowers the ceiling for the others. After all, why buy a senator when he can't get you results?
It probably will be, but that doesn't mean that other power differentials should be exempt from the exact same criticisms. If anything, you have less influence on Exxon than you do on the government, because you at least can vote, run for office, and much more. All you can do to Exxon is give them money or not. Also, corporations are more insular by design, making them predisposed to being an "other".

Well, that's laudable, but when it comes to group dynamics and mob mentality, I fear you're trying to bail out a pond with a thimble.
I'm only talking about you in this case. ;) I'm still probably trying to tilt windmills.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
It probably will be, but that doesn't mean that other power differentials should be exempt from the exact same criticisms. If anything, you have less influence on Exxon than you do on the government, because you at least can vote, run for office, and much more. All you can do to Exxon is give them money or not. Also, corporations are more insular by design, making them predisposed to being an "other".
As long as Exxon doesn't take action that infringes upon my rights, I don't care what they do. If they do, I expect the government to protect my rights, as that is its true purpose. However, if the government begins to infringe upon my rights, my only redress is via the government itself - and that is the proverbial fox guarding the henhouse.

I'm only talking about you in this case. ;) I'm still probably trying to tilt windmills.
Even if you were to convince me, there will be millions upon millions unaware of the concept, much less see it as something to rise above.
 
Everything's more expensive in Michigan, except housing. You know why housing is so much cheaper in michigan? Cause everybody fuckin left.
As we're so fond of saying around here, SE MI (Wayne/Oakland/Macomb counties) tends to unfairly skew the remainder of the state's stats due to holding fully 1/3 the state's entire population in just those three counties.
Also because we're surrounded on three sides by giant bodies of water, the only people who go north of I-94/I-96 are people who want peace and quiet, and that's mighty appealing to a lotta folk.

--Patrick
 
As we're so fond of saying around here, SE MI (Wayne/Oakland/Macomb counties) tends to unfairly skew the remainder of the state's stats due to holding fully 1/3 the state's entire population in just those three counties.
Also because we're surrounded on three sides by giant bodies of water, the only people who go north of I-94/I-96 are people who want peace and quiet, and that's mighty appealing to a lotta folk.

--Patrick
Wisconsin is similar. SE Wisconsin has the most people, a few in the south central with Madison and then very small everywhere else.
 
I would not kick Ivanka out of bed.

Nor would I kick Chelsea, now that I think about it, so maybe I'm not the best judge of such things.
 
And it is the very founding philosophy of this nation that power cannot be trusted, and thus must be kept minimum and spread as widely as possible. That's been part of the key to America's rise.

Well, not really... see the Whiskey Rebellion.

What they really did right was the whole separation of powers thing, where the 3 branches watch each other independently.

And seriously, you're going to claim minimal government is what made the US a world power, when every other example in history was the exact opposite, and you only actually became one after being forced into 2 total wars where your government basically employed everyone for the war effort?

If anything, it just made the US a more benevolent (well, less malevolent at least) world power... which is still pretty good really.[DOUBLEPOST=1490623153,1490623090][/DOUBLEPOST]
That's so racist... japs are just as capable of genocidal conquest as the rest of us normal people...
 

fade

Staff member


Patrick Stewart cosplaying as Kellyanne Conway.

Actually, he's not. He's just in drag. But scary.
 
Top