Funny (political, religious) pictures
- Thread starter strawman
- Start date
That's not the next verse. You don't get to join the choir.
Never said it was.
...and I can start my own choir! With Bartók! And Bruckners!
--Patrick
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I had considered posting exactly that, but decided it wasn't as subtly humourous.
But seeing how many more ratings your post got, I see I chose wrong.
Sorry I'm piggybacking on your punchline, but it was too good to let go. Although I wish I had spelled it "Nick'd".
https://www.halforums.com/threads/trump-regime-thread.32216/page-72#post-1363855
On the bright side, Fallout might be a LARP soon.
Applies both places really
Cell towers kill 10x as many birds. Cats 10,000x. Shall we ban those too?
From your link:
Bullshit. If you google the number of wind turbines, you get 52,000 in the USA alone. So each is only killing 4-8 birds each? Ya right. Doesn't pass the "smell" test.
Also, the point of the image is all you've done is added bird killers, not actually helped your cause, since you need the backup (base load) power plants too. They're just less economically viable since they need to be staffed an maintained at all times, but aren't producing (making money) all the time. Thus energy is more expensive. This plays out on a national scale too:
...Are you really arguing that renewable power is so intermittent and unreliable you need the full base load in back up traditional generators running at all times? That's ridiculous.[DOUBLEPOST=1502375029,1502374740][/DOUBLEPOST]To expand just a little further, at least for the three countries I know a little about the power situation and can talk about intelligently - Belgium, Denmark and Germany - a big problem is that there's a whole lot of new energy being installed, but old plants haven't been decommissioned yet. I'm personally all in favor of (modern) nucelar power, but that doesn't help the fact that Belgium has 4 nuclear power generators that date back to the '70s and '80s and just plain need to close down because they're so expensive. Once there's enough renewable, they'll be closed down...And their kWh price is a whole lot above that being supplied by windmill parks in the North Sea.
Short answer: yes it IS that unreliable. The whole problem in Australia is that they had WEEKS of no wind combined with high temperatures. Even the battery backup would need to be ENORMOUS to fulfill that kind of "store it up" potential. This is why wind/solar was fine to be connected at low percentages, but as soon as it starts getting to significant percentages of the TOTAL capacity (not percent provided at peak, percent total) you have problems fulfilling your peak when there is no wind/sun/etc.
The trick isn't necessarily to say "our batteries can provide all the power needed when the wind dies down!" That's fine, but for how long can it do it? If you mandated "any renewables need to have 2 weeks of their power output fully available when there is no resource" then you'd suddenly see ALL of the (non-hydro) projects go away, as it's not economic at that point (hydro builds this in. It's called the reservoir behind the dam). They RELY on the fact that the rest of the grid exists to "make up" for their shortcomings.
I figured you were going to nitpick the article to death. Refresh my memory, which part of the energy sector are you attached to again?
The wind isn't going away. Not like coal or gas. Once it's gone, it's gone. And so are the jobs that surrounded it. Full disclosure: I have no love for the extraction industries. I've seen first hand the damage it can do when a community or business gets too attached and has no plan for how to survive without it. My mom's hometown is gone. As in GONE. Not a single building remains. It went from 2500 people to abandoned in less than a decade. The stress of losing two jobs in the space of three years thanks to the failures of the coal industry killed my dad when I was 17. He never went into the mines, but he was just as dead as if he had been is a cave-in. Hotels that were once filled with gas field and power plant workers now sit empty or even closed after construction ended or the wells went idle. But the owners blame the hotel employees for the lack of business.
I live in a state so attached to the extraction industries, the governor's literal answer to everything, including domestic abuse and the opioid crisis is just "coal jobs." The head of the department of natural resources has gone on record as saying WV has nothing going for it but coal. Now THAT, neighbor, is bullshit piled high and wide.
So yeah, I'm biased. The cartoon was nothing more than "turbines kill birds." It didn't need or deserve a dissertation to back it up.
The wind isn't going away. Not like coal or gas. Once it's gone, it's gone. And so are the jobs that surrounded it. Full disclosure: I have no love for the extraction industries. I've seen first hand the damage it can do when a community or business gets too attached and has no plan for how to survive without it. My mom's hometown is gone. As in GONE. Not a single building remains. It went from 2500 people to abandoned in less than a decade. The stress of losing two jobs in the space of three years thanks to the failures of the coal industry killed my dad when I was 17. He never went into the mines, but he was just as dead as if he had been is a cave-in. Hotels that were once filled with gas field and power plant workers now sit empty or even closed after construction ended or the wells went idle. But the owners blame the hotel employees for the lack of business.
I live in a state so attached to the extraction industries, the governor's literal answer to everything, including domestic abuse and the opioid crisis is just "coal jobs." The head of the department of natural resources has gone on record as saying WV has nothing going for it but coal. Now THAT, neighbor, is bullshit piled high and wide.
So yeah, I'm biased. The cartoon was nothing more than "turbines kill birds." It didn't need or deserve a dissertation to back it up.
figmentPez
Staff member
Those numbers match those from the Audubon Society. "Wind turbines kill an estimated 140,000 to 328,000 birds each year in North America, making it the most threatening form of green energy." Granted, those are only numbers from monopole turbines, but no one is building new lattice style turbines.
I'm not sure why you think any individual tower should be killing more than a half-dozen birds each.
Windmills on migratory routes kill a metric fuckton more (and are the source for those "piles of dead birds underneath a windmill that have to be trucked away" pictures you can find on line), in a fairly short period of time.
I think "half a dozen or so" is a decent estimate for normal windmills not on migration routes, though, and in Europe at least, there's already legislation being drafted to make it illegal to put turbines on migration routes. With the obvious problem of defining what and where migration routes are.
figmentPez
Staff member
Fair enough, I should have said "the average" rather than "any individual".
I don't think anyone here supports killing birds.
My problem with the image isn't that it's incorrect, those are true problems that need to be addressed. My problem with images like that (other then not really having a joke?) is that they dismiss the issue in a way that implies we should have just kept things how they were (see the old way was better hurp derp!), rather then finding a solution to the problem that is both taking into account the needs of the surrounding ecosystem while also providing clean power for those that need it, which in the long run is also going to be better for the planet as a whole.
My problem with the image isn't that it's incorrect, those are true problems that need to be addressed. My problem with images like that (other then not really having a joke?) is that they dismiss the issue in a way that implies we should have just kept things how they were (see the old way was better hurp derp!), rather then finding a solution to the problem that is both taking into account the needs of the surrounding ecosystem while also providing clean power for those that need it, which in the long run is also going to be better for the planet as a whole.
I support the genocide of modern broilers.
Dave
Staff member
How fucking dumb are birds? I mean, yeah there are big rotating blades, but they aren't exactly chasing them down. It's not like they are giant windmill ninjas running amok. I think it's less of a case of "bird murder" (which is a dick move) but is instead "Mass bird suicide".[DOUBLEPOST=1502384572,1502384047][/DOUBLEPOST]
So that's what it takes to get conservatives to care about the environment.
