K
Kitty Sinatra
Dude. Did you just suggest drowning illegal immigrants? Not cool, man.
Not cool.
Not cool.
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You bet it's not. "Such stories are common" my French-speaking ass.Frankie said:
If I have to get sick or injured, as it were--well, let's just say I'm relieved I'm Canadian. Completely anecdotally, I've only seen our system work. For me, for my children, for my family and friends. I know it's not perfect, and I know there are aberrant stories. But fuck-ups happen everywhere.
Interestingly, in the other forum I frequent, we keep getting first-hand accounts of health care horror stories from Americans.
Are you....are you REALLY suggesting to listen to OLIVER NORTH on potential abuse of power? Really? Please tell me you are joking. In case anyone doesn't know, Oliver North was a key player in the Iran-Contra scandal, where (in direct violation of Congress and the law) he and others sold arms to Iran and then turned around and gave that money to the Contras, a rather despicable group. He was eventually convicted of 16 felony counts, although he did not serve any jail time because he recieved immunity in exchange for testifying in front of Congress. This guy is who you're going to hang your hat on? Seriously?GasBandit said:
On the side that waterboarding IS torture, we have dozens of US court cases, the victims of the Khamar Rogue, John McCain, Jesse Ventura, and pretty much everyone else who's undergone waterboarding, including that one shock jock who had wanted to prove that it wasn't torture. Versus Oliver North. I know which side I'm on.
Oh ho ho, calling this a "fraud" when you hate it so much when people say Bush lied? Well, the phrase in question is certainly spin. There is no way to measure jobs saved. But this doesn't mean that it's a "fraud" - there are many economic models one can use to estimate jobs saved. He's not just pulling numbers out of thin air. I'm not saying I love the fact that Obama's using spin, but he IS a politician.
The agents went into the immigrants' homes without warrents, probable cause, or their consent. Ummm, yea, their constitutional rights have been violated. My god, do you not believe in the fourth amendment any more? Also, what the fuck does this have to do with ID cards? This case would be thrown out regardless of the ID cards.
What a badly written article. You have to read to the end that an SUV is only more green than a commuter train IF the SUV is completly full (with an SUV, that means seven people) and the train is only a quarter full. Raise your hand if you're car pooling to work with six other people.
Unfortuantly, in reality, the vast majority of people in cars (SUV or not) are driving by themselves, or at most with one other person. Sure, car pooling is great for the environment, and it should certainly be encouraged. And the larger point of the article (that when thinking green you have to take everything into account, such as the cost of building and maintaining roads and railways) is true. But to suggest that SUVs are more green than commuter trains based on a completely unrealistic assumption is ludacris.
Sure, PayGo is something of a gimmick. Congress can just vote to override it when it wants to. But there is a cost to such a vote - it makes it harder for the government it add to the deficit. PayGo was in effect from 1990-2002. That time period was also the best in deficit reduction since at least the 1960s. Now, obviously, PayGo is not completely, or even mostly, responsible for this. But it helped.
GasBandit
Staff member
That Oliver North changes nothing about the debate on it, really. I just included it to raise your blood pressure.Dieb said:
Oh ho ho, calling this a "fraud" when you hate it so much when people say Bush lied? Well, the phrase in question is certainly spin. There is no way to measure jobs saved. But this doesn't mean that it's a "fraud" - there are many economic models one can use to estimate jobs saved. He's not just pulling numbers out of thin air. I'm not saying I love the fact that Obama's using spin, but he IS a politician.[/quote:3vw5r59d]I'm not exactly chanting "Obama lied, my mortgage died, no blood for windfarms" here. I'm just calling an untruth an untruth.
The agents went into the immigrants' homes without warrents, probable cause, or their consent. Ummm, yea, their constitutional rights have been violated. My god, do you not believe in the fourth amendment any more? Also, what the fuck does this have to do with ID cards? This case would be thrown out regardless of the ID cards.[/quote:3vw5r59d]
I'd say if their government-issued ID data shows them to be illegally in the country, that constitutes probable cause, wouldn't you?The Oxford Companion to American Law said:
Ha, well, don't worry about me, my blood pressure is the extremely low end of healty, actually. But it IS in the healthy range; no need to try to raise it, although I appreaciate the gestureGasBandit said:
Saying something is an untruth is a lot different than calling it a fraud. And I don't even think this rises to the level of untruth.
Once again, the judge disagrees with you. Probably because "the agents went into both homes looking for specific illegal immigrants on a "target list," who weren't found, court documents say". The agents were there for other people, didn't find them, so just arrested whomever they found there. The had no probable cause to believe that these people were illegal immigrants before they barged into their houses. It looks like a obvious violation of the fourth amendment and, hey, someone impartial who knows far more about the facts of the case and the law at hand than you or I agrees.
GasBandit said:
I'd say if their government-issued ID data shows them to be illegally in the country, that constitutes probable cause, wouldn't you?[/quote:219g0qmo]The Oxford Companion to American Law said:
But they already denied that it was the cards that tipped them off, so if they really HAD been planning this for months, they'd have had warrants for everyone inside. I'm all for booting illegals back home... I'm even for armed guards watching the border to keep them out... hell, I'm even for revoking the US citizenship of anyone who knowingly helps them get in... but no warrant means an illegal arrest, which means we have to let them go.
Besides, Double Jeopardy won't attach to the case if it gets thrown out, so it should be a simple matter to get the warrants and show up the next day/hours later and arrest them again. It would be a dick move, but it'd at least be legal.
A
Armadillo
Yeah, it's kind of hard to revoke citizenship you were born with. Where would you deport them to, Detroit?
Other countries exile people all the time. It's not exactly hard... you just send them to a country that will take them or dump them on a boat in international waters, and revoke their citizenship. They come back, you do it again or you execute them.Frankie said:
It may in fact be that, which is probably why these people get to keep in business.A Troll said:
While my surgery wasn't entirely necessary as yours was, I've had a few operations done on my right ear to re-build it's appearance and improve my hearing. I met the doctor, then in less than two weeks I was already on the operating table. After a requisite period to recover - about 2-3 months - I was already scheduling another operation.Frankie said:
I'm quite content with our healthcare system, though I won't deny it could use some more improvements.
K
Kitty Sinatra
You'll be waiting a long time. Shego keeps getting stopped at the border.Lamont said:
http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/politic ... e_Takeover
The New York Senate has been taken over by the GOP. Through party hopping, no less.
Look. My leanings may swing a bit more towards the conservative side. But I think that this is plain undemocratic.
And about the link being from fox, I just inserted the first link that appeared on google.
The New York Senate has been taken over by the GOP. Through party hopping, no less.
Look. My leanings may swing a bit more towards the conservative side. But I think that this is plain undemocratic.
And about the link being from fox, I just inserted the first link that appeared on google.
K
Kitty Sinatra
Holy crap. I'm reminded once again just how Two-Party system the US is. Even at the state level, across all the states, it's the same 2 parties controlling y'all? Really? Please tell me that NY's GOP only shares its name with Bush's GOP, not funding, organization and all the other shit that makes up a political party.Futureking said:
No, the Republicans and Democrats are both national organizations that share the same leadership, funding, and what have you at all levels.Gruebeard said:
And yet most Americans will gladly and honestly proclaim their country to be the World's Finest and Foremost Democracy.
:tongue:
(hint: an established two-party system is hardly any better than a one-party system. A system where new parties, representing new ideas, actually stand a chance, is far more democratic in the long run)
:tongue:
(hint: an established two-party system is hardly any better than a one-party system. A system where new parties, representing new ideas, actually stand a chance, is far more democratic in the long run)
GasBandit
Staff member
Instant Runoff Elections would fix all this two-party BS.
Ok Links -
First, the obvious everybody's already talking about: Iran in Chaos
North Korea says it plans to weaponize everything it's got.
Nearly 700,000 people called a government hot line this week, upset that they couldn't watch Entertainment Tonight or Jerry Springer because of the digital conversion. If we're looking for people that need to be removed from the voter rolls, I'd say we can start with this list. If you were dumb enough to miss the constantly spammed notifications for the digital switch (and how to get a coupon for a converter box, no less), you're too dumb to have a voice in the future of the country, IMO.
As of right now, the Democrats don't have the votes to pass Obama's government-run health insurance plan.
Some of the projects to 'stimulate the economy' are completely bogus.
They're apparently thinking about just bulldozing Michigan and starting over.
How to fix health care, save 5 trillion dollars, and yet retain personal liberty.
Can Hugo Chavez survive in power now that he has upset the local unions? Some predict that social upheaval is around the corner.
The UK spends over $80 million a year translating documents that absolutely no one reads.
Ok Links -
First, the obvious everybody's already talking about: Iran in Chaos
North Korea says it plans to weaponize everything it's got.
Nearly 700,000 people called a government hot line this week, upset that they couldn't watch Entertainment Tonight or Jerry Springer because of the digital conversion. If we're looking for people that need to be removed from the voter rolls, I'd say we can start with this list. If you were dumb enough to miss the constantly spammed notifications for the digital switch (and how to get a coupon for a converter box, no less), you're too dumb to have a voice in the future of the country, IMO.
As of right now, the Democrats don't have the votes to pass Obama's government-run health insurance plan.
Some of the projects to 'stimulate the economy' are completely bogus.
They're apparently thinking about just bulldozing Michigan and starting over.
How to fix health care, save 5 trillion dollars, and yet retain personal liberty.
Can Hugo Chavez survive in power now that he has upset the local unions? Some predict that social upheaval is around the corner.
The UK spends over $80 million a year translating documents that absolutely no one reads.
GasBandit
Staff member
Nothing, hm? Well, OK then... moving on.
Yesterday the protests in Iran turned deadly. Pro-government militia opened fire on protestors in Tehran killing one man and wounding others.
A recent Gallup polls shows that 40% of Americans describe themselves as conservative. Only 21% of Americans call themselves liberal and 35% consider themselves moderate.
So not wanting the government to be involved in my healthcare decisions suddenly makes me a fear-monger.
A group of lawmakers asked the IRS to stop imposing "excessive penalties" on small businesses that use questionable tax shelters.
Obama pitched his healthcare reform to the American Medical Association yesterday. He got booed.
Great Britain is pissed at the Obama administration after failing to consult Britain over the transfer of four Guantanamo detainees to Bermuda. Meanwhile, take a look at how these are now living in Bermuda. Not bad.
Drama at Langley.
Barack Obama says that the upfront costs of healthcare reform will pay for itself in the long-term. But history says that will not be the case.
Study: Politicians share traits with serial killers.
The United States is going to give China "financial and technological assistance" in order to help it fight climate change.
As the Senate's top Democrat pushes for expansion of federal hate crime laws, the Holocaust museum shooter has yet to be charged with a hate crime.
Here it is ... the Congressional Budget Office released its estimate on the Dodd-Kennedy healthcare bill, and it is going to cost well over $1 trillion. But wait, that doesn't even include the cost of Obama's government-run insurance plan. Uh oh.
Yesterday the protests in Iran turned deadly. Pro-government militia opened fire on protestors in Tehran killing one man and wounding others.
A recent Gallup polls shows that 40% of Americans describe themselves as conservative. Only 21% of Americans call themselves liberal and 35% consider themselves moderate.
So not wanting the government to be involved in my healthcare decisions suddenly makes me a fear-monger.
A group of lawmakers asked the IRS to stop imposing "excessive penalties" on small businesses that use questionable tax shelters.
Obama pitched his healthcare reform to the American Medical Association yesterday. He got booed.
Great Britain is pissed at the Obama administration after failing to consult Britain over the transfer of four Guantanamo detainees to Bermuda. Meanwhile, take a look at how these are now living in Bermuda. Not bad.
Drama at Langley.
Barack Obama says that the upfront costs of healthcare reform will pay for itself in the long-term. But history says that will not be the case.
Study: Politicians share traits with serial killers.
The United States is going to give China "financial and technological assistance" in order to help it fight climate change.
As the Senate's top Democrat pushes for expansion of federal hate crime laws, the Holocaust museum shooter has yet to be charged with a hate crime.
Here it is ... the Congressional Budget Office released its estimate on the Dodd-Kennedy healthcare bill, and it is going to cost well over $1 trillion. But wait, that doesn't even include the cost of Obama's government-run insurance plan. Uh oh.
Wow. That was a terrible, terrible blog post. Simply awful.GasBandit said:
Hmmm. On the surface this is a good article, but while the guy has a lot to say bad about the Democratic plans he also makes some base assumptions about the benevolence of the insurance companies. He calls for a dissolution of Medicare & Medicaid and then says that this slack will be taken up by individual patients. the problem with this is that the gap between one ending and the other becoming affordable will ensure that millions of people will be at risk. This plan would RUIN more people than it would save.GasBandit said:
Not a bad comparison at all. He's proving why your post was as misleading as a normal Fox News headline. (Or MSNBC headline slanted the other direction.) You never bothered to state that it was the only thing they booed and that the rest of the time he got standing ovations.GasBandit said:
Personally, I disagree with his plan, but your headline is misleading as hell. On purpose because you are evil and just trying to stir up shit.
GasBandit
Staff member
Now that the CBO has panned the Kennedy health bill, the white house can't paddle away from it fast enough.
GOP aide forwards around racist joke in e-mail, causes furor.
Democrat house leadership, frustrated with republicans taking "too much time" to debate amendments to war funding bill (one of which happened to be a proposed amendment calling for probes into ACORN funding and the CIA-Pelosi stuff), announced at 6:30 pm that there would be no more votes that night. The republicans (and some democrats) went home... and then at 8:20 the DHL called for the votes. The vote was over by 9, 131 representatives didn't get back in time (or at all) to vote. I guess when due process gets in the way of ramrodding an agenda, it's just chucked out.
This is humorous ...HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius says that the insurance lobby won't be able to block a government health plan because most Americans realize they would be better off if the industry had competition. There are currently 1300 insurance providing entities out there... the 1301st is going to be the the one that brings competition to the mix, especially when it starts putting the others out of business because it is the only one to receive subsidies?
Jimmy Carter wants the Obama administration to remove Hamas from the terrorist list.
Economist Nouriel Roubini believes that there is a significant risk that the US could experience a double-dip recession.
According to Rasmussen, 80% of Americans want the Obama administration to sell its stake in GM and Chrysler ASAP.
ABC has decided what side of its bread has the butter.
When it comes to voting, 83% of Americans support the idea of checking photo IDs in order to vote ... the Justice Department, however, disagrees. The Justice Department, you see, is controlled by Democrats.
GOP aide forwards around racist joke in e-mail, causes furor.
Democrat house leadership, frustrated with republicans taking "too much time" to debate amendments to war funding bill (one of which happened to be a proposed amendment calling for probes into ACORN funding and the CIA-Pelosi stuff), announced at 6:30 pm that there would be no more votes that night. The republicans (and some democrats) went home... and then at 8:20 the DHL called for the votes. The vote was over by 9, 131 representatives didn't get back in time (or at all) to vote. I guess when due process gets in the way of ramrodding an agenda, it's just chucked out.
This is humorous ...HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius says that the insurance lobby won't be able to block a government health plan because most Americans realize they would be better off if the industry had competition. There are currently 1300 insurance providing entities out there... the 1301st is going to be the the one that brings competition to the mix, especially when it starts putting the others out of business because it is the only one to receive subsidies?
Jimmy Carter wants the Obama administration to remove Hamas from the terrorist list.
Economist Nouriel Roubini believes that there is a significant risk that the US could experience a double-dip recession.
According to Rasmussen, 80% of Americans want the Obama administration to sell its stake in GM and Chrysler ASAP.
ABC has decided what side of its bread has the butter.
When it comes to voting, 83% of Americans support the idea of checking photo IDs in order to vote ... the Justice Department, however, disagrees. The Justice Department, you see, is controlled by Democrats.
K
Kitty Sinatra
Stupid stupid writing:GasBandit said:
It's trying to say that Republican tend to opposes this more, but if we do the math (100%-Democrats in favor) we get 55% opposed, which is 9% higher than the Republicans. This isn't likely true because there were probably a significant number of "undecideds" but there's no way to know this from the idiot's writing. Compare the same fucking values! Ugh.
Anyway, yeah. Most Americans should be in favor of dumping the stocks ASAP. That's the plan, anyway. When that time comes is really far more important, though. Like with Iraq, they can't pull out too quickly without ruining the plan.
There was a plan?!?Gruebeard said:
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