Gas Bandit's Political Thread IV

[GasBandit]

Obama dances around a de-facto "No, under my plan, we would not have given your grandmother a pacemaker because she's so old, just let her die."

Obama: "You know, it's not right to kill and maim protesters." Ahmedinejad: "Dammit, you're just like that Bush asshole after all! NO TALKS FOR JOO!"

Barack Obama wants to emulate the Spanish model for creating "green jobs." George Will explains why this is humorous.

The number of Americans filing for unemployment benefits rose unexpectedly last week.

The Obama administration needs to come up with a measly $20 billion in order to keep highway construction projects afloat.

Russians have erected a billboard of Joseph Stalin to promote his methods as the best remedy for the world economic crisis.

What's worse than drinking and driving?

 

[AshburnerX]

Obama: "You know, it's not right to kill and maim protesters." Ahmedinejad: "Dammit, you're just like that Bush asshole after all! NO TALKS FOR JOO!"

He's just blowing air out of his ass... he never had ANY intentions to talk to us. Besides, I honestly don't believe Bush would have cared about killing protesters, considering some of the other asinine things he did during his presidency. Free Speech Zones, anyone?

The Obama administration needs to come up with a measly $20 billion in order to keep highway construction projects afloat.

We need less highways and more rail anyway.

 

[GasBandit]

Obama: "You know, it's not right to kill and maim protesters." Ahmedinejad: "Dammit, you're just like that Bush asshole after all! NO TALKS FOR JOO!"

He's just blowing air out of his ass... he never had ANY intentions to talk to us. Besides, I honestly don't believe Bush would have cared about killing protesters, considering some of the other asinine things he did during his presidency. Free Speech Zones, anyone?

That's not true. If Bush wanted protesters killed, he had plenty of opportunity to do so over that 8 year period. Bush didn't do a very good job as president, especially for one who was supposed to be conservative, but he was not actively malevolent. I don't think Obama is, either. They just have different ideas of what constitutes the best thing to be trying to achieve. And you could have bet it wouldn't have taken a week for Bush to decide to say something about people being beaten and shot in the streets.

But you're right that Ahmedinejad never had any intention of playing ball.

 

[AshburnerX]

Obama: "You know, it's not right to kill and maim protesters." Ahmedinejad: "Dammit, you're just like that Bush asshole after all! NO TALKS FOR JOO!"

He's just blowing air out of his ass... he never had ANY intentions to talk to us. Besides, I honestly don't believe Bush would have cared about killing protesters, considering some of the other asinine things he did during his presidency. Free Speech Zones, anyone?

That's not true. If Bush wanted protesters killed, he had plenty of opportunity to do so over that 8 year period. Bush didn't do a very good job as president, especially for one who was supposed to be conservative, but he was not actively malevolent. I don't think Obama is, either. They just have different ideas of what constitutes the best thing to be trying to achieve. And you could have bet it wouldn't have taken a week for Bush to decide to say something about people being beaten and shot in the streets.

But you're right that Ahmedinejad never had any intention of playing ball.

Your right... why blame his actions on malevolence, when it's far, far simpler to blame them on incompetence!

 

[GasBandit]

 

[Dieb]

Obama: "You know, it's not right to kill and maim protesters." Ahmedinejad: "Dammit, you're just like that Bush * after all! NO TALKS FOR JOO!"

He's just blowing air out of his a**... he never had ANY intentions to talk to us. Besides, I honestly don't believe Bush would have cared about killing protesters, considering some of the other asinine things he did during his presidency. Free Speech Zones, anyone?

That's not true. If Bush wanted protesters killed, he had plenty of opportunity to do so over that 8 year period. Bush didn't do a very good job as president, especially for one who was supposed to be conservative, but he was not actively malevolent. I don't think Obama is, either. They just have different ideas of what constitutes the best thing to be trying to achieve.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Free Speach Zones are stupid and wrong, but they're a hell of a lot better than actually killing demonstrators. Those two things are just not compareable.

And you could have bet it wouldn't have taken a week for Bush to decide to say something about people being beaten and shot in the streets.

Demonstratably not true. Here's the key quote, spoken on Monday June 15th:

"Having said all that, I am deeply troubled by the violence that I've been seeing on television. I think that the democratic process -- free speech, the ability of people to peacefully dissent -- all those are universal values and need to be respected. And whenever I see violence perpetrated on people who are peacefully dissenting, and whenever the American people see that, I think they're, rightfully, troubled."

Note that this was only the third day after the elections. The previous two were over the weekend. Moreover, the violence had only started the day before he made those remarks, with the invasion of Tehran University during the night. Neda, for example, wasn't killed until five days later. Sure, none of this has prevented the neocons from lambasting Obama for not "speaking out against the violence" but, well, it's simply not true. Please don't repeat their lies.

But you're right that Ahmedinejad never had any intention of playing ball.

Ahmedinejad doesn't matter. Repeat after me: Ahmedinejad doesn't matter. If the events of the past few weeks have shown us anything, it's that. Khatami matters. That is to say, he matters as long as the thugs in power manage to beat the dissent into silence (which, sadly, is what the short term outcome is starting to look like).

 

[JCM]

 

[GasBandit]

The Cap and Trade tax hike and economic suicide pill passed the house 219-212. The real kicker here? Eight republicans voted for it. Talk about an incompetent party completely in shambles.

Axelrod couldn't be pinned down to saying that the middle class healthcare wouldn't be taxed... but at least we have assurances that union workers won't have to worry about it, since they already shoulder the heavy burden of economically castrating the nation.

California state assembly speaker Karen Bass calls conservative talk radio "terrorism." It's double plus ungood!

There's something noteworthy going on in Honduras, incindentally. And Hugo Chavez is saying we had a hand in it.

Another great column from George Will about Americans' unreasonable expectations on healthcare costs and how we will regret "fixing" the system.

Iranian authorities have cracked down on protestors; thousands are in jail and hundreds of people are missing.

North Korea announced it can enrich uranium, which is a simpler method to build nuclear weapons than reprocessing plutonium.

Thomas Sowell explores how more Americans can consider themselves "conservative" and yet the Republican Party has nothing going for it. Long story short: Republicans have no spine and no convictions when it comes to being actually conservative.

The Obama administration appears to be considering issuing an executive order to govern the indefinite imprisonment of alleged Al Qaeda operatives.

Today the Supreme Court will decide its final three cases, including Sonia Sotomayor's firefighter discrimination case.

The truth about the cost of Massachusetts healthcare program isn't helping the Barack Obama camp right now.

Here's why Barney Frank's plan to relax mortgage standards on new condos is a disaster waiting to happen.

States are having a tough time finding the funds to pay for unemployment benefits and some are expected to borrow up to $17 billion by next year.

 

Today the Supreme Court will decide its final three cases, including Sonia Sotomayor's firefighter discrimination case.

One down. They voted in favor of the whit guys in the firefighter case. It was 5-4 while the majority when Sotomayor voted in appellate court was 7-6. I fail to see why Republicans are trying to use this case against her as it was so close in all levels. But they will.

I'm just glad they heard it before she got seated as it would be a travesty of injustice (in my mind) to have the same person vote against it in appellate and Supreme courts.

 

[Dieb]

The Cap and Trade tax hike and economic suicide pill passed the house 219-212.

Oh come on, what an exaggeration. The Cap and Trade bill is supposed to, at the most, make GDP 100 years from now be 1% lower than it would be without the bill. Sure, that's a hell of a lot of money. And you can certainly argue that the potential benefits are not worth it. But to call it an "economic suicide pill" is just wrong.

California state assembly speaker Karen Bass calls conservative talk radio "terrorism." It's double plus ungood!

Oh god, what a moron.

There's something noteworthy going on in Honduras, incindentally. And Hugo Chavez is saying we had a hand in it.

The situation in Honduras is pretty damn complex. The President there was trying to have people vote on a constitutional assembly that could change the constitution so that he could run for another (or for many more) terms. Their Supreme Court declared this unconstituional. Their President was going to go through with it anyway. So you could certainly see his actions as a soft coup. However, I, for one, can never really support the miltary of a country removing a democratically elected leader, even if they do have justification. That's clearly a coup. That's certainly how Obama sees it - he immediatley denounced it, and US officials have called it a coup and said the only president America recognizes is the deposed one. So yea, Chavez is wrong, yet again. We clearly had no hand in it.

Another great column from George Will about Americans' unreasonable expectations on healthcare costs and how we will regret "fixing" the system.

George Will is making the wrong comparison. Sure, health care has improved dramatically since the 1960's, and it makes sense that we'd have to pay more to get that benefit. However, we pay TWICE as much as any other western country, and we get NO extra benefit from that extra cost. Health care outcomes in the US are actually a bit worse than those in other western countries, despite all the extra spending we do. If you don't think that's fucked up, and that reform is needed (even if you disagree about the specifics of reform), well, I'm not sure how we could even have a discussion about this.

However, I did love the line "The president says the health care market "has not worked perfectly." Indeed. Only God, supposedly, and Wrigley Field, actually, are perfect". That made be laugh.

I'm just glad they heard it before she got seated as it would be a travesty of injustice (in my mind) to have the same person vote against it in appellate and Supreme courts.

That would never happen. She would recuse herself (ie, not vote or participate in any way) if any case she ruled on as an appellate judge came before the Supreme Court while she was a justice there. For example, when Roberts was an appallete judge, he ruled on Hamdan v Rumsfeld, which only got considered by the Supreme Court after Roberts had become Chief Justice. He therefore recused himself from the case, which is why only eight justices ruled on it (it was a 5-3 decision).

 

[zero]

There's something noteworthy going on in Honduras, incindentally.

"Honduras Defends Its Democracy".

Yes, and they are doing so by instituting a curfew and having the military take over tv and radio stations.

Gas, somehow the kind of thing you defend still manages to shock me.

 

[zero]

The situation in Honduras is pretty damn complex. The President there was trying to have people vote on a constitutional assembly that could change the constitution so that he could run for another (or for many more) terms.

Yes, well, just to clarify on your wording...

The president was calling a no-binding public referendum to consult the people on whether to call or not a new constitutional assembly to make amends to their constitution. The referendum would have NO binding power, regardless of its result, and there would be NO public vote on the matter of re-election.

In fact, it's not clear to me why such referendum is unconstitutional... I'm not an expert on Honduran constitutional law though...

 

[Dieb]

The situation in Honduras is pretty damn complex. The President there was trying to have people vote on a constitutional assembly that could change the constitution so that he could run for another (or for many more) terms.

Yes, well, just to clarify on your wording...

The president was calling a no-binding public referendum to consult the people on whether to call or not a new constitutional assembly to make amends to their constitution. The referendum would have NO binding power, regardless of its result, and there would be NO public vote on the matter of re-election.

In fact, it's not clear to me why such referendum is unconstitutional... I'm not an expert on Honduran constitutional law though...

No, true, you're right, it was supposed to be a non-binding referendum. I'm obviously no expert on Honduran constitutional law either, but I figure hey, their Supreme Court probably is But clearly the miltary stepping in is unacceptable.

 

[GasBandit]

Opposed to the Cap and Trade bill? Treason! Against... against the country AND THE WORLD!

Senator James Inhofe is calling for an investigation into the report that was suppressed by the EPA because it didn't fit with the administration's agenda for climate change.

Here's a prime example of what happens when the government gets into the business of providing subsidies for alternative fuels.

The Obama administration continues to move the goal posts on stimulus.

Did you know that the biggest beneficiary of the government's bank rescue program isn't even a bank?

An Oklahoma legislator blames the current economic climate on .... Gays? Oh gawd, here we go. YOU KNOW WHAT STUART? I LIKE YOU. YOU'RE NOT LIKE THE OTHER FOLKS HERE IN THE TRAILER PARK. TAKE A LOOK AT THE SOIL AROUND DEMOINES, STUART. YOU CAN'T BUILD ANYTHING ON IT. YOU CAN'T GROW ANYTHING IN IT. THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT'S DUE TO POOR FARMING PRACTICES, BUT I KNOW WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON. IT'S THE QUEERS! THEY'RE IN IT WITH THE ALIENS! BUILDING LANDING STRIPS FOR GAY MARTIANS! I SWEAR TO GOD!

Turns out that the CBO forgot to calculate the economic impact of imposing billions in new operating and production costs with this cap-and-trade legislation.

No one in the state of Virginia can get painkillers right now because someone hacked into the state's prescription drug database.

Nine out of ten people in Great Britain are worried that the government is going to cut healthcare services. Duhhhh. Speaking of which, the government in Great Britain is promising patients 'enforceable rights' to high standards of care.

Nancy Pelosi will not commit to giving the public five days (as the Obama administration promised) to read the healthcare bill before it is voted on. Lot of that seems to be going on so far.

Only 10% of Massachusetts voters say the quality of health care has gotten better as a result of their reform plan, according to Rasmussen.

 

[Shakey]

Good lord, is the Minnesota Senate election finally decided?

 

[Krisken]

An Oklahoma legislator blames the current economic climate on .... Gays? Oh gawd, here we go. YOU KNOW WHAT STUART? I LIKE YOU. YOU'RE NOT LIKE THE OTHER FOLKS HERE IN THE TRAILER PARK. TAKE A LOOK AT THE SOIL AROUND DEMOINES, STUART. YOU CAN'T BUILD ANYTHING ON IT. YOU CAN'T GROW ANYTHING IN IT. THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT'S DUE TO POOR FARMING PRACTICES, BUT I KNOW WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON. IT'S THE *! THEY'RE IN IT WITH THE ALIENS! BUILDING LANDING STRIPS FOR GAY MARTIANS! I SWEAR TO GOD!

I like you Stuart, you're not like the other people, here, in the trailer park.

 

[Armadillo]

Good lord, is the Minnesota Senate election finally decided?

Al Franken's our senator. Jesus Christ...

 

[Espy]

Good lord, is the Minnesota Senate election finally decided?

Al Franken's our senator. Jesus Christ...

Well, not like Norm was doing us any favors but Franken is... well... a nut.

 

[Armadillo]

Good lord, is the Minnesota Senate election finally decided?

Al Franken's our senator. Jesus Christ...

Well, not like Norm was doing us any favors but Franken is... well... a nut.

At least Norm wouldn't have given the Dems a filibuster-proof majority. (shudder)

Given the chance to do it again, I'd still vote for Barkley.

 

[Shakey]

Good lord, is the Minnesota Senate election finally decided?

Al Franken's our senator. Jesus Christ...

Well, not like Norm was doing us any favors but Franken is... well... a nut.

At least Norm wouldn't have given the Dems a filibuster-proof majority. (shudder)

Given the chance to do it again, I'd still vote for Barkley.

Same here. Doesn't sound like we're done with Norm though. He's thinking about running for Governor next year.

 

[Iaculus]

Good lord, is the Minnesota Senate election finally decided?

Al Franken's our senator. Jesus Christ...

Well, not like Norm was doing us any favors but Franken is... well... a nut.

At least Norm wouldn't have given the Dems a filibuster-proof majority. (shudder)

Given the chance to do it again, I'd still vote for Barkley.

A filibuster-proof majority of one person? Sounds pretty tenuous to me.

Even with the Senate leadership applying pressure, it's not as if every Democrat senator's always going to be pointed in the same direction.

It gives the Dems an advantage, but far from an insurmountable one - and let's face it, filibustering may be a useful tool in certain circumstances, but it's a really cheap way to block a piece of legislation.

 

[GasBandit]

Private health care boom in canada?

As far as military "coups" go, this one in honduras has been pretty democratic.

Both Hungary and Germany are cutting taxes to spur economic growth. What a topsy turvy world we live in...

How Al Franken stole the election.

Barack Obama wants National Guard volunteers to patrol the Mexican border.

Who is going to be overseeing the political reconciliation process in Iraq? That would be Joe Biden.

Wal-Mart says that it supports employer healthcare mandates. It sent a letter to Congress announcing its support, co-signed by labor leader and close Obama friend Andy Stern.

At least five states have considered proposals to take pre-emptive action against the pending federal mandates for healthcare.

Did you know that our government bailout plan for banks includes money for a British rum company?

Are we setting ourselves up for a jobless recovery?

 

[Shakey]

How Al Franken stole the election.

Just a question, but why are they not asking why the original absentee ballots were discarded in the first place? How do you know they weren't rejected by Coleman supporters? It's just as baseless and silly as saying the canvassing board was packed with Franken supporters who allowed any ballot Franken wanted. Especially since from the article you quoted:

The three-judge panel overseeing the Coleman legal challenge, and the Supreme Court that reviewed the panel's findings, in essence found that Mr. Coleman hadn't demonstrated a willful or malicious attempt on behalf of officials to deny him the election.

 

[Espy]

Living here and seeing the paper print ballots that where given to Franken, it was horrifyingly obvious whom the recount judges were in favor of. When you see a ballot that has clearly marked votes for Obama and Norm Coleman, but they give it to Franken because they feel that no one would vote for a democrat pres but not the democrat senate candidate you really start to wonder at how low things can get.
But enjoy it Franken. I doubt he gets more than 1 or 2 terms.

 

[Krisken]

Living here and seeing the paper print ballots that where given to Franken, it was horrifyingly obvious whom the recount judges were in favor of. When you see a ballot that has clearly marked votes for Obama and Norm Coleman, but they give it to Franken because they feel that no one would vote for a democrat pres but not the democrat senate candidate you really start to wonder at how low things can get.
But enjoy it Franken. I doubt he gets more than 1 or 2 terms.

Do you have a link to some of these images? I'd like to see them.

 

[Shakey]

I guess I've never seen a ballot decision like that. I know both sides contested some ballots that made absolutely no sense, but that doesn't mean they were actually counted. You'd think that if they were doing that the ballots would be waved around by Republicans to show the problems going on. I haven't seen any doing anything more than saying how unfair it was.

I'm not cheering Frankens win, but I'm not mourning it either. I just have yet to be convinced that any actual fraud occurred. Especially since it was upheld by 2 separate court decisions.

I seriously doubt he gets reelected.

 

[Espy]

Do you have a link to some of these images? I'd like to see them.

That's one example. They've been linked to here several times already so I'm not going to go find it all again, if you want to go dig around the Star Tribune, have fun. Let me point out though, I'm not a sore loser, I didn't vote for Coleman and frankly I don't give a damn who does or doesn't think Franken stole the election, because it doesn't make a difference. I just live here and read the paper and watch the news and saw the problems and conflicts of interested that happened, what bothers me is the sketchy nature of the whole thing and it simply furthers my view of corruption on both parties.

 

[GasBandit]

Do you have a link to some of these images? I'd like to see them.

That's one example. They've been linked to here several times already so I'm not going to go find it all again, if you want to go dig around the Star Tribune, have fun. Let me point out though, I'm not a sore loser, I didn't vote for Coleman and frankly I don't give a damn who does or doesn't think Franken stole the election, because it doesn't make a difference. I just live here and read the paper and watch the news and saw the problems and conflicts of interested that happened, what bothers me is the sketchy nature of the whole thing and it simply furthers my view of corruption on both parties.

you can't image tag a pdf.
http://senaterecount.startribune.com/me ... allot6.pdf

 

[Krisken]

Do you have a link to some of these images? I'd like to see them.

That's one example. They've been linked to here several times already so I'm not going to go find it all again, if you want to go dig around the Star Tribune, have fun. Let me point out though, I'm not a sore loser, I didn't vote for Coleman and frankly I don't give a damn who does or doesn't think Franken stole the election, because it doesn't make a difference. I just live here and read the paper and watch the news and saw the problems and conflicts of interested that happened, what bothers me is the sketchy nature of the whole thing and it simply furthers my view of corruption on both parties.

I didn't think I implied you were a sore loser, but if it seemed I did, I apologize. I can't see the image (covered by Gas while I was writing), but I'll go to the Star Tribune to see exactly what you are referring to.

It seems like a petty challenge. Was this one that was thrown out?

 

[AshburnerX]

How Al Franken stole the election.

Considering a panel of judges decided there was no willful act to deny Coleman the election, I disagree.

Barack Obama wants National Guard volunteers to patrol the Mexican border.

Considering the Mexican Army routinely violates our borders and actively helps people running illegals out of the country, I say this is perfectly justified.

Are we setting ourselves up for a jobless recovery?

Link is broken. Can you find it again and repost it?

 

[Shakey]

I'm guessing that vote wasn't counted because the oval wasn't filled in completely. Every other vote was filled in completely except for that one, so there could be doubt. It's all up to a humans interpretation of the rules, and some times they make shitty decisions. The courts seemed to think it was fair though.

-- Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:29 pm --

It seems like a petty challenge. Was this one that was thrown out?

Yes.

 

[Krisken]

I'm guessing that vote wasn't counted because the oval wasn't filled in completely. Every other vote was filled in completely except for that one, so there could be doubt. It's all up to a humans interpretation of the rules, and some times they make shitty decisions. The courts seemed to think it was fair though.

-- Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:29 pm --

It seems like a petty challenge. Was this one that was thrown out?

Yes.

Ok. I think choosing one like this one as a challenge sucks. I also have no doubt that no matter which circle had that half fill, it would have been challenged.

 

[GasBandit]

How Al Franken stole the election.

Considering a panel of judges decided there was no willful act to deny Coleman the election, I disagree.

Judges can have biases too. Remember, just because Judges decide something doesn't make it set-in-stone permanent true and righteous. Ask Dredd Scott.

Barack Obama wants National Guard volunteers to patrol the Mexican border.

Considering the Mexican Army routinely violates our borders and actively helps people running illegals out of the country, I say this is perfectly justified.

I might be inclined to agree, but I'm waiting to see if the guardsmen are sent out there carrying M16s and night vision goggles... or bottles of dasani and maps.

Are we setting ourselves up for a jobless recovery?

Link is broken. Can you find it again and repost it?

Dunno how that happened...

Jobless Recovery?

 

[Krisken]

How Al Franken stole the election.

Considering a panel of judges decided there was no willful act to deny Coleman the election, I disagree.

Judges can have biases too. Remember, just because Judges decide something doesn't make it set-in-stone permanent true and righteous. Ask Dredd Scott.

Do you have an image of one not tossed that was challenged by the Coleman camp that looks just like that, all the other circles completely filled in but Franken's circle half filled like that? I want a fair comparison before I entertain ideas of bias. Also, is there a pattern of ballots like this being allowed for Franken but not for Coleman?

 

[AshburnerX]

Barack Obama wants National Guard volunteers to patrol the Mexican border.

Considering the Mexican Army routinely violates our borders and actively helps people running illegals out of the country, I say this is perfectly justified.

I might be inclined to agree, but I'm waiting to see if the guardsmen are sent out there carrying M16s and night vision goggles... or bottles of dasani and maps.

If we actually started detaining or eliminating Mexican Army soldiers when they are found to be helping illegals, I'd imagine the Mexico government would wise up and stop helping. They know they are in no position to stop us if we ever actually wanted to invade. They won't do anything to stop people crossing the border, but they certainly would stop sending Army units to antagonize us.