Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats

[GasBandit]

That's a stunning, damning, devastating counterargument you have there. Except for the part where I've provided a link to a source every single time.

Whereas you claim to know all about it and swear up and down the sky is falling because you had a class that talked about it while you were studying to become a scientist. Whoops, sorry, I meant lawyer.

No your "sources" have never been unbiased scientific sources they are always terribly biased towards your uneducated view. Providing a link does not a worthwhile source make.

And I have never "claimed the sky is falling" you just think I must support global warming because I call you on the fact that you know nothing about it. And you are going to play the degree card mr computers/history? Where is your science background? At least I have one, even if not a full degree.[/QUOTE]

Actually, technically, MINE is the one that has the word "science" in it And unlike you, I never cited my university courses as backup for my global warming arguments.

 

[makare]

That's a stunning, damning, devastating counterargument you have there. Except for the part where I've provided a link to a source every single time.

Whereas you claim to know all about it and swear up and down the sky is falling because you had a class that talked about it while you were studying to become a scientist. Whoops, sorry, I meant lawyer.

No your "sources" have never been unbiased scientific sources they are always terribly biased towards your uneducated view. Providing a link does not a worthwhile source make.

And I have never "claimed the sky is falling" you just think I must support global warming because I call you on the fact that you know nothing about it. And you are going to play the degree card mr computers/history? Where is your science background? At least I have one, even if not a full degree.[/QUOTE]

Actually, technically, MINE is the one that has the word "science" in it And unlike you, I never cited my university courses as backup for my global warming arguments.[/QUOTE]

Unless you are saying that you didn't cite them but they do exist, that doesn't seem to help your argument.

 

[Krisken]

That's a stunning, damning, devastating counterargument you have there. Except for the part where I've provided a link to a source every single time.

Whereas you claim to know all about it and swear up and down the sky is falling because you had a class that talked about it while you were studying to become a scientist. Whoops, sorry, I meant lawyer.

No your "sources" have never been unbiased scientific sources they are always terribly biased towards your uneducated view. Providing a link does not a worthwhile source make.

And I have never "claimed the sky is falling" you just think I must support global warming because I call you on the fact that you know nothing about it. And you are going to play the degree card mr computers/history? Where is your science background? At least I have one, even if not a full degree.[/quote]

Actually, technically, MINE is the one that has the word "science" in it And unlike you, I never cited my university courses as backup for my global warming arguments.[/quote]

Unless you are saying that you didn't cite them but they do exist, that doesn't seem to help your argument.[/QUOTE]
Shhhh, the absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

 

[Dave]

I'm still giggling at the name Dick Army.

 

[DarkAudit]

Don't tell GB, but TARP!=the stimulus bill.

Also, there's a couple of highway projects here well underway many years early thanks to the stimulus. Scheduled to complete next summer instead of not even starting until 2013 at the earliest.

 

[Krisken]

Don't tell GB, but TARP!=the stimulus bill.

Also, there's a couple of highway projects here well underway many years early thanks to the stimulus. Scheduled to complete next summer instead of not even starting until 2013 at the earliest.

So, wait, you mean the stimulus package isn't an instant cure? What a rip off!

 

[Armadillo]

Don't tell GB, but TARP!=the stimulus bill.

Also, there's a couple of highway projects here well underway many years early thanks to the stimulus. Scheduled to complete next summer instead of not even starting until 2013 at the earliest.

So, wait, you mean the stimulus package isn't an instant cure? What a rip off![/QUOTE]

Boy howdy, that sure didn't stop Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of the Democrats from selling it like it was an instant cure, did it?

 

[makare]

Don't tell GB, but TARP!=the stimulus bill.

Also, there's a couple of highway projects here well underway many years early thanks to the stimulus. Scheduled to complete next summer instead of not even starting until 2013 at the earliest.

So, wait, you mean the stimulus package isn't an instant cure? What a rip off![/QUOTE]

Boy howdy, that sure didn't stop Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of the Democrats from selling it like it was an instant cure, did it?[/QUOTE]

Damn them for trying to up morale in an emotionally and financially depressed country... those lying bastards! Hope is a lie!

 

[DarkAudit]

OH NOEZ!!! The health care bill will take our guns away!!! Idiots.

 

[Armadillo]

Don't tell GB, but TARP!=the stimulus bill.

Also, there's a couple of highway projects here well underway many years early thanks to the stimulus. Scheduled to complete next summer instead of not even starting until 2013 at the earliest.

So, wait, you mean the stimulus package isn't an instant cure? What a rip off![/QUOTE]

Boy howdy, that sure didn't stop Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of the Democrats from selling it like it was an instant cure, did it?[/QUOTE]

Damn them for trying to up morale in an emotionally and financially depressed country... those lying bastards! Hope is a lie![/QUOTE]

I have a small problem with the administration (ANY administration) using falsehoods and fear in an attempt to forward an agenda. We were told that if the stimulus wasn't passed RIGHT NOW, BAH GAWD that the country would never recover from the economic doldrums. Well, if the majority of it doesn't even kick in for another 3-5 years, how could it have been so imperative?

An economic plan is sold as crucial to our economic survival, when it CLEARLY is not, and may actually damage us long-term. You call that "giving hope," I call it a lie. To-may-to, to-mah-to, I guess...

 

[Krisken]

Not really. One is intended to inspire a country and raise confidence in the economic system, leading to jobs and a stable stock market. The other leads to oppressive laws put in place and wars on countries who never attacked us.

Can you guess which one I'm ok with?

Besides, if you think our government, any government, is going to be completely honest with its people, you're one hell of a dreamer.

 

[Covar]

Can you guess which one I'm ok with?

The one that actually did nothing?

 

[Krisken]

Can you guess which one I'm ok with?

The one that actually did nothing?[/QUOTE]
If by "did nothing" you mean stopped the stock market slide into the pits of despair and allowed it to bounce back above 10,000, then yes, the one that did nothing.

 

[makare]

So what was the lie? They believe that the stimulus was critical to economic recovery and there really isn't any proof otherwise either way.

And you may not understand this but hope and morale plays alot into the stock market and economy. It may take 3 years for the stimulus to reach fruition but the faith in it bolsters the economy in the present. So as a plan to help the economy it works just fine, is it an instant fix no.. is presenting it as an instant fix part of the solution.. yes.

and again, having to use the word clearly is a sign that it is not clear and you are making conclusions unsupported by the facts.

 

[DarkAudit]

The purge continues. If you answer no to 3 or more statements, you are not a "pure" Republican, and are effectively kicked out.

So where are the questions about supporting unnecessary and illegal war, torture, and the the gutting of our civil liberties?

 

[Armadillo]

And you may not understand this but hope and morale plays alot into the stock market and economy. It may take 3 years for the stimulus to reach fruition but the faith in it bolsters the economy in the present. So as a plan to help the economy it works just fine, is it an instant fix no.. is presenting it as an instant fix part of the solution.. yes.

I've been respectful of you, so please don't insult my intelligence with that "you may not understand" crap again. Thank you. Now, what you have said here is that you're OK with the administration at best misleading the public by presenting something as an instant fix when they know full well that it's not. That's a fine example of "the ends justify the means," which was the same logic used by the Bush administration to justify indefinite detention of terror suspects.

and again, having to use the word clearly is a sign that it is not clear and you are making conclusions unsupported by the facts.

WHAT FACTS?!?!? Unemployment is at 10.2%, with real unemployment (factoring in those who have stopped looking for jobs) at around 17%, a projected 14 TRILLION dollar deficit, and that's not even factoring in the lovely program that shoved two years worth of car sales into two months, leaving dealerships barren ever since while taking perfectly good cars out of commission that could have been used for better purposes, taking over two car companies and a shit ton of banks and generally messing with the market and interfering when they should have just gone into bankruptcy and let the established methods run their course, and on and on and on. The situation we're in is unsustainable; even freakin' CHINA said as much to Obama last week. Bush had record debt when he left office, Obama has almost QUADRUPLED it in less than a year. Screw Republican/Democrat, this is going to kill this country. We can't keep going down this path and expect good things to happen.

 

[makare]

And you may not understand this but hope and morale plays alot into the stock market and economy. It may take 3 years for the stimulus to reach fruition but the faith in it bolsters the economy in the present. So as a plan to help the economy it works just fine, is it an instant fix no.. is presenting it as an instant fix part of the solution.. yes.

I've been respectful of you, so please don't insult my intelligence with that "you may not understand" crap again. Thank you. Now, what you have said here is that you're OK with the administration at best misleading the public by presenting something as an instant fix when they know full well that it's not. That's a fine example of "the ends justify the means," which was the same logic used by the Bush administration to justify indefinite detention of terror suspects. [/quote]

Yes I am OK with what you have labeled as misleading the public for the reasons already stated.

and again, having to use the word clearly is a sign that it is not clear and you are making conclusions unsupported by the facts.

WHAT FACTS?!?!? Unemployment is at 10.2%, with real unemployment (factoring in those who have stopped looking for jobs) at around 17%, a projected 14 TRILLION dollar deficit, and that's not even factoring in the lovely program that shoved two years worth of car sales into two months, leaving dealerships barren ever since while taking perfectly good cars out of commission that could have been used for better purposes, taking over two car companies and a shit ton of banks and generally messing with the market and interfering when they should have just gone into bankruptcy and let the established methods run their course, and on and on and on. The situation we're in is unsustainable; even freakin' CHINA said as much to Obama last week. Bush had record debt when he left office, Obama has almost QUADRUPLED it in less than a year. Screw Republican/Democrat, this is going to kill this country. We can't keep going down this path and expect good things to happen.[/QUOTE]

You interpret those things one way, someone can interpret them another way. It is hardly clear.

The car sales were non existent anyway but of course it was the sales initiative that is causing it now, that makes sense.

"Should have gone into bankruptcy" that is very much your subjective opinion.

Also, I don't respect you.

 

[Armadillo]

And you may not understand this but hope and morale plays alot into the stock market and economy. It may take 3 years for the stimulus to reach fruition but the faith in it bolsters the economy in the present. So as a plan to help the economy it works just fine, is it an instant fix no.. is presenting it as an instant fix part of the solution.. yes.

I've been respectful of you, so please don't insult my intelligence with that "you may not understand" crap again. Thank you. Now, what you have said here is that you're OK with the administration at best misleading the public by presenting something as an instant fix when they know full well that it's not. That's a fine example of "the ends justify the means," which was the same logic used by the Bush administration to justify indefinite detention of terror suspects. [/quote]

Yes I am OK with what you have labeled as misleading the public for the reasons already stated.

and again, having to use the word clearly is a sign that it is not clear and you are making conclusions unsupported by the facts.

WHAT FACTS?!?!? Unemployment is at 10.2%, with real unemployment (factoring in those who have stopped looking for jobs) at around 17%, a projected 14 TRILLION dollar deficit, and that's not even factoring in the lovely program that shoved two years worth of car sales into two months, leaving dealerships barren ever since while taking perfectly good cars out of commission that could have been used for better purposes, taking over two car companies and a shit ton of banks and generally messing with the market and interfering when they should have just gone into bankruptcy and let the established methods run their course, and on and on and on. The situation we're in is unsustainable; even freakin' CHINA said as much to Obama last week. Bush had record debt when he left office, Obama has almost QUADRUPLED it in less than a year. Screw Republican/Democrat, this is going to kill this country. We can't keep going down this path and expect good things to happen.[/QUOTE]

You interpret those things one way, someone can interpret them another way. It is hardly clear.

The car sales were non existent anyway but of course it was the sales initiative that is causing it now, that makes sense.

"Should have gone into bankruptcy" that is very much your subjective opinion.

Also, I don't respect you.[/QUOTE]

Well, all right then. We have nothing further to discuss.

 

[Krisken]

And you may not understand this but hope and morale plays alot into the stock market and economy. It may take 3 years for the stimulus to reach fruition but the faith in it bolsters the economy in the present. So as a plan to help the economy it works just fine, is it an instant fix no.. is presenting it as an instant fix part of the solution.. yes.

I've been respectful of you, so please don't insult my intelligence with that "you may not understand" crap again. Thank you. Now, what you have said here is that you're OK with the administration at best misleading the public by presenting something as an instant fix when they know full well that it's not. That's a fine example of "the ends justify the means," which was the same logic used by the Bush administration to justify indefinite detention of terror suspects.
[/QUOTE]
Those aren't even CLOSE to the same thing. One is an attempt to prevent financial collapse. One is an expansion of power. You're putting apples with oranges and labeling them all lemons.

 

[DarkAudit]

Found in the mists of the intertubes:


Oh yeah, that deficit? It was a sizeable surplus until some dumbass dragged us into an unnecessary and probably illegal war. With all the murder, torture, and profiteering that went along with it. A pile of shit eight years in the making can't be cleared in just 10 months.

 

[Armadillo]

Found in the mists of the intertubes:


Oh yeah, that deficit? It was a sizeable surplus until some dumbass dragged us into an unnecessary and probably illegal war. With all the murder, torture, and profiteering that went along with it. A pile of shit eight years in the making can't be cleared in just 10 months.

So, the way you fix a sizable deficit is to quadruple it? We have an out-of-control spending problem under Bush, so the corrective answer is to spend even more money faster.

Nobody expected all of our problems to be fixed in ten months, but he's not even close to starting to fix them. It's getting WORSE, not better.

---------- Post added at 12:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 AM ----------

And you may not understand this but hope and morale plays alot into the stock market and economy. It may take 3 years for the stimulus to reach fruition but the faith in it bolsters the economy in the present. So as a plan to help the economy it works just fine, is it an instant fix no.. is presenting it as an instant fix part of the solution.. yes.

I've been respectful of you, so please don't insult my intelligence with that "you may not understand" crap again. Thank you. Now, what you have said here is that you're OK with the administration at best misleading the public by presenting something as an instant fix when they know full well that it's not. That's a fine example of "the ends justify the means," which was the same logic used by the Bush administration to justify indefinite detention of terror suspects.
[/QUOTE]
Those aren't even CLOSE to the same thing. One is an attempt to prevent financial collapse. One is an expansion of power. You're putting apples with oranges and labeling them all lemons.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but you're hearing similar justifications for both from the respective political sides. The ends justify the means: it's OK to hold people indefinitely because they may pose a threat, and protecting the homeland is paramount to human rights. It's OK to lie about the urgency of passing the stimulus because we're in a bad way financially. Screw both of them, the ends NEVER justify lying and cheating.

Also, you don't want to argue in any context that Obama's not trying to increase federal power.

 

[Krisken]

Yes, but you're hearing similar justifications for both from the respective political sides. The ends justify the means: it's OK to hold people indefinitely because they may pose a threat, and protecting the homeland is paramount to human rights. It's OK to lie about the urgency of passing the stimulus because we're in a bad way financially. Screw both of them, the ends NEVER justify lying and cheating.

Also, you don't want to argue in any context that Obama's not trying to increase federal power.

I'm still not following. The holding people indefinitely because they "pose a potential threat" is unconstitutional. Passing a stimulus bill to keep the country from going into the shitter isn't.

I can't believe we're really having this conversation. You don't think the stimulus is working. That's fine. The bill is meant to help the nation and keep it from going into the crapper while creating jobs. You don't think it has, and feel it has hurt the nation. That doesn't make the stimulus bill a lie, or equate it to starting wars with countries that never attacked us. It doesn't equate it to grabbing people in other countries and holding them indefinitely.

Like I said. Apples, oranges, lemons.

 

[DarkAudit]

How desperate is the GOP to slam Obama? Boehner goes home to Ohio and turns down an invite to a state dinner, yet the Washington Times and Fox run the story that he wasn't invited.

That Ronald Reagan GOP Purity Test? Turns out Ronnie would fail.

Cheney speaks "from the perspective of the troops"? So which of those five deferments was the one that got you that perspective?

Is it over? Please? Hoffman un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-unconcedes. (Is that right? I lost count. Short version is he's quit and Owens is the winner, period.)

 

[DarkAudit]

That GOP purity test Ronald Reagan would've failed? So would 40 or so current GOP lawmakers. If they carry out their threat and offer no money or support to those that fail... Are you sure there aren't DNC operatives running the Republican party right now?

Former Bush press secretary says no terrorists attacked the US during his presidency. Fox stooges do not challenge this idiocy.

 

[DarkAudit]

That GOP purity test Ronald Reagan would've failed? So would 40 or so current GOP lawmakers. If they carry out their threat and offer no money or support to those that fail... Are you sure there aren't DNC operatives running the Republican party right now?

Former Bush press secretary says no terrorists attacked the US during his presidency. Fox stooges do not challenge this idiocy.

 

[makare]

Gas often calls them RINOs anyway.

 

[SpecialKO]

Former Bush press secretary says no terrorists attacked the US during his presidency. Fox stooges do not challenge this idiocy.

It was part of her determination to "call it what it is" and say that the Fort Hood shootings were terrorism.

Loads and loads of epic fail all around.

 

[SpecialKO]

'Cause it's been dead in here, and I genuinely wasn't expecting it, CBO backs up, with a few qualifications, the administration's "640,000 jobs created" estimate. Huh, even with the qualifications, that's really interesting (and good news).

 

[DarkAudit]

Lou Dobbs - not xenophobic enough!

Afghanis wait "centuries" to "get even", Congessman? Fine. screw the timetable and bring everyone home now.

English only, please. I'm SARAH PALIN, DAMMIT!!! "Not the message the governor wants to send out"? Too late for that I'm afraid.

 

[SpecialKO]

Afghanis wait \"centuries\" to \"get even\", Congessman? Fine. screw the timetable and bring everyone home now.

So, so, so much fail.

I can understand people having different points of view, but how is it that it seems like some of humanity's dumbest specimens are in Congress?

 

[Krisken]

Afghanis wait \"centuries\" to \"get even\", Congessman? Fine. screw the timetable and bring everyone home now.

So, so, so much fail.

I can understand people having different points of view, but how is it that it seems like some of humanity's dumbest specimens are in Congress?[/QUOTE]
Nobody smart wants the job and when someone smart does they don't pass the public test?

 

[Shakey]

Afghanis wait \"centuries\" to \"get even\", Congessman? Fine. screw the timetable and bring everyone home now.

So, so, so much fail.

I can understand people having different points of view, but how is it that it seems like some of humanity's dumbest specimens are in Congress?[/quote]
Nobody smart wants the job and when someone smart does they don't pass the public test?[/QUOTE]

Smart people are too stupid to lie to the public and the stupid people are too smart to tell the truth?

 

[DarkAudit]

When I linked before that Conservapedia was attacking the Bible for liberal bias, some people thought it was a fake. Sad to say, neither Conservapedia nor the Conservative Bible Project are a joke.

That's Andy Schlafly, son of Phyllis, the famous (or infamous) ultra-right winger.

 

[Krisken]

When I linked before that Conservapedia was attacking the Bible for liberal bias, some people thought it was a fake. Sad to say, neither Conservapedia nor the Conservative Bible Project are a joke.

That's Andy Schlafly, son of Phyllis, the famous (or infamous) ultra-right winger.

"This is not making scripture understandable to people today, it's reworking scripture to support a particular political or social agenda," said Timothy Paul Jones, a professor at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, who calls himself a theological conservative.

Well said, sir, well said.

 

[Espy]

VERY well said.