GasBandit
Staff member
Well, his later books, safe bet is yes, yes it is the lascivious fantasies of a depraved old horndog.
Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats
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I swear... sometimes I think Heinlein's weird sexual shit was transferred to Piers Anthony when he died.
Necronic
Staff member
Going back to a previous comment. Can you actually call Heilnein a libertarian? A bunch of his books are about the benefits of a benevolent autocracy. Starship Troopers has the Federation. Stranger in a Strange land has the Smith religion. Farnham's Freehold has...well Farnham.
Seriously he is REALLY hard to pin down. Got to love him for that.
Seriously he is REALLY hard to pin down. Got to love him for that.
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, I never actually read Farnham's Freehold, so I can't speak to that. But Starship Troopers, note that those who didn't enlist still retained their liberty and prospered, they just weren't enfranchised. As for Stranger, I kinda think that's an apples/orange comparison there, as that was more of an extended familial structure than a political system.
Some - especially some of his later works - really do push in "his" direction too much; many of his earlier works more push you to think and re-evaluate things you may have just thought of as "common sense" or "just the way it works". His proposed solutions most certainly aren't necessarily better than our current system, of course.
As for misogyny... Again, I've heard it expressed, but I don't necessarily agree. His views are too black-and-white, mind, but you do have to accept that a) some of his things should be read relative to the time period he wrote in - many of it around the second world war; b) what his characters say isn't always his own opinion (he wrote a very pointed and convincing argument for completely abolishing all rights for personal firearm ownership, for example, while he was of the opinion we should arm pretty much everybody), and c) there's a difference between expressed opinions and taken actions. By the third, I mean that, in a lot of ways, Heinlein said the right things - he was firmly of the belief it was the woman's right to choose who to have sex and/or marry with, women should be allowed to vote, be allowed in the army, allowed to carry arms, and be allowed to use those arms when they felt threatened. In his stories, though, the main characters (especially later on) tend to be (older) gentlemen who end up with quite a harem. Which is implied as a perfectly possible and happy arrangement for everyone involved, in most cases, and "it could be the other way around just as easily"...but that never happens. You can blame that as "keeping it to writing about what you know" (female protagonists from a lot of male writers tend to be horribly written, etc), or just accept it's a bit of wish fulfillment, or consider him a lecherous old man.
I don't think misogyny is quite the right word for his stance, though - even the character expressing those views (Lazarus Long in Time enough for Love IIRC) says it's a combined fault between their environment and themselves for not making the women in question good enough in defense. His opinion wasn't so much "most rapes are the fault of the victim", but "most women should be able to defend themselves well enough to fight off most rapes" - that, actually, being a fairly feminist statement back when it was first expressed in the forties - self defense courses for women were still banned in many states/countries - though outmoded by the end of his writing career.
As for misogyny... Again, I've heard it expressed, but I don't necessarily agree. His views are too black-and-white, mind, but you do have to accept that a) some of his things should be read relative to the time period he wrote in - many of it around the second world war; b) what his characters say isn't always his own opinion (he wrote a very pointed and convincing argument for completely abolishing all rights for personal firearm ownership, for example, while he was of the opinion we should arm pretty much everybody), and c) there's a difference between expressed opinions and taken actions. By the third, I mean that, in a lot of ways, Heinlein said the right things - he was firmly of the belief it was the woman's right to choose who to have sex and/or marry with, women should be allowed to vote, be allowed in the army, allowed to carry arms, and be allowed to use those arms when they felt threatened. In his stories, though, the main characters (especially later on) tend to be (older) gentlemen who end up with quite a harem. Which is implied as a perfectly possible and happy arrangement for everyone involved, in most cases, and "it could be the other way around just as easily"...but that never happens. You can blame that as "keeping it to writing about what you know" (female protagonists from a lot of male writers tend to be horribly written, etc), or just accept it's a bit of wish fulfillment, or consider him a lecherous old man.
I don't think misogyny is quite the right word for his stance, though - even the character expressing those views (Lazarus Long in Time enough for Love IIRC) says it's a combined fault between their environment and themselves for not making the women in question good enough in defense. His opinion wasn't so much "most rapes are the fault of the victim", but "most women should be able to defend themselves well enough to fight off most rapes" - that, actually, being a fairly feminist statement back when it was first expressed in the forties - self defense courses for women were still banned in many states/countries - though outmoded by the end of his writing career.
So Biden has said he won't run because he feels it's too late to run a successful campaign. Since elections are still over a year away, it just renews my jealous rage that Canada's 78 day campaign season was a record high, not because I give 2 shits about Biden, but because I am sick of years long campaigns. I am waiting for when people start campaigning for the 2024 election before the 2020 election even ends.
What did you think Obama was doing when speaking at the DNC back in 2004?
Politicians are always campaigning. It may not be as overt as "vote for me in November," but I assure you it's the case. Frankly it's harder to avoid secondary and tertiary sources (like I give a shit about lame obvious Trump "jokes") than actual news about various campaigns.
GasBandit
Staff member
The "leaks" up until this point had all indicated Joe *would* be running, now suddenly an entire year ahead of the election is "too late" to get in.
I think we are being misled.
I'm thinking Joe got motivation from the Hillary camp not to run... whether that entailed a carrot, a stick, a mixture of both, I couldn't say.
The difference is...
One of them prompts annoying political ads everywhere I go. The other ones don't.[DOUBLEPOST=1445457836,1445457799][/DOUBLEPOST]
One of them prompts annoying political ads everywhere I go. The other ones don't.[DOUBLEPOST=1445457836,1445457799][/DOUBLEPOST]
I don't claim that is the real reason. I'm just super annoyed about the whole process in general.
I'm late to the topic of Heinlein, but I have something to add to what y'all were talking about.
I am a fan of works. His early stuff, anyway. Stuff like Space Cadet and Tunnel in the Sky, where his ideology is mostly reined in, and reasonable. His later stuff, the stuff he crams full of his ideology I do not like. I realized this long ago.
Then I read Isaac Asimov's autobiography. Well, one of Isaac Asimov's autobiographies. He talks about various writers he knew, including Heinlein. What he says about him is that there was point in time where Heinlein changed. Dramatically. I said to myself, well, that explains why Heinlein's later stuff was crap.
And Starhip Troopers is one of my favorite movies. Along with RoboCop.
I am a fan of works. His early stuff, anyway. Stuff like Space Cadet and Tunnel in the Sky, where his ideology is mostly reined in, and reasonable. His later stuff, the stuff he crams full of his ideology I do not like. I realized this long ago.
Then I read Isaac Asimov's autobiography. Well, one of Isaac Asimov's autobiographies. He talks about various writers he knew, including Heinlein. What he says about him is that there was point in time where Heinlein changed. Dramatically. I said to myself, well, that explains why Heinlein's later stuff was crap.
And Starhip Troopers is one of my favorite movies. Along with RoboCop.
Dave
Staff member
Just think about how much more uncomfortable that class would be with your teacher explaining things like that. I had a 50 year old health teacher who, I swear to god, bragged about how long he could last in bed with his wife. That was bad enough.
Now that I think about it, I feel like he mentioned the Kama Sutra at least once too. /shudder
But bad news to this parent, not many people wait until they are adults to learn about sex.
Another masterpiece where a lot of people don't seem to realize a lot of the "bad" parts are on purpose or with a point; a good action movie with actual thought behind it. Assuming you mean the original and not the remake
No. Not the remake. Not the Total Recall remake . . .Assuming you mean the original and not the remake
On no. They're gonna remake Starship Troopers.[DOUBLEPOST=1445549924,1445549817][/DOUBLEPOST]
Except for that flying hubcap.
Hey, remember Martin Shrekli? The guy who paid 55 million dollars to get the rights to a generic form of a cancer treating drug just so he could jack the price up to $750 a pill? Well someone else is selling the same generic drug for 99 cents a pill, undercutting him and making his purchase worthless. He has now spent 55 million on nothing, all because he's a fucking asshole and pushed someone else to undercut him.
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From the AP article...
So yeah... it's used in cancer regiments, which why I thought it was used to actual TREAT cancer.
I thought his name was Martin Shrekli?
Edit: Okay. The CEO of Turing Pharmaceuticals is Martin Shrekli, he's the one who jacked up the price on the antiparasitic pyrimethamine to $750 a pill when it had been selling for $13.50 a pill. Mark Baum is the CEO and founder of Imprimis Pharmaceuticals, who are selling their drug containing pyrimethamine and leucovorin (a form of folic acid often given to cancer patients), for around $99 for a bottle of 100 pills.
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Fixing. Thanks.
For it being too late to mount a campaign...
The first Caucus and Primary are in February.
But I think a big reason he did not run, is that Hillary has not been damaged as much as feared by the Benghazi witch hunt.
The first Caucus and Primary are in February.
But I think a big reason he did not run, is that Hillary has not been damaged as much as feared by the Benghazi witch hunt.
She actually came out of that looking better than she did going in. Her accusers essentially came up empty (as will happen when you're doing a hearing on something that's already had a dozen investigations that did not provide a scapegoat) and wound up looking petty and clueless, while the Notorious H.R.C. looked tough for enduring a full day of being grilled and emerging unscathed.
Oh HELL NO.
Anyone out there who thinks Scottie Dubya is honest and concerned about the state of Wisconsin...
No. Just, NO.
Anyone out there who thinks Scottie Dubya is honest and concerned about the state of Wisconsin...
No. Just, NO.
Current retail price for a "green" cord of wood in Boston, MA: $275
Number of cords of wood harvested, according to that article: 788
Total wholesale value of wood harvested, in Bostonian dollars and assuming 100% retail markup: ~$108,000
Total cost paid: $15,000
Total profit being generated and paid to ???: ~$93,000
Answers are in order.
--Patrick
Hey, I'm just saying what people are thinking assuming they can do that arithmetic in their heads that is.
--Patrick
