Healthcare - happy with it or not?
- Thread starter strawman
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S
Singularity.EXE
I am currently under my father's health insurance, as I am still a student. But once I am out of it I certainly hope that Obamacare is out (and cheap) because with current health insurance prices I could not afford that myself.
Uninsured, and the state of health care and this whole debate scares the shit out of me.
I'd be without insurance if my parents weren't paying for a cheap policy for me. I'm kinda out of luck in about a year though.
Insured through my employer at a university. My insurance has been fine so far, although I think insurance needs a bit of a fix. I'm not for a single-payer system, though.
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Laurelai
Insured through BCBS of FL through work, preferred the local hospital chain insurance but it was apparently more expensive. So since I also work for the government (county) and they do low bid, the better insurance got booted. My current insurance isn't necessarily *bad*, I just liked the policy I had previously. My dental is meh- I had to pay for the most expensive option to keep my dentist and I don't even bother with the eye plan because it sucks.
Covered by both my national healthcare and the private one I get for cheap for being a functionary's offspring, plus the one I'm forced to have while I'm in the US. I'm happy with the spanish ones, haet the american one because it feels like subpar coverage (reading what it does and does not do) but still costs a lot.
GasBandit
Staff member
Private coverage, I wouldn't say I'm ecstatic with it but overall it does what it is supposed to. Hell of a lot better than what proposed Obamacare.
BTW, you single young males wetting your pants about medical insurance? The premiums on the plan provided where I work for a single male, no dependents is $103/mo. I dare say you should be able to afford it.
BTW, you single young males wetting your pants about medical insurance? The premiums on the plan provided where I work for a single male, no dependents is $103/mo. I dare say you should be able to afford it.
??? I haven't seen anything concrete enough to argue against. Kind of seems like a strawman here. Note: I will probably dislike the bill that eventually does work its way out of the system but I find it difficult to dislike sommething that isn't there yet.GasBandit said:
Concrete enough? There's 1,018 pages of words to read. If you like them, great.MindDetective said:
But if you don't, then waiting until there's something they are about to vote on is ridiculous.
If you want to have a say, read the bill and contact your representatives NOW while they can alter it.
When there's something concrete, all you'll be able to do is tell them to vote for or against it, which will have very little influence at all.
If you don't talk in the kitchen then you might not like what you have to eat when you sit at the table.
-Adam
That's from one committee, right? As of yesterday, Reuters reports Congress working on three different plans. http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNe ... 0T20090811stienman said:
Just doesn't seem like there is enough consensus to 1.) Identify any of them as Obamacare or 2.) Argue against in terms that paint any of the plans as THE proposal that is going to be considered.
Also, I have voiced my opinions already, so I wouldn't go painting me with broad brushes either.
I pay about 90 a month for private care. It's good, I pick my plan and I get reductions for my lifestyle. It's not the best in the world but it's just fine for me.
My wife is covered by the VA. It's free* and the most frustrating system we have ever had to deal with.
*except for our tax dollars and time spent apart due to the military
/throws away oil painting of md and goes to get tiny brushes
My wife is covered by the VA. It's free* and the most frustrating system we have ever had to deal with.
*except for our tax dollars and time spent apart due to the military
Dammit.MindDetective said:
/throws away oil painting of md and goes to get tiny brushes
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Le Quack
Well, I agree we needed healthcare reform, but this isn't exactly what was hoped for.
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Le Quack
Actually, I want a basic socialized healthcare that can take care of the poor for free, then also a privatized sector for those who don't want to use government provided facilities.
Edit:
Anything that would lead to the ultimate death, or a maming or crippling of a person must be offered to be taken care of by the state for free.
Edit:
Anything that would lead to the ultimate death, or a maming or crippling of a person must be offered to be taken care of by the state for free.
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Le Quack
Better to help a little than to not help at all.Covar said:
GasBandit
Staff member
It didn't actually need as much help as people seem to think it did.Le Quack said:
But if you want to lower the cost of medical care, and by extension, medical insurance, a sure fire way to start is with real, meaningful TORT reform... IE, frivolous medical malpractice suits.
North_Ranger
Staff member
Not American. :tongue:
Fix healthcare? No problem.
Here is the example I gave in that thread that died when all the whackos started losing and just devolved into screaming and name calling.
--------------------------------TRUE STORY----------------------------------------
I went to the ER once and never paid the bill.
I got into an accident once and was forced to pay that bill by Florida Law (I had no insurance, license, registration, etc etc)
I paid off the many thousands of dollars for the accident (I had a head on collision with a brand spanking new F-250, not cheap). I had to pay it because it was the law. I paid them $50 a month for a really long time, but it did eventually get paid.
I have never paid for the ER visit. I don't even get letters anymore. Because there is no law that says I have to. So, fuck 'em.
The accident was well into the 5 figure range, and I paid that off over time. The ER visit cost $108.00 USD. I have no intentions of ever paying it off. It has been so long it doesn't even show up on my credit anymore. So, fuck 'em.
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Okay, if you know where this is going, you can stop reading here. If you DON'T know where this is going 1) I am going to explain it and 2) I am going to type really slow so you can understand a little more better.
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See, when someone utilizes a finite commodity (the hospital's resources) without paying, the price of the remaining supplies of that particular commodity go up to cover the loss.
When people don't pay their medical bill, someone else has to.
So, just like when you steal a candy bar and the shopkeeper has to raise prices to cover the loss, so too does the hospital raise their prices to cover their losses.
Medical treatment today is astronomically expensive, wayyyy moreso than even just a few decades ago. If you want prices to go down, YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR BILL. It really is that simple. whether it is through installments, savings plans, insurance, taxes, whatever, the bills must be paid. Any ''plan'' that doesn't include PAYMENT FOR SERVICES RENDERED is not really a plan at all.
The reason you can't tax the rich and feed the poor is that the rich will just take their ball and leave town, or deliberately make less money to fall under the lower tax bracket so they pay less. It is a nice theory to think you can sit on the couch while someone else pays for your shit, but what it really leads to is a bunch of people deciding they would rather be sitting on the couch than working for a living to support other people who are sitting on the couch.
Here is a very simple example. When Robin Hood and his Merry Men started robbing rich people on the road to Nottingham in order to help the poor, rich people stopped traveling to Nottingham, the economy stagnated and the ranks of the poor began to swell, because nobody is stupid enough to stand there and let you horse fuck them.
*Cue stupid people screaming*
Here is the example I gave in that thread that died when all the whackos started losing and just devolved into screaming and name calling.
--------------------------------TRUE STORY----------------------------------------
I went to the ER once and never paid the bill.
I got into an accident once and was forced to pay that bill by Florida Law (I had no insurance, license, registration, etc etc)
I paid off the many thousands of dollars for the accident (I had a head on collision with a brand spanking new F-250, not cheap). I had to pay it because it was the law. I paid them $50 a month for a really long time, but it did eventually get paid.
I have never paid for the ER visit. I don't even get letters anymore. Because there is no law that says I have to. So, fuck 'em.
The accident was well into the 5 figure range, and I paid that off over time. The ER visit cost $108.00 USD. I have no intentions of ever paying it off. It has been so long it doesn't even show up on my credit anymore. So, fuck 'em.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, if you know where this is going, you can stop reading here. If you DON'T know where this is going 1) I am going to explain it and 2) I am going to type really slow so you can understand a little more better.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See, when someone utilizes a finite commodity (the hospital's resources) without paying, the price of the remaining supplies of that particular commodity go up to cover the loss.
When people don't pay their medical bill, someone else has to.
So, just like when you steal a candy bar and the shopkeeper has to raise prices to cover the loss, so too does the hospital raise their prices to cover their losses.
Medical treatment today is astronomically expensive, wayyyy moreso than even just a few decades ago. If you want prices to go down, YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR BILL. It really is that simple. whether it is through installments, savings plans, insurance, taxes, whatever, the bills must be paid. Any ''plan'' that doesn't include PAYMENT FOR SERVICES RENDERED is not really a plan at all.
The reason you can't tax the rich and feed the poor is that the rich will just take their ball and leave town, or deliberately make less money to fall under the lower tax bracket so they pay less. It is a nice theory to think you can sit on the couch while someone else pays for your shit, but what it really leads to is a bunch of people deciding they would rather be sitting on the couch than working for a living to support other people who are sitting on the couch.
Here is a very simple example. When Robin Hood and his Merry Men started robbing rich people on the road to Nottingham in order to help the poor, rich people stopped traveling to Nottingham, the economy stagnated and the ranks of the poor began to swell, because nobody is stupid enough to stand there and let you horse fuck them.
*Cue stupid people screaming*
Unhappy with national health care or their own health care? I'm not sure how to interpret it, really.stienman said:
What he said.North_Ranger said:
The very option of not having insurance does not apply here. Unless you're unregistered and living in the streets and those guys probably have some government organisation who covers for them.
I have state sponsored healthcare due to my employer being semi government, never once noticed any difference between them and my former private health insurance company. They mostly work in the same manner, only the one I have now is cheaper. Since they both work(ed) fine for me, I've yet to have any complaints regarding our healthcare.
PROTIP MESSIAH: More people will get caught for tax evasion and forced to pay than people caught by....what. Collection agencies? People that call insistently? The IRS is no fucking slouch.
L
Le Quack
@Covar, I think thats a poor argument. The government can't get paychecks to your house from work. Couldn't they just give you the check?Covar said:
Yeah, I think that medicare should take care of everyone in imminent danger. If you have a disease that can only be cured by an expensive surgery, or drug, I think the government should cough up for it. Promoting General Welfare.
This feels bad, but...
rly:
Ontopic:
I'm happy with my national healthcare + private insurance, but didn't vote on the poll coz I'm not american.
Also, if you don't count the four votes that are 'I'll explain in length', you have about 30% of unhappies.
You already said that, and it was already discussed that it's not a complete solution... Oh wait, it wasn't, because instead of answering the arguments presented to you (by, at least, me and Wolf, I think others too), you started with the 'NUH UH UH UH!' and ran awayThe Messiah said:
rly: Ontopic:
I'm happy with my national healthcare + private insurance, but didn't vote on the poll coz I'm not american.
Also, if you don't count the four votes that are 'I'll explain in length', you have about 30% of unhappies.
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