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My Fault I'm Female

Jul 26, 2010#1

The Lovely Boehner

This is kind of like FML with a sexist/feminist twist. Stories of people being terrible and sexist that get me all mad at the world. It's mostly UK-based, but there are US stories too.

My Fault, I'm Female

I thought it was kind of cool and is a collection of tangible stories of sexism women face every day.

Jul 26, 2010#2

Dave

None of these things ever happen to men. Seriously. Read the very first one and then ThatGuy's situation. Tell me why it is more terrible if the victim is a woman as opposed to a man. The difference I see in the two situations are that ThatGuy says, "I love her and still wish things would work out."

She says, "...his son is a lazy, cheating, selfish bastard..."

Jul 26, 2010#3

Gusto

Having read the first few on the page there: Yikes.

Jul 26, 2010#4

The Lovely Boehner

It's terrible when it happens to anyone. But it isn't BECAUSE they're a guy. She is getting blame because she's a girl.

Jul 26, 2010#5

Tinwhistler

some of those things have nothing to do with someone being female....just people being over sensitive

A few years ago I was working in a music store that sold primarily guitars, so as you can imagine: lots of male customers. I play violin (and had for about 11 years at the time) and decided to pick up a mandolin to play for a bit, which has the same strings and tuning as a violin, during a lull in activity. A male customer walked by…
Customer: Aw, you learning how to play?
Me: (incredulous) No… I AM playing.
Guess I should’ve realized that women aren’t supposed to have recreational abilities outside of knitting and organizing recipe cards. #MFIF
KM

For instance. Maybe she looked hesitant on a new instrument, or maybe she just wasn't playing it that well. Asking someone if they're new or just learning to play has nothing to do with their vaginas.

Jul 26, 2010#6

Dave

She's getting blamed because she's talking to in-laws and they are on the guy's side.

Come on, man. You are so reaching on these. I love man-hating sites and you're fine with them.

You sexist.

Jul 26, 2010#7

The Lovely Boehner

The mandolin one was probably more about tone than what was said. But on paper, it's not that big of a thing.

Jul 26, 2010#8

makare

The only sexist issue i have to deal with regularly has to do with competence. I can generally prove to be competent at what I do very quickly but what annoys me is that with many things I have to prove competence while a guy in the same position is presumed competent. In all fairness everyone should have to prove themselves but it seems that women have to prove themselves more than men. Also, a lot of the people that treat women that way are not sexist assholes, chauvinists or misogynists it is simply that the expectation of competence in certain areas is so ingrained in culture that it just IS.

It can go both ways too. Women are presumed more competent in certain things like cooking or child rearing. But the fact that most of life is outside of the expected realm of female competence is what makes the gender bias towards women more frustrating on a cultural scale.

ps. I can't cook. Just saying.

Jul 26, 2010#9

Dave

I agree that sexism exists. But this site is more man-bashing than anything. But that's okay because it's women doing it. It's that old feminist double-standard.

Jul 26, 2010#10

makare

I think it's ok because it's just a site. And we can read it and bitch about the site. It's not like it is a law or the government doing it.

Im sure there are women bashing sites out there too and Im ok with that as well. As long as I can bitch about the bitching it's a-ok with me.

Jul 26, 2010#11

ElJuski

There's a great line from this RJD2 album (feat. Mota Mouth, yo):

If you innocent be cool, only the guilty's catching offense

Which reminds me of how this forum is to so rabidly combat for this vague notion of "sexism is not there, not ever". Obviously context and rationale could make some of those stories moot...but really, does every little line have to go under a fine-toothed comb? It becomes an act of self-defense at that point, instead of saying, "You know, sometimes it's true that men DO treat women poorly"?

Jul 26, 2010#12

Wasabi Poptart

@makare - I used to run into the same thing when I worked for my parents' business. They run a saw sharpening business, so most of the customers were carpenters, yacht builders, people who did custom cabinetry, and so on. I was a younger female, therefore I was an idiot. I had one guy who gave me a bunch of crap one day call my boss (aka: Dad) to tell him that I was "a belligerent bitch". Why? Because when he yelled at me, I yelled right back at him and held my ground. I embarrassed him by dishing out exactly what he was giving me in front of his co-workers. My dad told him to fuck off. lol

Jul 26, 2010#13

Dave

Gilman Chatsworth said:
There's a great line from this RJD2 album (feat. Mota Mouth, yo):

If you innocent be cool, only the guilty's catching offense

Click to expand...

Which reminds me of how this forum is to so rabidly combat for this vague notion of "sexism is not there, not ever". Obviously context and rationale could make some of those stories moot...but really, does every little line have to go under a fine-toothed comb? It becomes an act of self-defense at that point, instead of saying, "You know, sometimes it's true that men DO treat women poorly"?

Mostly this is due because of who posted it. Like when Jon posts stuff about the military. There's just such a bias going into the topic that things get over-analyzed.

Jul 26, 2010#14

KCWM

I object! To what? Oh, I don't know. I haven't clicked the site yet because it's better to post without knowing what's going on than to waste time actually reading, amirite?

Jul 26, 2010#15

Allen, who is Quiet

KCWM said:
I haven't clicked the site yet because it's better to post without knowing what's going on than to waste time actually reading, amirite?

Right

Jul 26, 2010#16

makare

oh yeah the other sexist thing i ran into was last month. I can kind of forgive this guy because he is a Hutterite and women are treated pretty archaically in their culture. He came with his family to camp and first off I went to the passenger window, as I always do, and was going to talk to his wife. That's just kind of how this works the passenger is usually the one who deals with the booth attendant. That kind of set us off on the wrong foot. This woman would try not to even look at me and when she did she had this really mean contemptuous look on her face. I was like wtf did I do. Then the man got out and proceeded to talk to me like I was a child, which really messed with me because I wasn't even spoken to like I was a child when I actually was a child. I told him everything he was supposed to do etc but he wouldn't listen. The park volunteer guy came and told the man everything I had just told him and then everything was fine. I said to the volunteer, "I just said that!" I was so pissed off that day.

Jul 26, 2010#17

Wasabi Poptart

Reading is so passe.

Jul 26, 2010#18

Tinwhistler

Gilman Chatsworth said:
There's a great line from this RJD2 album (feat. Mota Mouth, yo):

If you innocent be cool, only the guilty's catching offense

Click to expand...

Which reminds me of how this forum is to so rabidly combat for this vague notion of "sexism is not there, not ever". Obviously context and rationale could make some of those stories moot...but really, does every little line have to go under a fine-toothed comb? It becomes an act of self-defense at that point, instead of saying, "You know, sometimes it's true that men DO treat women poorly"?

Sexism exists. People being way over sensitive and blowing things out of proportion also exists. I don't choose to ignore one in favor of the other.

Jul 26, 2010#19

Dave

Tinwhistler;419527][QUOTE=Gilman Chatsworth said:
There's a great line from this RJD2 album (feat. Mota Mouth, yo):

If you innocent be cool, only the guilty's catching offense

Click to expand...

Which reminds me of how this forum is to so rabidly combat for this vague notion of "sexism is not there, not ever". Obviously context and rationale could make some of those stories moot...but really, does every little line have to go under a fine-toothed comb? It becomes an act of self-defense at that point, instead of saying, "You know, sometimes it's true that men DO treat women poorly"?

Sexism exists. People being way over sensitive and blowing things out of proportion also exists. I don't choose to ignore one in favor of the other.[/QUOTE]

We have a WINNAR!!

Jul 26, 2010#20

makare

You two are completely ruining a thread that could be about dealing with sexism in our own lives.

you two suck.

Jul 26, 2010#21

Allen, who is Quiet

Dave is sexist against this thread

Jul 26, 2010#22

ElJuski

Dave;419510][QUOTE=Gilman Chatsworth said:
There's a great line from this RJD2 album (feat. Mota Mouth, yo):

If you innocent be cool, only the guilty's catching offense

Click to expand...

Which reminds me of how this forum is to so rabidly combat for this vague notion of "sexism is not there, not ever". Obviously context and rationale could make some of those stories moot...but really, does every little line have to go under a fine-toothed comb? It becomes an act of self-defense at that point, instead of saying, "You know, sometimes it's true that men DO treat women poorly"?

Mostly this is due because of who posted it. Like when Jon posts stuff about the military. There's just such a bias going into the topic that things get over-analyzed.[/QUOTE]

Okay, I can respect that as an answer because I know I have done that in the past, even though I know I shouldn't.

Jul 26, 2010#23

Shannow

Jul 26, 2010#24

sixpackshaker

I get tired of the self inflicted sexism from some of my users. I walk them through a couple of steps to set up some software, or to get the to quit hitting cancel during an install.

"Give me a break, I'm computer stupid."

I feel like yelling.

"YOU'VE WORKED HERE 10 YEARS, AND YOU ARE AN ANALYST!!! YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO READ!!!"

Jul 26, 2010#25

Chazwozel

Tinwhistler said:
some of those things have nothing to do with someone being female....just people being over sensitive

A few years ago I was working in a music store that sold primarily guitars, so as you can imagine: lots of male customers. I play violin (and had for about 11 years at the time) and decided to pick up a mandolin to play for a bit, which has the same strings and tuning as a violin, during a lull in activity. A male customer walked by…
Customer: Aw, you learning how to play?
Me: (incredulous) No… I AM playing.
Guess I should’ve realized that women aren’t supposed to have recreational abilities outside of knitting and organizing recipe cards. #MFIF
KM

Click to expand...

For instance. Maybe she wasn't playing well, or perhaps she looked hesitant on a new instrument, or maybe she just wasn't playing it that well. Asking someone if they're new or just learning to play has nothing to do with their vaginas.

Socratic dialogue

July 26, 2010 by mfif I go to University in the US, currently studying to get my undergraduate degree. I’m a philosophy major, who plans to go to grad school to eventually get my PhD. In addition, I am a philosophy major who gets constant encouragement from my professors, who think I am very smart, capable, and prepared for graduate level work. In class, I am outspoken, and I almost always have something I can positively contribute to class.
One day, in my ancient philosophy class, we were studying the Crito, one of Plato’s early Socratic dialogues. My professor assigned us groups, and in my group the male/female ratio was about even. We had read the work before coming to class, and it was our first day discussing it in class. There was this part in the Crito, where Plato has Socrates defend his decision to allow the Athenians execute him by constructing a discussion between himself (Socrates) and “The Laws.”
I noticed that there was something going on with these “Laws” that was more than just “the laws of humans!” or “the laws of Athens!” There was something there, something complex and fascinating (which, as revealed by my professor later, was true). So, of course, as fascinated by this as I am, I bring it up to my group.
“No, I’m pretty sure they’re just the laws of Athens,” says the rest of my group.
I keep trying to convince them that I’m right and that there’s something going on there that they’re not paying attention to, when suddenly-
“Yeah, I think there’s something going on here,” says one of my fellow (male) group members.
Immediately, the rest of the group sees it! They are convinced that Socrates meant something more than just the laws of Athens! And they all join in, pointing out evidence and interesting passages that point to that direction.
I was dumbfounded. It wasn’t like they had a past history together in their classes; it wasn’t like any of us knew each other at all. But I did know that I had just spent several minutes trying to make the concept clear, while they constantly tried to make it seem like I was “reading too much into things.” But THE. VERY. MINUTE. that my MALE classmate said anything that agreed with me, they suddenly understood.
But I guess I shouldn’t be upset about it! After all, it’s #MFIF.

Nothing to do with sexism. Just happened to be a male that agreed with her. She convinced a second person to voice that there was something else in the text, the rest of the group began to agree. Stupid bitch.

Male hysterics

July 25, 2010 by mfif I left chicken on the counter to defrost for the next day. Since I didn’t put a towel under it, there was a slight puddle. Any normal person would wipe up the puddle and be done with it. My “significant other” threw a fit because he noticed it. He asked me if he needed to start cleaning up when he got home from work. “So now I have to do two jobs!”, were his words.
So, he’s too good to work a full-time job and help around the house. I on the other hand can get up before him, get the kids ready and out the door, go to school myself, go to work, then come home to cook dinner and clean house?? I didn’t realize it was so hard on a man to wash the dishes… #MFIF

Case of two dipshits. Not sexism. He could of put a towel down. She should have put one down in the first place. Sounds to me like a stupid bitch complaining about her stupid ass husband.

Ah found a good one:

When no means keep asking

July 24, 2010 by mfif Conversation (very abridged) with a male coworker today:
Him: So when am I coming to your place?
Me: You’re not.
Him: But you invited me to your place for dinner.
Me: No, you invited yourself.
Him: So when am I coming? Are you free on Saturday night?
Me: No, why would I be? (today being Thursday already)
Him: Are you free on Friday night?
Me: No.
Him: So can I call you on Saturday?
Me: No.
Him: So when are you free?
Me: I’m always busy. I have a very busy life.
Him: So you’re always busy for me, is that it?
Me: Yes, that’s right.
10 minutes later:
Him: So when are you going to make time for me?
Me: You know, it’s really rude to keep pushing when a woman has already said no.
Him: But you didn’t say no. Ok ok, I won’t say anything more.
Later:
Him: So, will you give me a hug after work today?
Me: No.
Him: That’s ok, you can give me one tomorrow.
Me: No, I won’t. It is not going to happen.
Repeat ad nauseum.
Finally:
Me: You know, this could really be construed as sexual harassment.
Him: Whoa whoa, I’m just joking.
Me: No, to be a joke it actually has to be funny to someone other than yourself.
Him: Calm down, I say it to all the girls.
#MFIF.
Sarah, London

This is sexual harassment and that asshole should be fired for it.

Jul 26, 2010#26

makare

You guys do realize that it is a site for bitching... they know they are blowing stuff out of proportion that is what the site is for. Let them vent, it's not like it is a political movement. It's more like how women talk when they are alone....

Jul 26, 2010#27

The Lovely Boehner

Do you think you could stop calling women "stupid bitches"?

Jul 26, 2010#28

makare

I call some women stupid bitches, but only the stupid bitches.

And if I start saying that fucking ****... I REALLY mean it.

aw my post got smurfed.. that smurfing smurfs!

Jul 26, 2010#29

Chazwozel

The Lovely Boner said:
Do you think you could stop calling women "stupid bitches"?

No.

Jul 26, 2010#30

Chibibar

Chaz: hehe. I don't see the sexism on other case and agree with you. In discussion group, that happen all the time, it usually takes one to agree before the rest of the group agrees (not sure why) but that happen a lot regardless of sex.

Jul 26, 2010#31

sixpackshaker

It is an insult to dogs everywhere.

Jul 26, 2010#32

Wasabi Poptart

Chazwozel said:
He could [STRIKE]of[/STRIKE] have put a towel down.

ftfy

Jul 26, 2010#33

Chazwozel

An Uplifiting Explanation

July 23, 2010 by mfif I was minding my own business in the gym, deadlifting. Unfortunately it seems to attract a lot of attention from less enlightened people, as while I am female my top sets are still in the range of 230-260 pounds. This particular time, someone approached me mid-set, and when I ignored him, he stood over the bar so I could not pick it up until he had said his piece.
He told me I needed to lean back at the top of the repetition to “make my back stronger”. I told him hyperextension of the back is both bad form and can lead to injury, and went back to lifting with proper form. He stood there for the rest of my set, shaking his head. I guess all the mansplanation I get in the gym is #MFIF for liking to lift big weights.

You're supposed to extend your hips forward which causes your shoulders to slightly lean back in a deadlift. The "sexist pig" was correct. Stupid bitch.

---------- Post added at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 AM ----------

Wasabi Poptart;419574][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
He could [STRIKE]of[/STRIKE] have put a towel down.

ftfy[/QUOTE]

Sexism!

Jul 26, 2010#34

makare

are you going to read the whole site?

Jul 26, 2010#35

Dave

They're both dumb anyway. Juice from raw chicken you don't just mop up with a towel. There's germs in them there juices.

Jul 26, 2010#36

Wasabi Poptart

Chazwozel said:
[/COLOR]

Wasabi Poptart;419574][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:

He could [STRIKE]of[/STRIKE] have put a towel down.

Click to expand...

ftfy

Sexism![/QUOTE]

Oh NO! I'm outraged! To the point where I don't quote things well!

Jul 26, 2010#37

Chazwozel

Expectations

July 23, 2010 by mfif One of the posts on here has just reminded me of the first time I met my fiance’s mother, about three years ago. Bear in mind this is the FIRST time I met her. My fiance’s nephew (about 7 years old) was in the house at the time so he took him outside to play football or something. Gazing dreamily at them out of the window, his mother turns to me and says very firmly ‘He’d make a wonderful father’. Err…yeah. Thanks for that – of course, I have a partner therefore we will be having children, right?!
Unfortunately, his family’s attitude has never changed. The most insulting part is that when I ‘explain myself’ and the fact that I don’t want children, their reply is ‘You’ll change your mind later’. Yes, yes, of course I will. I’m in my late 20s and have always known I don’t want them, I have a good career in academia and love my life, but yes, you’re right: I’m not smart enough to know my own mind. I guess all that PhD work addled my delicate female brain. But then it’s #MFIF.

You're female. Females have babies. People who get married generally have babies. Parents always bug their children to have babies once they get married. Maybe you should have discussed this with your fiance? Stupid Bitch.

---------- Post added at 12:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ----------

Wasabi Poptart;419585][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
[/COLOR]

Wasabi Poptart;419574][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:

He could [STRIKE]of[/STRIKE] have put a towel down.

Click to expand...

ftfy

Sexism![/QUOTE]

Oh NO! I'm outraged! To the point where I don't quote things well![/QUOTE]

Now get back to the kitchen and bake me some pie!

Someone call the police! Oh wait…

July 23, 2010 by mfif My girlfriend and I were out dancing late one Saturday night at a Greek themed restaurant/club. I dropped her home about 1AM, waited for her to get into her studio apartment and drove home. She went to take a shower to wash off the sweat and smoke when she saw a man peeping into her window. She immediately called police for help and me to come pick her up.
The police didn’t believe her, asked what she was doing up so late, why she was out after midnight, and accused her of “bringing someone home and changing her mind”. They even made comments about her outfit (club wear).
When we arrived to pick her up to stay at my place, the police were gone. They refused to stay with her until we arrived.
The final straw: the next day we called and the officer hadn’t even filed a report. I guess she isn’t worth protecting or serving. #MFIF

Ok this is absolute bullshit on the cops' part.

Jul 26, 2010#38

Wasabi Poptart

Chazwozel said:
[/COLOR]

Wasabi Poptart;419585][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:

[/COLOR]

Wasabi Poptart;419574][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:

He could [STRIKE]of[/STRIKE] have put a towel down.

Click to expand...

ftfy

Click to expand...

Sexism!

Oh NO! I'm outraged! To the point where I don't quote things well![/QUOTE]

Now get back to the kitchen and bake me some pie![/QUOTE]

Sure you don't want a sandwich and a beer while I'm in there?

Jul 26, 2010#39

Element 117

The first thing I thought after reading the first few pages of that site was "oh my god, yes exactly." The second thing I thought was that someone on this forum would immediately mistake the meaning and intent of the site to be "man hating" instead of "jesus christ doesn't it suck" type commiseration, and the third thing I thought was is the shit I'm going to get for posting these thoughts really worth it? Expressing agreement with these experiences doesn't mean "I hate all men." Just that, "Been there, done that, burned the bra."

Jul 26, 2010#40

Chazwozel

Wasabi Poptart said:
Sure you don't want a sandwich and a beer while I'm in there?

Yes and yes, but don't forget the pie, damn it. You're so lucky to have me; don't you forget it!

Jul 26, 2010#41

makare

I read it as a site about letting off steam and venting. I encourage such things in the proper forum.

Jul 26, 2010#42

Chazwozel

.Amy. said:
The first thing I thought after reading the first few pages of that site was "oh my god, yes exactly." The second thing I thought was that someone on this forum would immediately mistake the meaning and intent of the site to be "man hating" instead of "jesus christ doesn't it suck" type commiseration, and the third thing I thought was is the shit I'm going to get for posting these thoughts really worth it? Expressing agreement with these experiences doesn't mean "I hate all men." Just that, "Been there, done that, burned the bra."

My impression is that it's a site dedicated to stories about how a person's sex plays into how other people treat them i.e. "my fault, I'm female." From what I've read it's 50% stories of actual sexist encounters and 50% man-bashing.

Jul 26, 2010#43

Frankie Williamson

Chazwozel said:
Someone call the police! Oh wait…

July 23, 2010 by mfif My girlfriend and I were out dancing late one Saturday night at a Greek themed restaurant/club. I dropped her home about 1AM, waited for her to get into her studio apartment and drove home. She went to take a shower to wash off the sweat and smoke when she saw a man peeping into her window. She immediately called police for help and me to come pick her up.
The police didn’t believe her, asked what she was doing up so late, why she was out after midnight, and accused her of “bringing someone home and changing her mind”. They even made comments about her outfit (club wear).
When we arrived to pick her up to stay at my place, the police were gone. They refused to stay with her until we arrived.
The final straw: the next day we called and the officer hadn’t even filed a report. I guess she isn’t worth protecting or serving. #MFIF

Click to expand...

Ok this is absolute bullshit on the cops' part.

Man...I have a hard time believing that one. I've never known anyone to do anything like that in that situation.

Jul 26, 2010#44

Chazwozel

Perk of the job

July 22, 2010 by mfif So my husband and I desided to start our wn business. After doing some research on the internet, since I am better on the computer.
My husband then says to me, “Is it time for my blowjob?”
My response ” No, why?”.
His answer “Isn’t that was secretaries do?”
Thanks hubby.
K.D.K. #MFIF

I want to shake this man's hand.

Jul 26, 2010#45

Necronic

I don't see it as 50% sexism 50% man bashing, it's more like 50% sexism (actually I haven't even seen that number yet) and 50% something bad happened therefore it must be sexism. And honestly, this person sounds like a douche anyways. See how I said person. I don't care that they are a woman. They are a genderless douche in my mind. The fact that they study philosophy doesn't help, although they aren't all douches, there is a good correlation there. Same with engineers and autism. Or chemists and murder.

Also, is this all written by the same person? Because here, on July 26th you have:

"I’m a philosophy major, who plans to go to grad school to eventually get my PhD"

and here, on July 23rd you have:

"I’m not smart enough to know my own mind. I guess all that PhD work addled my delicate female brain. "

Maybe these quotes are taken from experiences times a loooong time ago, but it seems like they are written in current context. To talk about PhD work when you aren't in a PhD program is SUPER DOUCHEY. Yet again though, that has nothing to do with being a female. Just being an idiot.

Jul 26, 2010#46

Rob King

These are my contributions to the sexism ranting. I hope you enjoy them. I call it "My Fault I'm Male"

I work two jobs in order to pay the bills, and the second one is doing in-home care. Unfortunately there have been several occasions where I have been denied shifts because some women don't want men to look after them. In the meanwhile, men who don't want women to look after them are generally informed that it might be impossible for them to avoid being looked after by women. #MFIM

My ex girlfriend once posted a rather hurtful note on facebook in the form of a job posting for 'eligible bachelors.' It advised that applicants should care for her, want to spend time with her even when they are tired, and a few other requirements. During our relationship I cared for her and went over to her house after long shifts just to be with her, many times pretty damn tired, even though on other nights she would kick me out at 9:30 if she was the slightest bit sleepy, and would proceed to read or surf the web until 1 am.

Then I get to hear about how men are generally terrible and a decent guy who cares for her is nigh impossible to find.

Message to men: if you think you are a decent guy, you are an arrogant pig.
Message to women: you are god's gift to the males of the world, and only a man of the highest virtue is worthy to even look upon your inspired form, regardless of whether or not you yourself are a loathsome human being. #MFIM

Some of these are undoubtedly misconstrued. Some of these are simply scorned people wanting to complain to the world. Some of these are genuine instances of sexism. But that's not to say that men aren't free to play too.

Jul 26, 2010#47

General Specific

I just found this and it fits this thread, so I have to post it. Sorry to those who don't watch Futurama and won't get the reference

Jul 26, 2010#48

The Lovely Boehner

Sexism against males exists, but you're an absolute moron if you think it's equal with sexism against women.

And this isn't the same person, it's lots of people that send the stories in like the FML website. Did you completely ignore the locations/initials on each story?

Jul 26, 2010#49

Element 117

General Specific said:
I just found this and it fits this thread, so I have to post it. Sorry to those who don't watch Futurama and won't get the reference

Shes not discriminating. She also bashes robots.

Jul 26, 2010#50

General Specific

Jul 26, 2010#51

Shannow

Naw, Chuck...but stupid bitches all sound alike. :smug::smug:

Jul 26, 2010#52

Rob King

The Lovely Boner said:
Sexism against males exists, but you're an absolute moron if you think it's equal with sexism against women.

Probably, but I treat it the same way as the race issue, or even the sexuality issue. I am proud to be a heterosexual man who's ancestors almost entirely came from the British isles. I'm not saying that you can't be proud to be a woman, or a homosexual, or black, pink, green, or blue. But if you get to complain about sexism, or racism, or any other ism when it happens, than I sure as hell better be allowed to too.

Hence my "Some of these are undoubtedly misconstrued. Some of these are simply scorned people wanting to complain to the world. Some of these are genuine instances of sexism. But that's not to say that men aren't free to play too."

Jul 26, 2010#53

Chazwozel

Shannow said:
Naw, Chuck...but stupid bitches all sound alike. :smug::smug:

I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!! NANANA!

Jul 26, 2010#54

ElJuski

That's why you sound just like those stupid bitches, Shannow

BOOSH

Jul 26, 2010#55

Necronic

The Lovely Boner said:
Sexism against males exists, but you're an absolute moron if you think it's equal with sexism against women.

And this isn't the same person, it's lots of people that send the stories in like the FML website. Did you completely ignore the locations/initials on each story?

Yes. Yes I did.

MFIS (s= stupid....)

Jul 26, 2010#56

Chazwozel

If you got sexism problems, I feel bad for you son.

Jul 26, 2010#57

Shannow

Ba-ZINGA!

Jul 26, 2010#58

Dave

Some of those stories aren't as much venting as telling people about the time you got sexually assaulted. A lot of the guys in these should have been wearing orange jumpsuits and trying not to get raped in the shower.

Jul 26, 2010#59

Chazwozel

Dave said:
Some of those stories aren't as much venting as telling people about the time you got sexually assaulted. A lot of the guys in these should have been wearing orange jumpsuits and trying not to get raped in the shower.

And I agree. Some of these stories are absolutely cases of men treating women like they're subhuman.

Jul 26, 2010#60

sixpackshaker

The one where the guy did not speak English, who wanted the woman to whore herself out for 100 euro, and then grabbed he breasts... troubles me.

Because that guys actions likely worked for him before.

Jul 26, 2010#61

Dave

sixpackshaker said:
The one where the guy did not speak English, who wanted the woman to whore herself out for 100 euro, and then grabbed he breasts... troubles me.

Because that guys actions likely worked for him before.

My guess is he's a pig in any culture and just uses that as an excuse.

Jul 26, 2010#62

The Lovely Boehner

Sometimes sexism is a guy assuming a girl doesn't know how to use a screwdriver.

Sometimes sexism is a guy assuming any girl that doesn't want to fuck him is a lesbian.

It takes a lot of forms! Also, I should have made clearer that I'm not going crazy and burning my bra over every single thing posted on there. There were more than a couple that left me kind of non-plussed.

Jul 26, 2010#63

Dave

The Lovely Boner said:
Sometimes sexism is a guy assuming a girl doesn't know how to use a screwdriver.

Sometimes sexism is a guy assuming any girl that doesn't want to fuck him is a lesbian.

It takes a lot of forms! Also, I should have made clearer that I'm not going crazy and burning my bra over every single thing posted on there. There were more than a couple that left me kind of non-plussed.

But there were those who left you plussed, too. Right?

Is that even a word? Like gruntled. You can be DISgruntled, but doesn't that infer that at one point you were, in fact, gruntled?

Jul 26, 2010#64

sixpackshaker

Sometimes sexism is a guy assuming any girl that doesn't want to fuck him is a lesbian.

I mostly see those as some schmuck gets invalidated by being turned down. Then lashes out in anger.

Jul 26, 2010#65

Necronic

After reading more of these (and understanding that it's not all the same girl) I'm going to redact my previous statement. There is a lot of sexism in there. The sexism seems to come down to a couple of different major flavors:

1) Old people and "traditional values" aka the woman should be at home. Which is totally sexist, and might I add, stupid. My brother and I are both trying to find women that can support us. That way I can play more pokemon.

2) Sexual harrasment at the workplace. Totally unnacceptable. Pretty much every example of that I have read there would be a firable offense at my job.

3) Sexual assault. Wtf are guys thinking? I mean seriously, how the fuck do you go to sleep at night doing something like that?

There's other stuff in there as well, but that seems to be most of it. It's disturbing to see so many people still having attitudes like this, but I guess it takes a long time to erase that crap. Sexism has been a problem longer than pretty much anything else in the world, and is only really now getting fixed. Or on its way to being fixed.

PS. I know I used the word 'girls' in the beginnning to refer to women. Too bad. That's the word I use. The only other option is women, and that's way to formal. I don't like talking formally. If there is a less formal word for women that is the equivalent of 'guys' please let me know, and I will use it.

Jul 26, 2010#66

The Lovely Boehner

Girls isn't an offensive word at all just in text, there's no need to get really defensive!

Jul 26, 2010#67

Covar

gals?

I tend to use female a lot due to the military.

Jul 26, 2010#68

Gusto

I'm more concerned with the sentiment that if Charlie posted something relating to feminism or sexism, it must be an overreaction.

#MFICDS

Jul 26, 2010#69

wana10

Necronic said:
PS. I know I used the word 'girls' in the beginnning to refer to women. Too bad. That's the word I use. The only other option is women, and that's way to formal. I don't like talking formally. If there is a less formal word for women that is the equivalent of 'guys' please let me know, and I will use it.

Dolls

Jul 26, 2010#70

sixpackshaker

Just be careful of using "boy."

Jul 26, 2010#71

CrimsonSoul

sixpackshaker said:
Just be careful of using "boy."

That depends, he could be a priest and the "boys" could be in the choir, in which case it would be appropriate

Jul 26, 2010#72

Troll

Gusto said:
I'm more concerned with the sentiment that if Charlie posted something relating to feminism or sexism, it must be an overreaction.

#MFICDS

Jul 26, 2010#73

Gusto

Troll;419759][QUOTE=Gusto said:
I'm more concerned with the sentiment that if Charlie posted something relating to feminism or sexism, it must be an overreaction.

#MFICDS

"There once was a shepherd boy who was bored as he sat on the hillside watching the village sheep. To amuse himself he took a great breath and sang out, 'Wolf! Wolf! The Wolf is chasing the sheep!'

The villagers came running up the hill to help the boy drive the wolf away. But when they arrived at the top of the hill, they found no wolf..."[/QUOTE]

I don't take a lot of lessons from a story where uppity villagers let a wolf kill a child.

---------- Post added at 04:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 PM ----------

Also it's a poor analogy sisnce Charlie doesn't often bring somethnig up if there isn't at least an ambiguous relation to example of sexism.

It'd be like the villagers gathering all their torches and pitchforks and saying, "There's no wolf! Just a pack of feral dogs! OH WELL"

Jul 26, 2010#74

Troll

Gusto;419763][QUOTE=Troll;419759][QUOTE=Gusto said:
I'm more concerned with the sentiment that if Charlie posted something relating to feminism or sexism, it must be an overreaction.

#MFICDS

"There once was a shepherd boy who was bored as he sat on the hillside watching the village sheep. To amuse himself he took a great breath and sang out, 'Wolf! Wolf! The Wolf is chasing the sheep!'

The villagers came running up the hill to help the boy drive the wolf away. But when they arrived at the top of the hill, they found no wolf..."[/QUOTE]

I don't take a lot of lessons from a story where uppity villagers let a wolf kill a child.[/QUOTE]

In the original the wolf only eats some of the sheep and scatters the flock, leaving the boy to demand an explanation as to why they didn't come. An old man explains their reasoning, saying that they simply didn't think it was a real problem.

Either way, I'm not trying to pass judgement on anyone. I just thought the story was a perfect comparison to explain why threads with sexism started by Charlie are ignored or discounted. The same could be said for JonJon's anti-military threads, GB's libertarian rants, and so on. We're all guilty of it. You too, Gusto.

Jul 26, 2010#75

Chazwozel

Made Up

Click to expand...

By mfif I work for a large PR company, and we put on a lot of events for clients. I don’t wear a lot of makeup to work, but I do wear foundation and mascara. At one event my boss (female) asked me why I wasn’t wearing any makeup. I said I was, just that I didn’t like wearing loads as it didn’t suit me. “It’s what the clients want”, she said. “Next time, if you don’t wear a lot more, I think we might have some problems with our working relationship”. #MFIF
Miss. C, London

So I have to wear khakis, have short hair, and be well groomed for work. Shit is so sexist.

Jul 26, 2010#76

makare

If men don't have to wear makeup I think it is sexist to expect women too.

Jul 26, 2010#77

Chazwozel

makare said:
If men don't have to wear makeup I think it is sexist to expect women too.

No way! Especially in PR marketing. Hell, as a lawyer, you'll be expected to wear makeup at trials. I'm sure male lawyers can't come to court with a Grizzly Adams beard and hair down to their shoulders.

It's not sexist to tell women to wear makeup if professional appearances are part of the job description.

Jul 26, 2010#78

makare

You are expected to look professional. No one is required to wear makeup.

It would be absurd to expect women to spend money on something that men are not expected to spend money on.

Jul 26, 2010#79

Chazwozel

makare said:
You are expected to look professional. No one is required to wear makeup.

It would be absurd to expect women to spend money on something that men are not expected to spend money on.

I don't think I've ever seen a female lawyer not wear some sort of makeup.

Just as absurd as requiring a man to cut his hair short. I very much doubt any law firm would allow it's associates to have long hippie hair.

Jul 26, 2010#80

Krisken

Chazwozel;419782][QUOTE=makare said:
You are expected to look professional. No one is required to wear makeup.

It would be absurd to expect women to spend money on something that men are not expected to spend money on.

Jul 26, 2010#81

makare

Thats not the same as being told you have to.

Jul 26, 2010#82

Chazwozel

Krisken;419783][QUOTE=Chazwozel;419782][QUOTE=makare said:
You are expected to look professional. No one is required to wear makeup.

It would be absurd to expect women to spend money on something that men are not expected to spend money on.

I don't think I've ever seen a female lawyer not wear some sort of makeup.[/QUOTE]
Just out of curiosity, how many female lawyers do you interact with?

(actually curious, not trying to make a statement)[/QUOTE]

Me, personally, a handful. I have a bunch of friends who are lawyers. Turn on court TV and you'll see my point.

Jul 26, 2010#83

makare

i think on court tv even the men wear makeup

Jul 26, 2010#84

crono1224

makare said:
You are expected to look professional. No one is required to wear makeup.

It would be absurd to expect women to spend money on something that men are not expected to spend money on.

Unless the workplace demands a standard of makeup it is in no way the same as clean shaven is for men.

Jul 26, 2010#85

Krisken

Like I said, I was just curious how many you knew, not making a statement. I wasn't even taking a side.

Jul 26, 2010#86

ScytheRexx

I think both genders are often required to buy/use certain things to make themselves look presentable. While a woman might get by with a professional looking dress, a man has to buy a suit and tie. While a woman has to put on make-up, I have to spend lots of money on shaving creams and razors just to keep my beard groomed. Women obviously have to shave also, but it's much easier to cover up some hairy legs with some stockings then cover up my face.

Personally, I think a woman has the right to not wear makeup, but also personally, I think a man should have a right to grow whatever he wants on his face. In the end you have to make concessions because people on both sides of the gender fence have standards.

Jul 26, 2010#87

makare

facial hair is just a further extension of head hair. we have to keep head hair neat, both genders, men just have more head hair. that is not the same as having to purchase, learn to apply and wear cosmetics.

Jul 26, 2010#88

Chibibar

The problem is that the world is ever changing BUT some "tradition" kinda incorporate into our society.

Men with long hair and shaggy beard are consider "unprofessional" cause mentally associate with hippies. Now that is just what people think, and accepted over time. Heck, as IT in on of my old job, I have to wear a suit and tie to be presentable at all time and not allow to have long hair, but women are allow but not short skirts and some make up. Is it right? I don't think so, but that is what society (generally) accepted it and until that change, people gotta follow the rules until they reach a level where they can make up their own rules

Jul 26, 2010#89

makare

so we all need to rise up against the corporations. women should stop wearing makeup and as much as it breaks my heart, men should not shave. viva la resistance!

Jul 26, 2010#90

Element 117

ScytheRexx said:
I think both genders are often required to buy/use certain things to make themselves look presentable. While a woman might get by with a professional looking dress, a man has to buy a suit and tie. While a woman has to put on make-up, I have to spend lots of money on shaving creams and razors just to keep my beard groomed. Women obviously have to shave also, but it's much easier to cover up some hairy legs with some stockings then cover up my face.

It's generally more expensive for women:
MP Dunleavey - Higher prices for women's products; gender inequality - MSN Money

Jul 26, 2010#91

Chazwozel

makare said:
facial hair is just a further extension of head hair. we have to keep head hair neat, both genders, men just have more head hair. that is not the same as having to purchase, learn to apply and wear cosmetics.

Jul 26, 2010#92

sixpackshaker

makare said:
so we all need to rise up against the corporations. women should stop wearing makeup and as much as it breaks my heart, men should not shave. viva la resistance!

I vaguely remember the 70's, no thanks, that was an ugly time.

Jul 26, 2010#93

Chibibar

.Amy.;419796][QUOTE=ScytheRexx said:
I think both genders are often required to buy/use certain things to make themselves look presentable. While a woman might get by with a professional looking dress, a man has to buy a suit and tie. While a woman has to put on make-up, I have to spend lots of money on shaving creams and razors just to keep my beard groomed. Women obviously have to shave also, but it's much easier to cover up some hairy legs with some stockings then cover up my face.

It's generally more expensive for women:
MP Dunleavey - Higher prices for women's products; gender inequality - MSN Money[/QUOTE]

heck, even hair care products (to me is basic) cost a BIG difference for men and women.

Minimally most men can get a short hair cut and still look presentable, some might use a bit of hair spray (if any) or mouse, but women salon cost is much higher and require more maintenance. Women with same short hair as men as seen differently (silly men) and not generally accepted in some places.

Jul 26, 2010#94

Chazwozel

.Amy.;419796][QUOTE=ScytheRexx said:
I think both genders are often required to buy/use certain things to make themselves look presentable. While a woman might get by with a professional looking dress, a man has to buy a suit and tie. While a woman has to put on make-up, I have to spend lots of money on shaving creams and razors just to keep my beard groomed. Women obviously have to shave also, but it's much easier to cover up some hairy legs with some stockings then cover up my face.

It's generally more expensive for women:
MP Dunleavey - Higher prices for women's products; gender inequality - MSN Money[/QUOTE]

This article says nothing relevant to the discussion. It merely claims that women are too stupid to buy the same products that are designated for men and do the same thing. I'm not saying it. The article is.

---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------

Chibibar;419800][QUOTE=.Amy.;419796][QUOTE=ScytheRexx said:
I think both genders are often required to buy/use certain things to make themselves look presentable. While a woman might get by with a professional looking dress, a man has to buy a suit and tie. While a woman has to put on make-up, I have to spend lots of money on shaving creams and razors just to keep my beard groomed. Women obviously have to shave also, but it's much easier to cover up some hairy legs with some stockings then cover up my face.

Jul 26, 2010#95

ScytheRexx

.Amy. said:
It's generally more expensive for women:
MP Dunleavey - Higher prices for women's products; gender inequality - MSN Money

Oh I never said it was more or less expensive, just that both sides have standards others look to when it involves the workplace. I don't think a woman requiring another women to wear makeup in a professional setting to be "sexist", just like I don't really think my boss wanting me to keep my beard trimmed is "sexist". It's just one of those items people look to for professionalism.

Does it mean those requirements are "right" or "wrong"? I don't know. I just don't think expectations of dress and cosmetics, whether applied or removed, are inherently sexist.

Jul 26, 2010#96

Chazwozel

ScytheRexx;419803][QUOTE=.Amy. said:
It's generally more expensive for women:
MP Dunleavey - Higher prices for women's products; gender inequality - MSN Money

Jul 26, 2010#97

Gusto

All the dress requirements at my job are issues of Health and Safety, and you can't really argue with that.

Jul 26, 2010#98

phil

Anything can look sexist or even racist in the right light. I hold doors open for people, it's just one of those things that I was taught to do. If I hold a door open for a woman, that could be considered sexist because maybe I'm doing it because I don't think she has the mental capacity to operate a door because she is a woman.

I mean, how do you know for sure that my intention is not based in gender inequality?

Jul 26, 2010#99

SpecialKO

Folks are making a lot of assumptions from that PR grunt story...

We have no way of knowing what the company's other PR reps did or didn't do to make themselves presentable. How do we know the guys in her company don't splurge on $100+ cologne, $50 haircuts, and new $500 suits? If she's the only one at a client event who isn't done up to the nines, it can reflect badly on her if she's supposed to be managing clients' PR, and that, in turn, reflects badly on the company. Of course, that might not be the case, and it's only the women at the company who get this treatment, and this is what it sounds like initially, but there's no way to know.

We also have no idea who the client is. That matters. A lot. Different clients expect different things. A bank client might prefer a less stylish, more formal approach; conservative pants-suits, light make-up. But a fashion client? You better not dare show up without everyone, of both sexes, looking like they indulge in the product, unless your name comes with its own polish. An Ogilvy rep could probably show up dressed like a homeless person and the client would think it's a brilliant new concept; most companies don't have that kind of star-power.

She could be 100 percent correct about the sexist behavior of her boss. But there's nothing about that story, as depicted, that shows that.

Jul 26, 2010#100

Tinwhistler

With corporate lawyers and other high-power jobs, there's a lot more to men's "grooming" than hair and beard, too. Men on the job are expected to drive certain classes of car, and live in certain neighborhoods, and frequent certain restaurants to rub elbows with other power players. Women are generally not required to do many of these same kinds of things, or do them to the extent that men are.

There's a certain level of gender inequality in life, because, lets face it, men and women are not the same. They are different. Both men and women should be given equal opportunities in the workplace and be free of sexual harassment and free of denigration based on gender, but to expect that women and men won't have to conform to those standards that society sets for them is just ludicrous. We are a race of conformists. If you want to get ahead, you have to spend the effort (and if it calls for it, spend the dollars) to conform with your peer group. If you reject those standards, you will be rejected in turn.

That's not sexist. It's simply how humans work in group situations.

Jul 26, 2010#101

Necronic

Good post keo. I do think that expecting women to wear makeup in most positions is totally sexist. As a guy who could be called 'hirsuite' I can tell you that shaving is not the same thing as putting on makeup. It takes all of 5 minutes each day, and it's pretty hard to mess up. You either still have hair, or you don't. If you do, then you shaved the wrong thing. Again.

It's also not expensive to shave. I have very thick hair. Both the hairs themselves and the coverage. And I can make one mach3 blade last me a month. Sure, at the end of the month it starts hurting a bit, but that's just what being a man is all about. When I waited tables I would shave every day with cold water, an old razor and without shaving cream. Seriously. I watched the Dirty Dozen at some point later and they were all complaining about not having cream and warm water, and it cracked me up. Even still, if I wanted to splurge I would spend 5$ a month on Aveeno cream, and 5$ a month on blades (gives me ~2.3 blades a month).

Guys clothing is also stupid cheap. Each of my slacks goes with every one of my shirts, with a few exceptions. My shoes go with all of them. I own 3 ties, and it works for everything I need. They only cost an astounding 15$ for another one. Yeah, if you want an italian tie it will cost you more, but you don't need that for most jobs. Hell, most jobs don't even need ties.

it's the territory that comes with the job. If someone doesn't like it, they can go find another job.

Do you agree with the "public" smoking bans? (as in no smoking in bars/restaurants)

Jul 26, 2010#102

Tinwhistler

Necronic said:
Sure, at the end of the month it starts hurting a bit, but that's just what being a man is all about.

Lol, irony for the win.

Jul 26, 2010#103

Chibibar

Chazwozel said:
Really? Women need and are required to buy a 50 dollar bottle of Bath and Body works shit when a bottle of Pert Plus does the same exact thing?

not bath and body work. I'm just talking about just getting a hair cut. Men can get a cut or even self shave a whole lot easier than say a women.

Super cut cost me like 8$ while women cost 12 minimum in my area. My wife can't get a 8$ cut like I do.

we use same shampoo but she need to work on her hair more cause she can't really have it all tangle mess (longer hair) She can't get a "buzz" cut like me (my old style) cause it is not professional.

Jul 26, 2010#104

Espy

Gusto said:
All the dress requirements at my job are issues of Health and Safety, and you can't really argue with that.

True dat. You just wear all that makeup cuz it makes you feel sooooooo pretty.

Jul 26, 2010#105

Gusto

WORD.

Fortunately/ironically, it's a good thing that I can't grow enough facial hair to necessitate a beard net.

Jul 26, 2010#106

makare

Chazwozel;419798][QUOTE=makare said:
facial hair is just a further extension of head hair. we have to keep head hair neat, both genders, men just have more head hair. that is not the same as having to purchase, learn to apply and wear cosmetics.

Sure it is. We have to purchase and learn to use razors. It's not cheap to shave, or maintain a short haircut. To keep a nice trim haircut, we have to spend about 20 bucks a month at the barber. It comes with the job though. As a lawyer you make enough to support the look.

So... what you're telling me is that you wouldn't wear make-up despite knowing that not doing would probably make you look like a slob in the eyes of the jury and judge?

I agree it's a gender based grooming requirement, but it's very much akin to men having to have trimmed beards as well. Women aren't required to wear ties either. Those things ain't cheap.[/QUOTE]

women have to buy nylons and stuff like that. Our shoes are generally more expensive. etc Also women have to keep their hair cut nicely too and a good hair cut costs like 50 bucks.

Women do not look like slobs just because they dont wear makeup. I wear makeup sometimes but only because I want to. I don't look bad without it. If my job required me to wear makeup they would either have to pay me more to pay for it or I would find another job. Im not covering my face with makeup unless I want to.

Jul 26, 2010#107

Officer_Charon

I usually don't weigh in on rants like this because I don't feel that, as only being one half of the situation, I can have any realistic perspective on how the other half views things.

Lacking Nyanniichuan, I must soldier on with my solely male perspective. I hold doors for everyone, not just women, because it's a polite thing to do. I say "sir," and "ma'am," because that's how I was raised. I expect women to prefer to do stuff for themselves because that's what I learned, growing up in my generation.

Living down South has been interesting with regards to the gender standard. For the most part, women down here seem to revel in "being taken care of," not learning how to do various things such as changing tires, because "that's what a man's for." It didn't really bother me so much until I bumped into it with my own wife, who grew up in rural Alabama. It's not that she's subservient, but she has a definite outlook on what she believes a woman's place to be, and how one is supposed to act with regards to work. To the point that she starts getting upset with me if I help out too much with household chores (well, more upset with herself for not doing them... I don't think she's ever really turned down an offer to help.)

I got side-tracked, but what I was trying to lean towards is that for everyone's perception of what is and is not sexist, it's important to also view where folks come from. Yes, there are some supremely sexist schmucks out there, primarily male, but with a significant number being female, too. But you can't just automatically label someone as behaving in a certain manner, until you get a feel for where they come from.

My $0.02

Jul 26, 2010#108

Wasabi Poptart

I'm about to go get my hair cut in two days. It will cost me $45. Why don't I go some place cheaper? Because you get what you pay for. I have curly hair. I have had many, many bad hair cuts from Hair Cuttery and the like. Higher end salons have people who can style my hair type without ending up looking like a poodle or giving me a mullet. I hate it. I only go every 2 - 3 months because it's too expensive.

One problem with using men's hair products which do the same job is that they are normally scented for men. I don't necessarily want to smell like a guy.

Jul 26, 2010#109

makare

Hehe I just asked my mom if someone needs to wear makeup to be professional. She said only if she is a prostitute.

i love my mom

Jul 26, 2010#110

Gusto

Is some of this just market research? Do women's products/shoes/haircuts/et cetera cost more because women have been shown to be willing to spend more on them?

Jul 26, 2010#111

Wasabi Poptart

Supposedly it costs more to make the shoes and clothes because of the way they need to be cut. I don't know that to be true. I do remember hearing it when I used to have to wear business suits. Paying $150 or more for one skirt or slacks and a jacket - no shoes, nylons, or blouse included - was absolutely ridiculous. I didn't get paid more for wardrobe costs either.

---------- Post added at 03:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:12 PM ----------

That was for a quality suit like Jones of New York, not a fall apart piece of crap from Target.

Jul 26, 2010#112

CynicismKills

makare said:
Im not covering my face with makeup unless I want to.

I'm not shaving anymore unless I want to. Time to get the beard back.

Oh shit I just got fired.

Jul 26, 2010#113

crono1224

Gusto said:
Is some of this just market research? Do women's products/shoes/haircuts/et cetera cost more because women have been shown to be willing to spend more on them?

Get your logic out of this thread. Clearly price only depends on sex, not supply/demand, or what the demand is willing to pay for said products.

Jul 26, 2010#114

makare

i said i would find a different job, didnt I?

Jul 26, 2010#115

CynicismKills

"So why did you leave your last job?"

"Oh, I didn't want to wear makeup and they didn't want to cover the cost of it."

I don't know about you but if I walked into a job interview looking like Grizzly Adams and not looking my absolute best, I wouldn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of getting that job.

Jul 26, 2010#116

Wasabi Poptart

There's a difference between what you choose to wear on a job interview and what you must wear as a job requirement.

Jul 26, 2010#117

Gusto

crono1224;419861][QUOTE=Gusto said:
Is some of this just market research? Do women's products/shoes/haircuts/et cetera cost more because women have been shown to be willing to spend more on them?

Get your logic out of this thread. Clearly price only depends on sex, not supply/demand, or what the demand is willing to pay for said products.[/QUOTE]

What I mean is that ASSUME the costs of production are the same for, say, a pair of men's and women's shoes of similar quality.

If the company has noticed that men are willing to pay $40 for shoes of that quality, but women are willing to pay $55 for shoes of that quality, why should they make the prices equal? Price them both at $40 dollars and you're losing $15/unit of shoes that the average woman STILL would have spent. Price them both at $55 and the average man will not go for it.

It's not sexism, it's basic economics.

Granted this isn't really a solution or even a commentary on this issue of sexism as a whole, I'm just trying to partially debunk the "women have to pay more" thing. Women individually wouldn't have to pay more if women collectively weren't willing to pay for it.

Jul 26, 2010#118

makare

Then I guess you want to shave. I look fine without makeup. I havent worn makeup to any job interview.

Jul 26, 2010#119

Gusto

Maybe not initially. It's certainly institutionalized at this point.

Jul 26, 2010#120

Wasabi Poptart

Gusto said:
Women individually wouldn't have to pay more if women collectively weren't willing to pay for it.

Jul 26, 2010#121

Gusto

I understand that, but it's not the individual company's fault. It's grandfathered into decades of marketing and economic standards, and unless there's some kind of Star Trek-esque Federation no-one-needs-money-everyone-gets-what-they-need paradigm shift, it will continue to trend that way.

A few years ago I really wanted to get a Playstation 3. I wasn't willing to drop $700 bucks for it at release. That doesn't mean Sony's gonna drop the price to suit me, since they still had people lining up for 3 days outside of stores to throw money at their feet.

Jul 26, 2010#122

crono1224

Wasabi Poptart;419871][QUOTE=Gusto said:
Women individually wouldn't have to pay more if women collectively weren't willing to pay for it.

I have to wear shoes. My choice is to pay $15 for something that looks kind of crappy and isn't very business-like or pay $100 for a shoe that compliments my suit and complies with company policy. What choice do I have? I can't go barefoot. I can't wear the $15 shoe. I'm not willing to pay for it, but I have to any way.[/QUOTE]

It is a catch 22, how do you drive down cost of things except to buy cheap as you can, do clearance shopping, buy online. There isn't a whole lot you can do but clearly there is middle ground between 20$ shoes and 400$ Donald Pliners.

Jul 26, 2010#123

Wasabi Poptart

I don't think that's a good analogy. A pair of shoes/clothing/hair cut/etc. that is something you need for employment is not the same as a Playstation 3 that is not a necessary expense.

Jul 26, 2010#124

Gusto

Amorous Eyes said:
I'm still hoping for that Star Trek-esque Federation no-one-needs-money-everyone-gets-what-they-need paradigm shift, actually.

I'm waiting for a lot of things from Star Trek.

I wonder how Charlie would feel about the Ferengi's view on women...

Jul 26, 2010#125

The Lovely Boehner

This whole argument about which sex has to pay more for looking nice is kind of dumb.

I've never said women can't be sexist. They certainly can be, and be some of the most vicious. An older lady I worked with went off about Hillary Clinton saying how a woman can't run anything, not a company or a country. She talked about her long career as a secretary and how she refused to work for a woman again because they are just so awful of bosses and she always gets in fights with them. Of course, it's just because two women can't co-exist in an office, of course!

Jul 26, 2010#126

Wasabi Poptart

Ooh baby let me rub your lobes. :eyebrows:

Jul 26, 2010#127

Element 117

Wasabi Poptart said:
I don't think that's a good analogy. A pair of shoes/clothing/hair cut/etc. that is something you need for employment is not the same as a Playstation 3 that is not a necessary expense.

Jul 26, 2010#128

crono1224

The Lovely Boner said:
This whole argument about which sex has to pay more for looking nice is kind of dumb.

I've never said women can't be sexist. They certainly can be, and be some of the most vicious. An older lady I worked with went off about Hillary Clinton saying how a woman can't run anything, not a company or a country. She talked about her long career as a secretary and how she refused to work for a woman again because they are just so awful of bosses and she always gets in fights with them. Of course, it's just because two women can't co-exist in an office, of course!

Interesting that your instance of a woman being sexist is still being sexist against another woman not a man.

Jul 26, 2010#129

Gusto

Wasabi Poptart said:
I don't think that's a good analogy. A pair of shoes/clothing/hair cut/etc. that is something you need for employment is not the same as a Playstation 3 that is not a necessary expense.

True. I very easily did not buy it. I can't think of any more apt analogies right now because I can't think of anything I own that's a necessary expense. And my job has very little requirements as far as a dress code for either gender. No jewelry, light makeup, no long or unruly facial hair, hairnets for EVERYONE, general hygiene, no strong scents for either gender, et cetera.

I'm not saying it wasn't socially irresponsible for companies in, say, the fifties to prey on the domestic woman's urge to own fancy shoes and pay top dollar for them, but that's informed our prices today and buying habits today, and it's just as... nearsighted for someone on a website to complain about the price of shoes as it is for some teenage girl to buy a pair of $200 dollar shoes because everyone else is wearing them.

If the market is still willing to pay a certain price for something, it is reasonable to charge that market for that product, regardless of gender, colour, religion, age, et cetera.

Jul 26, 2010#130

Wasabi Poptart

Damn it! Gusto, you have a good point, though I do slightly disagree. I can't get my thoughts together right now since I'm trying to work on my homework while having this conversation. lol I r a gud stewdent.

Jul 26, 2010#131

Gusto

I'm feeling kinda dumb today.

My apologies if I've offended anyone tonight, but I'm having trouble articulating for some reason.

Jul 26, 2010#132

crono1224

Maybe it's a complaint that price of things are fueled by possibly ridiculous requirements to buy them. Like all high school students in an area had to wear a special uniform, then they people who sold those saw this and jacked up the price because they knew it was a requirement.

The problem is for certain jobs a certain dress code is either required or highly encouraged, and it tends to be unavoidable that you will have to spend more on the requirements.

Jul 26, 2010#133

Chazwozel

Tinwhistler said:
With corporate lawyers and other high-power jobs, there's a lot more to men's "grooming" than hair and beard, too. Men on the job are expected to drive certain classes of car, and live in certain neighborhoods, and frequent certain restaurants to rub elbows with other power players. Women are generally not required to do many of these same kinds of things, or do them to the extent that men are.

There's a certain level of gender inequality in life, because, lets face it, men and women are not the same. They are different. Both men and women should be given equal opportunities in the workplace and be free of sexual harassment and free of denigration based on gender, but to expect that women and men won't have to conform to those standards that society sets for them is just ludicrous. We are a race of conformists. If you want to get ahead, you have to spend the effort (and if it calls for it, spend the dollars) to conform with your peer group. If you reject those standards, you will be rejected in turn.

That's not sexist. It's simply how humans work in group situations.

My bosses invited me to go golfing tomorrow. That ain't cheap.

Oh, btw, perk of the job for female scientists. You don't have to wear make-up! Btw, I'm not for nor against women wearing make-up as a requirement for the job. I'm only stating that most high power exec jobs require women to do so, especially when marketing is involved. So, no, I don't agree that only prositutes are the only female profession that requires make-up.

Jul 26, 2010#134

Cajungal

Gusto said:
Is some of this just market research? Do women's products/shoes/haircuts/et cetera cost more because women have been shown to be willing to spend more on them?

Sometimes the quality of a product is genuinely better. I do research before I need to buy a pair of good shoes for teaching or walking, and I often find that a 50$ shoe actually has worked better for people than the one that goes for $17.99. And then sometimes it's just that people want it and they know they can make it as expensive as they want... then justify the price with some pretentious reasoning or enticing ads. I find that's often the case.

When it comes to the "extra" or "more expensive" products I buy, I often choose generics and just switch shampoo brands often. That works pretty much as well as using an expensive one all the time. I also look up facts online for how to use everyday things in my house for skin treatment, and that saves me some money, too. As for makeup, I don't have terribly sensitive skin, so I just buy cheap stuff or wait for clearance sales at Walgreens. I've gotten fancy-shmancy mineral foundation for 3$ that was once 15$. And it's lasted months.

Jul 27, 2010#135

tegid

All this discussion about clothing prices sounds funny to me because around here, well, I don't know about fancy clothes (suits, et cetera) but low end clothes are cheaper, even much cheaper for women. I think it's because they buy more of them. Clothes that look like they are more expensive to produce are actually cheaper!

---------- Post added at 07:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 AM ----------

Also, Necronic, if a Mach 3 lasts you a month you are either not really 'hirsute' or have very tough skin...

Jul 27, 2010#136

Covar

Wasabi Poptart said:
Supposedly it costs more to make the shoes and clothes because of the way they need to be cut. I don't know that to be true. I do remember hearing it when I used to have to wear business suits. Paying $150 or more for one skirt or slacks and a jacket - no shoes, nylons, or blouse included - was absolutely ridiculous. I didn't get paid more for wardrobe costs either.

---------- Post added at 03:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:12 PM ----------

That was for a quality suit like Jones of New York, not a fall apart piece of crap from Target.

That's the price for a low to mid range business suit. I'm not sure of the complaint.

Jul 27, 2010#137

Necronic

Tinwhistler;419813][QUOTE=Necronic said:
Sure, at the end of the month it starts hurting a bit, but that's just what being a man is all about.

Lol, irony for the win.[/QUOTE]

Heh, good catch. Darnit....

Oh and about the Mach3, can't remember who asked me that, yeah I have a super thick set of chin whiskers. I can grow a full beard in 2 weeks. I can dry shave anymore mind you, that's something you have to work into.

Jul 27, 2010#138

strawman

Women's suits cost more than men's suits because

* they require more fitting (ie, there are more variables per suit)
* they don't sell as many (and thus can't simply order 5,000 of a given size/cut/style/cloth)

There is likely also the "party dress problem" where many women don't want to be dressed like another woman in the same office. Accessories can often fix this even if they wear the same suit style/color, but women demand more options for style/color/etc.

All of this mixes together to make it very difficult to successfully mass manufacture all women's clothing, nevermind suits.

Thus men's clothing is cheaper. Many men (enough for the purposes of mass manufacturing) simply don't care, and will merely get what's cheapest that meets the requirements even if it means they match every third guy on the sales floor.

Note copious use of "many" and other generalizing words indicating bias towards not definition. If you are offended it's probably because you are weak like a little boy. (ok, now you should be offended, because if I said little girl instead you would be offended and this is the same thing, right? right? :unibrow:

)

Jul 27, 2010#139

crono1224

Ya the guy in the 4,000$ suit is going to hold the door for the guy who doesn't make that in 3 months. COME ON.

Jul 27, 2010#140

Espy

crono1224 said:
Ya the guy in the 4,000$ suit is going to hold the door for the guy who doesn't make that in 3 months. COME ON.

I'm going to rep you in public.

Thank you.

Jul 27, 2010#141

Hailey Knight

crono1224 said:
Ya the guy in the 4,000$ suit is going to hold the door for the guy who doesn't make that in 3 months. COME ON.

Sounds like the guy in the suit is a douche.

Jul 27, 2010#142

Gusto

Jul 27, 2010#143

Espy

escushion;420311][QUOTE=crono1224 said:
Ya the guy in the 4,000$ suit is going to hold the door for the guy who doesn't make that in 3 months. COME ON.

Sounds like the guy in the suit is a douche.[/QUOTE]

No, he's just an Illuuuuuusionist!

Jul 27, 2010#144

crono1224

Espy;420318][QUOTE=escushion;420311][QUOTE=crono1224 said:
Ya the guy in the 4,000$ suit is going to hold the door for the guy who doesn't make that in 3 months. COME ON.

Sounds like the guy in the suit is a douche.[/QUOTE]

No, he's just an Illuuuuuusionist!

*IMG SNIP*[/QUOTE]

All he wants to do is get into poof.

Jul 27, 2010#145

Gusto

I have a feeling the Guild is gonna frown on this...

Jul 27, 2010#146

ElJuski

COME ON!

Jul 27, 2010#147

The Lovely Boehner

Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

Jul 27, 2010#148

Officer_Charon

The Lovely Boner said:
Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

Not where I work, we don't. Or maybe my job is too blue collar to matter...

Jul 27, 2010#149

crono1224

The Lovely Boner said:
Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

Way to ruin a run of jokes with waahing about pay. Hey how about the ladies night, I don't see you crusading about that.

Jul 27, 2010#150

Element 117

crono1224;420358][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

Way to ruin a run of jokes with waahing about pay. Hey how about the ladies night, I don't see you crusading about that.[/QUOTE]

#MFIF

Jul 27, 2010#151

Espy

crono1224;420358][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

Way to ruin a run of jokes with waahing about pay. Hey how about the ladies night, I don't see you crusading about that.[/QUOTE]

Actually the MN human rights division is preparing to start a war against the human rights issue that is "ladies night".

Seriously.

Good thing they don't spend that money on something trivial, like dealing with the child prostitution we have here in the Twin Cities... I mean, cuz, "ladies night"... hell, that shit can't stand.

Jul 27, 2010#152

Troll

Espy;420388][QUOTE=crono1224;420358][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

Way to ruin a run of jokes with waahing about pay. Hey how about the ladies night, I don't see you crusading about that.[/QUOTE]

Actually the MN human rights division is preparing to start a war against the human rights issue that is "ladies night".

Seriously.[/QUOTE]

On what grounds? I'm not saying it's necessarily good, but surely there are bigger things to worry about?

Jul 27, 2010#153

Espy

Troll;420390][QUOTE=Espy;420388][QUOTE=crono1224;420358][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

Way to ruin a run of jokes with waahing about pay. Hey how about the ladies night, I don't see you crusading about that.[/QUOTE]

Actually the MN human rights division is preparing to start a war against the human rights issue that is "ladies night".

Seriously.[/QUOTE]

On what grounds? I'm not saying it's necessarily good, but surely there are bigger things to worry about?[/QUOTE]

Whoops, see my edit.

"Discrimination" is the official reason.
Human rights officials: Ladies' nights discriminatory | Minnesota Public Radio NewsQ

"Bars and restaurants have other, non-discriminatory options for increasing business, through gender-neutral promotions," the department said in the statement.

Screw them and their wasting of my tax dollars while real problems exist in this state.

Jul 27, 2010#154

Gusto

Uh, I think that's the opposite of what we've been saying, Charlie.

In the grocery biz, we all get the same uniform and get paid on an equal scale. Most of the managers at my store are female. I guess we have to provide our own work shoes, and ladies' probably cost a bit more, but they don't need to be nice at all.

Jul 27, 2010#155

Wasabi Poptart

I have always wondered how they compile the pay information to come to this conclusion. I've never had a job where a male in the same job, with the same amount of job experience, has made more money than me.

Jul 27, 2010#156

crono1224

I think it happens at high end corporate jobs? But I'm not sure.

Jul 27, 2010#157

Chazwozel

The Lovely Boner said:
Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

I'm a white male, between the ages of 25 and 50. It's good to be on top of the pile.

Jul 27, 2010#158

Hailey Knight

Chazwozel;420455][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

I'm a white male, between the ages of 25 and 50. It's good to be on top of the pile.[/QUOTE]

Hot.

Jul 27, 2010#159

Officer_Charon

Chazwozel;420455][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

I'm a white male, between the ages of 25 and 50. It's good to be on top of the pile.[/QUOTE]

You can't see it, but there is a fist from a bro waiting on the other side of your computer screen...

Jul 27, 2010#160

Chazwozel

Officer_Charon;420464][QUOTE=Chazwozel;420455][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

I'm a white male, between the ages of 25 and 50. It's good to be on top of the pile.[/QUOTE]

You can't see it, but there is a fist from a bro waiting on the other side of your computer screen...[/QUOTE]

Aww yeah dawg!

Jul 27, 2010#161

Tinwhistler

Chazwozel said:
I'm a white male, between the ages of 25 and 50. It's good to be on top of the pile.

Jul 28, 2010#162

Reboneer

This derail about gender equality or whatever is boring, let's get back to posting GOB quotes.

Jul 28, 2010#163

Azurephoenix

Officer_Charon;420357][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

Jul 28, 2010#164

Bubble181

Azurephoenix;420640][QUOTE=Officer_Charon;420357][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Hey men, if you're still miffed about your clothes costing more (even if they don't), you can dry your tears with the extra money. Because men still get paid more than women for doing the exact same job!

Not where I work, we don't. Or maybe my job is too blue collar to matter...[/QUOTE]

Same here... women doing the same job as me always seem to be making at least 2-4 dollars an hour more than me. Granted there's hardly any women in this field (CAD design technologist) but still...[/QUOTE]

Pay is determined by sectorwide agreements here, so absolutely 0 difference here.
Now, there definitely *are* jobs where there're still differences - in some cases justified, in some not. Some of it is sexism, some of it isn't.
Studies have shown, though, that, in jobs where the pay is negotiable (mostly better-paid management and such jobs), women tend to negotiate less on the paycheck and more on other perks (education programmes, flexible hours, extra vacation days, etc). These usually aren't taken into account in studies showing huge differences between male and female paychecks.
I repeat again: this is not the only reason, there still are quite a few places where pay differs purely for sexist reasons. It's just a contributing factor in some studies which still show a huge gulf between people with "the same job and the same profile". Studies are easily manipulated.

Jul 28, 2010#165

Espy

Reboneer said:
This derail about gender equality or whatever is boring, let's get back to posting GOB quotes.

Helllll yeah.

Jul 28, 2010#166

Reboneer

Jul 28, 2010#167

ElJuski

Seriously if you're not white you're missing out... classic

Jul 29, 2010#168

Reboneer

Jul 29, 2010#169

Covar

Jul 29, 2010#170

The Lovely Boehner

You know, I'm honestly not upset with the direction this thread has gone in.

Jul 29, 2010#171

Element 117

"what's that? a place where women commiserate on the net? BITCHES! Lets post videos AND CONTROL THE THREAD!"

Jul 29, 2010#172

Element 117

Tinwhistler;421434][QUOTE=.Amy. said:
"what's that? a place where women commiserate on the net? BITCHES! Lets post videos AND CONTROL THE THREAD!"

If only there was some message board women could go to and complain about men's behavior...

Jul 29, 2010#173

Wasabi Poptart

Those bitches should shut up and be grateful for what they do have. Shut off the computer, go put on a dress and make up, take care of the kids and then go make your man some dinner.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I will go make myself a Drano martini for even writing that.

Jul 29, 2010#174

Element 117

I'm sorry wasabi, #MFIF

Jul 29, 2010#175

crono1224

Agreed relevant levity to a thread is horrible. Well at least mine was relevant, also that is just as much about man bashing as it is about sexism towards women. Always a great way to fight sexism is with sexism. Though I guess because I am a man I didn't know that, #MFIM

Jul 29, 2010#176

Element 117

"they've accused us of calling the site men bashing! They are bashing us!"

Jul 29, 2010#177

tegid

.Amy. said:
"what's that? a place where women commiserate on the net? BITCHES! Lets post videos AND CONTROL THE THREAD!"

Thread derailing in Halforums? Unheard of!

(Gotta admit I didn't watch the videos)

Jul 29, 2010#178

Element 117

tegid;421468][QUOTE=.Amy. said:
"what's that? a place where women commiserate on the net? BITCHES! Lets post videos AND CONTROL THE THREAD!"

Thread derailing in Halforums? Unheard of!
[/QUOTE]

Our points are not mutually exclusive:

"Some of us throw shit fits when people talk about stuff they don't like. Instead of say, not reading participating in those threads. I''m guilty of the same thing when men complain about women on the forum. The end result is, if you don't talk about the shit I like, I'm going to derail your threads with tirades about what a waste of time you are. Your topics aren't interesting to me, and I speak for the forum. I'm smarter than you, and I'm agressive and tough enough to USE ALL CAPS AND PROVE IT BY CALLING YOU NAMES! I'm really much more interested in crude jokes and pictures of you nude than your opinions. Unless you're ugly. Then you're just worthless. Oh, and don't post a rebuttal, because I'm too busy laughing at a video. What the fuck man!? Can't you just let me derail your thread in peace? ITS OBVIOUSLY A JOKE, bitch! Learn to Laugh! I'm not an asshole, I'm a meta asshole, because it's ironic! I don't really mean all of this, bitch! <insert video here>"

Jul 29, 2010#179

The Lovely Boehner

Ooohh, I got "someone using #MFIM" finally on my thread bingo card!

Jul 29, 2010#180

Element 117

#IBCR

Jul 29, 2010#181

Azurephoenix

#ICBM

Jul 29, 2010#182

Piotyr

Women, amirite?

Seriously, though, sexism (and other favoritisms based on things other than actual ability) exists in many forms, and if anything, the cases of women blowing things out of proportion are all the more infuriating, because it gives the built in excuse of "See, it's all a big overreaction!"

Jul 29, 2010#183

Element 117

Piotyr said:
Women, amirite? HAHA, I'm not an asshole this is a META ASSHOLE JOKE

Seriously, though, sexism (and other favoritisms based on things other than actual ability) exists in many forms, and if anything, the cases of women blowing things out of proportion are all the more infuriating, because it gives the built in excuse of "See, it's all a big overreaction!"

Yeah dude, women are totally more (everything bad ever) than men.

Jul 29, 2010#184

LordRavage

*Is unsure what to even say in this thread. So he hugs everyone.

Jul 29, 2010#185

Piotyr

.Amy.;421518][QUOTE=Piotyr said:
Women, amirite? HAHA, I'm not an asshole this is a META ASSHOLE JOKE

Seriously, though, sexism (and other favoritisms based on things other than actual ability) exists in many forms, and if anything, the cases of women blowing things out of proportion are all the more infuriating, because it gives the built in excuse of "See, it's all a big overreaction!"

Jul 29, 2010#186

Element 117

Piotyr;421523][QUOTE=.Amy.;421518][QUOTE=Piotyr said:
Women, amirite? HAHA, I'm not an asshole this is a META ASSHOLE JOKE

Seriously, though, sexism (and other favoritisms based on things other than actual ability) exists in many forms, and if anything, the cases of women blowing things out of proportion are all the more infuriating, because it gives the built in excuse of "See, it's all a big overreaction!"

Jul 29, 2010#187

Piotyr

.Amy.;421526][QUOTE=Piotyr;421523][QUOTE=.Amy.;421518][QUOTE=Piotyr said:
Women, amirite? HAHA, I'm not an asshole this is a META ASSHOLE JOKE

Seriously, though, sexism (and other favoritisms based on things other than actual ability) exists in many forms, and if anything, the cases of women blowing things out of proportion are all the more infuriating, because it gives the built in excuse of "See, it's all a big overreaction!"

Jul 29, 2010#188

Element 117

Piotyr;421528][QUOTE=.Amy.;421526][QUOTE=Piotyr;421523][QUOTE=.Amy.;421518][QUOTE=Piotyr said:
Women, amirite? HAHA, I'm not an asshole this is a META ASSHOLE JOKE

Seriously, though, sexism (and other favoritisms based on things other than actual ability) exists in many forms, and if anything, the cases of women blowing things out of proportion are all the more infuriating, because it gives the built in excuse of "See, it's all a big overreaction!"

Yeah dude, women are totally more (everything bad ever) than men.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it was a meta effort to get things back on topic, but feel free to continue your crusade of persecution. See: overreaction.[/QUOTE]

right, so when you joke it's cool, but shit dun get real when a bitch does it. Fucking jihad times now.[/QUOTE]

Not any woman, just you. It's difficult to tell where the line between serious and joking is with you.[/QUOTE]

I'm not joking. Attempting to illustrate a point, (or as you call it, crusading to man bash and persecute; instead of point out how tired some overplayed swagger tactics are) but not joking in the slightest.

Jul 29, 2010#189

Piotyr

.Amy.;421530][QUOTE=Piotyr;421528][QUOTE=.Amy.;421526][QUOTE=Piotyr;421523][QUOTE=.Amy.;421518][QUOTE=Piotyr said:
Women, amirite? HAHA, I'm not an asshole this is a META ASSHOLE JOKE

Seriously, though, sexism (and other favoritisms based on things other than actual ability) exists in many forms, and if anything, the cases of women blowing things out of proportion are all the more infuriating, because it gives the built in excuse of "See, it's all a big overreaction!"

Jul 29, 2010#190

Krisken

Some men just suffer from testicle guilt. It's like white guilt, but involves less awkward glances.

Jul 29, 2010#191

tegid

.Amy.;421518][QUOTE=Piotyr said:
Women, amirite? HAHA, I'm not an asshole this is a META ASSHOLE JOKE

Seriously, though, sexism (and other favoritisms based on things other than actual ability) exists in many forms, and if anything, the cases of women blowing things out of proportion are all the more infuriating, because it gives the built in excuse of "See, it's all a big overreaction!"

Jul 29, 2010#192

Wasabi Poptart

Do women really blow things out of proportion or is it just men minimizing the problems that women have?

Jul 29, 2010#193

Piotyr

Wasabi Poptart said:
Do women really blow things out of proportion or is it just men minimizing the problems that women have?

Not speaking in a general sense, here, but even on that site there are specific instances of situations that (admittedly out of context) don't appear sexist. Which, then, people can use to generalize in a "See, it's all an overreaction" sense. It's just infuriating because it undermines the actual discussion with a misguided sense of "it's not that big a deal".

Which I was trying to say initially, but the poorly timed joke and wording betrayed my intentions.

Jul 29, 2010#194

Azurephoenix

Wasabi Poptart said:
Do women really blow things out of proportion or is it just men minimizing the problems that women have?

I'm sure the the answer to that question can only be answered on a case by case basis...

Jul 29, 2010#195

Element 117

tegid;421535][QUOTE=.Amy.;421518][QUOTE=Piotyr said:
Women, amirite? HAHA, I'm not an asshole this is a META ASSHOLE JOKE

Seriously, though, sexism (and other favoritisms based on things other than actual ability) exists in many forms, and if anything, the cases of women blowing things out of proportion are all the more infuriating, because it gives the built in excuse of "See, it's all a big overreaction!"

Yeah dude, women are totally more (everything bad ever) than men.[/QUOTE]

Ehhhh... the joke thing I won't dispute, but I'm afraid I don't see what's wrong with the blowing out of proportion bit. Or rather, I don't get your point. He's sayiing: sometimes women exaggerate on certain specific things which may or may not be sexists, and that actually works agains her case. You say he's being sexist because he says 'women' do this instead of 'people'? Well, the thing is men are not the main victims of sexist acts so obviously they won't have much to blow out of proportion![/QUOTE]

Actually, no that's not what I said, nor was it an implied point (my point being, fyi, "if anything a man says women blowing things out of proportion is even more infuriating" is a generalized sweeping statement that comes across saying "when women do it, its obviously worse than when men do it, because they can excuse it!" while ignoring the same excuses men have, in favor of the argument " Well yeah, sometimes some men can be sexist but when women do it thats a FUCKING OUTRAGE!"

Here's a theory: sexism hurts whoever it happens to, and when it happens to men, they might feel social pressure to stfu about it or get yelled at by feminazi liberals. That doesn't make any less or more outrageous when it happens to women, and endless "oh yeah, no you!" remarks miss the point.

Jul 29, 2010#196

tegid

.Amy.;421544][QUOTE=tegid;421535][QUOTE=.Amy.;421518][QUOTE=Piotyr said:
Women, amirite? HAHA, I'm not an asshole this is a META ASSHOLE JOKE

Seriously, though, sexism (and other favoritisms based on things other than actual ability) exists in many forms, and if anything, the cases of women blowing things out of proportion are all the more infuriating, because it gives the built in excuse of "See, it's all a big overreaction!"

Jul 29, 2010#197

Element 117

Were you just socially pressured into stfu?

I'm not "qualified" either, other than by dint of me having an opinion, and voicing it, waiting to see whose opposing viewpoint makes more sense about this kind of shit than mine. If a different perspective/belief helps me understand men/others in general more, then I'll happily listen. But god damn it's maddening to see threads like this devolve into <video joke> instead actually speaking your mind. If I'm guilty about whinging that threads i like are tragically derailed by lulzerz, that's fine, but I think it's a cop out answer.

Jul 29, 2010#198

Piotyr

This is just an opinion of mine, and it could be totally misguided, but I feel that in general, men and women are programmed (either biologically or spiritually, depending on how you swing, I guess) with some odd kind of social disconnect, in such a way that members of one gender have a complete inability to process what is said by members of the other gender. Not necessarily wrong, just different in an unexplainable way. I find that I often have no idea how to understand women, in general.

Now, that doesn't in any way excuse sexist behavior or the centuries-long treatment of women as a subordinate species, of course. That was and is wrong.

EDIT: I may be unqualified to speak on behalf of any female, and completely ignorant. I'm still determined to learn and become a better person anyway, damn it.

Jul 29, 2010#199

Element 117

Piotyr said:
This is just an opinion of mine, and it could be totally misguided, but I feel that in general, men and women are programmed (either biologically or spiritually, depending on how you swing, I guess) with some odd kind of social disconnect, in such a way that members of one gender have a complete inability to process what is said by members of the other gender. Not necessarily wrong, just different in an unexplainable way. I find that I often have no idea how to understand women, in general.

Now, that doesn't in any way excuse sexist behavior or the centuries-long treatment of women as a subordinate species, of course. That was and is wrong.

EDIT: I may be unqualified to speak on behalf of any female, and completely ignorant. I'm still determined to learn and become a better person anyway, damn it.

So how does your opinion address intersex/trans/queer individuals?

Jul 29, 2010#200

Chazwozel

.Amy.;421436][QUOTE=Tinwhistler;421434][QUOTE=.Amy. said:
"what's that? a place where women commiserate on the net? BITCHES! Lets post videos AND CONTROL THE THREAD!"

If only there was some message board women could go to and complain about men's behavior...

[/QUOTE]
So long as its not here, right? Because god knows mentioning places like that here is MAN BASHING, and us non white non men need to know our place here. I'm sure I'm just over reacting to a joke that all men find hilarious.[/QUOTE]

Looks like it's someones special time of the month...

Jul 29, 2010#201

Espy

Oh geeze. Keep it chill people or this thread will get locked up before you can say Creedance Clearwater Revival.

Jul 29, 2010#202

Element 117

Chazwozel;421567][QUOTE=.Amy.;421436][QUOTE=Tinwhistler;421434][QUOTE=.Amy. said:
"what's that? a place where women commiserate on the net? BITCHES! Lets post videos AND CONTROL THE THREAD!"

If only there was some message board women could go to and complain about men's behavior...

Jul 29, 2010#203

Tinwhistler

.Amy.;421544][QUOTE=tegid;421535][QUOTE=.Amy.;421518][QUOTE=Piotyr said:
Women, amirite? HAHA, I'm not an asshole this is a META ASSHOLE JOKE

Seriously, though, sexism (and other favoritisms based on things other than actual ability) exists in many forms, and if anything, the cases of women blowing things out of proportion are all the more infuriating, because it gives the built in excuse of "See, it's all a big overreaction!"

Yeah dude, women are totally more (everything bad ever) than men.[/QUOTE]

Ehhhh... the joke thing I won't dispute, but I'm afraid I don't see what's wrong with the blowing out of proportion bit. Or rather, I don't get your point. He's sayiing: sometimes women exaggerate on certain specific things which may or may not be sexists, and that actually works agains her case. You say he's being sexist because he says 'women' do this instead of 'people'? Well, the thing is men are not the main victims of sexist acts so obviously they won't have much to blow out of proportion![/QUOTE]

Actually, no that's not what I said, nor was it an implied point (my point being, fyi, "if anything a man says women blowing things out of proportion is even more infuriating" is a generalized sweeping statement that comes across saying "when women do it, its obviously worse than when men do it, because they can excuse it!" while ignoring the same excuses men have, in favor of the argument " Well yeah, sometimes some men can be sexist but when women do it thats a FUCKING OUTRAGE!"
[/QUOTE]

See, I read that as "Women blowing things out of proportion makes sexism more infuriating because it allows people a way to weasel out of the discussion" rather than "women blowing things out of proportion is more infuriating than men blowing them out of proportion."

Blowing things out of proportion for the win!

Blowing.

I'm just saying

Jul 29, 2010#204

Troll

Chazwozel;421567][QUOTE=.Amy.;421436][QUOTE=Tinwhistler;421434][QUOTE=.Amy. said:
"what's that? a place where women commiserate on the net? BITCHES! Lets post videos AND CONTROL THE THREAD!"

If only there was some message board women could go to and complain about men's behavior...

Jul 29, 2010#205

Chazwozel

Troll;421571][QUOTE=Chazwozel;421567][QUOTE=.Amy.;421436][QUOTE=Tinwhistler;421434][QUOTE=.Amy. said:
"what's that? a place where women commiserate on the net? BITCHES! Lets post videos AND CONTROL THE THREAD!"

If only there was some message board women could go to and complain about men's behavior...

Jul 29, 2010#206

Rob King

I've been thinking about this stuff for the last few days on and off, and I think I've come to a personal conclusion that 'racism' or 'sexism' in a strict-ish sense might never ever come to a complete end. I believe that official/institutional discrimination will eventually perish, as I hope that the individuals who hate based on race or gender will as well. But there will probably always be racial/gender stereotypes of one sort or another floating around.

Think about it as a matter of Nationality. I'm sure few Americans have any ill feelings toward Canadians, but there are stereotypical 'Canadian' qualities that you think of when we talk about Canadians. Similarly, I picture particular things about Americans, Australians, etc. Most of them are harmless, like the Australian bent for partying, or that Germans are always angry, or that Canadians apologize too damn much.

Is it possible that there will always be racial/sex-based stereotypes, similar to the current national stereotypes? If you were transported 100 years in the future and found out that A) there were still little stereotypes floating around, B) they weren't based in hate, and C) 98% of the population recognized them as silly/likely untrue, how would you feel about it?

Jul 29, 2010#207

Piotyr

.Amy.;421566][QUOTE=Piotyr said:
This is just an opinion of mine, and it could be totally misguided, but I feel that in general, men and women are programmed (either biologically or spiritually, depending on how you swing, I guess) with some odd kind of social disconnect, in such a way that members of one gender have a complete inability to process what is said by members of the other gender. Not necessarily wrong, just different in an unexplainable way. I find that I often have no idea how to understand women, in general.

Now, that doesn't in any way excuse sexist behavior or the centuries-long treatment of women as a subordinate species, of course. That was and is wrong.

EDIT: I may be unqualified to speak on behalf of any female, and completely ignorant. I'm still determined to learn and become a better person anyway, damn it.

So how does your opinion address intersex/trans/queer individuals?[/QUOTE]

Considering my opinion is based on social observation, and I have admittedly little social exposure to many in the GLBT (I?) community, I'm really not sure. I clearly am unable to understand you on a social level. I hesitate to even mention this because of a propensity for everyone to have a token gay friend, but I do have a gay friend, and I do get where he's coming from, for the most part. I know it's dangerous to generalize on any physical level, because of the sheer level of uniqueness, but I still think there's something to it on a basic level. I find it easier to relate to men on a social level than women. I'm not sure why that is.

Jul 29, 2010#208

Element 117

Tinwhistler said:
See, I read that as "Women blowing things out of proportion makes sexism more infuriating because it allows people a way to weasel out of the discussion" rather than "women blowing things out of proportion is more infuriating than men blowing them out of proportion."

clarify?

Jul 29, 2010#209

Chazwozel

I already warned everyone on the last page to chill out. 10 points infraction. You guys want this thread locked keep it up, otherwise play nice.
-Espy

Jul 29, 2010#210

The Lovely Boehner

It is much easier to say someone is blowing things out of proportion and say there is no problem than it is to face the problem and do what you can to fix it.

Jul 29, 2010#211

Gusto

Chaz, reel it in.

Jul 29, 2010#212

Chazwozel

Gusto said:
Chaz, reel it in.

I like apple pies the best, personally.

I took a short term unpaid work experience job as an editing assistant in a small film company.
Now, my job was to edit. It didn’t surprise me I was also asked to make the coffee and lay out snacks for visiting clients. Fair enough – I was the bottom of the pile, after all.
But the only other woman working for the company was the project manager. When I wasn’t making the coffee, she was. And get this – she cleaned the offices every morning.
I asked her why on earth she’d do that if it’s not in her job description. She gave me to answers: because the boss refused to hire a cleaning staff, and the other employees refused to clean. If she didn’t do it, the place would be a “pigsty”.
I told her, let it become a pigsty and see how well they like it, maybe that’ll make them hire a cleaner. But she just shook her head and picked up the broom.
#HFSF, of course.

I don't get it.

Jul 29, 2010#213

Dave

You really hate this place, don't you?

Jul 29, 2010#214

tegid

Man, don't do this... :/

Jul 29, 2010#215

Chazwozel

Dave said:
You really hate this place, don't you?

I don't hate it, but I think the "bitching" stories discredit the actual instances of sexism.

Jul 29, 2010#216

Krisken

Wait, so if someone makes a false accusation, then the actual instances are no longer relevant?

Not sure that is how it works.

Jul 29, 2010#217

tegid

.Amy. said:
Were you just socially pressured into stfu?

I'm not "qualified" either, other than by dint of me having an opinion, and voicing it, waiting to see whose opposing viewpoint makes more sense about this kind of shit than mine. If a different perspective/belief helps me understand men/others in general more, then I'll happily listen. But god damn it's maddening to see threads like this devolve into <video joke> instead actually speaking your mind. If I'm guilty about whinging that threads i like are tragically derailed by lulzerz, that's fine, but I think it's a cop out answer.

The reason I gave myself, and what I meant by not being qualified, was that the sexism I see the females around me suffering is kinda different of what I've been seeing in this thread, and that I don't have a clear enough opinion on this matters nor am I sufficiently sure of it.

The real reason, though, yes I guess you could say it was social pressure somehow. I just felt too much emotion and anger around and I hate in my guts feeling like I'm causing that. So I chickened out.

I'm having a very emotional day, so I guess that's part of it. I'm getting over it now, so lets keep discussing? (I mean that I'm 'back' into the discussion)

---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 PM ----------

Chazwozel;421603][QUOTE=Dave said:
You really hate this place, don't you?

I don't hate it, but I think the "bitching" stories discredit the actual instances of sexism.[/QUOTE]

Then say so instead of trolling.

---------- Post added at 09:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 PM ----------

The sexism I see my girl friends and girlfriend suffer is more on the lines of being regarded partly as sexual objects. It's not a job thing at all. It seems that they actually have it easier at job interviews and all that! I have also seen some female classmates get higher marks because they were females. The catch was that they were given those because 'oh poor women they won't get anywhere in science'. A bit humiliating in my opinion. It may be the same in some instances of getting jobs or getting to work in certain labs... the guy hiring or choosing them thinks, inadvertedly or not, partly or fully, with his penis.

Jul 29, 2010#218

Wasabi Poptart

The Lovely Boner said:
It is much easier to say someone is blowing things out of proportion and say there is no problem than it is to face the problem and do what you can to fix it.

QFT

Jul 29, 2010#219

tegid

Who said there is no problem?

Jul 29, 2010#220

Gusto

It's just one of those easy excuses to make in life.

"They're overreacting - I disregard them."

Although not quite as pompous as my favourite:

"They're just jealous - I disregard them."

Jul 29, 2010#221

Espy

Haters always hating though, so thats gotta go into the equation Gus.

Jul 29, 2010#222

Gusto

Truth, but that's almost another example!

There are a LOT of people, where as soon as they can marginalize a person as overreacting, jealous, or a "hater", assume that their protestations can just be ignored.

Jul 29, 2010#223

The Lovely Boehner

I actually agree with Chaz that that story about the person cleaning up after everyone else isn't really sexist. It could be anyone that has a lower breaking point of filth than others. I wouldn't post those stories if I were in charge of that blog! But I'm not. That doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of good examples of casual sexism on that site. I still think more good examples than not.

Jul 29, 2010#224

Gusto

Certainly within any group of people, there will be some who have legitimate complaints and others who are just feeling victimized. The story way back on the first page about the women playing the instrument was an example of that, I thought. It's hard to say for sure whether the man who thought she was learning was commenting on her sloppy performance, or was making some hurtful commentary about "wimmin can't play no musics", but to ASSUME that he was startin' shit is kind of a leap to make.

If nothing else, can we all agree that maybe this blog is kinda... sensationalist?

Jul 29, 2010#225

The Lovely Boehner

Gusto said:
If nothing else, can we all agree that maybe this blog is kinda... sensationalist?

I think it's more of a place to complain. It's also a place to bring more personalized stories about sexism that happens every day, to lots of people, in lots of places.

Jul 29, 2010#226

Gusto

Yeah but without any kind of editorial standards, we DO have a lot of those ambiguous stories.

Jul 29, 2010#227

Chibibar

I learn a while back (from having female friends) that "venting" works differently from male and female.

Note: The following are from my viewpoint and from my female friends. Not all male and female are built the same way. Kinda like the book "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus" (not a bad read to get the basic idea)

Most of the time, men vent and hope to get a solution.
Women vent, just to vent. kinda like "Get off their chest" and it is all good.

The problem arise when Women vent to a man. The man automatically assume she is seeking a solution (unless they learn a while back just to listen) and thus compile the "venting" and figure out a solution. If the solution is so simple or the problem seem to be "not worth the effort" the man would normally just say "you are just taking way out of context"

This is the same for women when a man vent to a women. The women will just listen and then move on while the man is waiting for a solution. (generally)

Of course there are time where both sex just want to vent and do not seek solution. This is where the "miscommunication" comes into play. The site is just a place to vent like Not Always Right | Funny & Stupid Customer Quotes but since the OP site is more gender base, men and women interpret it differently.

Of course the deeper issue would be that sometimes men are oblivious (not an excuse but it is true) there are time when a girl tells me something and it just goes totally over my head (totally didn't get it or got the wrong message) and of course the women might get offended cause the "man" ignoring her or thought he is being sexist while in some cases, the woman is not speaking the right "code" for the response she is looking for.

After reading a few (couple of pages) I can see some of the miscommunication and "seeing too much" into it. Of course some ARE legit and pure sexist or even harassment, but most seem to be just generally clueless to either sex.

that is what I see.

Jul 29, 2010#228

Rob King

I think that's a gross oversimplification. I personally rant and vent more often to blow off steam than to seek a solution, as I'm normally fully capable of forming a solution on my own. If I want help with a solution, I generally outline a course of action I've been thinking about, and ask for feeback and/or alternatives. Similarly, I've had plenty of female friends who rant in search of a solution.

But, as sensible people might realize, it's impossible to generalize even when looking at an individual, let alone an entire gender. I don't know a single person on God's green earth that rants exclusively in one format over the other. Not even the terribly negative people that I know who just rant (read: complain) about everything.

Jul 29, 2010#229

The Lovely Boehner

Yeah, what Chibi said is just more of the bullshit "oh women are just so different, these problems are just because they're so fundamentally different"

Jul 29, 2010#230

Chibibar

The Lovely Boner said:
Yeah, what Chibi said is just more of the bullshit "oh women are just so different, these problems are just because they're so fundamentally different"

Jul 29, 2010#231

Hailey Knight

I was waiting at the bus terminal and writing in my notebook. There were a few people nearby, one being a young woman, probably 22. I heard some guy come up to her. "You know, I don't normally do this, but..." Proceeding to ask her if she'd want to go to dinner or something. She said she wasn't interested and thanked him.

Should've ended there.

Onward we go! "Well, why not?" She said she wasn't interested again. "You have a man?" She said no. "Well, so if you don't have a man, you're available." -_- She started some stuff that sounded like BS, about how there was a guy she liked but hadn't talked to him yet, and the guy near her kept pushing--basically, if she wasn't with a guy, there was no reason not to go with him.

Jul 29, 2010#232

GasBandit

Chazwozel said:
Looks like it's someones special time of the month...

That was a pretty good troll, but a better one would have been, "somewhere, because of this thread, a stack of clothes is going unfolded."

Jul 29, 2010#233

Element 117

GasBandit;421726][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
Looks like it's someones special time of the month...

That was a pretty good troll, but a better one would have been, "somewhere, because of this thread, a stack of clothes is going unfolded."[/QUOTE]

why am I unsurprised that when it came time to drive your point home you came up short? Very unsatisfying.

Jul 29, 2010#234

Wasabi Poptart

Chibibar;421693][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Yeah, what Chibi said is just more of the bullshit "oh women are just so different, these problems are just because they're so fundamentally different"

Jul 29, 2010#235

crono1224

There are basic differences between men and women, but there are also differences between the sexes. Clearly not all the men on this board think the same, so why would women?

Jul 29, 2010#236

Hailey Knight

crono1224 said:
There are basic differences between men and women, but there are also differences between the sexes.

*applause*

Jul 29, 2010#237

Rob King

escushion said:
I was waiting at the bus terminal and writing in my notebook. There were a few people nearby, one being a young woman, probably 22. I heard some guy come up to her. "You know, I don't normally do this, but..." Proceeding to ask her if she'd want to go to dinner or something. She said she wasn't interested and thanked him.

Should've ended there.

Onward we go! "Well, why not?" She said she wasn't interested again. "You have a man?" She said no. "Well, so if you don't have a man, you're available." -_- She started some stuff that sounded like BS, about how there was a guy she liked but hadn't talked to him yet, and the guy near her kept pushing--basically, if she wasn't with a guy, there was no reason not to go with him.

See ... that's the kind of shit I can't stand. Does this guy have such an ego that he thinks that he is manliness prime? Three billion women in the world would date him if only he asked, and they had been wise enough to forgo other relationships.

That or they're lesbian, in which case I'm sure he believes he has the right to watch.

Jul 29, 2010#238

crono1224

escushion;421778][QUOTE=crono1224 said:
There are basic differences between men and women, but there are also differences between the sexes.

*applause*[/QUOTE]

Figured I break down the thread into a sentence, then we can get back to derailing it

Jul 29, 2010#239

Hailey Knight

crono1224;421786][QUOTE=escushion;421778][QUOTE=crono1224 said:
There are basic differences between men and women, but there are also differences between the sexes.

*applause*[/QUOTE]

Figured I break down the thread into a sentence, then we can get back to derailing it

.[/QUOTE]

:/ I don't have the heart to tell you...

Jul 29, 2010#240

Wasabi Poptart

Oh just do it.

Jul 29, 2010#241

Reboneer

crono1224 said:
Figured I break down the thread into a sentence, then we can get back to derailing it .

I fully support this idea.

Jul 29, 2010#242

Element 117

Reboneer;421811][QUOTE=crono1224 said:
Figured I break down the thread into a sentence, then we can get back to derailing it .

I fully support this idea.

[/QUOTE]

That would mean something, if you were relevant to the univ- Oh look, shiny thing!

Jul 29, 2010#243

Reboneer

Jul 29, 2010#244

crono1224

escushion;421806][QUOTE=crono1224;421786][QUOTE=escushion;421778][QUOTE=crono1224 said:
There are basic differences between men and women, but there are also differences between the sexes.

*applause*[/QUOTE]

Figured I break down the thread into a sentence, then we can get back to derailing it

.[/QUOTE]

:/ I don't have the heart to tell you...[/QUOTE]

Boo I see I poorly wrote the second part of my sentence it should have been "differences between people of the same sex". Well either way derailment activate, "No-no its pronounced a-nal-ra-pist".

Jul 29, 2010#245

Reboneer

Jul 30, 2010#246

Tinwhistler

Wasabi Poptart;421767][QUOTE=Chibibar;421693][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Yeah, what Chibi said is just more of the bullshit "oh women are just so different, these problems are just because they're so fundamentally different"

heh. I don't think it is pure BS personally consider that women are different in terms of their logic and things. If human do think somewhat similar, then men and women wouldn't have so much problem with each other (what I have observe) the successful couple (long term commitment and marriage) usually understand each other or at least know what the other is talking about or at least crack the "code" of course not all code are the same. What I finally learn about my wife may not apply to other women's thinking.[/QUOTE]

So why isn't it just that different people have different logic? My mother and I certainly do not think of things on the same terms. Neither do my best friend and I. Since the three of us are women, by what you've posted, shouldn't we all have the same logic?
I think different people look at things differently, have varying styles of communication, and handle stress/conflict differently. It has very little to do with being male or female.[/QUOTE]

Here comes the science:
10 Big Differences Between Men’s and Women’s Brains | Masters of Healthcare
To sum up
* Men tend to focus on one hemisphere of the brain while processing information, while women tend to use both. This makes dyslexia more common in men, for instance.
* inferior-parietal lobule (IPL) is typically significantly larger in men
* Two sections of the brain responsible for language were found to be larger in women
* Women typically have a larger deep limbic system than men
* in men, the right amygdala is activated and in women, the left amygdala is activated. The amygdala is the area of the brain activated during pain, and it is theorized that this is why men tend to have higher pain thresholds
* women have a thicker parietal region of the brain, which hinders the ability to mentally rotate objects, which partially explains why men tend to have stronger spatial abilities

Men and women's brains ARE physiologically different, and as a consequence, each sees the world slightly differently. That doesn't make one gender 'better' than the other (though each gender has areas that it tends to excel at), and certainly is no excuse for sexism. But isn't it better to recognize these trends and differences than to pretend that they don't exist?

Jul 30, 2010#247

Tinwhistler

Amorous Eyes;421886][QUOTE=Tinwhistler said:
Here comes the science:
10 Big Differences Between Men’s and Women’s Brains | Masters of Healthcare
To sum up
* Men tend to focus on one hemisphere of the brain while processing information, while women tend to use both. This makes dyslexia more common in men, for instance.
* inferior-parietal lobule (IPL) is typically significantly larger in men
* Two sections of the brain responsible for language were found to be larger in women
* Women typically have a larger deep limbic system than men
* in men, the right amygdala is activated and in women, the left amygdala is activated. The amygdala is the area of the brain activated during pain, and it is theorized that this is why men tend to have higher pain thresholds
* women have a thicker parietal region of the brain, which hinders the ability to mentally rotate objects, which partially explains why men tend to have stronger spatial abilities

Men and women's brains ARE physiologically different, and as a consequence, each sees the world slightly differently. That doesn't make one gender 'better' than the other (though each gender has areas that it tends to excel at), and certainly is no excuse for sexism. But isn't it better to recognize these trends and differences than to pretend that they don't exist?

They have started doing studies to see how the brain of a person diagnosed with gender dysphoria differs from the men and women without. While (as far as I am aware of) these studies are still very much in its early stages the preliminary conclusion has been that in the brains examined that they really are 'wired' differently and the size of certain lobes come closer to the dimensions of the 'other' gender rather than the born sex.

Regardless of the outcome of this study I know who I am but it's still fascinating stuff.[/QUOTE]

I've read some stuff around that, too. Definitely fascinating stuff. It goes a long way to explaining the "I've always felt like a man/women trapped in the wrong body" kind of thing that is often heard when people with gender identity issues give interviews. I don't think there's a good official clinical term for the range of gender identity issues people can have, as both "gender dysphoria" and "gender identity disorder" tend to imply that there's something 'wrong' that can be 'fixed', rather than something 'different' that can be examined and understood.

Jul 30, 2010#248

Necronic

Tinwhistler;421884][QUOTE=Wasabi Poptart;421767][QUOTE=Chibibar;421693][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Yeah, what Chibi said is just more of the bullshit "oh women are just so different, these problems are just because they're so fundamentally different"

Jul 30, 2010#249

Officer_Charon

Amorous Eyes;421893][QUOTE=Tinwhistler;421890][QUOTE=Amorous Eyes said:
They have started doing studies to see how the brain of a person diagnosed with gender dysphoria differs from the men and women without. While (as far as I am aware of) these studies are still very much in its early stages the preliminary conclusion has been that in the brains examined that they really are 'wired' differently and the size of certain lobes come closer to the dimensions of the 'other' gender rather than the born sex.

Regardless of the outcome of this study I know who I am but it's still fascinating stuff.

I've read some stuff around that, too. Definitely fascinating stuff. It goes a long way to explaining the "I've always felt like a man/women trapped in the wrong body" kind of thing that is often heard when people with gender identity issues give interviews. I don't think there's a good official clinical term for the range of gender identity issues people can have, as both "gender dysphoria" and "gender identity disorder" tend to imply that there's something 'wrong' that can be 'fixed', rather than something 'different' that can be examined and understood.[/QUOTE]

There is quite a bit of opposition against those terms, because it makes it seems we're all mentally ill, but there's not really a good alternative. The upside though is that because it is listed as such a lot of it is covered by health care.

[/QUOTE]

I had wondered if that was going to be the case... when you start quantifying things like physical indicators of possible gender dysphoria, you open up the doors for folks to either label TG folks as defective or ill, as well as setting up a possible screening target later on.

.... or maybe I need to get some sleep and not post when I'm so tired.

Jul 30, 2010#250

Wasabi Poptart

I understand there are differences in male and female brains, but I also tend to believe these differences can be affected by environment and experience. The way I look at things is going to be different than the way someone else, male or female, is going to perceive them because I am an individual with my own ideas, experiences, and objectives. Sure, my brain structure will play a part, but IMO it is not the only determining factor.

Jul 30, 2010#251

Wasabi Poptart

I agree that it is a combination of both. Things aren't that cut and dried to be completely one or the other.

Jul 30, 2010#252

Tinwhistler

Wasabi Poptart said:
I understand there are differences in male and female brains, but I also tend to believe these differences can be affected by environment and experience. The way I look at things is going to be different than the way someone else, male or female, is going to perceive them because I am an individual with my own ideas, experiences, and objectives. Sure, my brain structure will play a part, but IMO it is not the only determining factor.

Jul 30, 2010#253

Chibibar

Wasabi Poptart said:
I agree that it is a combination of both. Things aren't that cut and dried to be completely one or the other.

I believe it is both, but there are some basic aspect of male and female that are same across each gender that can't be change (at least not without medication, surgery, and therapy, but even then, somethings can't be change.... yet)

---------- Post added at 10:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 AM ----------

Tinwhistler;421970][QUOTE=Wasabi Poptart said:
I understand there are differences in male and female brains, but I also tend to believe these differences can be affected by environment and experience. The way I look at things is going to be different than the way someone else, male or female, is going to perceive them because I am an individual with my own ideas, experiences, and objectives. Sure, my brain structure will play a part, but IMO it is not the only determining factor.

(get out of my head)

After re-reading everything again, I believe you hit it in the head (pun intended)

As individuals, we are vastly different from each other. The female population of our forum thinks differently from one female to another. Same goes the male counterpart.

But when you start comparing say... all females in Dallas vs all male in Dallas, you can start getting a general trend between the sexes. It is NOT 100%, but you can definitely see the difference between male and female. That is where my generalization comes from really.

Of course, some nurture factor DO come into play if the female were brought up as "tomboy" (I hated that term) and have more "male" thinking or a guy with more female influence think more like a female than male.

Jul 30, 2010#254

Wasabi Poptart

Tinwhistler;421970][QUOTE=Wasabi Poptart said:
I understand there are differences in male and female brains, but I also tend to believe these differences can be affected by environment and experience. The way I look at things is going to be different than the way someone else, male or female, is going to perceive them because I am an individual with my own ideas, experiences, and objectives. Sure, my brain structure will play a part, but IMO it is not the only determining factor.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Jul 30, 2010#255

Chazwozel

Wasabi Poptart said:
I understand there are differences in male and female brains, but I also tend to believe these differences can be affected by environment and experience. The way I look at things is going to be different than the way someone else, male or female, is going to perceive them because I am an individual with my own ideas, experiences, and objectives. Sure, my brain structure will play a part, but IMO it is not the only determining factor.

Yeah, the way your pituitary gland and hormone secretion works is completely different from a man's as well... You also are evolutionarily designed to make and take care of babies, while men evolved to get your attention quick enough to mate with you.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

Tinwhistler;421970][QUOTE=Wasabi Poptart said:
I understand there are differences in male and female brains, but I also tend to believe these differences can be affected by environment and experience. The way I look at things is going to be different than the way someone else, male or female, is going to perceive them because I am an individual with my own ideas, experiences, and objectives. Sure, my brain structure will play a part, but IMO it is not the only determining factor.

No dispute from me. The brain is incredibly malleable.

But to bring it back to Chibis initial statement, what i got from what he said was basically a logical argument: "If there were no gender differences between how men and women think, then we wouldn't have these gender stereotypes because everyone would think similarly", which , to some degree, is true. These differences in brain structure between the genders create trends in behavior and ways of thinking. Individuals may vary dramatically from these trends, but over a larger general population, these trends are quantifiable.[/QUOTE]

Men and women function on massively different physiological scales. It ranges from life expectancy to the types of cancers one is predisposed to. Men and women have differences. Period. Which is why I can't stand feminism to a point. There are certain things men do (are evolutionarily made to do) better than women and visa versa. Instead of trying to equalize the genders entirely we should celebrate and encourage our differences.

Jul 30, 2010#256

Rob King

I remember someone getting on about that a while ago on a show or something. He was talking about how a feminist got up in his face and started telling him about how she could do anything a man could just as well. He stepped back and said "No, you can't. And I can't do some things that women can do. Do you expect me to have a fucking baby in nine months?"

It can go a bit far. Men and women are different, and perhaps it's possible to plot the gender-trends on a graph or whatever, but sometimes it goes too far the other way, too, and then it becomes "Men and women are so irreconcilably different."

Jul 30, 2010#257

makare

I don't see how the physical ability to carry a child translates into the inequality women suffer in the work arena.

You can carry a child so you cant be a ceo? what are we talking about exactly here, what are these things women cant do?

Jul 30, 2010#258

Rob King

makare said:
I don't see how the physical ability to carry a child translates into the inequality women suffer in the work arena.

You can carry a child so you cant be a ceo? what are we talking about exactly here, what are these things women cant do?

Impregnate a woman? Grow a fierce mustache?

I'm not talking about equality here. I'm a little bit talking about how there are differences between the sexes, but I'm mostly just making a joke at this point.

Jul 30, 2010#259

makare

those are also not job things.

also i know a woman with a fu manchu who would beg to differ.

Jul 30, 2010#260

Rob King

See the edit:

I'm not talking about equality here. I'm a little bit talking about how there are differences between the sexes, but I'm mostly just making a joke at this point.

Jul 30, 2010#261

makare

it's ok. im not raging or anything.

Jul 30, 2010#262

phil

Chicks make horrible male strippers.

Jul 30, 2010#263

Element 117

Rob King said:
See the edit:

I'm not talking about equality here. I'm a little bit talking about how there are differences between the sexes, but I'm mostly just making a joke at this point.

Click to expand...

Jul 30, 2010#264

Rob King

phil said:
Chicks make horrible male strippers.

Strangely enough, the reverse is not always true.

Jul 30, 2010#265

Tinwhistler

makare said:
I don't see how the physical ability to carry a child translates into the inequality women suffer in the work arena.

You can carry a child so you cant be a ceo? what are we talking about exactly here, what are these things women cant do?

Women are making progress. Slowly, yes, but still making progress. There are more than a dozen high powered women ceos out there now in the fortune 500. Sure, it's only a handful, but it's more than none, and the numbers grow year after year. This last election, we narrowly had a woman President or Vice President. That would have been unheard of in the past. Change happens, but it happens slowly. It takes time for entrenched ideas to die out (usually along with the aging population that refuses to give them up). We can look to the future and hope that a woman will have the exact same opportunities for any field she wishes to go into that a man does. The reverse for men will hopefully also be true for those fields that tend to be women-dominated (though, I believe there are less of those than male-dominated fields).

Women will probably always lag in some fields, however--just as men do in other fields. While there are some exceptional women MMA fighters, for instance, the sport takes a level of aggression and strength that is not typical to the gender. I expect that there will always be more men attracted to this kind of sport, as only one example. We can't look to the future and hope that all jobs will be equally participated in by both women and men, because simply, some jobs will tend to appeal to each gender's base nature more than some others.

Jul 30, 2010#266

phil

he's younger than me, and I feel weird knowing that.

Jul 30, 2010#267

makare

thats my point. the fact that the change can happen at all kind of kicks the women and men are what they are born and nothing else theory right in its vagiballs.

Jul 30, 2010#268

Rob King

makare said:
thats my point. the fact that the change can happen at all kind of kicks the women and men are what they are born and nothing else theory right in its vagiballs.

Jul 30, 2010#269

phil

I hear women make better assassins 'cause people don't expect them to.

Jul 30, 2010#270

makare

Rob King;422199][QUOTE=makare said:
thats my point. the fact that the change can happen at all kind of kicks the women and men are what they are born and nothing else theory right in its vagiballs.

I'm pretty sure that's not what's being said.

Circumstances can change. Culture can change. Women find themselves treated as equals to men, not subservient.

But equal does not mean the same. I sincerely believe that men on the whole will continue to make better soldiers, and that women will make better caregivers (just to give two examples). It's how our race has evolved, and that's why I believe that gender roles will persist. The gender roles didn't just happen spontaneously. But we have come too far as a race for gender roles to be concrete rules, hemming in the thousands upon thousands of outliers.

Women might be predisposed toward something. But when it comes down to a woman, generalizations are unfair.[/QUOTE]

Yes men and women are different, we learn that the first time we play doctor under the playground slide, my point is- so what? Once society gave the OK for men to stay home and be caregivers they do fine. If that role is specifically designated to women for whatever reason why can men do it? Why are women able to do male jobs? Maybe they don't do them the same way but the result is the same.

I think it is both nature and nurture that makes a person but mostly nurture.

Jul 30, 2010#271

Hailey Knight

Rob King;422199][QUOTE=makare said:
thats my point. the fact that the change can happen at all kind of kicks the women and men are what they are born and nothing else theory right in its vagiballs.

Jul 30, 2010#272

makare

mmm im a ninja

Jul 30, 2010#273

Element 117

if only there was a website where women could go and talk about how hard those differences can be some times.....

And if only there was such a place for guys!

(( well, not really the exact same, but))

Jul 30, 2010#274

Rob King

makare said:
Yes men and women are different, we learn that the first time we play doctor under the playground slide, my point is- so what? Once society gave the OK for men to stay home and be caregivers they do fine. If that role is specifically designated to women for whatever reason why can men do it? Why are women able to do male jobs? Maybe they don't do them the same way but the result is the same.

I think it is both nature and nurture that makes a person but mostly nurture.

The nature vs. nurture is way bigger than me, so I won't even go there.

As for 'so what?' It's not really 'so anything' to me. Like I said, I believe in equality of all individuals regardless of race or gender or anything else. I'm not suggesting that we hem anybody in. I'm just saying that even if we're equal, and even if a man and a woman are allowed to aspire the same things, and even while we try to level the playing field so that they can achieve the same things, we shouldn't be deluded into thinking that we are the same. There are inherent differences. Do they matter? I don't know. But they're there.

And there are differences all over the place. I believe in the equality of all races too, but compared to whites, blacks have 1/10 the number of skin cancer cases, and native Americans have a much higher rate of alcoholism. Do those differences matter? Again, probably not, but they're worth acknowledging.

That's it. Equality is important to me, but I just don't want to see people thinking that equality means sameness. I don't like seeing that anywhere, but the fact is that it's a rather ubiquitous misconception. It comes up in the education system, race debates, feminism, &c. and it's a damning and harmful mistake to be making when we look at things on the culture-wide level.

Jul 31, 2010#275

Chazwozel

makare;422208][QUOTE=Rob King;422199][QUOTE=makare said:
thats my point. the fact that the change can happen at all kind of kicks the women and men are what they are born and nothing else theory right in its vagiballs.

Jul 31, 2010#276

Bones

Chazwozel said:
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

and called it Yankee doodle dandy?

Jul 31, 2010#277

The Lovely Boehner

.Amy. said:
if only there was a website where women could go and talk about how hard those differences can be some times.....

And if only there was such a place for guys!

(( well, not really the exact same, but))

The safe haven for men to talk about their problems is called EVERYWHERE IN THE FUCKING WORLD, LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE PLACE

Jul 31, 2010#278

Chazwozel

The Lovely Boner;422255][QUOTE=.Amy. said:
if only there was a website where women could go and talk about how hard those differences can be some times.....

And if only there was such a place for guys!

(( well, not really the exact same, but))

The safe haven for men to talk about their problems is called EVERYWHERE IN THE FUCKING WORLD, LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE PLACE[/QUOTE]

I'm a member of a Yahoo online community board for partners of Borderlines. One of the men recently posted his 101 Things I'm Tired Of list. I was so impressed with how clearly he expressed the pain, the sorrow, the anger, the sense of utter futility that he feels in his relationship with his wife. He generously agreed to allow me to share his pain with you.
1. I'm tired of being accused of being passive aggressive because I simply forgot to lower the toilet seat.
2. I'm tired of having things I say twisted around so that you perceive they hurt you more.
3. I'm tired of you always playing the victim and the one that was wronged.
4. I'm tired of the infrequent apologies from you.
5. I'm tired of the fighting.
6. I'm tired of the infrequent sex.
7. I'm tired of being criticized with "you never's" and "you don't do ____ anymore/enough."
8. I'm tired of the snide, confrontational attitude when we fight.
9. I'm tired of being interrupted when I'm trying to tell my side.
10. I'm tired of your ultra-sensitivity about everything.
11. I'm tired of being told I don't do enough around the house.
12. I'm tired of you being sick at least one week out of every month.
13. I'm tired of having a wife that I can't flirt with and make sexual innuendos with -- without her getting mad.
14. I'm tired of remembering all the fights and hurts and things that have been said.
15. I'm tired of always trying to be the peacemaker and the first to apologize.
16. I'm tired of feeling like a meal ticket.
17. I'm tired of being asked the same questions, over and over -- yet you flip out when I repeat myself.
18. I'm tired of the double standards.
19. I'm tired of the hypocrisy.
20. I'm tired of walking on eggshells, always trying not to irritate you.
21. I'm tired of the 50/50 chance that if we drink, we'll end up in a fight.
22. I'm tired of feeling like you're only attracted to me when you're drinking.
23. I'm tired of rubbing your back, feet or giving messages that aren't reciprocated.
24. I'm tired of giving oral sex that isn't reciprocated.
25. I'm tired of having a wife that won't participate in a fundamental part (sex) of a relationship.
26. I'm tired of how complicated sex has become.
27. I'm tired of hoping things will go back to what they were in the beginning.
28. I'm tired of thinking about all of it.
29. I'm tired of the empty promises of change.
30. I'm tired of the small changes that never last.
31. I'm tired of always being accused of things.
32. I'm tired of your irrational behavior.
33. I'm tired of your accusations.
34. I'm tired of your rage.
35. I'm tired of your drinking.
36. I'm tired of being treated like a child.
37. I'm tired of being bossed around.
38. I'm tired of being alone in a marriage.
39. I'm tired of not laughing.
40. I'm tired of the constant criticism.
41. I'm tired of being nagged about every little thing.
42. I'm tired of being bullied.
43. I'm tired of not being appreciated.
44. I'm tired of being sad.
45. I'm tired of the tension in our house.
46. I'm tired of fighting about sex.
47. I'm tired of the awkwardness.
48. I'm tired of not being desired.
49. I'm tired of not being listened to.
50. I'm tired of being accused of being a know-it-all.
51. I'm tired of you being more affectionate to the cat than to me.
52. I'm tired of never being given the benefit of the doubt.
53. I'm tired of being accused of saying things I didn't say.
54. I'm tired of doing things to be sweet that go unnoticed -- tacos, Gatorade, etc.
55. I'm tired of you being verbally abusive, then accusing me of abuse.
56. I'm tired of seeming to be the only one that notices or cares about the relationship.
57. I'm tired of being picked on over little things.
58. I'm tired of being belittled.
59. I'm tired of not feeling like a man.
60. I'm tired of being insulted.
61. I'm tired of being put down.
62. I'm tired of the instability in our relationship.
63. I'm tired of remembering who we used to be.
64. I'm tired of missing the romantic moments we used to share.
65. I'm tired of making an effort that gets criticized.
66. I'm tired of feeling like I got the bait and switch.
67. I'm tired of my ideas and wants being criticized while I support yours.
68. I'm tired of feeling like I have no say in things.
69. I'm tired of not being able to buy things I want, when I tell you all the time, "go ahead, if you want it."
70. I'm tired of waiting for things to change.
71. I'm tired of being bored.
72. I'm tired of the rut we're in.
73. I'm tired of being blamed for everything.
74. I'm tired of being in limbo about our future.
75. I'm tired of being indecisive.
76. I'm tired of the huge communication problems we have.
77. I'm tired of our conflicting personalities.
78. I'm tired of feeling like immature teenagers in this relationship.
79. I'm tired of your immaturity.
80. I'm tired of your inadequate conflict resolution skills.
81. I'm tired of your inability to be sympathetic to my views, feelings, etc.
82. I'm tired of your selfishness.
83. I'm tired of your negativity.
84. I'm tired of your unhappiness.
85. I'm tired of your insecurities.
86. I'm tired of you complaining every year about wanting a new job -- but never doing anything about it.
87. I'm tired of you not wanting to do anything together.
88. I'm tired of you getting to be the sensitive one -- I'm not supposed to have feelings.
89. I'm tired of you reading too much into things and coming to negative conclusions.
90. I'm tired of having a difficult relationship with you.
91. I'm tired of the distance.
92. I'm tired of not being in a loving relationship.
93. I'm tired of not being a team.
94. I'm tired of being questioned about every little thing.
95. I'm tired of being spineless.
96. I'm tired of not being respected.
97. I'm tired of being told how to do everything.
98. I'm tired of not having the spark we had in the beginning.
99. I'm tired of thinking of the loss of spark and how to get it back.
100. I'm tired of the fighting that has ruined every trip we've been on since Las Vegas.
101. I'm tired of remembering our disastrous wedding night and disastrous honeymoon.
I feel so sad when I read this list. It so adds it all up, doesn't it?
The list shows clearly how hard we try to make relationships with a wounded Borderline work; how we give ourselves away an inch at a time (ending up ashamed of ourselves); the unfairness of the Borderline's misperceptions and later criticisms, belittling statements and off-the-wall rages (for such seemingly small things).
It's interesting to me to see how the list progresses -- from the beginning statements of the Borderline's hurtful behavior; into an awareness of what's happening to the partner (the bullying, lack of intimacy, lack of sexual love, lack of respect); sliding into humiliation (not feeling like a man, feeling belittled, insulted and put down); finishing up with feelling downright tricked.
Since I coach partners of Borderlines now, I especially noted #'s 100 and 101. They show how soon the Borderline behaviors showed up in this man's relationship with his wife -- their honeymoon night.
This isn't unusual. Remember that Borderline hurtful behavior is triggered by intimacy -- our intimacy with them. It scares the heck out of them. They're afraid to let anyone too close (old fears from what happened to them in their past) and they're scared they'll be abandoned (again, old fears from what happened to them in their past).
One woman told me the Borderline behavior showed up the afternoon of her wedding reception -- her new husband was furiously jealous of her even laughing with one of the groomsmen. And it was downhill from there.
How do you feel when you read this list of behaviors? Have you experienced behavior like this from your partner? Click the Comments link below to share your story with us. Your story might help another man.

My advice: time to nut up or shut up.

Jul 31, 2010#279

makare

Chazwozel;422251][QUOTE=makare;422208][QUOTE=Rob King;422199][QUOTE=makare said:
thats my point. the fact that the change can happen at all kind of kicks the women and men are what they are born and nothing else theory right in its vagiballs.

Jul 31, 2010#280

Hailey Knight

How to avoid that list, Borderline or otherwise: Don't marry the wrong person.

Jul 31, 2010#281

The Lovely Boehner

Chaz posts something that he doesn't know a fucking thing about, news at 11

Jul 31, 2010#282

Espy

escushion said:
How to avoid that list, Borderline or otherwise: Don't marry the wrong person.

True that homes.

Jul 31, 2010#283

sixpackshaker

The Lovely Boner said:
Chaz posts something that he doesn't know a fucking thing about, news at 11

And what is your expertise in feminism?

Jul 31, 2010#284

Krisken

sixpackshaker;422342][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Chaz posts something that he doesn't know a fucking thing about, news at 11

And what is your expertise in feminism?[/QUOTE]

Jul 31, 2010#285

The Lovely Boehner

sixpackshaker;422342][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Chaz posts something that he doesn't know a fucking thing about, news at 11

Jul 31, 2010#286

Chazwozel

The Lovely Boner;422345][QUOTE=sixpackshaker;422342][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Chaz posts something that he doesn't know a fucking thing about, news at 11

And what is your expertise in feminism?[/QUOTE]

I'm saying I think he posted that list thinking it's a hurr hurr, women are so crazy thing, when it's actually about marrying someone with a legit psychological/mental disorder.

Unless he's implying just being a woman is a mental disorder in which case it's just more lol chaz is a horrible human being, same as always.[/QUOTE]

Actually that list was made by a man.

I'm not a horrible human being at all. I have been involved in research that has the potential to save lives, and now I teach young people and encourage them to be scientists. Just because I don't hold the same pussy-ass uber-San Fransisco view of the world like you do doesn't make me a bad person. For someone that preaches tolerance of others so much, you sure are a really close-minded person.

I respect women as my equals. I don't really feel like I need to explain myself any further than that.

Jul 31, 2010#287

Chazwozel

Amorous Eyes;422350][QUOTE=Chazwozel;422348][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner;422345][QUOTE=sixpackshaker;422342][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Chaz posts something that he doesn't know a fucking thing about, news at 11

Jul 31, 2010#288

Chazwozel

Amorous Eyes;422356][QUOTE=Chazwozel;422352][QUOTE=Amorous Eyes;422350][QUOTE=Chazwozel;422348][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner;422345][QUOTE=sixpackshaker;422342][QUOTE=The Lovely Boner said:
Chaz posts something that he doesn't know a fucking thing about, news at 11

And what is your expertise in feminism?[/QUOTE]

I'm saying I think he posted that list thinking it's a hurr hurr, women are so crazy thing, when it's actually about marrying someone with a legit psychological/mental disorder.

Unless he's implying just being a woman is a mental disorder in which case it's just more lol chaz is a horrible human being, same as always.[/QUOTE]

Actually that list was made by a man.[/QUOTE]

Duh, we established that. lrn2rd?[/QUOTE]

So... time to nut up or shut up?[/QUOTE]

So.. you shut up then? Or are you of the belief that being female is a mental illness? If so.. still.. shut up.[/QUOTE]

Where the hell did you .... what the hell are you smoking?

---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 PM ----------

my fault, I'm male

Jul 31, 2010#289

Iaculus

So... ah... what was your reason for posting that list then, Chaz?

Jul 31, 2010#290

Troll

Chazwozel said:
Just because I don't hold the same pussy-ass uber-San Fransisco view of the world like you do doesn't make me a bad person.

Whoa, leave SF out of it. It's awesome here, and whatever stereotype about us you have is baseless.

Jul 31, 2010#291

Iaculus

Unless it involves sealions.

There, I can confirm that the rumours are accurate.

Jul 31, 2010#292

Chazwozel

Troll;422388][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
Just because I don't hold the same pussy-ass uber-San Fransisco view of the world like you do doesn't make me a bad person.

Whoa, leave SF out of it. It's awesome here, and whatever stereotype about us you have is baseless.[/QUOTE]

Charlie is the embodiment of San Francisco. He can be cool sometimes, but other times it seems like he needs a full port glass to enjoy the smell of his own farts.

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------

Iaculus said:
Unless it involves sealions.

There, I can confirm that the rumours are accurate.

To show that men can be whiny babies too. The dude clearly needs to grow a pair and talk to his wife instead of weaseling cop out lists of why he feels bad.

Jul 31, 2010#293

Troll

Chazwozel;422393][QUOTE=Troll;422388][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
Just because I don't hold the same pussy-ass uber-San Fransisco view of the world like you do doesn't make me a bad person.

Whoa, leave SF out of it. It's awesome here, and whatever stereotype about us you have is baseless.[/QUOTE]

Jul 31, 2010#294

Chazwozel

Troll;422397][QUOTE=Chazwozel;422393][QUOTE=Troll;422388][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
Just because I don't hold the same pussy-ass uber-San Fransisco view of the world like you do doesn't make me a bad person.

Whoa, leave SF out of it. It's awesome here, and whatever stereotype about us you have is baseless.[/QUOTE]

Charlie is the embodiment of San Francisco. He can be cool sometimes, but other times it seems like he needs a full port glass to enjoy the smell of his own farts.
[/QUOTE]

:humph:

At least we don't boo Santa.[/QUOTE]

No doubt. I hate Philly with a passion. The only good thing about Philly is the food.

---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 PM ----------

This thread needs more: The Alphabet of Manliness

And of course the classic:

Men Are Better Than Women, by Dick Masterson

Jul 31, 2010#295

Dave

You might be surprised at how much of that list applies to me and I've been married 17 years.

Jul 31, 2010#296

Chazwozel

Dave said:
You might be surprised at how much of that list applies to me and I've been married 17 years.

Well then I suggest it's time you sit down and talk to your wife about the issues you're having, or get a divorce matey. Seriously, if my wife berated everything I do, I'd speak up about it.

Jul 31, 2010#297

makare

that list seems to cover pretty much every gripe someone can have in any relationship. I figure it must be quantity that matters.

Jul 31, 2010#298

Espy

Troll;422388][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
Just because I don't hold the same pussy-ass uber-San Fransisco view of the world like you do doesn't make me a bad person.

Whoa, leave SF out of it. It's awesome here, and whatever stereotype about us you have is baseless.[/QUOTE]

I dunno dude, I lived in San Fran for a year, and while I love it (it's probably my favorite place I've lived) it's nutjob ratio is higher than anywhere else I've been. Still a great city though, just... nutty.

Aug 1, 2010#299

Troll

Espy;422423][QUOTE=Troll;422388][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:
Just because I don't hold the same pussy-ass uber-San Fransisco view of the world like you do doesn't make me a bad person.

Aug 2, 2010#300

fade

I understand it's a site for ranting, but it has a lot of what I call forced isms. Sometimes the reason isn't that you're a woman/noncaucasian/old. Sometimes it's because you did the wrong thing. Sometimes it's because the person doing it to you is a equal opportunity asshole. If you want to find an ism, you'll find an ism. It's not hard to mold something into one.

I personally do not get sexism at all. Maybe it's because I had 4 sisters who beat me up regularly. I don't know. The idea that a woman is less than me is just beyond my comprehension, literally. NOW. That being said, as I've noted before, I don't think men and women are the same. Nature, nurture, who cares. We're different physiologically and psychologically. AND THAT'S A GOOD THING. People have taken equality to the extreme of sexual homogenization, and that's just stupid. But men are generally stronger than women. Women tend to be better caregivers. That's the world, love it or hate it. Doesn't mean they HAVE to be. That is where sexism comes in.

In short, sexism exists, and it's stupid. But so does stretching for sexism, and so does ridiculously homogenizing.

Aug 2, 2010#301

Cajungal

^Yup.

This all reminds me of a friend of my brother's who I hung out with recently. We were all at a bar together talking, and after I while I realize this is a very aggressive woman who's pretty eager to find sexism where there isn't any.

So this big guy--another friend of my brother--comes in and talks to us. He mentions that he just came from dinner with a girl that was in the university music program with them. This is a teeny tiny barely 5-foot girl, skinny, frail... not so very strong compared to a 6'3" guy with bass-player forearms. So anyway he mentions that this tiny girl punched him as a joke and ended up bruising his arm. He says something like "I can't believe that little girl could hurt me" and of course, this other woman takes that to mean that all women are weak. It was... painful to watch this guy (who's very nice and not at all disrespectful of women) struggle to explain himself for such a harmless comment.

Aug 2, 2010#302

crono1224

Those overly reaching isms are awful and they make the person look just as bad as the person they are accusing, sometimes worst if they are reaching where there is nothing. It diminishes the real cases of sexism or racism or whatever other ism there is by watering down the whole system.

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