figmentPez

Staff member
What upsets me about this most is that I don't think many people would be talking about how awful it was for Chris Rock to make that joke if Will Smith hadn't stood up and slapped him. If Mr. Smith had said something about the joke being inappropriate after the fact, almost no one would heard about it, and if he'd just stood up and told Mr. Rock verbally that the joke was unacceptable, then I'm reasonably certain that Mr. Smith would have been mocked for not getting the joke.

It's only because he resorted to violence that a large number of people are paying attention to the issue, and that really bothers me.
 
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I agree that Chris shouldn't have make that joke. And Will has all the right to defend his wife. But that is something that could have be resolved without violence.
 
This is something that I talked about in my coming out thread. It's making fun of someone for how they look. It's not cool. Chris Rock was probably put out there to stall for time for one reason or another and was just working the room like a comedian does at regular gigs. He may not have known about Jada's struggle. I have seen the video where it cuts to them and Will is laughing at first, but Jada looks upset. It is likely, in my mind, that Will was trying to not make a big deal out of it, but when he saw how it affected his wife, he got angry.

It is a situation that could have been resolved without violence. It likely would have been enough of a scandal for Will to have walked on stage and confronted Chris with words right then. The slap was a step beyond. Was it undeserved? No, and I think Chris knows that too, which is why he has declined to file charges.

My hope is that a conversation opens up about this. About how BOTH of them were wrong and for what reasons.
 
Maybe I'm the barbarian here but I don't think the exchange was all that shameful. Chris Rock crossed a line and got socked for it. Should Will Smith had done it? Obviously not, but I don't see it as that bad that he did, and Chris Rock took it like a champ and didn't even seem mad about it, giving a look that almost could be read as "ok maybe I deserved it"
 
Maybe I'm the barbarian here but I don't think the exchange was all that shameful. Chris Rock crossed a line and got socked for it. Should Will Smith had done it? Obviously not, but I don't see it as that bad that he did, and Chris Rock took it like a champ and didn't even seem mad about it, giving a look that almost could be read as "ok maybe I deserved it"
Yeah, people are reacting as if Smith beat him within an inch of his life when it was just one simple smack. Of course, Chris tried doubling down with "It was just a GI Jane joke!"

Smith definitely overreacted in the heat of the moment and it should've been handled privately. But Rock deserved that smack. His joke was way out of line.
 
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Yeah, people are reacting as if Smith beat him within an inch of his life when it was just one simple smack. Of course, Chris tried doubling down with "It was just a GI Jane joke!"

Smith definitely overreacted in the heat of the moment and it should've been handled privately. But Rock deserved that smack. His joke was way out of line.
Now, if Will Smith wants to go smack all those terrible netflix comedians with show titles like "Triggered" and "Cancelled" I'm all for that
 
Eh, it's somewhat conflicting, isn't it?
On the one hand, we're all taught to stand up for ourselves and our loved ones, etc etc.
On the other hand, most of us are taught that violence isn't the answer and you should never resort to violence first.

There's a whole bunch of cultural baggage to look at.
is it emasculating and feminine and proof of the failure of modern society that "we" think hitting a guy for insulting your wife is out of line? Or is it proof we're finally evolving past archaic barbaric hypermasculine tendencies to solve everything with physical violence?
Is it even sensible to say using physical violence is always wrong, when you consider that mental/verbal/emotional abuse can easily be just as hurtful or worse?
Is it hypocritical and sensitive to let a joke from a comedian get to you, when you know the whole point of the Oscar presenters these days is to make fun of the audience? Ricky Gervais said worse things about plenty of celebs.

What changes things a bit - for me - is that Will walked up to Chris and had plenty of time to think. If he'd been standing next to him and it had been an instant reflex, like what? WHAP, that's one thing. But hearing the joke, understanding, thinking, then getting up, walking over to Chris, and punching him 10 seconds later? That should've been plenty of time to think of another way to show your displeasure than just smacking him.

If a customer insulted my wife, and I decked him, I wouldn't get a public discussion about "is it OK to hit the other guy?", I'd get severance papers.
If a kid on the playground hit another kid and afterwards said, yeah but he insulted my mom, he wouldn't get a whole discussion about whether or not it was right - he'd get a note sent to their teacher.

The fact that so many people think the smack was justified, goes to show how much our culture has internalized and accepted violence as normal and acceptable behavior. Frankly, it isn't, and shouldn't be. We're constantly reinforcing in our youth the idea that violence is wrong, except when it's against bad people or people who hurt you - then it's OK. At the same time, we're still trying to further vilify and sexualize nudity, in all contexts everywhere and always.
I'd much rather have a world where we DON'T constantly reinforce those two ideas, but on the contrary inverse them. Nudity is a-okay in most environments and cases, violence is inherently bad and really only a very rare thing. Of course, what that leads to you can see in geopolitics right now - a country willing to smack weaker others around can just do that, and the wiser and more peaceful countries just stand around and watch.
 
Eh, it's somewhat conflicting, isn't it?
On the one hand, we're all taught to stand up for ourselves and our loved ones, etc etc.
On the other hand, most of us are taught that violence isn't the answer and you should never resort to violence first.

There's a whole bunch of cultural baggage to look at.
is it emasculating and feminine and proof of the failure of modern society that "we" think hitting a guy for insulting your wife is out of line? Or is it proof we're finally evolving past archaic barbaric hypermasculine tendencies to solve everything with physical violence?
Is it even sensible to say using physical violence is always wrong, when you consider that mental/verbal/emotional abuse can easily be just as hurtful or worse?
Is it hypocritical and sensitive to let a joke from a comedian get to you, when you know the whole point of the Oscar presenters these days is to make fun of the audience? Ricky Gervais said worse things about plenty of celebs.

What changes things a bit - for me - is that Will walked up to Chris and had plenty of time to think. If he'd been standing next to him and it had been an instant reflex, like what? WHAP, that's one thing. But hearing the joke, understanding, thinking, then getting up, walking over to Chris, and punching him 10 seconds later? That should've been plenty of time to think of another way to show your displeasure than just smacking him.

If a customer insulted my wife, and I decked him, I wouldn't get a public discussion about "is it OK to hit the other guy?", I'd get severance papers.
If a kid on the playground hit another kid and afterwards said, yeah but he insulted my mom, he wouldn't get a whole discussion about whether or not it was right - he'd get a note sent to their teacher.

The fact that so many people think the smack was justified, goes to show how much our culture has internalized and accepted violence as normal and acceptable behavior. Frankly, it isn't, and shouldn't be. We're constantly reinforcing in our youth the idea that violence is wrong, except when it's against bad people or people who hurt you - then it's OK. At the same time, we're still trying to further vilify and sexualize nudity, in all contexts everywhere and always.
I'd much rather have a world where we DON'T constantly reinforce those two ideas, but on the contrary inverse them. Nudity is a-okay in most environments and cases, violence is inherently bad and really only a very rare thing. Of course, what that leads to you can see in geopolitics right now - a country willing to smack weaker others around can just do that, and the wiser and more peaceful countries just stand around and watch.
Counterpoint: some people have never gotten smacked and probably need to.
 
The fact that so many people think the smack was justified, goes to show how much our culture has internalized and accepted violence as normal and acceptable behavior.
To add even more nuance to the situation, try to imagine what the reaction would have been like if either or both participants had not been Black. Or male. For instance, how different would the public reaction have been if Will had slapped Amy Schumer?

--Patrick
 
And while I definitely agree with "the guy deserved a smack" - and I think that of a LOT of people in a LOT of situations - I don't actually do it. Because, you know, violence.

Chris was giving a performance. A comedy show. He's protected pretty well through the First Amendment and by other free speech laws. Critiquing art by using physical violence against the artist is...Kind of wrong. Slippery slope all you want, but where do you draw the line? If a comedian makes a (bad, insulting, inappropriate) joke about, say, overweight people - is any fat guy in the front row excused for walking onto the stage and smacking him? If we're in the USA - is it OK to shoot him?

Do I think it's appropriate to joke about a person's physical signs of a disease? Well, no. Wrong audience, insensitive joke. Does he deserve to get some opposition? Sure. Should that be physical...Eghggghh. Had Will gone on stage for his Oscar, and then given a 5 minute lecture on insensitivity and how good comedy is about laughing with the rich and powerful, not making fun of the weak or defenseless; how picking on (non-voluntary) physical traits is just bullying and a sign of a lack of creativity, he could've given Chris a smackdown that might've been just as good for TV, without getting so much blowback.
 
And while I definitely agree with "the guy deserved a smack" - and I think that of a LOT of people in a LOT of situations - I don't actually do it. Because, you know, violence.

Chris was giving a performance. A comedy show. He's protected pretty well through the First Amendment and by other free speech laws. Critiquing art by using physical violence against the artist is...Kind of wrong. Slippery slope all you want, but where do you draw the line? If a comedian makes a (bad, insulting, inappropriate) joke about, say, overweight people - is any fat guy in the front row excused for walking onto the stage and smacking him? If we're in the USA - is it OK to shoot him?

Do I think it's appropriate to joke about a person's physical signs of a disease? Well, no. Wrong audience, insensitive joke. Does he deserve to get some opposition? Sure. Should that be physical...Eghggghh. Had Will gone on stage for his Oscar, and then given a 5 minute lecture on insensitivity and how good comedy is about laughing with the rich and powerful, not making fun of the weak or defenseless; how picking on (non-voluntary) physical traits is just bullying and a sign of a lack of creativity, he could've given Chris a smackdown that might've been just as good for TV, without getting so much blowback.
Will Smith and Chris Rock also know each other. The first amendment is about government* censorship, this was a private matter that just happened to play out in public.


*if it was the government doing it then it would be recognized as perfectly fine because the state holds a monopoly on violence, but I'll try not to go into any anarchistic rants
 
"I'm sure that this 1/8" bolt from Princess Auto (Harbor Freight) can hold all this weight.....get back here you cowards!" ~ work things.
 
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I tend to use it for people belong shitty, and especially being shitty in group - like hamstering TP at the beginning of Covid, or flour and sunflower oil now,.... People being sucky sheep, bandwagoning, if you want.
 
I still feel that LA needs to put Will in jail for a week for a misdemeanor assault. I don't think this amounts to a felony, but damn there has to be "some" consequence for his actions.
 
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