Anita Sarkesian is back with a new Tropes vs Women video. Personally, I'm still a fan and am curious to see whether any video game studios will listen to her critiques. She does make some good arguments in her overall critiques.
Video Game News and Miscellany
- Thread starter figmentPez
- Start date
You assume video game studios watch internet celebrity videos.
Or any major studio, for that matter.
GasBandit
Staff member
I'm only 2 minutes into the video and already there's been two bullshit examples.
"Grab a whore and enjoy yourself, muahahahahahaha." This is obviously a villain saying this. Villain bad.
Assassin's creed, the ransoming of the prostitute - again, she is kidnapped, ransomed, and murdered by enemies - not by the player. The player is trying to stop this atrocity. If it had been a raggedy street beggar, or a dandy princeling, it would not have changed the narration of the scene.
Basically what I'm taking away from this is "you're not allowed to use women in video games as anything other than infallible protagonists."
"Grab a whore and enjoy yourself, muahahahahahaha." This is obviously a villain saying this. Villain bad.
Assassin's creed, the ransoming of the prostitute - again, she is kidnapped, ransomed, and murdered by enemies - not by the player. The player is trying to stop this atrocity. If it had been a raggedy street beggar, or a dandy princeling, it would not have changed the narration of the scene.
Basically what I'm taking away from this is "you're not allowed to use women in video games as anything other than infallible protagonists."
If you had actually taken the time to watch the video, you'd see that her argument is both that the women are completely powerless in these scenarios and that it's a cheap way to show that the villain is bad. Which it is. It's just cheap, bad writing. And she wasn't saying anything about women as infallible protagonists, just that they're window dressing to the world as a whole. Christ dude, do you even bother trying to listen to someone's critiques or do you just jump to conclusions so quickly that you won't even take the time to listen?
Anita's still making the same terrible example mistakes. She's doing better though. The commentary on the advertisements of L.A. Noire and Hitman: Blood Money was spot on.[DOUBLEPOST=1409010123,1409009892][/DOUBLEPOST]
They JUST got bought by Google. I'm guessing Youtube wanted nothing to do with it once they realized the service couldn't be run in the same way.
GasBandit
Staff member
I'm still watching the video, assneck. Calm the fuck down with white knighting your special internet crush.
And with the asinine insult against me personally, I'm out. Fuck off.
GasBandit
Staff member
Yes, there is violence against women as "set dressing." There's also violence against men as set dressing, violence against inanimate objects, even violence against the player character in a cut scene as set dressing. The fallacy here is that it looks like she's accusing video game makers of using these "tropes" exclusively as their only go-to for edginess.
Was the dragging death of Carlos in Saints Row 2 indicative of a systemic tendency of "violence against men" to make their world seem more alive and violent?[DOUBLEPOST=1409010608,1409010573][/DOUBLEPOST]
Was the dragging death of Carlos in Saints Row 2 indicative of a systemic tendency of "violence against men" to make their world seem more alive and violent?[DOUBLEPOST=1409010608,1409010573][/DOUBLEPOST]
Probably for the best. Sorry you can't handle criticism of your sacred cow.
I was primed and ready to respond to this with probably the most hateful, disgusting personal attack I've ever thought to say to someone. It would've gotten a lot of "what the fuck, Nick?!" reactions and maybe even a temp-ban. That's how angry I was. It was eight words. Eight simple words that would've probably caused you to blow a gasket at me (certainly others would do so to me) or maybe even make you cry for all I know. Just eight words. But I didn't. Instead, I walked away from the computer and did the yoga that I had planned for myself tonight. And during that whole practice, I flexed every muscle possible, putting all that anger into the workout. Now, I'm feeling much better.
So here's the thing: your belligerent, rude responses are not helping anyone. Not you, not me, not anyone trying to have a rational discussion about a matter that personally, I'd like to have a civilized discourse about. I think there is a great deal of sexism and misandary within the video game medium (and many other mediums, like comic books). Are all of Sarkeesian's arguments sound? No. I won't try to put her on a pedestal and say all arguments are perfectly sound. I'm not white knighting her, I agree with some, maybe most - not all - of her points. But she does raise many good points that are worth discussing.
Frankly speaking, throwing hurtful labels at me like "white knight" or calling her my "sacred cow" is counter-productive and honestly no worse than the kind of "arguments" we see out of Charlie most times.
I'm sorry for the way I responded to your reaction. I read it like you had just turned off the video after 2 minutes. I'm willing to refrain from personal attacks and insults if you're willing to actually discuss this matter like an adult.
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GasBandit
Staff member
Nick, you never have to worry about making me cry. That was a privilege reserved to one person, who doesn't even have it any more. I've been an asshole a lot longer than I've known you, and I've gotten every personal attack thrown at me in the book. If anything, I probably would have leveraged what you said against you.
Now then. I'm sorry I bit your head off.
As to the video, the "women as decoration" series stems from a flawed perception that women being used as set pieces is somehow unique or egregious. Maybe it is, as you said, lazy writing, but it's because the biological imperative to "protect the women and children" is a strong one, so it's an easy button to press. Imagine what else would be used if violence on children were not as beyond the pale as they make it - and yet myself and hundreds of thousands of other Skyrim players explicitly download a mod that makes children killable in their game. Does that mean that there's a patterned and systemic gamer prejudice against children, or a predilection to harm children inherent in gaming? No. And as I referenced before, violence against men is just as much a plot-advancing device/background decoration/set piece as violence against women.
Call of Duty has youexperience the execution of a man from the first person perspective of the victim, as he is rendered helpless and driven to said execution - past the executions-in-progress of other innocents - men and women alike.
In Saints Row 2, your lieutenant/protege Carlos is kidnapped by an enemy gang and dragged for miles behind their truck while you chase them in another vehicle. By the time you catch them, Carlos is so badly injured and maimed that you, the protagonist, feel the only right thing to do is put him out of his misery with a bullet in the head. Imagine what Anita would have to say about this scene if Carlos had been female.
I don't have a video for this one, because it's a terrible game and I don't want to sift through a bunch of crap to find it, but in Ride to Hell: Retribution, the protagonist sees his own brother murdered before him in much the same way as the Assassin's Creed prostitute in Sarkeesian's video is. But because it was a brother, and not a sister, it doesn't figure into the equation.
Mafia 2 has attempted male-on-male prison shower rape. I'd love for somebody to tell me how THAT's supposed to titillate the much-reviled "straight male demographic."
I could go on for a long time, but I've got a friend bugging me, so I'll have to come back later.
Leaks supposedly from the ESRB videos used to rate the game (hence the random boob/butt shots of trophies), Smash Bros 3DS:
http://imgur.com/a/PzeCw
Imgur because it's a lot of screens. If these are real, we have Shulk, Bowser Jr (in the clown vehicle from Mario World), and Duck Hunt Dog for some reason (I'm guessing an Olimar clone). Also Dr. Mario and I think Ganondorf's in there somewhere. Some aren't shown in these pics but I've seen them elsewhere. YouTube posts are getting shut down quickly now that more people are finding out about the leaks.
http://imgur.com/a/PzeCw
Imgur because it's a lot of screens. If these are real, we have Shulk, Bowser Jr (in the clown vehicle from Mario World), and Duck Hunt Dog for some reason (I'm guessing an Olimar clone). Also Dr. Mario and I think Ganondorf's in there somewhere. Some aren't shown in these pics but I've seen them elsewhere. YouTube posts are getting shut down quickly now that more people are finding out about the leaks.
I would have thought that Dr. Mario and Dark Pit would just be alternate palettes. Odd.
So, the rumor about Duck Hunt Dog is true, huh? He better have his laugh as a move or taunt of some kind.
There's no reason I can see for Dark Pit to be a character aside from Sakurai having done Kid Icarus Uprising--it would make more sense to me if he pulled in Hades or Medusa and just made Dark Pit a costume or palette, but Pit has no black palette, which suggested Dark Pit early on.
These leaks seem pretty real. I'm actually excited about Bowser Jr; I didn't think I'd want that character, but I do. Duck Hunt Dog is just going to be a CPU opponent that I smack over and over and over. There are childhood issues I need to resolve.
EDIT: Nintendo confirms the leaks by having their videos removed from Youtube
.The leaker, an employee of Nintendo of America, has been discovered, fired, and is getting sued. Nintendo's always been pretty good about keeping this stuff under wraps, so I expect they're mighty pissed. Sakurai probably had some cool reveal videos left. Hopefully those will still come out for the official announcement.
You call me cranky.
I have a bad feeling PT is going to be better than the actual game.
I don't know. Kojima has never really put out a BAD game. A few weird ones maybe, but I can't think of a game of his that didn't...
- look good
- play well
- have emotion
- sound excellent
Kojima's Silent Hill game is easily going to be the best since Silent Hill 4. He has the talent to do that much. The real question is will it FEEL like a Silent Hill game?
http://www.siliconera.com/2014/08/26/capcom-suing-koei-tecmo-patent-infringement/
Software patents are sweet.
Jesus Christ Capcom.
Software patents are sweet.
Jesus Christ Capcom.
GasBandit
Staff member
Am I reading that right? Capcom is asserting they patented the software expansion pack in 2002?
What's next, is someone going to claim they patented the "software that depicts one human committing violence against another human being?"
GasBandit
Staff member
The tweet is. The roster isn't. Nintendo already found the employee that leaked it and fired him, after getting the videos taken down from Youtube.
(yes it's fake)
We're also apparently getting DLC characters eventually.
Personally, I'd just give the big guys enough poise that they won't be affected as much by faster, lighter character attacks. Why is Bowser getting stunned by Fox's kicks? He's fucking Bowser! Even Mario had to find special ways of beating this guy. Bowser should just be able to power through minor attacks like that.
Same, I loved Bowser and Ganondorf. I'm excited to try out the newcomers this time around, though.
They're more desperate for money than I thought.
He is never getting hired for PR anything ever again. Hope he enjoyed his lulz; he just fucked up his career.
I will look forward to eventual DLC characters. Wouldn't mind if they did that with tracks in Mario Kart as well.
EDIT: Just checked the Mario Kart thread; wish granted!
On Twitter, Tim Schafer has pointed out this video as one that anyone making games should watch.
And almost immediately, out have come the crybabies screaming over the loss of their hero.
Also, another reason why not to trust EA/Bioware...
Remember Sim City 4 sucking a dick with very limited city sizes? Supposedly it's too hard to code.... however, modders have found a way
http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/29650-project-orion-3k-extended-boundary/
Remember Sim City 4 sucking a dick with very limited city sizes? Supposedly it's too hard to code.... however, modders have found a way
http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/29650-project-orion-3k-extended-boundary/
Did they fix the totaly broken "AI"? If not,still dont care.
Nope
Also Sim 4 is coming out next week. It has 89 less features than Sim 3... AAAAND
http://kotaku.com/the-sims-4s-pc-requirements-are-non-existent-1627404002
Shouldn't this game have been a mobile? Or did that Dungeon Keeper fiasco make them change their plans?
Never change EA. Never change.
Also Sim 4 is coming out next week. It has 89 less features than Sim 3... AAAAND
http://kotaku.com/the-sims-4s-pc-requirements-are-non-existent-1627404002
Shouldn't this game have been a mobile? Or did that Dungeon Keeper fiasco make them change their plans?
Never change EA. Never change.