Everyday sexual harassment of women
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
- Start date
I wish it was as simple as guys being too dumb to know the difference between "That's a cool hat" versus "Yeah, I'd fuck you." But it's not; when pressed, a lot of them don't even know why they do it. It's really just IRL trolling.
Yeah, it really is. For so many reasons. Some of them being that people think it isn't. That says a lot about the culture we take in and find acceptable.[DOUBLEPOST=1409421081,1409421000][/DOUBLEPOST]
I wouldn't call it trolling, I think it's people blind to the realization that the person they are addressing as a object for their own pleasure is as valuable a human as they are. Which is very problematic.
GasBandit
Staff member
"It's worse because many people think it isn't worse." That's circuitous logic at its best. Explain to me explicitly why a decal of a tied up woman is worse than a decal of a child about to get run over.
You misunderstand, or more likely I didn't phrase it right. It's extra horrible because so many people have bought into a culture that views women as objects for men to use as they see fit (although they are generally oblivious to this, because of that little problem of privilege that I know you loathe) that they see something like that and can't see why it would be problematic (i.e. "Oh sure, it's in bad taste but it's not that bad").
I truly don't expect you to agree, but no amount of telling me how "it's not a big deal" is going to change the fact that that I see a very disturbing cultural problem this sort of thing and the reaction to it from a section of the male population exemplifies.
figmentPez
Staff member
And the follow up question should be, how much of this is nature and how much is nurture? If we raise men to be think differently, can they view women as people, even when those women are wearing bikinis? Or is it an inevitability of biology that showing a lot of skin will cause most men to think a certain way?
Personally, I hope, and largely suspect, that this is a case of nurture. We can change the way we think, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's easy, or simple.
GasBandit
Staff member
This implies that the viewer identifies with and approves the concept of the woman tied up, which I don't agree with. If anything, the creator of the decal chose to make it of a woman because he agrees with you - the decal would not have had the same jarring impact if it had depicted a man tied up, because of a long reinforced cultural trope of it being particularly villainous to victimize a woman, as opposed to a man - the man is expected to "be able to defend himself" in our cultural zeitgeist. Snidely Whiplash ties Nell to the tracks, not Dudley. A woman tied up in the back of a truck is reprehensible. An image of a woman tied up in the back of a truck is storytelling. Maybe it's a story you don't want to hear, but that does not make the author an oppressor of women.
To suggest otherwise is to claim someone, be it the creator or the viewer, is unable to distinguish fiction from reality, or is at least influenced by fiction to a great degree - the same argument that says violent video games cause school shootings.
Heh. Now you're starting to sound like @GasBandit.
It's the literal embodiment of nurture influencing Nature.
Or a sign that some people haven't learned how to sublimate their id well enough to function in a polite society.
--Patrick
Okay?
That implies that there's something for them to gain. Sometimes this is true and sometimes it isn't. They know acting that way isn't going to attract someone, but do it anyway.
GasBandit
Staff member
ARGUE DAMN YOU
Quick, somebody find JCM!
Aren't we all JCM?
Of course, you're not! The very idea!Psh. I'm not.
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GasBandit
Staff member
ALL YOU CAN UPGRADE IS STRENF?!He's been busy.
(saw this while playing a couple nights ago)
--Patrick
GasBandit
Staff member
once you take away all of male privilege, yeah, the wage gap is nothin' at all! whew, we cracked it!
also re: the fappening... you ever wonder why there's no celeb dick pics leaked yet??? hum.....
To be fair, there are multiple male celebrities who have had leaked nudes and/or sex tapes come out, such as Fred Durst, Bret Favre, and multiple politicians. The big difference being, women aren't actively seeking out these pictures for sexual gratification, rather the media itself is searching for them for the sheer sentimentalization of them.
GasBandit
Staff member
It's almost as if the different genders tend to want different things as erotic stimuli. But that'd be crazy talk.
GasBandit
Staff member
Yes, my sarcastic point was in support of yours, and aimed at Charlie's "Why for no dick pics" thing.
Necronic
Staff member
Her name rang a bell so I googled her and read her wiki page. Man....that abuse ladled on her was completely inappropriate and unnaceptable
The persecuted have an unfortunate habit of asking for equality from the persecutor(s) but in actuality demanding retribution. That is, they aren't ever going to be happy until they've experienced the schadenfreude of watching their former oppressors suffer.
I am not accusing Sarkeesian of this (I have no real standing to do so, as I don't remember more than a few minutes of her videos), but this is a common enough feature of most things labeled as "critiques" that her videos have that quality ascribed to them prior to ever pressing the "play" button, and that colors the context and interpretation of the remainder.
--Patrick
Speaking from personal experience only, she seems much less polarizing among actual developers and and publishers than she is among the vocal section of her critics in the gaming community, even with those who don't agree with her entirely. No one really disagrees that there is a problem, they just disagree on its severity and the best way to deal with it (of note, almost all female developers/producers I've met say, "get more women in the industry into creative control and production, not just as code monkeys or artists or marketers").
Been wanting to comment on the whole Sarkeesian situation, but after writing up a long post I feel I got lost in my points and ultimately looked like a bit of a hypocrite.
All I will say is Sarkeesian has a right to her opinions or bringing knowledge about sexism in gaming. This is no reason to send her death threats. She does not deserve that.
All I will say is Sarkeesian has a right to her opinions or bringing knowledge about sexism in gaming. This is no reason to send her death threats. She does not deserve that.
I think that's a vocal fraction as opposed to an overall climate among persecuted groups.
FTFY