The sad thing is, they still will blame everyone but themselves. It was not that they failed, or Trump failed, it's those damn "blacks and mexicans still ruining everything and not going back to africa and mexico.", and it will be near impossible to point out otherwise while they sit in their own echo chambers.
a Trump vs Clinton United States Presidential Election in 2016
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
- Start date
Failure is a relative term. If you are a rich white man in Kansas, it went spectacularly well.
Yes, but neither of the local ones have postdoc/professor/researcher openings in the field for the moment, sorry
Bah!Yes, but neither of the local ones have postdoc/professor/researcher openings in the field for the moment, sorry
This is my concern as well; KKK on the bridge and related violence is what I expect over at least the next couple months.
GasBandit
Staff member
Our spanish station's program director has the morning show on our Hispanic/Regional Mexican format.
She took 10 calls from spanish speaking hispanics.
Half of them said they voted for trump.
Because they opposed gay marriage and didn't want a woman president - that they wanted women back at home taking care of the kids.
The PD is absolutely agog.
She took 10 calls from spanish speaking hispanics.
Half of them said they voted for trump.
Because they opposed gay marriage and didn't want a woman president - that they wanted women back at home taking care of the kids.
The PD is absolutely agog.
I appreciate you trying to cheer me up, but I still think mass-deportations are bad.
Really? I mean, half of the calls is of course an over-representation, but this doesn't surprise me in the last. I work with a lot of Muslim men in my line of work, and I've heard quite a few of them say they'd've voted Trump if given the choice. The y just plain don't think the deportation and racism will be "all that bad" and that it's "mainly" about improving life by making manpower mean something again, sending women back home.
The local news stations took special care to talk to female black trump voters absolutely ecstatic about the results as they came in.
I know a lot of people claim this is all about race or immigration , but at least here in rust belt Michigan it's more about the economy and the perceived damage from trade agreements and outsourcing.
A lot of people are really overlooking how damaging NAFTA has been to the automotive industry and they expect TPP to double down on that.
Sure, race, misogyny, immigration and other things are concerning, but when you can't hold down a job they take a back seat to feeding your family.
Clinton kept saying stuff about jobs, but Obama never made good on his promises (in their eyes) and since clinton supports the trade and climate agreements they know she's not for their jobs either.
So sure, you can go ahead and continue to dismiss these people as backwards, blame shifting, uneducated, racists, but I think you'd be continuing down the same path that led trump to win.
There's a lot of baggage, and hangers on who want the backwards stuff.
But for most trump supporters it's the economy and jobs.
And before you claim Obama created jobs, keep in mind he changed the way jobs are counted and created incentives for employers to turn full time positions into several smaller part time positions. They may be technically employed, but often they are underemployed due to insurance and benefit changes requiring more benefits at lower hours.
Again, that's not the whole story, but pretending they aren't real people with real problems not of their own making will only lead to people misunderestimating them again and again.
Here's one of the biggest stats out of this. Trump won with 1% less votes than Romney got last election. Clinton had 8% less than Obama.
I think that Clinton as the candidate coupled with some very, very elaborate voter suppression (looking at you Ohio) explains that stat.
I see a lot of anger at third party voters but that shit's misplaced.
I think that Clinton as the candidate coupled with some very, very elaborate voter suppression (looking at you Ohio) explains that stat.
I see a lot of anger at third party voters but that shit's misplaced.
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Because the immigration process in Canada is famously onerous, and recent events are not likely to change that. Probably the opposite.
--Patrick
It's not the centrist people they'll be suppressing, though, is it?[DOUBLEPOST=1478714557,1478714464][/DOUBLEPOST]
We are worth the effort.
No they won't. Democrats don't vote during midterms. This is a 4 year deal.
Also, has Utah given @GasBandit wet dreams?
I mean, he still came third, but McMullin [insert double entendre] yadda yadda
I mean, he still came third, but McMullin [insert double entendre] yadda yadda
GasBandit
Staff member
That really did catch my eye when McMullin got within a percent of Clinton.
I saw them tied at some point last night (somewhere around 30% reporting I think) and got guessing that he'd wind up second.
But I also noticed that cities were regularly reporting later than towns throughout the country. If I'd noticed that earlier - or remembered it from last time, or the time before, or before - then I wouldn't have guessed that.
The fundamental political divide in both our countries shows up as urban/rural(and just suburban)
The problem is that racism/immigration etc is an easy way to say "it's THEIR fault you don't have jobs" without solving the problem.
Taking Trump's multiple business failures into account, do you believe he can make good on any of those employment intentions or that it's more likely he promises the moon and shows his ass?
This was a very good read: Getting Back To Work The Day After, by Ken White
Edit: Google cache version, since his site is getting death-hugged.
Well if he gets rid of parts of the ACA that require more employers to provide healthcare to more part time workers, then job hours will go up, and more jobs will be created. This will reverse a lot of the underemployment that occurred during obamas administration.
If he doesn't sign the TPP then some jobs will continue to exist in the US that would otherwise be farmed out to a foreign country.
I'm not suggesting that he should do these things, but there are a multitude of ways to affect jobs that already align with goals of his platform.
While I'm personally opposed to TTIP (my opinion on TTP is limited since it doesn't affect me and I'm uniformed about it) for a variety of reasons, I still acknowledge that literally every free trade agreement ever in modern history has created, not destroyed, jobs on both ends. Of course, there's often a shift in the type of jobs. Closing American borders and insisting everything is Made in America might create new factory jobs... but won't help regular consumers because no way will the paycheck keep up with rising costs because of more expensive labor.
And I can see how scrapping those parts might destroy the part-time jobs and turn them back into full time; I don't see how that'll magically create jobs worth doing.
And I can see how scrapping those parts might destroy the part-time jobs and turn them back into full time; I don't see how that'll magically create jobs worth doing.
I think both @stienman and @Zero Esc are right: it's a little of column A and a little of column B. We have towns all across America that are dying. You can call it trite, but the lyrics of "Allentown" are still true, and that song was written in 1981. It's not that America was ever "great" or perfect, but the majority of Americans could ignore it because didn't need a degree to get a local job and get on with your life. That was something we were supposedly promised, but as Gas can tell you, is NOT a guaranteed right anywhere in our Constitution. And so we have a lot of angry, despondent people who don't want to have to leave their home, and a bunch of politicians (on all sides) leading them by the nose saying, if elected, THEY can bring that that America.
But they can't. That America is gone and it's not coming back. We're not going to suddenly become a coal nation again. We're not going to start accepting less than minimum wage and no health care or retirement to compete with over-seas manufacturing. Unless we can innovate new industries that we can train and employ Americans in, we're stuck. And the elected officials aren't going to help, because the people who are making tons of money from moving things over-seas and beholden to things like oil and warfare, fund their campaigns.
But the officials aren't going to tell you that. Instead, we get things like, "It's not that we shipped away your jobs, it's the immigrants taking YOUR jobs! It's not a lack of stability that lead to your divorce, it's those queers threatening YOUR marriage! Do you remember when all you had to be was white to know your voice was always the most important? Look at all these coloreds, these women, these no-gendered THINGS wanting to be treated the same just because they're here!" It's a lot easier to gang up on your neighbor, a person who you can see and doesn't have any more power than you, than it is to keep track of who is making the back-room deals for your job.
We're aiming justifiable anger at the wrong people. This is why I'm afraid.
But they can't. That America is gone and it's not coming back. We're not going to suddenly become a coal nation again. We're not going to start accepting less than minimum wage and no health care or retirement to compete with over-seas manufacturing. Unless we can innovate new industries that we can train and employ Americans in, we're stuck. And the elected officials aren't going to help, because the people who are making tons of money from moving things over-seas and beholden to things like oil and warfare, fund their campaigns.
But the officials aren't going to tell you that. Instead, we get things like, "It's not that we shipped away your jobs, it's the immigrants taking YOUR jobs! It's not a lack of stability that lead to your divorce, it's those queers threatening YOUR marriage! Do you remember when all you had to be was white to know your voice was always the most important? Look at all these coloreds, these women, these no-gendered THINGS wanting to be treated the same just because they're here!" It's a lot easier to gang up on your neighbor, a person who you can see and doesn't have any more power than you, than it is to keep track of who is making the back-room deals for your job.
We're aiming justifiable anger at the wrong people. This is why I'm afraid.
It doesn't help when one side keeps calling you a racist bigot, telling you that your concerns and problems don't matter because of your "privilege."
Based on how wrong the forecasts were it would truly have been interesting to see what would have happened if Sanders ran against Trump. Bernie always came across to me as inclusive in a way that Hillary, and many Democrats often do not.
Based on how wrong the forecasts were it would truly have been interesting to see what would have happened if Sanders ran against Trump. Bernie always came across to me as inclusive in a way that Hillary, and many Democrats often do not.
