Yeah, one does not get to choose who rapes their ancestors.
I see what you did there!
Poor @Dave.
GasBandit
Staff member
Phrasing! Ha!
I mean, a lot of Dems also endorsed AOC's challenger too.
I seriously doubt that.
There's a large, and growing, progressive left wing to the party, but the establishment in DC really isn't the only place where moderate /conservative voices are heard. Biden is courting the center right as much as the left, and there's a reason for it. Inertia and age and stuff, sure... But if the choice was Trump vs AOC, I'm pretty sure Trump would win by a landslide.
They aren't courting the left at all.
Because he's actually a conservative and a war criminal to boot. And who's talking about AOC for President (yet)? I'm talking as Speaker. Not only can she run circles around her political opponents, she actually has a progressive platform. Nancy can't and doesn't.
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This. Any gains we've gained have been at the tip of sword lately.
Of course they hate AOC. She doesn't represent corporate interests at all and actually does her fucking job and shows up to every single committee meeting and panel she's supposed to unlike literally every single other Congressperson alive. She shows up prepared too which none of them do either. It makes them all look like assholes for being as shitty and lazy as they've been forever.
Look, if we actually had any other voting system than FPtP, Biden could bother with courting the left. But this whole voting system is about trying to push as far past the midfield into the opponent's territory as possible. The far left are in the backfield by the goal. That is the wrong direction for Biden to run. He needs to claim as much of the field as possible and pushing right is the smartest way to do it. If you want candidates at the national level to veer left, you need another system of voting. Period.
figmentPez
Staff member
So, Democrats.
Yeah, a third party will grow on the left, not in the middle. But three parties isn't stable in our system and one will get crowded out.
I see this as endemic to our species, and not just politics. Pepsi/Coke, Windows/Mac, Charter/Comcast, Intel/AMD (CPUs), NVIDIA/AMD (GPUs), etc. Whatever sector it might be, when there’s no external influence preventing it, forces gravitate until there are just the two “big ones” and then everyone else.
—Patrick
Third parties died in 1796. When the Federalists and Democrat-Republicans realized that the loser in the electoral college would end up as Vice-President, they gamed the system in 1800 (which nearly caused us to have President Aaron Burr, by the way). That fiasco resulted in the 12th Amendment, which led to separate votes for President and Vice President.
When that happened, any hope of going to Ranked Voting went out the window.
When that happened, any hope of going to Ranked Voting went out the window.
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figmentPez
Staff member
Even if Biden was a conservative, he'd still be a hundred times better than an actual fascist who wants to destroy democracy.
I absolutely hated George W as a president, he had many very serious issues, I still disagree with him on, probably, 90% of political subjects, but he was still ten times the president Trump is.
In France, they use a two - tier system. The last few times, the second round has been extreme-right vs conservative or vs socialist. And every time the voters of the other major party have voted for the non-nationalist. One with literal clothes pins on their bosses to indicate their disapproval, but they still fucking went and did it.
The willingness of self - proclaimed conservatives to vote for a non - conservative, and the willingness of moderate and left voters not to support someone they don't like, will both contribute to Trump's second term. You only have yourself to blame
I agree with Bubble. Biden sucks. But he's not Trump and the hate he represents. The idea that you don't vote the lesser evil because it's still evil and implies support has always struck me as a privileged idea. Biden won't destroy the country with hate and divisiveness. He'll just be another capitalist in a long line of capitalists. That's a fight I'd rather have (and think we can win) than allowing Trump another 4 years to irreparably damage the country through his bigotry.
I just want to be able to sleep again.
Say what you will about George W and his horrid blunders, I will likely never forgive him for the forever wars, but during his presidency I could at least laugh at his stupid gaffs without feeling like the world was ten minutes from burning down around me. Trump getting another term literally terrifies me.
Say what you will about George W and his horrid blunders, I will likely never forgive him for the forever wars, but during his presidency I could at least laugh at his stupid gaffs without feeling like the world was ten minutes from burning down around me. Trump getting another term literally terrifies me.
GasBandit
Staff member
I am one of those guys. I've always voted libertarian because I refused to compromise my principles.
And then Trump happened.
If you'd have told me 6 years ago I'd be voting for Biden for president, I'd have dismissed it out of hand as nonsense. But here I come, doing just that.
Likewise. And the fact that there are so many people who are not terrified, and who in fact desire that very thing terrifies me even more.
I mean, on the one hand, I'm scared of how many people are so gullible, selfish, & short-sighted that they want to vote for Trump.
On the other hand, I'm scared because this has revealed how many gullible, selfish, & short-sighted people are out there that I'm going to have to deal with once this election is over, and they can't just go back to hiding it now--they're out and proud of it and no matter how things turn out, that's gonna follow them for the next 10-20 years.
A vote for Trump is--LITERALLY--a choice made either out of ignorance or malice/greed. Or both. There is no other possibility. And anyone who says they are voting for Trump for some other reason is lying to your face and actually doing so for one of the reasons I just mentioned.
--Patrick
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