She was a pretty vital character, and it seems a little uncouth to invalidate her experience because you don't think she played a big enough role.
Hollywoo Stars and Celebrities: Who's sexually harassing? Who's sexually harassed? Let's find out!
- Thread starter blotsfan
- Start date
Dave
Staff member
She played a part in like two episodes. I’m not invalidating her experience but the headline is putting whole lot of heavy lifting into the word star in this context.
These are SAG terms. She gets a "starring" credit on the episodes she is in, as opposed to co-starring, guest starting, featuring etc.
Update on Chris Avellone, his accusers have apparently publicly retracted their accusations.
www.forbes.com
‘Fallout’ Writer Chris Avellone And Accusers Issue Joint Statement, Settle Lawsuit
Video game writer Chris Avellone has reached a confidential settlement with two women who accused him of sexual assault. The accusers have issued a public statement retracting all claims of sexual assault.
www.forbes.com
Justin Roiland Domestic Violence Charges Dismissed, ‘Rick and Morty’ Creator Slams ‘Horrible Lies Reported About Me’
"Rick and Morty" creator Justin Roiland has been cleared of domestic violence charges, and he's slamming the lies reported against him.
variety.com
It just seems clear that the damage has already been done to his career and now the state of California suddenly has no reason to pursue the case.
As a victim of false abuse accusations myself it may be my own bias in this situation, but that's messed up.
Cancel culture is toxic. We take it upon ourselves to ruin the careers of others simply because we're too impatient/stubborn to make sure we're not wrong about someone first.
In today's society we have to go on trial twice for things now, and the first time they don't give a shit about evidence or lack-there-of.
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The case was dismissed, but that doesn't clear him of wrong doing. The wording in that article is incredibly misleading.
There may not have been enough evidence for this case specifically, but there are multiple screenshots of texts where he's sending really inappropriate things to minors. There are far too many stories about him out there.
I'm still firmly on the side that he's a monster and hope he struggles to find work.
There may not have been enough evidence for this case specifically, but there are multiple screenshots of texts where he's sending really inappropriate things to minors. There are far too many stories about him out there.
I'm still firmly on the side that he's a monster and hope he struggles to find work.
If true then yes. He's a monster who shouldn't be working. But if it's lies then how is the result to be any different?
I just hope they are all true and not just lies made up by people. Because we as a society judge people by what we read on the internet and not by the actual evidence.
GasBandit
Staff member
I was talking about Justin Roiland to an attorney friend of mine, And one thing I thought was kind of interesting was that the threshold for what constitutes kidnapping (which was one of the main charges against Roiland) is incredibly low. Like stupidly low.
For example, if you go willingly to someone's house, sit on the couch, and then try to get up and do something but the host puts their hand on your shoulder preventing you from getting up and says "oh don't get up, let me get that for you," it pretty much constitutes kidnapping (and assault).
So yeah. Other things may have come to light once he got under the microscope, but one thing's for certain, I'll be a lot more skeptical about public claims of this and that for situations in which I am not directly involved.
For example, if you go willingly to someone's house, sit on the couch, and then try to get up and do something but the host puts their hand on your shoulder preventing you from getting up and says "oh don't get up, let me get that for you," it pretty much constitutes kidnapping (and assault).
So yeah. Other things may have come to light once he got under the microscope, but one thing's for certain, I'll be a lot more skeptical about public claims of this and that for situations in which I am not directly involved.
But before any of these had been made public, his own coworkers had him removed from the office because of his behavior. I recall reading he hadn't been showing up in person for... years? If I'm correct? If you can't trust the people who are around him daily, I don't know what to tell you.
There's a big difference between "he's a jerk, I hate working with him, he's an asshole who treats people badly" and 'he should be jailed", though.
I'm definitely not defending him, as I'm pretty sure he has done stuff he should be in jail for or at the very least ,that I find morally reprehensible. But the Court of Public Opinion sure is strong and willing to judge a lot of people for a lot of things very easily and seems perfectly willing to destroy lives and careers over "not much there" or even flat-out false allegations, too, sadly.
I'm definitely not defending him, as I'm pretty sure he has done stuff he should be in jail for or at the very least ,that I find morally reprehensible. But the Court of Public Opinion sure is strong and willing to judge a lot of people for a lot of things very easily and seems perfectly willing to destroy lives and careers over "not much there" or even flat-out false allegations, too, sadly.
Sure, that can be true, but in this case you say yourself:
So this -isn't- a case of someone being wrongfully accused, which makes all the hemming and hawing kinda pointless. And it's the hemming and hawing that those that would want to silence the voices of victims count on.
GasBandit
Staff member
They're not accusing him of kidnapping and domestic assault, though. Not that what they're saying is any less reprehensible.
I really don't know which way to go on this. Is this a "they got Al Capone for tax evasion" kind of situation? Or is it important to make sure that people are held accountable for exactly and explicitly the actions we find repugnant? There's arguments for both - but yeah, they do both point to Roiland still being a piece of shit. It's just the former is susceptible to falsification and abuse, and the latter might be too hard to make stick every time it is needed.
Obviously, which is why he was kicked out because:
Last I checked, sexual harassment is a litigious offense, not to mention breaking company policy. This isn't your usual "well, he a fucking asshole, but boys will be boys", look-the-other-way bullshit which most men in this position seem to get away with. And, sadly enough, people will defend as long as they get their Pickle Rick.
Well, good thing there's a lot of evidence this time, since there's no shortage of people, especially women, who got their lives and careers destroyed for not being believed when men in power tried to shrug off their shitty and law-breaking behavior.
I have strong opinions on this, so it's easier for me. The example you gave of putting a hand on a shoulder and saying don't get up, absolutely can be considered kidnapping to me. Because it's entirely about the implication. You can say kind words to someone while implying violence, and it's the intent and the implication that change it from mere words to assault. If someone with an abusive history makes you feel like you aren't allowed to leave, even if they're acting 'nice' about it, that's still wrongful imprisonment. And the idea of "oh who is to decide that?" isn't a hard question, a judge and/or a jury, that's who.
I just see the same pattern emerge in all of these stories, and people fall for it. Abusers will float the idea that "it could be you getting accused next!" as a way to get people on their side and against their accusers. And in the rare case that an accuser -is- lying, it usually comes out, see: Amber Heard.
I'm of the opinion that a functioning society only functions if we call out the shit we see when we see it, whether major or minor. If you go out and say some wild and ignorant shit, people should tell you, and hopefully you learn from it. I've said ignorant shit in my past and gotten called out for it, and I grew as a person because of it. And on the major side, if people do heinous shit, then that shit needs to be spotlighted, and they need to pay for it, otherwise society may as well endorse that action instead.
GasBandit
Staff member
We've got an actual, first hand experiencer of it not really "working out" in this thread. Shawnacy's ex is not a unique occurrence.
I agree with this. Anything that can be destroyed by the truth should be. The question is, should something that has a truth that should be destroyed by it (but isn't) - be destroyed instead by a lie?
Mens rea - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
It's not as rare as you would think. Worse yet it's even rarer when a female false accuser gets caught. And even rarer still if that caught female accuser gets any kind of justice thrown back at her.
As Gas mentioned I have first hand experience: I think this will be the first time I mention this openly here (and I do hope it doesn't harm the opinion all of you, who I have come to think of wonderful friends, have of me), but I was accused of domestic violence by my ex and it did not go well for me.
I had been going through years of mental/emotional/and even physical abuse by that woman. I never cheated on her in the time we were together and yet she made me feel that I had done so hundreds of times just by being nice to people of the opposite sex (a trip to Universal Studios was ruined because I was asked by two women to use their phone to take their picture in front of a costumed character we were all in the same line for). She made me suffer through 6 long-term affairs while gaslighting me to think that I was either paranoid, a creep, or directly to blame for the affair (even locking me out of our own phone bills because I was using it to "creep on her"). She went out of her way to keep me busy during the day running errands for her so, along with my overnight job, I was constantly sleep deprived and living on 2-3 hours of sleep a day. Constantly berating me our entire marriage. Never having nice things to say. Never supporting me. "I'm not calling you names. I'm only calling you an asshole because it's true, Shawn!"
She started making it clear that she was setting me up as an "abuser" early, and I blame myself for not having the strength to walk away from her when I should have. One time, after I wouldn't drop the idea that she was having an affair (I had texts, emails, and even caught her in several lies), she started slapping me over and over again. I grabbed her wrists in self defense to hold back her arms. I was informed a few days later that she was showing small bruises on her wrists to my friends and telling them that I did that. I couldn't even walk away from arguments because she would physically block the door with her body, screaming out in pain as if I had just broken her arm if I even tried to push her out of the way (to gaslight me to think I actually was abusing her and loud enough so the kids could hear). I couldn't even get my fingers in the door to pry it open because I knew she'd have no hesitation slamming the door on them hard enough to sever them. The women literally kicked our bedroom door hard enough, busting the frame, just to get to me because I had locked myself inside to flee from an argument.
My worst mistake was in October of 2018. She had been having an on-and-off again affair with a guy at JPL where they worked. He was in TV production so he had access to almost anywhere on campus, so they were having sex in unused offices in the campus pretty much on a daily basis. I had already exposed the affair once that year by involving the guy's wife. But the signs were there that she was continuing the affair with him, just being more careful this time around (I think by this time his wife was leaving him so they just doubled down on stuff since his relationship was no longer a factor). Of course Sarah was gaslighting the hell out of me on this one (She usually would until I caught her so red handed that she'd finally admit it). That particular afternoon in October I made the dumb choice to try and grab her phone from her and catch her in the act of texting him (she locked me out of her phone and was using snapchat to delete the texts so grabbing it when it was unlocked was my only way to accomplish that). I'm sure the explanation behind my choice to do this was the combination of being sleep deprived (to an unhealthy level) and what I later learned is a real thing called "reactive abuse". We played tug of war over that phone for a while. She was kicking and biting me during it, but I kept my focus on just trying to jerk the phone from her.
I don't, to this day, feel that I was justified or excused for doing that, regardless of how I avoided physically harming her in the process. But I do vividly remember my desperation and hurt that was going through my head. I remember that the entire ridiculous point of that whole thing, was to find something on her phone that she'd actually have to admit to, as if she actually would anyway. I could show that woman texts between her and a lover, talking about how great the sex was the night before, only to be told that those texts were faked for my benefit so I "could be a better husband". I knew it was happening. For some damn, stupid reason I wanted her to admit it was happening too.
I was successful in getting the phone, and left the house with it. Little did I know at the time, but she called the police on me. A few days later (On Halloween in fact) I was called by a Sheriff to turn myself in. I did so. I was arrested, put in the system for the first time in my 38 years of my life at the time, and spent a day in jail. They never asked me any questions about the incident. Never even asked me my side. I showed up at the station and they just arrested me. My ex told the police that during the fight I dislocated one of her fingers (which of course she "relocated" before speaking to them). I was bailed out by my parents. Sarah claimed she was trying to bail me out but "couldn't figure out how". Found out later she just spent the day at work with the guy she was having the affair with.
We had to begin our separation process pretty much immediately after that. An automatic criminal restraining order went into place. Sarah could have gone to request to have it removed at any time but (despite gaslighting me into thinking she was trying) she never bothered. She savored this new control over me. CPS got involved due to the incident but they determined that Sarah and I were only abusive to the kids due to the consistent verbal arguments between us when the kids were around (mostly Sarah yelling at me for things I never did, but how do you explain that to anyone?). She was even using CPS's involvement to get me to comply with her demands even more ("They don't want you seeing the kids") despite the fact that CPS told me the exact opposite (you SHOULD see the kids as much as possible) and finding out that they only kept the case open for a while because they could sense Sarah wasn't cooperating much.
The sheriff's office decided to go forward with the charges. I got a lawyer but only had enough to get me to the point of a plea deal. He recommended we go to a jury trial as the evidence was so non-existent, but I was scared of both just never being in this situation before and that Sarah was going to take the kids from me if I fought the charges. So I stupidly plead no-contest to the charges. A required 3 year restraining order went into effect (just for Sarah. Not the kids). And I was required to take 52 classes for domestic violence offenders for the next year.
I'll be honest: That class was probably one of the best things that could have happened to me in the wake of things. I mean I don't know if everyone was in exactly similar situations as me (I'm sure there were a few people there that were actually terrible abusers of their spouses) but I learned that my plight wasn't rare. A lot of the class even centered around not letting someone else's abuse cause you to react to it. I gained the knowledge of how to walk away from an abusive relationship. I even learned one of my favorite life lessons there: "It's not your fault that you were treated how you were. But it is your responsibility how to act".
I had perfect attendance to the class and had passed in exactly one year. Though the restraining order remained in effect for the full 3 years I was able to expunge my conviction after 1.5 years due to my dedication (even the DA was like "we have no reason to dispute his request for expungement").
But to this day Sarah has never been held accountable for her part in things. She's completely alienated me from seeing my step-kids, and (as most are aware) she makes seeing my own daughter one of the most challenging things in my life. So far she claims that pretty much every boyfriend she's ever had before me was abusive. Even the guy she ended up marrying recently. She dated him in high school and claimed he physically cut her on her legs and arms. Pretty sure now that that was bullshit too. I don't even think he's aware she made those accusations against him.
I will never believe that women are not the most common demographic who will be the victims of abuse in relationships. But I do believe that we live in a society that has empowered women to speak out so much that we believe them even when they are lying. Each claim of abuse should be investigated properly on a case-by-case scenario. But right now the police are too pressured to do anything but respond with the mindset that a domestic violence dispute between a man and a woman must be the man's fault. My ex is not as unique as people would hope. There are plenty of narcissistic women out there who are with beta-male type guys entirely because they know they can manipulate and push them around. We can't treat every toxic relationship like this is the case... but I wish we could be prepared for it to be the case just the same.
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But I think there's one big issue you're glossing over compared to your own experience: in your case, it was one person's word against yours. Was she lying? Yes. But in the case with Roiland, there were multiple accusers and evidence. Some coworkers, some strangers, all different ages and walks of life. It's a lot harder to organize random people to start a false campaign than one person's word against another. Not impossible, of course (See: Pizzagate, Gamergate, etc.), but the odds aren't in his favor.
There are a lot of accusers. Most likely he is a piece of work. If he's grooming underage girls, abusing people in relationships, etc, those are things that should lose him work if not straight up jail time.
But its still not impossible that there is more to the situation. He could be a jerk and a womanizer without being a monster. One person could make a complaint about him and suddenly everyone else wants a piece of that fame just cause their breakup wasn't on good terms or because he's just an asshat to work with. Do we need people to speak out about abuse? Absolutely. That's how we catch the Bill Cosbys and Weinsteins of this world. And the more that open up about them the more hard evidence there should be available to ensure someone like that is dealt with properly by the law.
But it only took one person to ruin Johnny Depp's career and she didn't even mention him by name in her blog/book. Regardless of who or how many people make claims against someone, we need to take the proper steps to make sure there isn't more to the situation than is being reported.
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It's incredibly telling that Justin's own coworkers were like, "Yeah, that checks. We had to keep him out of the office because Cartoon Network wouldn't let us fire him outright" when all this broke. No one was like, "Oh no, Justin would never...!". The people around him everyday weren't shocked. That's not just the court of public opinion there, that's first-hand.
And considering Depp is still getting work, I wouldn't call him ruined. Heard is probably not going to have a career after this, but she was far from innocent in this. I can remember hearing bad things about Depp's behavior and drinking even back in the 80's when we was with Winona Ryder. This was clearly a case of two toxic people getting together.
And considering Depp is still getting work, I wouldn't call him ruined. Heard is probably not going to have a career after this, but she was far from innocent in this. I can remember hearing bad things about Depp's behavior and drinking even back in the 80's when we was with Winona Ryder. This was clearly a case of two toxic people getting together.
Yeah, that was the thing I took from the Depp/Heard case. NEITHER of them came out of it looking good. They both came across as horribly toxic, abusive people.
That seems part of the problem. Roiland wasn’t removed from projects until these issues came to light and the public started demanding his cancelation, right? Him doing it not doing something has no bearing on it. Only if the public thinks he did will action be taken.
Depp was heavily blacklisted until the defamation case put to light Heard’s abuse. While I think Depp’s drug use played a factor in his own toxicity. I saw a lot of similarities with what Heard was doing to him to manipulate and humiliate him.
I truly believe that if I were famous when everything happened with my ex that I would have been “cancelled”. Even if I went to court and had a non guilty verdict I don’t think a bounce back would be possible except under the right circumstances.
I expect we'll be seeing a similar gag in Rick & Morty.
figmentPez
Staff member
Lawsuit by former dancers accuses Lizzo of sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment
"The civil lawsuit filed Tuesday in Los Angeles County Superior Court claims Lizzo pressured the dancers to engage with nude performers at a club in Amsterdam and shamed one of them for her weight gain before firing her.
"Plaintiffs Arianna Davis, Crystal Williams and Noelle Rodriguez make numerous charges including sexual, religious and racial harassment, disability discrimination, assault and false imprisonment."
...
"The court filing claims that after performing a concert in Amsterdam, Lizzo and her crew attended a sexually themed show at a club in the city’s notorious Red Light District where 'Lizzo began inviting cast members to take turns touching the nude performers.' During the show, Lizzo led a chant pressuring Davis to touch the breasts of one of the nude women performing at the club, the filing states."
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If you'd asked me to guess what musician has been accused of sexually harassing and fat shaming their dancers, Lizzo would not even have been in the top 50.
"The civil lawsuit filed Tuesday in Los Angeles County Superior Court claims Lizzo pressured the dancers to engage with nude performers at a club in Amsterdam and shamed one of them for her weight gain before firing her.
"Plaintiffs Arianna Davis, Crystal Williams and Noelle Rodriguez make numerous charges including sexual, religious and racial harassment, disability discrimination, assault and false imprisonment."
...
"The court filing claims that after performing a concert in Amsterdam, Lizzo and her crew attended a sexually themed show at a club in the city’s notorious Red Light District where 'Lizzo began inviting cast members to take turns touching the nude performers.' During the show, Lizzo led a chant pressuring Davis to touch the breasts of one of the nude women performing at the club, the filing states."
--
If you'd asked me to guess what musician has been accused of sexually harassing and fat shaming their dancers, Lizzo would not even have been in the top 50.
figmentPez
Staff member
‘That ’70s Show’ actor Danny Masterson gets 30 years to life in prison for rapes of 2 women
"Prosecutors alleged that Masterson used his prominence in the Church of Scientology — where all three women were also members at the time — to avoid consequences for decades after the attacks.
"The women blamed the church for their hesitancy in going to police about Masterson. They testified that when they reported him to Scientology officials, they were told they were not raped, were put through ethics programs themselves, and were warned against going to law enforcement to report a member of such high standing."
"Prosecutors alleged that Masterson used his prominence in the Church of Scientology — where all three women were also members at the time — to avoid consequences for decades after the attacks.
"The women blamed the church for their hesitancy in going to police about Masterson. They testified that when they reported him to Scientology officials, they were told they were not raped, were put through ethics programs themselves, and were warned against going to law enforcement to report a member of such high standing."
I like that a rapist is going away for an appropriate time, but there are so many others that have gotten off with almost zero consequences.