Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats

[Armadillo]

Actually, that is patently untrue. While it was designed to limit the reach and scope of government, it still had enough leeway to allow or forbid new, unthought of powers at future dates. This is why we have the amendment process.

Regardless of that, it's already been established that States can revoke or simply not issues licenses to people who don't have auto insurance. This is similar in vein to those laws, but simply on a national level. If you want to argue anything, you could argue that such a health care program should be run by individual states and not on a national level, as it's a States Rights issue.

You're correct, but in addition to the fact that we're not talking about amending the Constitution, your example doesn't make this instance any less unconstitutional. States' rights are covered under the 10th Amendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Plus, you're not REQUIRED to have auto insurance unless you choose to drive. There's no such choice in the health care bill; you MUST buy health insurance, no matter what.

 

[Krisken]

Not to mention it's NOT unconstitutional at all. It's not even a situation envisioned by our founding fathers. It doesn't violate a current amendment ether.

Could you please point to the part of the Constitution that allows Congress to mandate the purchase of a specific product under penalty of law? This is important, because if the Constitution doesn't specifically allow Congress to do something, they can't do it. That was the original intent of the document; to limit the reach and scope of government.

---------- Post added at 01:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 AM ----------

Sorry, you lost me at "You Libs". I instantly stopped reading.

FINE, strike that comment from the record. Care to reply?[/QUOTE]
Sure. On what bases are you saying the Constitution doesn't allow for taxation? I know it can't be the "taxation without representation" clause since you are represented.

The problem does not lie with "where does it say they can", the problem lies with "where does it say they can't." If you can point to where it is unconsititutional, I'd be happy to point out why it is.

I am incredibly surprised you can argue "The original intent of the document". Were you there? You're older than Ed!

 

[Armadillo]

taxation? I know it can't be the "taxation without representation" clause since you are represented.

The problem does not lie with "where does it say they can", the problem lies with "where does it say they can't." If you can point to where it is unconsititutional, I'd be happy to point out why it is.

But that's just it; if the Constitution doesn't explicitly say Congress can do something, THEY CAN'T DO IT. Refer to the tenth amendment as quoted above. Also, the 2.5% is a penalty, not a tax.

I am incredibly surprised you can argue "The original intent of the document". Were you there? You're older than Ed!

I go by what was written. The Framers were amazingly clear about what they meant.

 

[Krisken]

taxation? I know it can't be the "taxation without representation" clause since you are represented.

The problem does not lie with "where does it say they can", the problem lies with "where does it say they can't." If you can point to where it is unconsititutional, I'd be happy to point out why it is.

But that's just it; if the Constitution doesn't explicitly say Congress can do something, THEY CAN'T DO IT. Refer to the tenth amendment as quoted above. Also, the 2.5% is a penalty, not a tax.

I am incredibly surprised you can argue "The original intent of the document". Were you there? You're older than Ed!

I go by what was written. The Framers were amazingly clear about what they meant.[/QUOTE]
With that I don't agree (the They Can't Do It). It gives them the right to make new laws. If you can point out where Congress can't make that law (because it gives them the right to make new laws), because it is somehow against the constitution, then I'll happily come back with a counter.

 

[Armadillo]

taxation? I know it can't be the "taxation without representation" clause since you are represented.

The problem does not lie with "where does it say they can", the problem lies with "where does it say they can't." If you can point to where it is unconsititutional, I'd be happy to point out why it is.

But that's just it; if the Constitution doesn't explicitly say Congress can do something, THEY CAN'T DO IT. Refer to the tenth amendment as quoted above. Also, the 2.5% is a penalty, not a tax.

I am incredibly surprised you can argue "The original intent of the document". Were you there? You're older than Ed!

I go by what was written. The Framers were amazingly clear about what they meant.[/QUOTE]
With that I don't agree (the They Can't Do It). It gives them the right to make new laws. If you can point out where Congress can't make that law (because it gives them the right to make new laws), because it is somehow against the constitution, then I'll happily come back with a counter.[/QUOTE]

Amendment X: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

We're all in agreement that nowhere in the Constitution does it say that Congress has the power to mandate that people buy a product. Since that power is not delegated to the Congress, it is reserved to the States respectively, or the people.

 

[Krisken]

taxation? I know it can't be the \"taxation without representation\" clause since you are represented.

The problem does not lie with \"where does it say they can\", the problem lies with \"where does it say they can't.\" If you can point to where it is unconsititutional, I'd be happy to point out why it is.

But that's just it; if the Constitution doesn't explicitly say Congress can do something, THEY CAN'T DO IT. Refer to the tenth amendment as quoted above. Also, the 2.5% is a penalty, not a tax.

I am incredibly surprised you can argue \"The original intent of the document\". Were you there? You're older than Ed!

I go by what was written. The Framers were amazingly clear about what they meant.[/quote]
With that I don't agree (the They Can't Do It). It gives them the right to make new laws. If you can point out where Congress can't make that law (because it gives them the right to make new laws), because it is somehow against the constitution, then I'll happily come back with a counter.[/quote]

Amendment X: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

We're all in agreement that nowhere in the Constitution does it say that Congress has the power to mandate that people buy a product. Since that power is not delegated to the Congress, it is reserved to the States respectively, or the people.[/quote]
No, we aren't in agreement.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Gs...ves congress the right to create laws&f=false

Oh, and http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html

 

[GasBandit]

Not to mention that the comparison to auto insurance is fallacious. You don't need insurance to drive a vehicle within the confines of your own property... but you do if you're going to be using public roads and thoroughfares. The clincher here is you have a choice - you can buy car insurance and be allowed to use the roads, or you can not buy car insurance and choose not to drive on the roads.

A more apt analogy in this case would be a mandate of you having to buy car insurance even if you don't drive, under penalty of fine. I mean, tax. Yeah, tax. We're totally gonna call it a tax because we're allowed to tax, and that gets us around the unconstitutionality of what we're doing.

---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 AM ----------

Some links!

Yesterday we saw, what could turn out to be, one of the biggest counterterrorism seizures in American history. The Feds seized four mosques and a New York skyscraper, all owned by a Muslim nonprofit organization. The organization, the Alabi Foundation, allegedly is controlled by the Iranian government.

Texas Governor Rick Perry has a lot of liberal thongs in a wad. During a recent speech in Midland, Texas he said, "This is an administration hell-bent on taking America towards a socialist country."

Nancy Pelosi says that we will get government healthcare as a Christmas present. Can I just have my lump of coal instead? At least coal will keep me warm.

Just to remind you how we got into this mess ... here's a bit on ACORN and our housing bubble.

Yet another record breaking fiscal month for our government with an October budget deficit of $176 billion.

The Obama administration wants to use TARP funds to cut the deficit. So... government is bailing ITSELF out?

George Will on what's killing the dollar.

The Obama administration has issued the order to weed out any Bush political appointees.

Here's a blast from the past. Obama on the campaign trail deriding Hillary Clinton for her idea of an individual health insurance mandate.

Did you realize that the House healthcare bill includes a 69% increase in capital gains taxes? Here's how.

Could the Democrats manage to implement a Fairness Doctrine 2.0?

Now we are learning that officials ordered that documents be shredded in the case of the firing of Inspector General Gerald Walpin.

Major Nidal Hasan proclaimed himself a "soldier of Allah" on private business cards. What a complete failure on the part of our intelligence community .. all because of political correctness.

There are ten states in this country that are on the verge of economic disaster.

This should scare you ... No education secretary has ever had so much money for government school improvement with so few conditions from Congress.

The winner in the war on terrorism is ... China?

This is rich ... ACORN has filed a lawsuit against the federal government, trying to restore its federal funds.

Going up. Again.

Cap and Trade on the chopping block?

Brits to get individual "carbon allowances?"

 

[Covar]

Nancy Pelosi says that we will get government healthcare as a Christmas present. Can I just have my lump of coal instead? At least coal will keep me warm.

I don't recall having to buy my own Christmas gifts.

Could the Democrats manage to implement a Fairness Doctrine 2.0?

People still won't listen to liberal talk radio.

Now we are learning that officials ordered that documents be shredded in the case of the firing of Inspector General Gerald Walpin.

more transparent government, two years ago we wouldn't have been told about the shredded files.

Major Nidal Hasan proclaimed himself a "soldier of Allah" on private business cards. What a complete failure on the part of our intelligence community .. all because of political correctness.

still not a terrorist. am i rite.

This is rich ... ACORN has filed a lawsuit against the federal government, trying to restore its federal funds.

You mean funding they never had?

 

[DarkAudit]

Bill Kristol hates America. Dude, trial by jury exists precisely because sick fucks like you exist.

Tom Tancredo to run for governor of CO. That is, until his depression crops up again and he quits.

LouDobbs to appear on the Factor on Monday. Give Billo the Clown credit. He's called BS on the birther
movement. Dobbs is a birther. Ladies and gentlemen, start your popcorn!

The GOP civil war has opened a third front. Now it's tea partier on tea partier action!

 

[Covar]

Bill Kristol hates America. Dude, trial by jury exists precisely because sick fucks like you exist.

I will say this. He should be brought up on military charges, not charged as a civilian.

 

[Armadillo]

The Obama administration wants to use TARP funds to cut the deficit. So... government is bailing ITSELF out?

It must be done:

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 PM ----------

Bill Kristol hates America. Dude, trial by jury exists precisely because sick fucks like you exist.

What I took from the clip is that he believes Hasan's guilt is a foregone conclusion, not that he shouldn't have a trial at all.

 

[Krisken]

Bill Kristol hates America. Dude, trial by jury exists precisely because sick fucks like you exist.

What I took from the clip is that he believes Hasan's guilt is a foregone conclusion, not that he shouldn't have a trial at all.

Should we make a list of things Bill Kristol has taken as a "foregone conclusion"?

I seriously don't understand why anyone listens to this guy.

 

[Armadillo]

Bill Kristol hates America. Dude, trial by jury exists precisely because sick fucks like you exist.

What I took from the clip is that he believes Hasan's guilt is a foregone conclusion, not that he shouldn't have a trial at all.

Should we make a list of things Bill Kristol has taken as a "foregone conclusion"?

I seriously don't understand why anyone listens to this guy.[/QUOTE]

Who gives a shit what he thinks is a foregone conclusion? He's a talking head.

 

[Krisken]

Bill Kristol hates America. Dude, trial by jury exists precisely because sick fucks like you exist.

What I took from the clip is that he believes Hasan's guilt is a foregone conclusion, not that he shouldn't have a trial at all.

Should we make a list of things Bill Kristol has taken as a "foregone conclusion"?

I seriously don't understand why anyone listens to this guy.[/quote]

Who gives a shit what he thinks is a foregone conclusion? He's a talking head.[/QUOTE]
Relax man. I was just pointing out what you had said.

 

[DarkAudit]

Even by the usual standards of corporate douchebaggery, this story really takes the biscuit. Please, Mr. Really Big Asteroid, just plow right into the planet already — we’re ready. Fuck, we’re overdue.

 

[Covar]

I'm sorry that's nothing new. The NFL has always had a strong stance on preventing unauthorized advertisements and endorsments at the games. The same thing would have happened if Celek had gotten caught wearing a Phillies cap on the sideline.

 

[DarkAudit]

You missed the point so much you're not even in the same galaxy, Covar.

 

[GasBandit]

Ok, it was kinda inane and all... but (and I hate to be THAT GUY)... this Capt. Morgan rum stance NFL thing is politics?...

 

[DarkAudit]

Corporate douchebaggery fits better here than in a seperate thread just for this story, and since now multiple people have missed the point, THE DOUCHEBAG HERE IS CAPTAIN MORGAN, NOT THE NFL.

 

[Covar]

...

I'm confused. Paying a charity their advertising money instead of paying the NFLPA, NFL, or TV networks is corprate douchebaggery?

 

[DarkAudit]

Not everything has to be plastered with advertising, and the "charity" angle wasn't revealed until after some marketing dweeb let the cat out of the bag.

 

[JONJONAUG]

Major Nidal Hasan proclaimed himself a \"soldier of Allah\" on private business cards. What a complete failure on the part of our intelligence community .. all because of political correctness.

still not a terrorist. am i rite.

There's a difference between being part of an organized group who commits large-scale acts of killing or other acts to inspire terror as a means to an end, and some crazy fuck who shoots up his base.

Not saying that there weren't warning signs that should've been attended to, but calling him a "terrorist" doesn't quite work.

 

[Armadillo]

Not everything has to be plastered with advertising, and the "charity" angle wasn't revealed until after some marketing dweeb let the cat out of the bag.

NFL broadcasts probably aren't where you want to make your anti-commercial stand. That horse left the barn in 1909.

 

[DarkAudit]

Something that was only just suspected is now out in the open: the neo-nazis are finding a home with the tea partiers.

How dare you fact-check me! I'm SARAH PALIN, DAMMIT!! Bitch, you got fact-checked by Fox Noise.

Senator Burr wants to allow "mentally incapacitated" to buy guns. Are you just fucking stupid, Senator? Or is your whoring yourself just too blatant to contain anymore?

 

[Armadillo]

Something that was only just suspected is now out in the open: the neo-nazis are finding a home with the tea partiers.

Actually, when you read the story, you find that the Tea Partiers wanted nothing to do with the neo-nazis, and kicked them out of the rally. Therefore, they DON'T have a home in the Tea Party movement. Why mislead like that?

 

[Krisken]

Something that was only just suspected is now out in the open: the neo-nazis are finding a home with the tea partiers.

Actually, when you read the story, you find that the Tea Partiers wanted nothing to do with the neo-nazis, and kicked them out of the rally. Therefore, they DON'T have a home in the Tea Party movement. Why mislead like that?[/quote]
Indeed. Why mislead like that.

DA, that wasn't even close to accurate.

 

[Espy]

Something that was only just suspected is now out in the open: the neo-nazis are finding a home with the tea partiers.

Actually, when you read the story, you find that the Tea Partiers wanted nothing to do with the neo-nazis, and kicked them out of the rally. Therefore, they DON'T have a home in the Tea Party movement. Why mislead like that?[/quote]
Indeed. Why mislead like that.

DA, that wasn't even close to accurate.[/QUOTE]

Well it makes for a much better story, let's be fair.

 

[makare]

Well the neonazis are teapartiers. So when they are among their own they are among both neonazis and teapartiers.

So his phrasing is bad but the message that neonazis are siding with the teapartiers fits the article.

Although I am not sure what that has to do with anything. I dismiss pretty much everything those people, nenonaziers, believe out of hand so their alliance with the teaparties is kind of irrelevant to me.

 

[Armadillo]

Well the neonazis are teapartiers. So when they are among their own they are among both neonazis and teapartiers.

So his phrasing is bad but the message that neonazis are siding with the teapartiers fits the article.

Although I am not sure what that has to do with anything. I dismiss pretty much everything those people, nenonaziers, believe out of hand so their alliance with the teaparties is kind of irrelevant to me.

The implication was that the neo-Nazis and Tea Partiers are aligned, which they most assuredly are not. The Tea Partiers are anti-illegal immigration, while neo-Nazis are anti-anything that isn't Aryan. That's a pretty massive difference, and attempting to link the two ideologies in any meaningful way is just smearing and attempting to marginalize the Tea Partys.

 

[Krisken]

They're both groups of idiots. They're just idiots for different reasons.

 

[makare]

But these neo nazis are teapartiers.

So they may have a separate different ideology but you cant say they are not aligned. The are both aligned with their desire to limit illegal immigration. Which is obvious by the fact that they showed up at the rally for that cause.

 

[GasBandit]

With every day that passes Obama's ego seems to get larger. He is starting to believe his own press. More and more pundits are seeing this and are commenting. Here's some fun reading from W. McCahill, Jeff Jacoby, Tony Fratto, The Tampa Tribune, Examiner.com.

KSM trial in New York: An intelligence bonanza for Al Qaeda.

And just how much did our precious and government-run Medicare program hand out in suspect Medicare claims last year? Read here and find out .. then throw up. It's your money you know.

Our imperial federal government now wants to run every subway and light-rail system in the country. Just what we need!

Here we go with another major eminent domain case. This one from New York.

This upcoming conference in Copenhagen on climate change has been deemed a complete wash. Those of you who were worried that Obama was going to sign away our sovereignty can rest easy.

This is humorous ... George W. Bush is warning us of too much government.

After quadrupling the deficit thanks to his economic stimulus bill, Barack Obama has now decided that he wants a spending freeze.

The US is headed toward "third-class status as a nation" because of the budget deficit.

South Carolina Senator Jim DeMint has successfully convinced the Obama administration to change its stance on upcoming elections in Honduras.

Political correctness in the case of the Fort Hood shooter.

Barack Obama wants Congress to delay its investigation into the Fort Hood shooting.

Could Newt Gingrich be working on a Contract with America round 2? Are we supposed to believe the GOP would actually follow through THIS time?

What information does Barack Obama need in order to make a decision on Afghanistan? He won't tell us.

There are a few people who aren't buying into Al Gore's global warming scam. These people dared to protest a Nobel Peace Prize winner! For what it's worth, Gore has admitted that CO2 is not the main cause of global warming.

The government is sending millions of dollars in stimulus aid to communities and housing agencies that federal watchdogs have concluded are unable to spend it appropriately.

Government transparency at its finest.

 

[Krisken]

Burning people in effigy has been rethink/.

I think it's a little silly whining about liberal blogs having a problem with burning officials in effigy. I'm sure conservative blogs would feel the same way if the situation was reversed (and I'd agree with them).

 

[GasBandit]

Burning people in effigy has been rethink/.

I think it's a little silly whining about liberal blogs having a problem with burning officials in effigy. I'm sure conservative blogs would feel the same way if the situation was reversed (and I'd agree with them).

Yeah, I don't remember any Bush effigies being burned within the US (closest was Montreal, I think), though there was a Bush effigy that was hung from a noose in San Francisco. Still, it's not the same, and you don't want to be the one to cross that line. At least not unless things suddenly get a WHOLE lot worse. And by that, I mean genuine dictatorship/collapse/anarchy/what-have-you.

Edit: whup, I was wrong - November 3, 2004 (post election protests) in San Francisco (of course) did burn Bush in Effigy. But still, you don't wanna be like those people.

 

[DarkAudit]

For the right price you too can own the Joe Wilson Ventriloquist Dummy!

Te Party rally hates ALL immigrants! Get rid of all those filthy Poles, Brits, Irish, and Norwegians!