Congresswoman Shot

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So, what are you getting at TLB? We should just ban all guns? Is that your solution?
We have to ban all republicans. Duh. :p
Added at: 22:46
When you have statements like this one above

November 4, 2010—Fox News host Bill O'Reilly fantasizes about killing a Washington Post reporter while on the air, saying, "Does sharia law say we can behead Dana Milbank?" O'Reilly also tells co-host Megyn Kelly, "I think you and I should go and beat him up."

and things like that are considered acceptable punditry that is a central part of our political culture then something is seriously wrong.
I'm no fan of Bill O'Reilly but I think anyone who, even out of context, thinks that that comment isn't merely an over-the-top way to try and make a point about Sharia law has to be reaching here. It's not like he said, "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun"*.

*and somehow I doubt that even the politician who said that quote really meant that his constituents should bring a gun to a political fight... but still, its like the Palin stuff, this kind of rhetoric isn't really needed IMO.
 
B

Biannoshufu

its one thing when an internet blogger nut job says it. When the people on TV start saying it, it gets unnerving.
 
I don't think banning guns would be a good idea. I'm for not allowing the extended clips like the one used in this instance, though.
 
I

Iaculus

So apparently the attorney defending this guy did the same for Ted Kaczynski.

Man, that's got to be one hell of a job.
 
I

Iaculus

Not necessarily. You need a decent lawyer in this sort of case, in order to make sure that this guy gets curbstomped in court the right way, with no unfortunate precedent spillover. You would be amazed by the knock-on effects some bad law in a highly publicised case can have.

All I'm saying is that it must be a weird, weird way to make a living.
 
If we're going to do the gun thing ANYWAY (I'm surprised we lasted this long without it honestly) I'd like to see some statistics on the % of guns recovered from shooting like this that were legally purchased VS those stolen/ purchased illegally.



Also the number of times that someone has been shooting like this and an ordinary citizen shot the attacker.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
This is like saying we shouldn't have speed limits because criminals speed.
No, we shouldn't have speed limits because they're either an intellectually dishonest methods of revenue generation for municipal governments who want more money but are too cowardly to stand up for an overt tax, or an imperial method of dictating how much fuel the citizen is allowed to consume.

Or, to put it another way: bad analogy.
 
I'd like to see some statistics on the % of guns recovered from shooting like this that were legally purchased VS those stolen/ purchased illegally.
These are actually numbers I would very much like to see as well. Unfortunately... I know in Canada we don't actually keep track of statistics like this even though they would actually help end the current debate on our gun registry. Does the USA have any numbers on this sort of thing?

Rep. King to introduce gun law making it illegal to carry a gun within 1000 feet of a government official.
*facepalm*

This is exactly the kind of law that will do nothing to prevent another tradgedy like the one that just occured. It's already illegal to shoot a government official... how is making it illegal to carry a gun within 1000 feet of them going to do ANYTHING to prevent someone who is already okay with dying/being prosecuted for murder?
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I can't argue with crazy, Gas. At least give me something tangible.
I'll indulge you - the speed limit analogy is bad. Keeping with the gun control argument, one only need look around. Britain banned all handguns in 97, and their crimes involving firearms rate doubled over the next 6 years. Compare with Israel, where (mostly due to terrorist attacks) licensed citizens carrying guns are near ubiquitous and their crime rate is lower... or Switzerland, whose gun crime rates are so low they don't even bother tracking them, despite gun ownership levels that are at least as high per capita as the US, if not higher.

And of course, all this is just window dressing to the real issue - the purpose of the second amendment is to keep the populace armed and unoppressed. It's not about hunting or home defense or crime. It's about the defense of liberty. Tyrants have known this for a long time - which is why the most tyrannical regimes are also those with the strictest gun control laws.
 
I agree with you Gas about the purpose of the second amendment, I think thats rather clear, but honestly, I think that argument becomes moot when, at this point in history in America, no matter how armed our populace is under current gun laws they would have zero chance against the full strength of our military if the government started to oppress us all the sudden. I'm not saying do away with gun laws but really, unless we allow private citizens to be as well armed as the military then it ain't gonna do no good.

I predict that you will say in response that we should allow private citizens to be as well armed as the government, to which I will respond that even if you and I agreed on that it will never happen anyway.

Your move.
 
Assassinations are remarkably rare in America. The last sitting member of Congress to have been assassinated was Representative Leo J. Ryan of California, who was murdered by members of the People’s Temple when he was visiting Guyana in 1978. The last one to be assassinated on American soil was Senator Robert F. Kennedy of New York in 1968.

The last mayor of a large city to be assassinated was George Moscone of San Francisco, who was killed along with a city supervisor, Harvey Milk, in 1978. The last American president to be assassinated was John F. Kennedy in 1963, although there have been attempts or very serious threats against several others since, most notably Ronald Reagan, who was shot but not killed by John Hinckley, Jr., in 1981. Gov. George Wallace of Alabama was shot and left partly paralyzed by a would-be assassin while running for president in 1972.
The only use for a law against carrying a gun within an arbitrary distance of a politician is to make it easy for politicians to jail gun owners who legally carry. Can you imagine how hard it would be to enforce such a law?

But it's even more ludicrous in terms of the quoted article above (from http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytime...tand-assassination-threat-look-beyond-tucson/ ). Such a law would certainly not have prevented any previous assassination attempt, and will not do anything to prevent a future attempt.

Like so many others, gun control advocates will of course use the recently murdered as a grandstand to push their own agenda - with the reality being that their efforts wouldn't have prevented this recent tragedy.
 
Yes but pushing legislation that you can spin to make it sound like it could have stopped a recent tragedy sure does play well with your constituents I bet, and after all, whats the point to being a politician other than getting yourself elected?
 
And FLP and I agree on something political. Mark that, folks.

It's a shame that so much pain is used as a catalyst for personal agendas.
 
no matter how armed our populace is under current gun laws they would have zero chance against the full strength of our military if the government started to oppress us all the sudden.
While it's easy to say that they have bigger and better weapons, those weapons are still controlled by soldiers who may well have something to say if ordered to train those weapons on their homeland.

It would take a very interesting chain of events to get us to the point where the gov't would be sending military forces into our towns and streets, looking for "insurgents". But keep in mind that there's a 100:1 ratio of civilians to active and reserve military, and that's assuming they keep all the military they've got.

Further, the military machine still runs on things that are produced here. They'd probably have to take over some other nations to supply itself while it waged war within its own borders. Oil, food, parts, machines - they have a stockpile, sure, but it's not as though such a war could possibly be short without the gov't accepting the idea that for every "insurgent" they kill, it's ok to have a few hundred or thousand civilian casualties.

Some gun estimates show that about 1 in four people own one or more guns, and there are nearly enough guns in the civilian population to arm every person.

So while bullets are less than grenades, mortars, helicopters, missiles, etc, it would still not be trivial for our gov't to enslave us.
Added at: 12:47
Yes but pushing legislation that you can spin to make it sound like it could have stopped a recent tragedy sure does play well with your constituents I bet, and after all, whats the point to being a politician other than getting yourself elected?
Well sure. They are trained in the art of saying "It behooves us all to stop our bickering and mourn this tragedy" while thinking, "How many minutes must I wait before I can turn these lemons into lemonade!"
 
B

Biannoshufu

I'm with whoever said we can all have guns, but make the bullets $5000 a pop.
 
B

Biannoshufu

I knew it was him, but hands are a bit full didnt want to go do what phil was made to do
 



Nice mugshot. Just in case you thought his shooting spree was driven by anything but pure insanity.
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I agree with you Gas about the purpose of the second amendment, I think thats rather clear, but honestly, I think that argument becomes moot when, at this point in history in America, no matter how armed our populace is under current gun laws they would have zero chance against the full strength of our military if the government started to oppress us all the sudden. I'm not saying do away with gun laws but really, unless we allow private citizens to be as well armed as the military then it ain't gonna do no good.

I predict that you will say in response that we should allow private citizens to be as well armed as the government, to which I will respond that even if you and I agreed on that it will never happen anyway.

Your move.
No wonder politicians are so afraid of the "vote from the rooftops" mentality... every day we move closer to where it's inevitable. And not because of vitriol in the media.
 
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