Also it's not a mystery. We can observe and measure it. We can write simple equations to accurately predict how it will behave. Our entire modern world is built around knowing how electricity works
Funny (political, religious) pictures
- Thread starter strawman
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Religious textbook: "Life itself is a chaotic mystery. Nobody has ever seen 'life' or captured it in a test tube. Nobody understands how it works."
Ravenpoe: "Actuarial science would like a word with you."
--Patrick
That's literally my next paragraph.
Yeah, that's what i was trying to say.
That's electricity as a broad term.
You guys where getting way into the actual details of how it actually works at the elementary particle levels, but imo that's a whole different thing. So i was disagreeing with fade that that's technically correct...
No, that's just an effect of "electricity".
Just like the rock is one of the effects of the strong force (?) holding particles together...
NONE OF YOU ARE REAL!!!!!
Like I said in my following post, that post was supposed to have a lot more detail in it, but it got eaten thanks to being on mobile and I had to wait until I got home to finish it.
Also your next paragraph looks like it is not about word choice (the literal words chosen to construct the textbook and how they are structured), but subject choice ("house" electricity as opposed to "physics" electricity).
--Patrick
Well, they're not that different, it's just about the level of detail of how the underlying phenomenon works.
And, as i've said before, in physics we'd be talking electromagnetism, and not electricity.
But i was talking more about the "ostensibly a grade-school science textbook." part. fade talking about the more complex science behind the sparky stuff is exactly what they're trying to do with the text... confusing the issue between the underlying physics, and the actual 4th grade level science of electrons moving around in a conductor to power your lights.
It comes from the movement of electrons.
The source of electricity is the movement of electrons.
Almost everything has electrons, so yes, it conceivably can be generated everywhere. Including shuffling your feet on a cold dry day, because, hey, you're transferring electrons. See? If you know where it comes from, the explanation for how it works becomes pretty simple.
We know considerably more about it than what they say "All anyone knows is"..They make it sound like you gotta summon that shit up with a ouiji board or something.
figmentPez
Staff member
The whole point is that "technically correct" is counter-productive when teaching nine year-olds! I've never disputed that there is a perspective in which you can't "see" electricity. However, that perspective is exploited by the textbook in order to present science as unable to understand electricity on a fundamental level.
EDIT: Sorry, misread @Li3n's post. Thought he said "agreeing with with fade".
The reason I was talking about particle level stuff was because Fade was talking about particle level stuff. I was trying to point out that if we can agree that it's pretty stupid to tell a kid "no one has ever seen a rock", that it's also stupid to say "no one has ever seen electricity", regardless of how much philosophical bullshit an author puts into the opening of a graduate level textbook in order to make it look like they're worth the $200 you're paying for it.
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figmentPez
Staff member
No, we're not. Apprently some people just think that seeing the light produced by a lightning bolt is not actually "seeing" electricity, and that's justification for praising propaganda meant to confuse children about the veracity of science.
Yeah, it's basically a bait and switch, where they try to equate the more simple concept of electricity as seen at the 4th grade level, with the more complex stuff going on with electromagnetism at an elementary particle level.
But i do have to point out that it's not anything "philosophical".
Electrons orbit the nucleus with nothing holding them together but their charge.
But their implication in that image skips a few steps between that and what comes out of your wall socket, to try to make a "point" which isn't actually accurate, technically or not.
figmentPez
Staff member
Talking about if you can "see" electricity is philosophical.
FTFY. Generally in these types of discussions a few basic assumptions are made, mainly that we live in a universe with rules, we can trust our senses, and it's possible to know things. Because otherwise discussion becomes more or less pointless, see... half of what's been written in the past few pages of this thread.
Nah, pocket universes.
Nah dude, that's the thing, what fade was on about is well accepted physics. The 4 fundamental forces are undeniable facts under the assumptions you stated. And they do keep stuff together without touching etc.But my point was that even with that the 1st paragraph isn't actually correct, because electricity, especially for a 4th grader, is a more of a exact phenomenon (electrons moving around a conductor). While what he was talking about is more accurately described as electromagnetism (which is the ultimate reason behind electricity).
If we're going to go into that much detail for electricity, we might as well do that for a rock, which is also held together by electromagnetism (between atoms, and for the electrons in said atoms) and the strong force (the nucleus of the atoms) etc.
But if you replace their example of electricity with a rock, it becomes obvious why it doesn't work, regardless of the underlying physics.
figmentPez
Staff member
I'm gonna regret posting this, aren't I
figmentPez
Staff member
Saw this earlier this week, almost posted because "Hahaha, crypto-bro made a horrible conspiracy theory movie to fleece money out of the religious."
Kinda went from "funny" to "nauseating".
Not sure exactly how old he is. She was 14 when they started dating, he might have been 18 or 21.
Kinda went from "funny" to "nauseating".
Not sure exactly how old he is. She was 14 when they started dating, he might have been 18 or 21.
When I was at university (ie, around 19 or 20) I encountered a girl on a MUD I play that started flirting with me, and we became closer, and then I learned from one of her IRL friends who also played on the MUD that she's actually 14. And I immediately felt skeeved out and stopped all inappropriateness from there on out. I'm like the biggest pervert the northern hemisphere has ever seen, and even I can stay far, far away from that line.
Also severals years later this girl and I reconnected on Facebook and she's now the one who posts a bunch of Wiccan stuff on my Facebook feed.