If they burn the same books I'd argue that there is no value in noting such a distinction.
Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats
- Thread starter GasBandit
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In terms of punishment or effects of the behavior, sure. But if you want to circumvent or fix the problem that leads to it, then the distinction is critical.
You're distinguishing leaders and followers in the same ideology. Prevention is ripping it out at the source
Not really. You can't reason people out of positions they haven't reasoned themselves into and so long as there are idiots who hold a position that they want catered to you'll have people ignoring morality and sense to cater to them.
So in the end the only option that will work in both cases is denying them a platform to spew their bullshit.
Then they'll have their own platforms where they won't get questioned. Reasonable people need to be able to argue their positions instead of excusing them as common sense
You let fascists and racists infest a website it becomes a racist/ fascist website. They don't argue in good faith so there is no point in letting them on to spew their bullshit which drives away people who aren't racists and fascists leaving you with only the fucking edgelords who push themselves further and further down those roads till you get the Unite the Right rally.
It's why Somethingawful and 4chan as rough as they are didn't turn into fucking 8kun. You have a spot that allows it and they will take it over.
Moderation's great, that's different from letting them have a platform of their own where it will be a lot easier to pull people in their direction. It's people on the slippery slope to supporting extremism that need these issues broken down in a way they can understand. Normal people genuinely do not get why certain internet figures are controversial and there has been a lack of explanation for them bc it is assumed they should already know better
Used to be the far right would get deplatformed into ghettos like stormfront where they would only have their own kind. Now they can work their magic on normies in larger communities like gab where there is nobody to the left of reagan
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I mean I'm pretty clearly advocating not letting them have a platform to spew bullshit from.
It is odd how you believe that this is a point in your favor since gab is clearly an example of the kind of cesspool I'm talking about. It's an unmoderated mess that will red pill people towards radicalism.
Except that normal people who lack internet awareness will not see the radicalism before it creeps into them. On the surface, it's presented as the free speech alternative to twitter and there is nothing to suggest otherwise bc the right is dominating the propaganda war. It wouldn't be an issue if it had the appearance of a nazi cesspool
How are you going to stop them from owning their own sites? You have to be able to fight this logically and openly or the moderates will continue to enable the extremists
Radicalization happens on Facebook with the algorithm suggesting more and more extreme facebook groups. Or by YouTube jerking the wheel hard right whenever somebody searches for something to the right of Bernie Sanders. It doesn't happen in their cesspools. It happens on websites we all use that claim letting Nazis spew their bullshit is acceptable free speech. It happens because people believe that fascism and racism are acceptable worldviews that should get equal support and with it you allows fascists and racists to infest and give them cover to spread.
Moderates will always enable the extremists. That's why I have no respect for moderates.
It's why Germany has a flat ban on the swastika cause first you allow somebody to display the swastika because his father died on D-day recovering the nazi flag you have to then allow somebody to display the swastika for X reasons and then you have a beer hall putsch. And who knows if the world can survive that the second time around.
If deplatforming worked then the influence of the far right would be weaker than it was five years ago. It's not, they are gaining ground and ignoring them won't do any good
Hating the moderates for being unenlightened is a huge part of the problem. You should have a responsibility to help them. When you spit on them like this that's when the right shows them kindness and guides them. A lot of these people are not really as far right as you or even they think they are, they've been misled from propaganda being unavoidable. We've all been misled and hurt by the media. I have had a lot more progress arguing with conservatives about specific progressive policies while avoid ideological words than I have from working with any smug libs. You're advocating doing nothing and hoping it will all just work out on its own
Hating the moderates for being unenlightened is a huge part of the problem. You should have a responsibility to help them. When you spit on them like this that's when the right shows them kindness and guides them. A lot of these people are not really as far right as you or even they think they are, they've been misled from propaganda being unavoidable. We've all been misled and hurt by the media. I have had a lot more progress arguing with conservatives about specific progressive policies while avoid ideological words than I have from working with any smug libs. You're advocating doing nothing and hoping it will all just work out on its own
It happens because people that refuse to relent keep pressuring people who will.
"Can I have a cookie?" "No." "Can I have a cookie?" "No." "Can I have a cookie?" "If I give you a cookie, do you promise to leave me alone?" "Yes." "Ok, here is a cookie."
.
.
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"...can I have another cookie?"
--Patrick
"Can I have a cookie?" "No." "Can I have a cookie?" "No." "Can I have a cookie?" "If I give you a cookie, do you promise to leave me alone?" "Yes." "Ok, here is a cookie."
.
.
.
"...can I have another cookie?"
--Patrick
If we were deplatforming them you would have a point but youtube and facebook have dragged ass for years to avoid doing so.
I have no responsibility for anybody but myself. And I'm not the one who is advocating keeping things the same and accepting the L for the sake of "free speech" that's 100% your entire point.
If you're not trolling me then I think you must be too dumb to understand any of my points
Is your point that we need to have an open and frank discussion of ideas with fascists and racists to convince moderates that those ideas are destructive and wrong for society? That kicking them off popular platforms only leads to them making their own groups free of counter points?
If so I understand your point just fine I just believe that it plays into the hands of those who would destroy democracy. If not you should make your point better cause that isn't what you've been saying.
Oh blow it out your ass, I've said pretty clearly over and over that you need to fight propaganda with propaganda. Your understanding is not my problem. This has not been an issue in the real world, where I am working my politics bc I care about other people and can show them a better way
Jfc grow up
Jesus Christ....
alaskalandmine.com
I listen to It Could Happen Here and that show should probably change it's name to It's Happening Here Right Now.
APD Chief McCoy announced resignation in response to improper demands by Bronson administration, sources claim
In recent weeks, many have been puzzled by Anchorage Police Chief Kenneth McCoy’s sudden and unexplained announcement...
alaskalandmine.com
I listen to It Could Happen Here and that show should probably change it's name to It's Happening Here Right Now.
OTOH, for the right price, the governor will deploy the National Guard wherever you like.
I guess China is doing to Tibetans what we in NA did to the natives. It went SUPER well here, can't wait to find out what residential schools will do for Tibet.
Eh, they've been trying to destroy Tibetan culture for literal decades now. Thema, the Uyghurs, the Utsuls,... And they're better at it than most.I guess China is doing to Tibetans what we in NA did to the natives. It went SUPER well here, can't wait to find out what residential schools will do for Tibet.
GasBandit
Staff member
I mean, what are we going to do, actually find some way to hold them accountable which doesn't collapse the world economy or start world war 3?
China's in a position where the only thing stopping them from doing whatever they want is their own bureaucratic inertia. Problem is, that also makes it impossible to change their mind once they start doing something, too.
I mean, there IS, but it would require some people to just give stuff away with zero expectation of return/recompense, and that seems unlikely.
--Patrick