[Gaming] Mass Effect 3 : It's here and thy ending is queeeeeeer.
- Thread starter Jay
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I am also mad that I didn't get to beat the shit out of Harbinger. I don't think we even see him die in the Reaper death ending (it's obviously implied he does, but I wanted to see it) That guy taunted me all through ME2 about how superior they were, and then when I finally see him, not only does he say nothing, he roasts my fucking ass and then leaves like a bitch.
I was so disappointed with the Reapers in general. Sovereign was such a great twist in the first game, and when he revealed himself you knew, OH SHIT, this is getting big now. That is not a ship, it's a sentient robot that is about to fuck your shit. He talks throughout the whole thing.
Then in ME2 we have Harbinger, like I said earlier, taunting you all the time through direct control of the Collectors. He even taunts you during Arrival. ME3 the only one we hear talk is that one on Rannoch, the rest of the time it's all WAAAAHAHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGG like I was in that Tom Cruise war of the worlds movie. I wanted to hear them coming down to Earth and hearing them go "We are here to harvest and destroy, you will fail", something, anything, to show they are intelligent, not just WAAAAAHAHHHHHGGGGGGGGGG like they were honking their mega-horns in traffic.
I was so disappointed with the Reapers in general. Sovereign was such a great twist in the first game, and when he revealed himself you knew, OH SHIT, this is getting big now. That is not a ship, it's a sentient robot that is about to fuck your shit. He talks throughout the whole thing.
Then in ME2 we have Harbinger, like I said earlier, taunting you all the time through direct control of the Collectors. He even taunts you during Arrival. ME3 the only one we hear talk is that one on Rannoch, the rest of the time it's all WAAAAHAHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGG like I was in that Tom Cruise war of the worlds movie. I wanted to hear them coming down to Earth and hearing them go "We are here to harvest and destroy, you will fail", something, anything, to show they are intelligent, not just WAAAAAHAHHHHHGGGGGGGGGG like they were honking their mega-horns in traffic.
Let's be honest, Gabe built his fortune on Hats and the anger of his fans.
I'd imagine Steam has more to do with it.
Valve's DLC system promotes brand loyalty. They ported all the L4D1 maps over to L4D2, all for free. Could they have charged for them? Five bucks, ten bucks, for a L4D1 map pack? Of course they could, and people would buy it up in droves. But they didn't. They basically used the free content as an investment, and the return on their investment is that Valve fanboys will remain Valve fanboys.
I used to be a Bioware fanboy, back in the days of Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age 1. Now I'm no longer a Bioware fanboy.
I do, however, remain a Valve fanboy. They're not perfect, but they understand the importance of the customer's perception.
Now if only they'd HURRY THE FUCK UP WITH EPISODE THREE.
I used to be a Bioware fanboy, back in the days of Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age 1. Now I'm no longer a Bioware fanboy.
I do, however, remain a Valve fanboy. They're not perfect, but they understand the importance of the customer's perception.
Now if only they'd HURRY THE FUCK UP WITH EPISODE THREE.
That video was trying a bit to hard to make mysteries out of nothing. Some of the points were good, others can be explained away as either changes to gameplay for story convenience or simply not important, like the fact Shepard "stops bleeding" once taken up to the top of the Citadel. His best points are in the end.
Also, I really don't think the endings are supposed to be implied that he is "dead" and/or it's all a "dream". You don't have those types of endings without some sort of implication that it would be, think the ending of Inception for an example.
Also, I really don't think the endings are supposed to be implied that he is "dead" and/or it's all a "dream". You don't have those types of endings without some sort of implication that it would be, think the ending of Inception for an example.
I have faith in Bioware pulling something crazy out. I refuse to accept that those endings are what they seem at face value.
Read. Shit brix.
http://social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/1
Can you IMAGINE the implications -- the sheer genius of this crazy move -- if this is true?
Read. Shit brix.
http://social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/1
Can you IMAGINE the implications -- the sheer genius of this crazy move -- if this is true?
Yeah.Judging from the reactions of the people here and all around the webs,I have put ME3 singleplayer on hiatus.
Gonna keep playing MP though.
Gonna keep playing MP though.
It's still a great game, no matter what you think of the last 15 minutes
It wouldn't be genius, it would be straight bullshit trolling.
I know 2 coworkers now who're pissed off about it and my brother, who's the biggest Mass Effect fan I know, sold his copy back to EB today. If Bioware's GENIUS plan was alienate their fanbase, then I guess that worked out.
I feel like I'm the least angry person about it. I hated the ending, don't get me wrong, but I was never furious about it.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...and-the-pernicious-myth-of-gamer-entitlement/
This right here. The fucking enthusiast press (the most entitled bunch of manbabies in existence. I can't count how many podcasts I've listened to where there was a whine here and there about not getting enough free copies of games to review) use of the world entitled has made me loathe the word to the point of it being an instant anger button. I hear or read someone using the word and my first instinct is to break their nose.
This right here. The fucking enthusiast press (the most entitled bunch of manbabies in existence. I can't count how many podcasts I've listened to where there was a whine here and there about not getting enough free copies of games to review) use of the world entitled has made me loathe the word to the point of it being an instant anger button. I hear or read someone using the word and my first instinct is to break their nose.
Soooo... DON'T buy the game, then?
I'm not angry, but I am annoyed that my renegade decisions were replaced with clones.
For the record, I was actually disheartened/pissed when I found out about the endings as well, but let's suspend disbelief for a moment and say that it is true:
The ending is Shepard, injured from the battle, fighting indoctrination by the reapers, and the entire scene is a hallucination. The Star-Child presents you with your three choices, and in the confines of the Reaper-dream, fighting back isn't an option (as you are not actually making the choices in the game's reality -- only in Shepard's dream). In real life, you agonize -- what's the "best" choice? Perhaps the Reapers aren't so bad after all -- perhaps they can indeed be controlled by Shepard, or perhaps synthesis IS the best option.
This is, of course, ignoring the fact that for three games, you have been told that the Reapers are evil, that they need to be destroyed, and that thinking any other way is a sure path to indoctrination (you can also see TIM and Saren -- both strong-willed men, by all accounts -- fall to their versions of the Control and Synthesis endings, respectively.) I don't think that it's any coincidence that the only ending in which you see Shepard alive is if you pick destruction AND your EMS score is high enough.
Now, let's say that this scene wasn't the actual end in the release game and you knew there was another 1-2 hours of game after this, and in the days/weeks before the game's release, people with leaked copies figure out the only way to proceed is if you have a high EMS score and pick the red button. We'd all do it without a second thought, and the effect would be completely lost. (How many of you used a guide for the suicide mission teams to make sure your entire squad made it out alive? I know I did.) But if this is true, it allows the player to experience indoctrination firsthand, unspoiled.
Is it trolling? I mean, yeah, kind of. But if this is the sort of ride Bioware's going to take me on, I'm OK with it. They're fucking with us, but I'm not so sure it's in a malicious way. They always try to involve the player in the game, to get them to make the hard choices, and letting them struggle with the effects of indoctrination in real life IS genius, even if they had to alienate some of the fan base for it.
This whole thing could be a bunch of desperate Biodrones clinging to hope, but I figure I'm going to be disappointed either way if I'm wrong, so I might as well drink the Kool-Aid. (That said, if they release the actual ending as paid DLC, I'm going to be mighty pissed because that IS total bullshit, but we all know how much EA hates the used games market -- I would be willing to bet a fair amount of money at this point that they have some free DLC up their sleeves.)
There are dozens of reasons supporting the theory in the almost 400-page thread I linked above, all of which make damn good sense, but I'm not going to bother to list them here. I was skeptical too until I read some of the thread.
This is, of course, ignoring the fact that for three games, you have been told that the Reapers are evil, that they need to be destroyed, and that thinking any other way is a sure path to indoctrination (you can also see TIM and Saren -- both strong-willed men, by all accounts -- fall to their versions of the Control and Synthesis endings, respectively.) I don't think that it's any coincidence that the only ending in which you see Shepard alive is if you pick destruction AND your EMS score is high enough.
Now, let's say that this scene wasn't the actual end in the release game and you knew there was another 1-2 hours of game after this, and in the days/weeks before the game's release, people with leaked copies figure out the only way to proceed is if you have a high EMS score and pick the red button. We'd all do it without a second thought, and the effect would be completely lost. (How many of you used a guide for the suicide mission teams to make sure your entire squad made it out alive? I know I did.) But if this is true, it allows the player to experience indoctrination firsthand, unspoiled.
Is it trolling? I mean, yeah, kind of. But if this is the sort of ride Bioware's going to take me on, I'm OK with it. They're fucking with us, but I'm not so sure it's in a malicious way. They always try to involve the player in the game, to get them to make the hard choices, and letting them struggle with the effects of indoctrination in real life IS genius, even if they had to alienate some of the fan base for it.
This whole thing could be a bunch of desperate Biodrones clinging to hope, but I figure I'm going to be disappointed either way if I'm wrong, so I might as well drink the Kool-Aid. (That said, if they release the actual ending as paid DLC, I'm going to be mighty pissed because that IS total bullshit, but we all know how much EA hates the used games market -- I would be willing to bet a fair amount of money at this point that they have some free DLC up their sleeves.)
There are dozens of reasons supporting the theory in the almost 400-page thread I linked above, all of which make damn good sense, but I'm not going to bother to list them here. I was skeptical too until I read some of the thread.
Uh huh, whatever floats your boat
I'll be with the 95% of people who won't accept this bullshit cop out ending and feel the following :
To me, people who are satisfied by this ending is about the equivalent of going to a restoraunt, ordering a plate they have been looking forward to and having it completely improperly done for them and having it taste like shite. Instead of reacting to this, they take it is in the proverbial ass, make up artsy fartsy excuses for it and accept it and pay full value for it.
The cherry on top is when they compliment it fakely and provide a tip.
Bullshit.
I call fucking Bullshit.
This ending is not acceptable and while I cannot change the opinions of those who feel otherwise makes me pity them pretty hard that these people will blindly follow a company who quite frankly has put out a massive stain to its fanbase and fan service.
A stain that has been repeated from their latest debacle (DA2) but I feel is now a more important problem as the ME fan base far exceeded the DA fan base.
And there's far more than just the ending that leads to that conclusion.
I'm still not able to fully be able to calmly state how I feel about what happened without probably losing it and insulting others in the process.... all I know is....
I won't see ANY fruits of my labors....
I won't be having drinks with Garrus....
I won't be sharing Serrice Ice Brandy with Dr. Chakwas....
I won't be building a house with Tali on Rannoc.... right there....
Damn it Bioware.
Damn you.
I'll be with the 95% of people who won't accept this bullshit cop out ending and feel the following :
To me, people who are satisfied by this ending is about the equivalent of going to a restoraunt, ordering a plate they have been looking forward to and having it completely improperly done for them and having it taste like shite. Instead of reacting to this, they take it is in the proverbial ass, make up artsy fartsy excuses for it and accept it and pay full value for it.
The cherry on top is when they compliment it fakely and provide a tip.
Bullshit.
I call fucking Bullshit.
This ending is not acceptable and while I cannot change the opinions of those who feel otherwise makes me pity them pretty hard that these people will blindly follow a company who quite frankly has put out a massive stain to its fanbase and fan service.
A stain that has been repeated from their latest debacle (DA2) but I feel is now a more important problem as the ME fan base far exceeded the DA fan base.
And there's far more than just the ending that leads to that conclusion.
I'm still not able to fully be able to calmly state how I feel about what happened without probably losing it and insulting others in the process.... all I know is....
I won't see ANY fruits of my labors....
I won't be having drinks with Garrus....
I won't be sharing Serrice Ice Brandy with Dr. Chakwas....
I won't be building a house with Tali on Rannoc.... right there....
Damn it Bioware.
Damn you.
I don't agree. The problem is that these types of events need to be hinted drastically. They need to be established early, hint to the act, and then realized, and then when the people are like "oh oh it might be a dream!" you hit them with the ending.
Take Inception for example. They establish early on, in fine detail, the rules of the process. The nature of it, how it happens, why it happens. They explain and built up to the climax, ending with him spinning the top. It leaves a satisfying ambiguous ending because you don't know if he is still dreaming, or awake.
In ME3 they don't establish this at all. We never learn what goes on with Indoctrination. Having it suddenly happen in the end, with no explanation, and most importantly, no general payoff, leaves it hollow. It is not genius at all, it is lazy, it is simple, and it is mishandled.
Now you are probably asking "But Inception didn't have the payoff!" and that is true in a sense, but that was because the ending was supposed to be left at the point where the question is asked. The ending of ME3 not only shows us what happens, but shows us events following what happens, with no hint that such world was just him hallucinating it. If the ending was him picking his choice, and then silence, an explosion happening, and then black, that would be ambiguous. We would have to form the following events in our head if something was fishy or not. They don't, because they drag it out to the explosions, the reapers actions, and the crew crash.
Now lets say for argument that, yes, the world Shepard saw on top of the Crucible was his mind simply going through a process of Indoctrination, where he saw the choices as presented to him in his mind by the Catalyst/Reaper who was trying to edge him toward the correct "path". We now have two problems. Either the ending has no meaning, as everything is nothing but a "dream", thus having zero "true" conclusions, which many would consider a worst outcome. Or the endings as they are chosen are true, and it was simply his perceptions up until his death that lead to the choice being made. If that is the case the events AFTER his death are no longer a dream, but the conclusion of his choice he forced out while Indoctrinated, thus the problem still persists about why everyone hates the endings (the explosions, the crash, the lack of closure).
The post you linked is interesting, but it's grasping, it's grasping hard. It is attempting to bend the events as much as possible like a man attempting to bend a 2 inch pipe to fit a five mile curved gap. A good example is the focus on the coloring of the "flashbacks" when the intention of the coloring was not for purposes of Paragon or Renegade, but was supposed to represent the color of the action that was to follow. That is an Occam's Razor.
Take Inception for example. They establish early on, in fine detail, the rules of the process. The nature of it, how it happens, why it happens. They explain and built up to the climax, ending with him spinning the top. It leaves a satisfying ambiguous ending because you don't know if he is still dreaming, or awake.
In ME3 they don't establish this at all. We never learn what goes on with Indoctrination. Having it suddenly happen in the end, with no explanation, and most importantly, no general payoff, leaves it hollow. It is not genius at all, it is lazy, it is simple, and it is mishandled.
Now you are probably asking "But Inception didn't have the payoff!" and that is true in a sense, but that was because the ending was supposed to be left at the point where the question is asked. The ending of ME3 not only shows us what happens, but shows us events following what happens, with no hint that such world was just him hallucinating it. If the ending was him picking his choice, and then silence, an explosion happening, and then black, that would be ambiguous. We would have to form the following events in our head if something was fishy or not. They don't, because they drag it out to the explosions, the reapers actions, and the crew crash.
Now lets say for argument that, yes, the world Shepard saw on top of the Crucible was his mind simply going through a process of Indoctrination, where he saw the choices as presented to him in his mind by the Catalyst/Reaper who was trying to edge him toward the correct "path". We now have two problems. Either the ending has no meaning, as everything is nothing but a "dream", thus having zero "true" conclusions, which many would consider a worst outcome. Or the endings as they are chosen are true, and it was simply his perceptions up until his death that lead to the choice being made. If that is the case the events AFTER his death are no longer a dream, but the conclusion of his choice he forced out while Indoctrinated, thus the problem still persists about why everyone hates the endings (the explosions, the crash, the lack of closure).
The post you linked is interesting, but it's grasping, it's grasping hard. It is attempting to bend the events as much as possible like a man attempting to bend a 2 inch pipe to fit a five mile curved gap. A good example is the focus on the coloring of the "flashbacks" when the intention of the coloring was not for purposes of Paragon or Renegade, but was supposed to represent the color of the action that was to follow. That is an Occam's Razor.
S
Soliloquy
Perhaps they'll fix everything in the upcoming anime slated to be released this fall?
Or maybe it'll be stupid?
Or maybe it'll be stupid?
Here's why I think the ending is a dream, and that shep died on the citadel and failed his mission. It also supports From Ashes as being cut content from the original design.
Javik.
We learn a lot about the Protheans from Javik. Everything that he tells us mirrors Sheperds journey, and the journey of all of the galaxy, and we are lead to believe that the cycle before him did the exact same. Even the crucible was from previous cycles, going so far back that, like the reapers and the relays, no one knows where it came from, or what it really does. Even the event that started it all, the beacon that alerts Sheperd to the original reaper threat, is recreated by Liara as she scatters time capsules across the galaxy, just in case.
The protheans even had their own Geth, and their own TIM. Javik talks about the rise of the synthetics starting the coming of the extinction cycle, and how the reapers divided their forces by convincing some that they could be controlled instead of destroyed.
Every detail we learn about the past cycles mirrors the current. They can't even tell -what- the crucible will do. They build it because they have no other choice, because it is a war they cannot win.
And at the end, Shepard fails. He fails just like every cycle past failed. He opens the citadel, they attach the crucible, and it does nothing. Because it was a false hope planted by the reapers.
And then he dies, and everything after is his dying hallucination, as hinted at by the appearance of the boy that appears in every one of his nightmares. The reason they kept showing those nightmares and the boy in them is to let you make the conclusion that the appearance of the boy = dream.
Javik.
We learn a lot about the Protheans from Javik. Everything that he tells us mirrors Sheperds journey, and the journey of all of the galaxy, and we are lead to believe that the cycle before him did the exact same. Even the crucible was from previous cycles, going so far back that, like the reapers and the relays, no one knows where it came from, or what it really does. Even the event that started it all, the beacon that alerts Sheperd to the original reaper threat, is recreated by Liara as she scatters time capsules across the galaxy, just in case.
The protheans even had their own Geth, and their own TIM. Javik talks about the rise of the synthetics starting the coming of the extinction cycle, and how the reapers divided their forces by convincing some that they could be controlled instead of destroyed.
Every detail we learn about the past cycles mirrors the current. They can't even tell -what- the crucible will do. They build it because they have no other choice, because it is a war they cannot win.
And at the end, Shepard fails. He fails just like every cycle past failed. He opens the citadel, they attach the crucible, and it does nothing. Because it was a false hope planted by the reapers.
And then he dies, and everything after is his dying hallucination, as hinted at by the appearance of the boy that appears in every one of his nightmares. The reason they kept showing those nightmares and the boy in them is to let you make the conclusion that the appearance of the boy = dream.
I didn't overanalyze every facet to come to this conclusion. It was the actual first impression I got after watching the end, and I rather liked it.
You know, I've read over both of my posts, and I was so busy trying to defend how cool the whole thing was that I don't think I made myself entirely clear what I'm hoping for (an unfortunate hazard of trying to post at work/right before bed.)
I think this move kicks ass IF -- as a lot of people are hoping and Bioware may or may not be coyly alluding to over various tweets and such -- they release the real ending as *FREE* DLC (at least for people who bought the game new on PC -- the console disks have been confirmed to be 6GB larger, so the true ending may already be there), and soon. If Mass Effect 3 ends like it did, yes, it's bullshit for all the reasons you're saying (as cool as the indoctrination theory is either way, it's still bullshit for a game to end like that.) If they make us pay for the REAL ending, yes, it's bullshit. If they make us wait a week or two for our epic boss fight and brandy with Chakwas and mushy scene with our various love interests (Dat Azzz aka Miranda, in my case)? Imokaywiththis.
The game isn't even out globally yet (they will be tomorrow). They don't want to confirm/deny anything either way at this point. With DA2, they came out and said "yes, these are the final endings" -- they'll do the same with Mass Effect 3, or they'll announce what they have planned. The fan backlash demands it. If they do say it's over but ZOMG we can buy a new map pack for $7.99!!!, I'll be on the board with the rest of you bitching about it. If not? Well, I won't be here, because I'll be finishing my game
The game isn't even out globally yet (they will be tomorrow). They don't want to confirm/deny anything either way at this point. With DA2, they came out and said "yes, these are the final endings" -- they'll do the same with Mass Effect 3, or they'll announce what they have planned. The fan backlash demands it. If they do say it's over but ZOMG we can buy a new map pack for $7.99!!!, I'll be on the board with the rest of you bitching about it. If not? Well, I won't be here, because I'll be finishing my game
Seriously... if this is actually how the end is... it's the most bullshit ending to a game I've ever experienced. Hundreds of hours invested in multiple playthroughs through 3 games over 5 years to end in... "LOLZ YOU LOST... GAME OVER REAPERZ WINZORZZ!!!" Bullshit... I'm not buying it.
Like mentioned before me, such an ending would be more of a slap in the face then the one we have now. You don't have people spent three games crafting a storyline only for the player to lose no matter what. We play games to have a chance to win, that is the nature of games in general. This is one of the reasons I hated, with a passion, an old game called Haven: Call of the King. You play the game working your ass off, helping your friends, all to call some great savior, and then what happens? You lose to the bad guy in the final boss fight no matter what, he kills the savior, straps you to a rock, and leaves you to starve to death. The camera starts zooming out with the voices of the people you met, telling you that you should never have gotten involved. Everything you attempted in the end was for nothing at all and even all your friends taunt you for it.
Even taking all that, at least Haven was upfront about the fact (and in part because of the ending, the series died). If Mass Effect 3 was simply implying we are in a dream and at no point during the entire thing, actually CONFIRMS this fact, then it did it's job poorly. You always have to establish something to represent the dream, and the biggest representation of the dream in my opinion was the shadowy figures floating around, the slightly desaturated coloring of the background, and the fact Shepard could only move at a snail speed, even when running. The only thing that carried over into this "death dream" would be the boy. Then we also see Shepard "waking up" around rubble if you get the secret ending after the Destruction option, which means it has to be after he blew up something to cause all that rubble. It wouldn't be him "dying" at the console on the Citadel, unless his awakening was also supposed to be part of the dream, and then what is the point of showing it?
I have said it before, but so many people are spending way to much time bending a pipe that is not long enough to bend that way. There was no real foreshadowing. If the dreams were foreshadowing, they have no consistency. If the ending was a dream, we have no conclusion, all we have is defeat. In all case the story was told poorly, will leave more people angry then happy, because a three game trilogy ended with a whimper. When it comes to all this discussion, again, Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is usually the right one. Arguing dreams, Indoctrination, small implications and fan based attempts to fill plot holes through further implication just continues to complicate the whole thing.
Even taking all that, at least Haven was upfront about the fact (and in part because of the ending, the series died). If Mass Effect 3 was simply implying we are in a dream and at no point during the entire thing, actually CONFIRMS this fact, then it did it's job poorly. You always have to establish something to represent the dream, and the biggest representation of the dream in my opinion was the shadowy figures floating around, the slightly desaturated coloring of the background, and the fact Shepard could only move at a snail speed, even when running. The only thing that carried over into this "death dream" would be the boy. Then we also see Shepard "waking up" around rubble if you get the secret ending after the Destruction option, which means it has to be after he blew up something to cause all that rubble. It wouldn't be him "dying" at the console on the Citadel, unless his awakening was also supposed to be part of the dream, and then what is the point of showing it?
I have said it before, but so many people are spending way to much time bending a pipe that is not long enough to bend that way. There was no real foreshadowing. If the dreams were foreshadowing, they have no consistency. If the ending was a dream, we have no conclusion, all we have is defeat. In all case the story was told poorly, will leave more people angry then happy, because a three game trilogy ended with a whimper. When it comes to all this discussion, again, Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is usually the right one. Arguing dreams, Indoctrination, small implications and fan based attempts to fill plot holes through further implication just continues to complicate the whole thing.
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