Rant VI: Now Drama Free

[Hailey Knight]

It's a character performing an action; action needs motivation.

"that's what she does" is what Null posted her reason. I think your reason is a good idea, but she had no idea. Again, as a reader, you might not feel it matters, and for all I know, the story as written might sell it strong enough that I wouldn't notice when reading. But if an editor asked and her reason is "that's what she does", that won't be enough. And I imagine that since she's in a professional workshop, she cares about getting published in the future, not just writing for herself. Otherwise there would've been no reason to react like that to Null. I'd even guess that her reaction might have come because she realized she had a story weakness and she became defensive on instinct. It's not that unusual.

What is unusual to me is that she cobbled this together a week before, it's clearly something for the class, not something deeply personal, she would probably not have those kind of weaknesses in something she really cared about, and yet she has this reaction to Null's questioning.

 

[makare]

I guess in all the fantasy stories I've read where dragons horde treasures I never wondered why. It really is just what they do. They are dragons.

 

[Hailey Knight]

I always figured it was the collection of places they destroyed, warriors they killed, etc, like a trophy, not that they were by nature pack-rats in general.

...I wonder if that's the reason in Null's friend's story.

 

[Null]

I wonder, too. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm saying that she should know how things work in her own created worlds. If you only have 3 main characters, you, as their writer, should have some idea about *why* they do what they do. Okay, she saves books and scrolls - why? She wants to preserve knowledge - but she doesn't know what the books and scrolls contain until this scribe reads them to her. Again, there are plenty of potential reasons for doing so that make a good story. The problem is that she didn't seem to think a reason was needed, and that's a HUGE problem if you think you want to write. I'll post the rest of it.

me: Why does she save information she can't use?
Carrie: Because she's a collector of knowledge. And she hoped to find someone who would read them to her.
3:00 PM Why do dragon's collect treasures? It's the same idea/
me: Well, typically dragons hoard wealth out of greed, and because they are often worshipped as gods by superstitious locals, who aren't necessarily wrong.
3:01 PM Some bits are trophies, some are tributes...
3:02 PM And probably because wealthy is seen as symbolic of power.
3:04 PM Carrie: So is a wealth of knowledge. In the middle ages a book cost a lot of money. So a cavern full of books is actually worth more than a cavern full of gold.
me: To the right people - gold is valuable to everyone.
And knowledge expires.
Carrie: Does it? Why are we still reading Homer or the Bible?
me: It's just a question the reader has to ask - why does a dragon hoard human knowledge?
3:05 PM Because they're stories. Stories are timeless. Treatises on the grain markets of ancient Rome are less so.
3:07 PM Classified government secrets even more so. Like the state of the art of ancient warfare, the catapult, or navigational charts.
3:09 PM It's just something that seems like a "because I want it to" instead of "this makes sense in the world for these reasons" kind of thing.
3:10 PM Carrie: Is it really so weird for a sentient dragon to want to collect knowledge? We do it all the time.
3:11 PM me: We collect knowledge from other humans.
A dragon is not a human.
3:13 PM Carrie: You know what? This conversation is over. You don't nitpick like this on other fantasy stories.
3:14 PM me: Yes, I do. How many times have we talked over bits of The Wheel of Time for hours?
Carrie: I'll talk to you later.

So in essence, the dragon collects knowledge because she wants to collect knowledge.

 

[LittleSin]

I have a friend like this. He doesn't think his ideas thorugh to the end and gets sooky if you find any fault in his ideas. I've known him for 10 years now and I have come up with a good system to get him to listen to me.

Basically, I praise him a bit, tell him what I like...then I say "wouldn't it be cool if...." or "Can you tell me why/how they do this...?" He responds well to this line of questioning, where it looks like I'm agreeing with or loving everything he says.

 

[makare]

I don't really want to argue about it but I disagree that it is a required part of writing. Some of my best story elements have been unplanned or not thought out. Sometimes things just come together.

 

[Hailey Knight]

Eh, I think you went a little overboard with all that additional stuff, Null. You probably should have stopped it earlier. I still think her blocking communication is dumb, but you should've realized where things were going early in the part you just posted, and stopped. It's different than arguing over a series by someone you don't know personally.

Everyone's different in how they handle criticism. Some people need coaxing, like LittleSin's friend, some launch questions back such as "What can I do to improve it?" and then some get upset, but no one can look at their own work as impassively as we look at a stranger's.

 

[Null]

I don't really want to argue about it but I disagree that it is a required part of writing. Some of my best story elements have been unplanned or not thought out. Sometimes things just come together.

Things can be unplanned, but they have to be justified. I love the, "What if..." ideas, but unless you can justify the idea, you can't use it.

---------- Post added at 01:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 AM ----------

Eh, I think you went a little overboard with all that additional stuff, Null. You probably should have stopped it earlier. I still think her blocking communication is dumb, but you should've realized where things were going early in the part you just posted, and stopped. It's different than arguing over a series by someone you don't know personally.

Everyone's different in how they handle criticism. Some people need coaxing, like LittleSin's friend, some launch questions back such as "What can I do to improve it?" and then some get upset, but no one can look at their own work as impassively as we look at a stranger's.

Yeah, I probably just should have let it go. I guess that was my resentment in action - she can just drop everything and have her folks drop a few grand for her to go to a major workshop, and she's not a particularly good writer. I even know how she's going to handle critiques of her work: "They just don't get it and they're trying to be mean."

 

[makare]

but how is, she wants to preserve knowledge not an answer to the what if? that is what i dont understand.

 

[Null]

but how is, she wants to preserve knowledge not an answer to the what if? that is what i dont understand.

"She saves knowledge because she wants to save knowledge" is not a sufficient answer. It's not a motivation. Especially since she doesn't know what knowledge she's saving.

 

[Hailey Knight]

I guess that was my resentment in action

If this was a real friendship, I think you need to spend less thought on her story weaknesses, and more on this one of yours, because it's way more important than her hastily written fairy tale, and will last a lot longer.

 

[Null]

I guess that was my resentment in action

If this was a real friendship, I think you need to spend less thought on her story weaknesses, and more on this one of yours, because it's way more important than her hastily written fairy tale, and will last a lot longer.[/QUOTE]

We've been friends for more than a decade. This is not the end of things, by far. I appreciate you saying it's not a real friendship, though.

 

[Hailey Knight]

I guess that was my resentment in action

If this was a real friendship, I think you need to spend less thought on her story weaknesses, and more on this one of yours, because it's way more important than her hastily written fairy tale, and will last a lot longer.[/QUOTE]

We've been friends for more than a decade. This is not the end of things, by far. I appreciate you saying it's not a real friendship, though.[/QUOTE]

That was some bad wording and I apologize. I meant, "if this is", because her reaction is puzzling and that she blocked you would be the end of contact, so I wasn't sure. Length doesn't make closeness for everyone; all relations are different. I also did think you meant she was treating this as the end of things, so I'm glad that I was wrong and misinterpreted the first post.

Simply put: Don't resent her for it; as a friend, she'll probably need you if/when the workshop follows through on your prediction.

 

[Calleja]

but how is, she wants to preserve knowledge not an answer to the what if? that is what i dont understand.

I think what you're not taking into account is that by the author's own design, the dragon can not access all the knowledge she's collecting... so it'd be akin to someone collecting vast amounts of books so big you'd need a tractor to turn the pages.. without having a tractor. Why would you bother then? It's not an unreasonable question to ask and it's not hard at all to think of a valid, even poignant reason.

 

[Null]

"Because they just want to" is never good characterization. Say you have a character who makes audacious, shocking, bizarre or just random remarks in social situations. Why? Not "because they just want to". Maybe they never know what to say and are attempting to use humor as a social buffer. Maybe that character was exposed to a lot of surreal/absurd comedy when they were young and saw how positively people responded to it, so they're mimicking that. Maybe they're insecure and think by acting wierd, people will leave them alone. All of those are possible character motives. "Just because they do" is unacceptable.

 

[Dave]

My best friend's favorite uncle, a good friend of both my family and myself, was just diagnosed with inoperable stage IV glioblastoma (brain cancer).

There's not much I can say after that.

Good thoughts, man. Make his remaining time as happy as you can. Take some good memories away from all of this. You have time to grieve and say goodbye. Some people don't get that. Don't avoid him because you don't know what to say. Don't say nothing because you don't know what to say. It's hard on you and your family, but he needs you. make the time count.

 

[Cajungal]

God, I'm so sorry, Enresshou.

 

[Espy]

God, I'm so sorry, Enresshou.

Ditto to what both CG and Dave said. His family and you will be in my prayers.

 

[Wasabi Poptart]

Enresshou, I'm sorry to hear this about your friend. I completely agree with what Dave said. Take advantage of the time you still have with him even though it is hard. My thoughts are with you and his family.

 

[Hylian]

That really sucks Enresshou.

 

[Silver Jelly]

I woke up at 4:30 and haven't been able to sleep anymore, thinking about how my life just is passive time flowing, from meal to meal, with a computer mouse in one hand and a glass of coca-cola in the other. I never do anything, I never go anywhere, I have great trouble with time and space, I don't know how much money I have, I need or I spend (I spend as little as possible because of this). I get tired easily, not only because of my bad leg, but because I'm in bad shape in general. I don't like meeting new people, or doing new things. I've never had to work for money, and I've never worked for anything. I lack a purpose, be it for survival, for personal ambition or for altruistic reasons.
I'm trapped in myself, and I hate me because of this.

And that isn't nice.

 

[Null]

Jelly, I know precisely how you feel.

 

[Chazwozel]

I woke up at 4:30 and haven't been able to sleep anymore, thinking about how my life just is passive time flowing, from meal to meal, with a computer mouse in one hand and a glass of coca-cola in the other. I never do anything, I never go anywhere, I have great trouble with time and space, I don't know how much money I have, I need or I spend (I spend as little as possible because of this). I get tired easily, not only because of my bad leg, but because I'm in bad shape in general. I don't like meeting new people, or doing new things. I've never had to work for money, and I've never worked for anything. I lack a purpose, be it for survival, for personal ambition or for altruistic reasons.
I'm trapped in myself, and I hate me because of this.

And that isn't nice.

This should help:

http://www.zenguide.com/

 

[Null]

That friend of mine is talking to me again. She said she was feeling extremely sensitive and felt I was attacking her work, which she was defensive over because it was still raw.

So that's basically settled. I wish her luck because, frankly, she's going to need it.

 

[LittleSin]

In Connection with the Epic Win: I don't have $ 62.00 to spend on Weezer.

 

[Officer_Charon]

@ LS: You got PayPal?


So, yeah. Just found out I've been exposed to TB by a belligerent who has no love for police. Awesome.

 

[Chazwozel]

@ LS: You got PayPal?


So, yeah. Just found out I've been exposed to TB by a belligerent who has no love for police. Awesome.

Chest X-ray for you. You might squeeze by with no symptoms your entire life, but now it's going to be a pain in the ass every time they check you with the bubble skin test and you come up positive.

 

[Baerdog]

@ LS: You got PayPal?


So, yeah. Just found out I've been exposed to TB by a belligerent who has no love for police. Awesome.

Clearly your only recourse is to change your name to Holliday and move to Arizona to hang out with cowboys.


Or get a chest x-ray, I guess.

 

[CynicismKills]

So fucking fed up with my job. I bust my ass doing the work of 4 people for a measly 7.50 an hour, barely able to pay my bills (and am now officially behind on them), and I fuck up ONE time on Friday. They're suspending me for a whole fucking week. I've been promised raises, and had my name put in for a promotion, and no concrete answers for nearly 3 weeks no matter how often or who I ask. I'm tired of being treated like a doormat and lied to when I do everything they ask and more.

On top of this I am unable to afford going out, so I've yet to find a group of people to hang out with. I'm constantly at the apartment alone and my roommate is becoming more and more distant as he and his gf get closer (she lives with us now, too).

I'm frustrated, I'm depressed, I'm angry at myself, and I really wish I had the extra money to buy a bottle to crawl into. Instead, I am going to go sleep for the rest of the week.

 

[makare]

Im really stressed out. My mother is going off to vegas for 9 days with some of her students from the high school for this culinary arts thing. The problem is my mom has a horrible horrible gambling problem. Last summer was the worst ever she gambled away thousands of dollars. I thought my stepdad was going to leave her. It was awful. So we are worried that she is going to do that again. She says she cant promise she wont she can only do the best she can moment to moment and i understand that because that is how we have dealt with her alcoholism. I am just so scared. I am also upset because she has said "i havent gambled in months" but then she just told me that she did gamble once and AND she has spent 400 dollars in the last 4 months on facebook poker!

I just feel sick! It's like when I was a kid and we were poor living pay check to pay check and my mom would do something like gamble away our rent or our food money. I was a stressed out kid for many reasons but that was a big one. I hate reliving that now.

 

[checkeredhat]

Why, Oakville must be some crazy backwards city, because evidently the closer you are to downtown Oakville and the waterfront, with larger properties, its only $1300-$1700 a month to rent a fully detached 4 bedroom house, but near the college it's somehow $1700-$2400 to rent a 4 bedroom attached townhome! And, oddly, the cost of renting an apartment also jumps from around $300-$400 per person to $550-$650 per person along those same boundaries. How queer. SURELY this is not just because the rich people of Oakville wish to completely take advantage of desperate college students? That can't be right at all.

I hate this yuppy town.

 

[Sparhawk]

Why, Oakville must be some crazy backwards city, because evidently the closer you are to downtown Oakville and the waterfront, with larger properties, its only $1300-$1700 a month to rent a fully detached 4 bedroom house, but near the college it's somehow $1700-$2400 to rent a 4 bedroom attached townhome! And, oddly, the cost of renting an apartment also jumps from around $300-$400 per person to $550-$650 per person along those same boundaries. How queer. SURELY this is not just because the rich people of Oakville wish to completely take advantage of desperate college students? That can't be right at all.

I hate this yuppy town.

Having once been a landlord in a college town, I can honestly say the higher prices are to make up for more maintenance that has to be done for college students. I'm not saying all college kids are destructive hellions, but as a whole they are. For every 1 normal "I give a shit about what I'm living in" student you have 10 "Fuck it, I'm not gonna live here forever" kids. It sucks, but you pay for past mistakes that others committed.

 

[checkeredhat]

Why, Oakville must be some crazy backwards city, because evidently the closer you are to downtown Oakville and the waterfront, with larger properties, its only $1300-$1700 a month to rent a fully detached 4 bedroom house, but near the college it's somehow $1700-$2400 to rent a 4 bedroom attached townhome! And, oddly, the cost of renting an apartment also jumps from around $300-$400 per person to $550-$650 per person along those same boundaries. How queer. SURELY this is not just because the rich people of Oakville wish to completely take advantage of desperate college students? That can't be right at all.

I hate this yuppy town.

Having once been a landlord in a college town, I can honestly say the higher prices are to make up for more maintenance that has to be done for college students. I'm not saying all college kids are destructive hellions, but as a whole they are. For every 1 normal "I give a shit about what I'm living in" student you have 10 "Fuck it, I'm not gonna live here forever" kids. It sucks, but you pay for past mistakes that others committed.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I get that, but that should still, maybe bring the cost to just a bit more than the cost of renting a nicer property. This is not a difference of $1300 down by the lake vs $1700 here, this is $1300 for a detached house by the lake with a front, back and side yard vs $1700- $2400 for a fully attached Townhome far and away from downtown, with no lawn. That's more than wanting to pay for maintenance of past tenants, that's just taking advantage.

Also, if you want to rent out one room in a house, its usually around $600. Atleast, from September to April it is. In August its usually about $300.

 

[Rob King]

I woke up at 4:30 and haven't been able to sleep anymore, thinking about how my life just is passive time flowing, from meal to meal, with a computer mouse in one hand and a glass of coca-cola in the other. I never do anything, I never go anywhere, I have great trouble with time and space, I don't know how much money I have, I need or I spend (I spend as little as possible because of this). I get tired easily, not only because of my bad leg, but because I'm in bad shape in general. I don't like meeting new people, or doing new things. I've never had to work for money, and I've never worked for anything. I lack a purpose, be it for survival, for personal ambition or for altruistic reasons.
I'm trapped in myself, and I hate me because of this.

And that isn't nice.

I'm both exactly the opposite, and completely the same.

I love meeting people, and going out on adventures and whatnot. I make a point of talking to strangers, I'm always on the lookout for new shit to do, and I've got about ten different things which may or may not happen planned for this summer, including camping, building a trebuchet, and traveling to St. Pierre (An overseas dependancy of France) for Bastile Day.

Problem is, I'm horrible with money. To be fair to myself, I make a pittance. Between my two jobs I only work about twenty hours a week. I can only afford to live because the house I'm living in has absurdly cheap rent. I've been meaning to find another job for months now, but I can never motivate myself to go do it. I spend a huge chunk of my time writing, too, but I'm never satisfied with any of it, so nothing ever comes of that.

I dream of running off for adventure somewhere. Either volunteering, or looking for paid work, there are so many places I could be right now with my TESL certificate. But I have so much trouble just going for it. Last new years, I decided that 2010 would be the year I disappeared into the wider world. The original plan was to leave in May, but those plans fell through. Then September, but now my brother is moving here and I want to stick around for at least a few months for his sake. It also doesn't help my escape plan that now I have a girlfriend here, too.

For whatever reason, I'm trapped too. I think for me it comes down to a fear of failure, and fear of losing the relationships I have now. But I'm not quite fulfilled here, so I'm having trouble deciding what exactly it is that's preventing me from just going.

 

[Vytamindi]

Fuck. I can't sleep. My cheap boxspring has been broken for almost a year now, and I think it's getting worse because a muscle in my left leg falls asleep any time I'm not lying on my left side. Back and tummy aren't good options either. So, I move my ass to the couch.

...well, I figured out where that cat piss smell is coming from, so i can't sleep there either...

Top that off with the past few days having stomach problems...fml