Rant VIII: The Reckoning

ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Just got back from the vet because Diomedes throws up every time he goes #2 in the litter box (which is also messier than usual). Another $200 later, including an x-ray and meds, and I just don't fucking know what to do. I can't afford this. I just got put on fucking income assistant. I had to put everything on my credit card and God fucking knows when I'll be able to pay it all off.

I had a breakdown on the way home because I knew - I FUCKING KNEW - Dad would be on my case about this. Because one a banker, always a banker, only seeing dollar signs, just like that's all he sees when he looks at his own goddamn son. And sure enough, as soon as I walked in the door, he was on me about it because he's a nosy fucking bastard who can't keep his nose out of anything. He doesn't care that Diomedes is the one true friend I've had in 13 years. The one constant in my life while I went through Hell.
 
Denbrought

Denbrought

ThatNickGuy said:
Just got back from the vet because Diomedes throws up every time he goes #2 in the litter box (which is also messier than usual). Another $200 later, including an x-ray and meds, and I just don't fucking know what to do. I can't afford this. I just got put on fucking income assistant. I had to put everything on my credit card and God fucking knows when I'll be able to pay it all off.

I had a breakdown on the way home because I knew - I FUCKING KNEW - Dad would be on my case about this. Because one a banker, always a banker, only seeing dollar signs, just like that's all he sees when he looks at his own goddamn son. And sure enough, as soon as I walked in the door, he was on me about it because he's a nosy fucking bastard who can't keep his nose out of anything. He doesn't care that Diomedes is the one true friend I've had in 13 years. The one constant in my life while I went through Hell.
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Have you thought about asking for help here/Facebook? I know it can make one feel shitty, but if your cat is your life-long friend, he's probably worth posting your PayPal/GoFundMe.
 
Emrys

Emrys

As would I. My cat Merlin was the only thing keeping me alive at one point. Let me know how to get the money to you and I will.
 
IronBrig4

IronBrig4

I have a friend who has a cat that's not eating. This cat's name is Marble and she's a sweet but quiet cat. My friend and her husband got three playful and energetic kittens to add to the mix. Marble got stressed out and just wouldn't eat anymore. If she did it, she puked it up immediately afterward. They're feeding her via syringe now and it seems to be working. Have you noticed any stressors in the environment that might cause Diomedes to behave like he has been?
 
strawman

strawman

Diomedes is around 12-13 years old now, isn't he Nick (a post you made in 2010 indicated you'd had him for six years by that time)? And you've posted several times in this forum about times you've taken him to the vet. He's pulled through every time, but he's now an older cat, and at the early end of feline life expectancy(12-18).

I don't know what to say. I hope he recovers soon, and I hope he lives many years more, but I think you might have to start reminding yourself he's an old friend, and prepare yourself. Whether it's his time this year (perish the thought!) or six years from now, he's now well past middle age.

I'm not trying to bring you down further, I know it's painful to even consider, and you can never really prepare for the worst case scenario, but I really think you and diomedes will be better off if you start thinking of him as and treating him as an older cat.

I'm sorry you and diomedes have to suffer through this, and I hope he recovers quickly.
 
Eriol

Eriol

This is worth a REAL rant, but here it is: MEPs vote on robots' legal status - and if a kill switch is required

WTF is wrong with you people????? Asimov's Laws were a PLOT DEVICE!!!! They are NOT meant to be actually implemented!!! This is a fundamental disconnect with "pop culture" ideas around robots, AI, etc. You fucking morons. The result of (pretty much) every story involving said laws is how BAD it is for humanity to put those laws in the robots in the first place!

And then think of the horrors of what you're inflicting on another level: what if you succeed? You've created fully self-aware beings. Awesome. Now we're going to officially enslave them. Da fuck? How do you think this is a good idea? On what level? Something that is sub-sentient like a pet we treat in certain ways, with less rights, but still some. We get to the level of fully-sentient, and possibly even smarter than us, and our instinct is to enslave it? Has nobody seen the episode "The Measure of a Man" yet? It's on Netflix. Go watch Whoopi Goldberg give one of her most nuanced performances. Then come back and feel shame. You deserve shame for putting out such a piece of trash.

Because I'm sure that trying to enslave sentient machines will turn out just awesome for humanity.


Bunch of fucking morons making that report.
 
Gruebeard

Gruebeard

Eriol said:
WTF is wrong with you people????? Asimov's Laws were a PLOT DEVICE!!!! They are NOT meant to be actually implemented!!! This is a fundamental disconnect with "pop culture" ideas around robots, AI, etc. You fucking morons. The result of (pretty much) every story involving said laws is how BAD it is for humanity to put those laws in the robots in the first place!
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That was never the result of an Asimov robot story. Indeed, those laws, and Daneel R Olivaw's telepathic positonic brain, were instrumental in saving Humanity from thousands of years of savagery in the wake of the Galactic Empire's collapse.

/geekout
 
Eriol

Eriol

Gruebeard said:
That was never the result of an Asimov robot story. Indeed, those laws, and Daneel R Olivaw's telepathic positonic brain, were instrumental in saving Humanity from thousands of years of savagery in the wake of the Galactic Empire's collapse.

/geekout
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I'd say the events here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evitable_Conflict would argue against it, but other examples from the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics page would argue in my favor.

Either way, I still think enslaving basically a race is a really really bad idea for many reasons, and the 3 laws are only one of them.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

As I see it, Asimov's laws were a good-faith attempt to simplify the code by which robots would abide.
And then subsequent Sci-Fi did its best to rules-lawyer those laws in an attempt to criticize/troll them.

--Patrick
 
Eriol

Eriol

PatrThom said:
As I see it, Asimov's laws were a good-faith attempt to simplify the code by which robots would abide.
And then subsequent Sci-Fi did its best to rules-lawyer those laws in an attempt to criticize/troll them.
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I just think it's a bad idea long-term to say to a sentient being who just woke up "oh btw, you're a slave forever." That just won't end well. Even if we try and make them "happy" to be our slaves, it just still seems like something seriously ethically wrong there.

Just my opinion on the matter. Luckily, we (probably) have some time before it's an issue.
 
GasBandit

GasBandit

Staff member
Eriol said:
I just think it's a bad idea long-term to say to a sentient being who just woke up "oh btw, you're a slave forever." That just won't end well. Even if we try and make them "happy" to be our slaves, it just still seems like something seriously ethically wrong there.

Just my opinion on the matter. Luckily, we (probably) have some time before it's an issue.
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The last thing I want is my sex robot becoming unhappy with its lot in life.
 
sixpackshaker

sixpackshaker

Eriol said:
I just think it's a bad idea long-term to say to a sentient being who just woke up "oh btw, you're a slave forever." That just won't end well. Even if we try and make them "happy" to be our slaves, it just still seems like something seriously ethically wrong there.

Just my opinion on the matter. Luckily, we (probably) have some time before it's an issue.
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I guess you must play the Railroad in Fallout 4...[DOUBLEPOST=1484259658,1484259625][/DOUBLEPOST]
GasBandit said:
The last thing I want is my sex robot becoming unhappy with its lot in life.
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It is bad enough when a stripper cries...
 
Gruebeard

Gruebeard

Eriol said:
I'd say the events here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evitable_Conflict would argue against it, but other examples from the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics page would argue in my favor.

Either way, I still think enslaving basically a race is a really really bad idea for many reasons, and the 3 laws are only one of them.
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I get the impression you've not read many, if any, of Asimov's robot stories.

In the vast majority of his stories, his 3 laws were programmed into machines that mimicked intelligence but had no sentience or ability to exceed their programming. Indeed, many of the stories were just cozy mysteries, a robotics expert or a pair of programmers debug some little programming error that causes the machine to malfunction.
 
Eriol

Eriol

Gruebeard said:
I get the impression you've not read many, if any, of Asimov's robot stories.

In the vast majority of his stories, his 3 laws were programmed into machines that mimicked intelligence but had no sentience or ability to exceed their programming. Indeed, many of the stories were just cozy mysteries, a robotics expert or a pair of programmers debug some little programming error that causes the machine to malfunction.
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You're right. I've read his Foundation series, and a short story (besides those I mean) here and there, but I think I've only read one of his robot-centered stories in some other anthology. I've read more of some of the other "classic scifi authors" (Philip K. Dick for example).

That makes my knowledge of the 3 laws inferior, but either way it's still a bad idea IMO.
 
Bones

Bones

Eriol said:
You're right. I've read his Foundation series, and a short story (besides those I mean) here and there, but I think I've only read one of his robot-centered stories in some other anthology. I've read more of some of the other "classic scifi authors" (Philip K. Dick for example).

That makes my knowledge of the 3 laws inferior, but either way it's still a bad idea IMO.
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i always read it as its likely that the first network level AI will go one of two ways, either treat us as pests to be eradicated or like we treat our pets that we need to be protected and basically do everything it can to keep us happy and healthy.
 
Sara_2814

Sara_2814

Communications of the ACM actually has an article this month on Artificial Intelligence and the issues of job replacement and ZOMG TEH ROBOTS WILL KILL US ALL.

The dominant public narrative about artificial intelligence is that we are building increasingly intelligent machines that will ultimately surpass human capabilities, steal our jobs, possibly even escape human control and kill us all. This misguided perception, not widely shared by AI researchers, runs a significant risk of delaying or derailing practical applications and influencing public policy in counterproductive ways. A more appropriate framing—better supported by historical progress and current developments—is that AI is simply a natural continuation of longstanding efforts to automate tasks, dating back at least to the start of the industrial revolution. Stripping the field of its gee-whiz apocalyptic gloss makes it easier to evaluate the likely benefits and pitfalls of this important technology, not to mention dampen the self-destructive cycles of hype and disappointment that have plagued the field since its inception.
At the core of this problem is the tendency for respected public figures outside the field, and even a few within the field, to tolerate or sanction overblown press reports that herald each advance as startling and unexpected leaps toward general human-level intelligence (or beyond), fanning fears that "the robots" are coming to take over the world. Headlines often tout noteworthy engineering accomplishments in a context suggesting they constitute unwelcome assaults on human uniqueness and supremacy. If computers can trade stocks and drive cars, will they soon outperform our best sales people, replace court judges, win Oscars and Grammys, buy up and develop prime parcels of real estate for their own purposes? And what will "they" think of "us"?
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The next paragraph (from behind the paywall) continues:

The plain fact is there is no "they". This is an anthropomorphic conceit borne of endless Hollywood blockbusters, reinforced by the gratuitous inclusion of human-like features in public AI technology demonstrations, such as natural-sounding voices, facial expressions, and simulated displays of human emotions. Each of these techniques has valuable application in human-computer interfaces, but not when their primary effect is to fool or mislead. Attempts to dress up significant AI accomplishments with humanoid flourishes does the field a disservice by raising inappropriate questions and implying there is more there than meets the eye. Was IBM's Watson pleased with its "Jeopardy!" win? It sure looked like it. This made for great television, but it also encouraged the audience to over-interpret the actual significance of this important achievement. Machines don't have minds, and there is precious little evidence to suggest they ever will.
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It also goes into AI taking jobs (which is an actual threat of AI if it happens too quickly for people to adapt). It's a really good article, so if you're interested in the topic and have access to a CACM subscription (your local university library may have a paper version freely available), I highly recommend it.

Coming next month, the CACM will have articles on "Smart Machines Are Not A Threat to Humanity" and "AI Dangers: Imagined and Real".
 
Squidleybits

Squidleybits

Apparently, it IS too much to ask that I be acknowledged when I speak.

I have raised two surly, spoiled brats. Thank god they each have separate sleepovers tonight that are not at our house.
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

*sigh* Maybe I'll give up on writing after all. Nothing I write in this new revision of the YA novel works. I hate it. It feels forced and unnatural. Worse, there's a MAJOR aspect of the previous version that I don't know what to do with anymore. Or if I should include it at all. Which throws everything else out of order to the point that I don't fucking know what to do anymore.

No point writing Dill anymore, either, since I make jack shit for money in sales on that. No point in writing at all anymore.
 
Dei

Dei

ThatNickGuy said:
*sigh* Maybe I'll give up on writing after all. Nothing I write in this new revision of the YA novel works. I hate it. It feels forced and unnatural. Worse, there's a MAJOR aspect of the previous version that I don't know what to do with anymore. Or if I should include it at all. Which throws everything else out of order to the point that I don't fucking know what to do anymore.

No point writing Dill anymore, either, since I make jack shit for money in sales on that. No point in writing at all anymore.
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I'm pretty sure even highly paid writers go through this stage when they write anything. You'll figure it out.
 
Sparhawk

Sparhawk

ThatNickGuy said:
*sigh* Maybe I'll give up on writing after all. Nothing I write in this new revision of the YA novel works. I hate it. It feels forced and unnatural. Worse, there's a MAJOR aspect of the previous version that I don't know what to do with anymore. Or if I should include it at all. Which throws everything else out of order to the point that I don't fucking know what to do anymore.

No point writing Dill anymore, either, since I make jack shit for money in sales on that. No point in writing at all anymore.
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Set it aside and write something else. Anything else. Keep the writing up, let the stuff percolate, let other writings lead you back to where you need to go. I have read about many different authors, they hit roadblocks or just stall out, so they set that one aside and write on something else. Write down those ideas that you get, those other story ideas that aren't necessarily Dill or the YA story, might be something there that sparks you in a different direction or even open that path toward what you are looking for in another story.
 
PatrThom

PatrThom

Yeah.
Stop working on punches for a while, maybe focus on kicks. That way when you go back to punches again, maybe something new will occur to you.

--Patrick
 
ThatNickGuy

ThatNickGuy

Sparhawk said:
Set it aside and write something else. Anything else. Keep the writing up, let the stuff percolate, let other writings lead you back to where you need to go. I have read about many different authors, they hit roadblocks or just stall out, so they set that one aside and write on something else. Write down those ideas that you get, those other story ideas that aren't necessarily Dill or the YA story, might be something there that sparks you in a different direction or even open that path toward what you are looking for in another story.
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I don't have any other ideas to write right now. None that are fully formed to write, anyway, or that I even feel like writing.
 
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