Ehhhh, there's conflicting information on that. A quick websearch for stats seems to suggest that mass shootings are happening more often, not less.
*sighs, turns over "DAYS SINCE LAST MASS SHOOTING IN AMERICA" sign to 0*
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
- Start date
GasBandit
Staff member
It depends on what your date window is for comparison, as I've posted earlier in this very thread.
GasBandit
Staff member
In fact, exactly 1 page ago, Tinwhistler posted about it, more recently than me. From his post:
The number of incidents is more or less level since the 70s, but if your frame of reference starts at the 90s, all of a sudden there does seem to be an increasing trend since 2000 or so. The plain fact of the matter is that the 90s had a remarkably low crime rate overall, compared to both before and after it.
GasBandit
Staff member
True enough, there's a lot of kibitzing over what constitutes a "mass" shooting, exactly. 3 people? 4? more? Number dead, or wounded/both?
Anyway...
The more I read about San Bernardino, the more it looks carefully planned and executed, not a spur-of-the-moment thing. Three guys, equipped with rifles, wearing ski masks and tactical vests. They burst into a heavily trafficked building, start shooting, plant a bomb, then quickly escape in a black SUV. They didn't stick around to engage law enforcement, they didn't issue a statement, there's no obvious political angle, and nobody is claiming responsibility. It seems unlikely (or at least uncommon) that someone wanting to kill a certain person specifically would enlist the help of 2 other people, so it seems more likely the location was the target rather than any specific person there? But whatever it turns out to be, this is clearly not a crime of passion or insanity. This was a calculated act of malevolence.
Sorry, that's what got my pedant-sense tingling, not your date window.
)
If there was ever any doubt that Hillary was the establishment candidate...
GasBandit
Staff member
There's a teensy bit more to it than that. It didn't "just happen" to be there.
Two of the suspects died later in a gun battle with police. These two suspects were a Syed Farook and his wife, both muslims, who left their child with a relative then shot up the christmas party for Farook's employers (the county health dept) that they were having in a rented conference room at the center.
Might it be starting to quack enough like a duck? Maybe they were going for someone in particular, but the timing and circumstance sure are oddly coincidental.
Also apparently the number of suspected (and destroyed) explosive devices is now 3.
Two of the suspects died later in a gun battle with police. These two suspects were a Syed Farook and his wife, both muslims, who left their child with a relative then shot up the christmas party for Farook's employers (the county health dept) that they were having in a rented conference room at the center.
Might it be starting to quack enough like a duck? Maybe they were going for someone in particular, but the timing and circumstance sure are oddly coincidental.
Also apparently the number of suspected (and destroyed) explosive devices is now 3.
GasBandit
Staff member
TMZ (not the most reputable of sources I'll grant you) is saying an anonymous source in the police dept is telling them that apparently Farook was attending the party, and there was some kind of heated disagreement, and either he was kicked out or stormed out. The nature of that conflict isn't known. So that lends creedence to the "workplace violence/gunning for someone in particular" angle... but there was a whole lot of preparation that went into this, which also points to premeditation, which makes me think the place and time was not a coincidence.
Dave
Staff member
It's almost like the guy went to the holiday party knowing he was going to start shit. Like he was going to confront someone about something (denied promotion, denied raise, racist comments, stapler missing, etc.) and knew what the outcome was going to be. It is both a premeditated act and a workplace shooting. The two are not mutually exclusive.
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, apparently I was being too subtle. I was not saying a workplace shooting couldn't be premeditated, I was saying that it might not be coincidence that he chose the office christmas party as the time and place for his moment of dirka dirka mohommad jihad.
you're really an [redacted], aren't you
Last edited by a moderator:
I have to say, to me at least, this really has 0 hallmarks of Islamic terrorism and 100% of the characteristics of someone deliberately going to kill their boss and colleagues. Perhaps because Farook felt discriminated or put up on or whatever because of his faith but that otherwise seems to have absolutely no bearing on it.
GasBandit
Staff member
I think the Jihadi-or-not discussion probably needs to be tabled until the police investigate more. This could completely be a case of it, but there's no publicly-known hallmarks of it yet (jihadist rantings online, screaming God is Great while killing people, known radical connections, etc.)
The simplest solution is that he choose it because he knew most of the office would be at the party and could thus get as many as he could. That it was a Christmas party might be irrelevant. We won't know unless they have a manifesto or something.
GasBandit
Staff member
Might be. Still very notable coincidence.
...He's Muslim, and he shot a bunch of people? If that's all that counts, we've had a lot of "terrorist attacks" already. A work shooting or a family murder-suicide or stuff is the same no matter who does it.
Too late for that. Waaaaaaay too late. Fox Noise was in full fearmongering mode this morning.
GasBandit
Staff member
You guys sure are bending yourselves into pretzels not to talk about the elephant in the room. The primary motivation may have been to get back at his boss or whatever, but it sure smells that doing it at the christmas party was the icing on the baklava.
This sort of rampant PC pretense is why Trump's poll numbers keep going up no matter how many mexicans he calls rapists.
Dave
Staff member
If it was workplace motivated, then his religion does not matter. Like at all. And to bring it into the picture at this point is premature and wrong on several levels. And they specifically called it a "Holiday" party, not a Christmas party. They were being inclusive.
Of course, if it ends up being religiously motivated...oy vey.
Of course, if it ends up being religiously motivated...oy vey.
I'd hardly call it bending myself into pretzels. I'm just not going to jump onto a bandwagon when the Christmas party connection and their faith and ethnicity are literally the only things that suggest this might be religiously motivated. Like I said, the Christmas party has factors in and of itself that make it a good target. It's the obvious time to attack if you want a body count and if you work there, you have a good idea who is going to be there. It's really just the perfect time.
That said, I'm not going to guess at motivations ether. There is still a guy out there on the run (last I heard anyway) and it's not like we've found a manifesto yet or safe house full of terrorism related stuff like training manuals and such. I'd rather wait until we break this guy and hear what he thought it was about or until we find some actual evidence saying why they did it.
Fox News has spent all morning calling the couple's house a "bomb factory." (I wasn't watching by choice.
)His poll numbers are going up because there's a lot of Americans out there who actually think all his generalizations about minorities are real and are ecstatic to find a GOP candidate saying what they've always thought.
If this guy is a radical, he's a radical. He and his wife killing folks may still be completely unrelated.
Dave
Staff member
That actually makes a lot of sense considering how much stuff they left behind. They were planning something but then he blew a gasket here.
