I think people are still trying to figure out what the story actually is. It does seem to have elements of Islamic terrorism to it, which is different from the other mass shootings we've had over the last couple weeks. But it also has elements of workplace violence / disgruntled employee. I hate that this gives some justification to the xenophobia that's been so prominently on display, but I can't deny that it does seem to follow almost exactly what people have been trying to make us afraid of, so maybe they have a point.
*sighs, turns over "DAYS SINCE LAST MASS SHOOTING IN AMERICA" sign to 0*
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
- Start date
I think the ordinariness of this is hitting people kind of hard... like, this could have happened to anyone just because someone they know treated someone else like shit. The religious stuff can be explained, it's got "narrative" but the idea that they might be punished with bullets for being an asshole or just tolerating the asshole behavior of others scares the crap out of people. It's actually more comforting to some people that they could die as a random act of an extremist than that they might might be part of what caused it.
It is one thing to be attentive to the dangers of people who follow radical Islam. It is reasonable to assume in this day and age that an act of terrorism committed by a Muslim person could have links to terrorism and needs to be investigated as such.
It is something else entirely to automatically assume that it is always the case, or that every Muslim not actively denying it is an Daesh member.
We (as a society overall) give white mass murderers the benefit of the doubt before ascribing motives to them, and I still haven't seen any major personal figures call for the deportation or internment of Christians. Or even white supremacists after Dylan Roof.
People (even someone here) were assigning the narrative they wanted to it while it was still happening/breaking. As the details come out the story gets more and more quiet.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/0...ate.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.com/
That sounds ideal, no?
Well, no, not really. Not because we need MOAR SHOOTINGS HYPE but because if the story goes completely dark before it finishes, then the evidence/story that this was just the act of a handful of people (and not at the behest of the Nation of Islam) won't get told.
And that would mean lotsa people would go on believing it was, and that'll fester.
--Patrick
It does not, you are quite correct.
However, it does make a difference to the people looking for credible evidence to refute those claims.
--Patrick
Not sure if intentional or not....Nation of Islam =/= Islamic State.
It was intentional, but really I could've used the name of any supposed boogeyman group.
--Patrick
Today's first mass shooting is in Downtown LA at a hotel. 1 dead, 3 wounded, according to reports.
http://www.missopen.com/news/1-dead-3-injured-following-shooting-at-hotel-in-los-angeles/
http://ktla.com/2015/12/13/1-dead-in-quadruple-shooting-at-standard-hotel-in-downtown-l-a-police/
The shooting took place about 2:40 a.m. at the upscale property in the 500 block of South Flower Street, according to the Los Angeles Police Department. Police initially said three people were shot.
Officers responded after receiving a call regarding a fight in front of the hotel, said LAPD Capt. Donald Graham. The report was “upgraded to ‘shots fired,'” he said.
Two of the victims were found at the scene, and another was located about 10 blocks away at the intersection of West Olympic Boulevard and South Hill Street, a spokesman for the LAPD’s Central Division said. It was unclear where the fourth victim was discovered.
Witnesses said at least two of the people who were shot were guests at the hotel; the Police Department could not confirm that information.
No one was in custody in connection with the incident. A description of the shooter or shooters was not immediately available.
Shattered glass, bloody clothing and shell casings were seen at one of the entrances to the hotel.
Homicide investigators were interviewing witnesses and reviewing surveillance video at the location, Graham said.
http://www.missopen.com/news/1-dead-3-injured-following-shooting-at-hotel-in-los-angeles/
http://ktla.com/2015/12/13/1-dead-in-quadruple-shooting-at-standard-hotel-in-downtown-l-a-police/
The shooting took place about 2:40 a.m. at the upscale property in the 500 block of South Flower Street, according to the Los Angeles Police Department. Police initially said three people were shot.
Officers responded after receiving a call regarding a fight in front of the hotel, said LAPD Capt. Donald Graham. The report was “upgraded to ‘shots fired,'” he said.
Two of the victims were found at the scene, and another was located about 10 blocks away at the intersection of West Olympic Boulevard and South Hill Street, a spokesman for the LAPD’s Central Division said. It was unclear where the fourth victim was discovered.
Witnesses said at least two of the people who were shot were guests at the hotel; the Police Department could not confirm that information.
No one was in custody in connection with the incident. A description of the shooter or shooters was not immediately available.
Shattered glass, bloody clothing and shell casings were seen at one of the entrances to the hotel.
Homicide investigators were interviewing witnesses and reviewing surveillance video at the location, Graham said.
GasBandit
Staff member
Same goes for knives, cars, you name it, people hurt themselves with it.
Knives and cars are used much, much more often for non-defensive, non-fighting purposes, though. I mean, yes, you can use a gun for hunting, but that's about it. Knives and cars are used daily by hundreds of millions of people. The amount of people using a knife for self defense (let alone a car) are comparatively small, while the amount of people using a gun defensively is, at least according to the NRA, huge (it isn't, but still).
Where would I fall in, then, as someone who owns several guns and enjoys using them, but has never been hunting nor ever shot anyone or anything living?
You really need to work on your aim.
My dad hunted as early as 12. He use to hunt rabbits/birds/squirrels in the woods of Ohio. Then one day, he shot a squirrel and he discovered it wasn't quite killed. He cradled it and it died in his arms. He never touched a gun again for another 35 or so years until airlines started training their pilots in firearm use.
GasBandit
Staff member
But if the point is "Oh, so many people accidentally hurt themselves with guns, more than one of their possible intended uses," then it should be pointed out that everything works that way. The number of deaths from accidents in cars dwarfs all gun deaths. It's not even remotely close.
I've shot a lot of rifle and gun bullets at paper targets, but never at a person or animal. I'd love to go deer hunting, but I have no friends that do it, and it seems strange/problematic to try to do it on your own.
Hunting is surprisingly easy...if you're patient. I was always more worried about what I was going to do if I actually bagged an animal since I'd never field dressed anything (and still haven't, really).
More on topic, it looks like the co-creator of Debian is dead under "suspicious circumstances" after posting the attached series of tweets:
EDIT: Dangit, I meant to put this in the Police/Beating/Gassing thread.
--Patrick
Last edited:
http://saskatoon.ctvnews.ca/four-killed-in-la-loche-shooting-rcmp-1.2748362
Corrected to 4. RCMP says 5 was a mis-communication early on.
The really freaky thing to me here is that I live in a town just a little bit bigger than the one where this happened. I can only imagine the reaction here.
A really horrifying story about the community's history of suicide and mental illness: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...nt-help-but-wonder-if-its-yet-another-suicide
Seems like a dreadfully troubled town.
It's a reservation - being to a number of them in my life, this is a pretty standard expectation of them. Not to paint a completely bleak picture of them, there are good folks around. It's just sad that there are a great number of hopelessly lost people and utter shitlords as well.
Welfare, government handouts, and treaty money owed to them. While I don't know for certain about that particular reserve, I'd be willing to bet that there is under the table jobs; some legal but including prostitution and drug dealing.
I forgot to mention this, not all reservation members eke out an existence by holding employment. Many of them do still try to live on traditional means by hunting, fishing, trapping, and living off the land in whatever way they can.
I forgot to mention this, not all reservation members eke out an existence by holding employment. Many of them do still try to live on traditional means by hunting, fishing, trapping, and living off the land in whatever way they can.
Prostitution is HUGE on tribal lands, with some tribes better about managing (or stamping it out) than others.
Sounds like someone is just driving around Kalamazoo, killing people randomly. I know we have Michigan forumites but I don't remember where they're from. Hope everyone is staying safe.
http://breaking911.com/kalamazoo-co...igan-shooting-cracker-barrel-ford-dealership/
http://breaking911.com/kalamazoo-co...igan-shooting-cracker-barrel-ford-dealership/