Speak English Motherfucker!

[North_Ranger]

Fun Facts about North_Ranger:

As some of you may know, I recently spent a year abroad, studying in Ireland. Appearance-wise I was (and am) fat, 6 feet tall, with curly blond hair and a thick, rust-red beard. Plus glasses. An American friend I was in regular contact with on Skype told me I had started to sound a little British. While when I asked, just for fun, Irish people I came in contact with, where they thought I came from after a small chat, nine out of ten said I sounded like I was from the States. One thought I was Dutch.

Go figure.

-- Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:22 am --

...what else would you speak, Gaelic?

sheesh

Tá me dreathair amhain agus dreachair amhain. Fhionn ar mo gruaig.

 

[Calleja]

pog mo thuin!!

or however you spell it aranoid:

 

[Mr_Chaz]

Fun Facts about North_Ranger:

As some of you may know, I recently spent a year abroad, studying in Ireland. Appearance-wise I was (and am) fat, 6 feet tall, with curly blond hair and a thick, rust-red beard. Plus glasses. An American friend I was in regular contact with on Skype told me I had started to sound a little British. While when I asked, just for fun, Irish people I came in contact with, where they thought I came from after a small chat, nine out of ten said I sounded like I was from the States. One thought I was Dutch.

Go figure.

Interestingly I had a Finnish friend while I was at uni, and we all assumed she was American at first. The trouble was that the greatest exposure she'd had to English before coming to uni was from watching Friends, she'd obviously learnt English at school, but it sounded like she'd practised it in front of the TV, it was very strange.

 

[North_Ranger]

[quote="North_Ranger":187ox25e]Fun Facts about North_Ranger:

As some of you may know, I recently spent a year abroad, studying in Ireland. Appearance-wise I was (and am) fat, 6 feet tall, with curly blond hair and a thick, rust-red beard. Plus glasses. An American friend I was in regular contact with on Skype told me I had started to sound a little British. While when I asked, just for fun, Irish people I came in contact with, where they thought I came from after a small chat, nine out of ten said I sounded like I was from the States. One thought I was Dutch.

Go figure.

Interestingly I had a Finnish friend while I was at uni, and we all assumed she was American at first. The trouble was that the greatest exposure she'd had to English before coming to uni was from watching Friends, she'd obviously learnt English at school, but it sounded like she'd practised it in front of the TV, it was very strange.[/quote:187ox25e]

Well, for most Finns it either the American TV shows (or the rare British comedy series) - or Mika Häkkinen:

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRIq3UhoB-M:187ox25e][/youtube:187ox25e]

 

[Math242]

Eh. I can point out the neighbourhoods in Brussels where the French and Dutch street name signs have been replaced with (obivously illegal) ones in Arabic; and where sales posters and price tags are all unilingual. Come back when Spanish is written in an alphabet you don't recognise :-P

we're being fucking invaded...

i'm not gonna talk about the language problem in Belgium tho. not gonna happen

 

[Mr_Chaz]

[quote="Mr_Chaz":g81ge6a9][quote="North_Ranger":g81ge6a9]Fun Facts about North_Ranger:

As some of you may know, I recently spent a year abroad, studying in Ireland. Appearance-wise I was (and am) fat, 6 feet tall, with curly blond hair and a thick, rust-red beard. Plus glasses. An American friend I was in regular contact with on Skype told me I had started to sound a little British. While when I asked, just for fun, Irish people I came in contact with, where they thought I came from after a small chat, nine out of ten said I sounded like I was from the States. One thought I was Dutch.

Go figure.

Interestingly I had a Finnish friend while I was at uni, and we all assumed she was American at first. The trouble was that the greatest exposure she'd had to English before coming to uni was from watching Friends, she'd obviously learnt English at school, but it sounded like she'd practised it in front of the TV, it was very strange.[/quote:g81ge6a9]

Well, for most Finns it either the American TV shows (or the rare British comedy series) - or Mika Häkkinen:

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRIq3UhoB-M:g81ge6a9][/youtube:g81ge6a9][/quote:g81ge6a9]


I miss Mika, he was always good fun to watch.

 

[North_Ranger]

I miss Mika, he was always good fun to watch.

I don't... but that's mostly because Finns hate to be laughed at by anyone but themselves. Silvio Berlusconi never made any friends here...

 

[Mr_Chaz]

[quote="Mr_Chaz":2ucxs2c9]I miss Mika, he was always good fun to watch.

I don't... but that's mostly because Finns hate to be laughed at by anyone but themselves. Silvio Berlusconi never made any friends here...[/quote:2ucxs2c9]

You see, I don't think I ever laughed at him, I only thought he came across as a nice guy who was just kinda frustrated by the inane questions people would ask. And it was a joy to watch him drive, and a genuine pain when something went wrong for him, he always seemed so honest.

 

[Anubinomicon]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

the point of the sign is that to keep business moving in an orderly fashion you should ask for your food in a language the cook understands. end of story, glad he won.

 

[sixpackshaker]

It seems extremely short sighted to not serve half of your customer base in a language that they do not understand. If you are on the edge of a predominately Spanish speaking neighborhood, you should accommodate your clientele.

They will be swallowed up by the expanding Spanish speaking demographic in 10 years. Then the sign will read "Hablemos Espanol"

Soon we will have a Balkanized nation divided over language.

 

[Norris]

It seems extremely short sighted to not serve half of your customer base in a language that they do not understand. If you are on the edge of a predominately Spanish speaking neighborhood, you should accommodate your clientele.

Or, you know, Spanish speakers could bother trying to learn the language that most of the books, movies, television shows, stage productions, music, educational programs (both public and private), business, and politics are written/conducted in. Especially if you have CHOSEN to live here.

If I even took a vacation someplace else in the world without learning how to get around using that country's language, I'd be the "Ugly American" stereotype. People come and live here for years without bothering to learn passable english, and it's the english speakers being intolerant. Fuck that. I've encountered innumerable people at work (I'm a cart wrangler at Target) who spoke broken english. It was hard to understand most of them. But I understood them, and have to date always been able to help them find what they were looking for (or get them someone who could). But if someone walked up to me speaking in Hindi or Arabic (I live in Michigan), it'd be over. I would not be able to understand them, nor would any other employee that I am aware of. And we're not the ones in the wrong.

 

[sixpackshaker]

Sounds like Target in Michigan should stop their discriminatory hiring practices and get some Indians and Arabs on the workforce.

 

[rabbitgod]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

the point of the sign is that to keep business moving in an orderly fashion you should ask for your food in a language the cook understands. end of story, glad he won.

But what happens when the cook speaks Spanish?

Or better yet, what happens when you go to my favorite Vietnamese restaurant...where the cook speaks Spanish.

Or better yet, what happens when you go to this little cart a few miles from my house where a Chinese/Mexican-American serves Chinese/Mexican-American food, but he speaks English so yeah.

I agree with most of the sentiment in this thread. I think people should be able to conduct business in any way they please as long as it's not outwardly discriminatory. If you want English only orders then ok. If you have 15 language options on your customer service line then ok. If you want to accept Mexican Pesos at your pizzaria then ok.

If immigrants of any kind have trouble with that then nuts to them. Learning the language gives you power, it makes you more successful, gives your family a future. Let's use Chaz as an example, or even me (French as a first language for my mother despite being several generations born in the US.) Because our ancestors took the time to learn they put themselves in a position to have children that went to college.

And at the same time we should give a break to those who don't know the language. While many have been here for 20 years and don't speak the language, there are many who just moved and are scared of messing up the language or coming off as ungrateful. Patience and encouragement work wonders here.

 

[Norris]

Sounds like Target in Michigan should stop their discriminatory hiring practices and get some Indians and Arabs on the workforce.

You'd be right...except for the fact that most of these immigrants are older folks who HAVE jobs. Target doesn't discriminate. My Target is, however, at the border of three WASPy suburbs and located on the major road that is a straight shot into Detroit proper...at the same place there you can get on and off the highway. We get folks from a fairly large geographic area shopping there....but mostly folks from the immediate four areas working there. It's a matter of local geography, not racial standards.

 

[CynicismKills]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

the point of the sign is that to keep business moving in an orderly fashion you should ask for your food in a language the cook understands. end of story, glad he won.

When the line can go for longer than the building, yeah, I figure this is the reason for the sign moreso than anything else.

 

[North_Ranger]

I actually wrote a paper on this subject - it was for a course discussing the politics of language in various English-speaking countries. The sources I read mentioned something called "English Plus", a lobby group who wanted to promote the use of English - plus at least one other foreign/enclave language (e.g. various Native American languages). While it is expected to keep a somewhat neutral viewpoint in the paper, I personally found the idea quite compelling. You get the other-than-English-speakers to learn English without antagonizing them, while at the same time you propose that the English-speakers learn another language as well.

But then again, I'm a Finn, it's late and I don't feel like digging out that paper in the middle of the night. I'll just keep cursing about those damn "coastal Swedes" who celebrate "Day of Swedishness" and refuse to learn Finnish. Snacka finska, morknullare! :tongue:

 

[Bubble181]

Eh. I can point out the neighbourhoods in Brussels where the French and Dutch street name signs have been replaced with (obivously illegal) ones in Arabic; and where sales posters and price tags are all unilingual. Come back when Spanish is written in an alphabet you don't recognise :-P

we're being fucking invaded...

i'm not gonna talk about the language problem in Belgium tho. not gonna happen

It'd only end in bloodshed :-P

 

[Terrik]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

If I even took a vacation someplace else in the world without learning how to get around using that country's language, I'd be the "Ugly American" stereotype.

Believe it or not, you probably wouldn't. The fact is that English is the Lingua Franca of the world. Besides the fact that I don't think its necessary to take a year long course on Russian if I ever wanted Moscow for a week, the truth is much of the world would cater to you whether or not you spoke another language, as long as you spoke English.

Lets take my situation in China, for example.

I live in China now, and while my Chinese is passable, it's not great. It's a bloody hard language and I feel sympathy for learners of another language (though Knowing Spanish and learning English is nothing like Chinese-English, to be sure). The truth is if I could not speak a word of Chinese, I'd probably be ok----in fact when I came to China the first time a few years ago, I did exactly that, and I learned from the ground up.

I often find myself at odds with myself in this kind of debate. On one hand, knowing the language of the place you're at is common sense. While I COULD be ok in China without being able to speak Chinese, it doesn't mean I'd want to be in China without speaking Chinese. I like a certain degree of self-sufficiency and being able to speak Chinese helps immensely.

Of course on the other hand, one thing I've noticed is that in all the places I've ever been to, I've never seen so much ire directed at people not being able to speak the language than back in the U.S.. I've often discussed with friends of mine that if you live in the states and speak broken English, people think you're a dumbass. If I live in China and can say "Ni Hao", I get "Wows" and "Your Chinese is great!". I tend to have a little more sympathy for people who can't speak English so well simply because it's a hard language. Does that mean they shouldn't learn to speak it? No---they should. It just simply amuses me that a westerner can go to China for instance, and never get any shit for not being able to speak Chinese, but flip the tables around and we suddenly have a problem.


Disclaimer: I also realize the main point of this particular topic applies to people with makes the US their home and don't speak English (at all), but I think some of what I wrote still applies.

 

[Rob King]

I think a lot of your points about China are unique to China. It's not a matter of English cultures getting butthurt about people not learning English. There have already been some allusions to similar thoughts and feelings in Finland and Belgium in this thread alone. I know France is xenophobic to begin with, but that's another great example. And may God have mercy on your soul if you try to erect an English sign in Quebec.

I think the reason China is so laid back is twofold: First of all, you don't get a lot of English immigrants to China, unless they're there to teach English. You certainly don't have a lot of Americans moving to China to make a better life for themselves (or at least, not yet ). And second of all, Mandarin has so many mutually unintelligible dialects, that the Chinese are no strangers to the curse of Babylon anyways.

...

After considering it, though, perhaps it's more to do with the development of different nations. Western Europe is getting fed up with Arab immigrants. The U.S.A. is getting fed up with Spanish-speaking immigrants. Both of those situations are in developed parts of the world, taking on immigrants from less-developed nations.

Nations which might be a little bit behind on the curve would obviously be more lenient to immigrants who have (sort of) moved down in the world to come live with them. And as you said, English is the Lingua Franca of the age, so the whole world really has something to gain from English-speakers, which would explain why English Speakers are given a lot of leeway language-wise.

Hmm. Things to consider ...

 

[Bubble181]

Eh, language stuff in Europe has historical grounds as well. The French still hate anything by les Anglais; especially in towns where a large part of the population is English. Again, I'm not even goin to try and summarize the language situation in Belgium - let's just say it's complicated, and the roots go back at least to hundred years, and are as much sociological as linguistic. In most of Eastern Europe, you've got a generation that understands but refusses to speak German, a generation that understands but refuses to speak Russian, a generation that speaks German, and a generation that speaks English, all as their second languages. (from being oppressed by Nazi Germany, USSR, trying to fit in the German economic wonder and drag themselves up, and from turning to the US instead of the EU for help due to cultural imperialism aka Hollywood :-P).
China is so huge; yet have been united, for so long, that their views on language are, I think,radically different. But I haven't been to China, so....

 

[zero]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

I want to do the same here, but a bit different, since the native language is spanish.

Every single Brazilian I've dealt with doesn't even make an effort to talk in spanish. Even the French and the Germans try to talk in spanish.

Não, nós não FALAMOS Português.
And apparently it is true...

But you know, that is funny... every single Spanish guy I ever met in Brazil for some reason fully expect you to understand them in Spanish. No, we don't have this issue with French and Germans... I guess I'll make a "no hablo espanol" shirt now...

 

[Anubinomicon]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

the point of the sign is that to keep business moving in an orderly fashion you should ask for your food in a language the cook understands. end of story, glad he won.

But what happens when the cook speaks Spanish?

Or better yet, what happens when you go to my favorite Vietnamese restaurant...where the cook speaks Spanish.

Or better yet, what happens when you go to this little cart a few miles from my house where a Chinese/Mexican-American serves Chinese/Mexican-American food, but he speaks English so yeah.

I agree with most of the sentiment in this thread. I think people should be able to conduct business in any way they please as long as it's not outwardly discriminatory. If you want English only orders then ok. If you have 15 language options on your customer service line then ok. If you want to accept Mexican Pesos at your pizzaria then ok.

If immigrants of any kind have trouble with that then nuts to them. Learning the language gives you power, it makes you more successful, gives your family a future. Let's use Chaz as an example, or even me (French as a first language for my mother despite being several generations born in the US.) Because our ancestors took the time to learn they put themselves in a position to have children that went to college.

And at the same time we should give a break to those who don't know the language. While many have been here for 20 years and don't speak the language, there are many who just moved and are scared of messing up the language or coming off as ungrateful. Patience and encouragement work wonders here.

what happens when the cook speaks another language? nothing. the cook in a KITCHEN doesn't have to serve 600 people in an hour because the restaurant only holds a certain amount of people and guess what?......the waiters and waitresses ALL SPEAK ENGLISH well enough to serve the customer even if it's their second language. it was a nice grab at something there, but reality of the situation is that his business is based on customers served and not amount of money earned on higher priced dishes.

 

[Covar]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

I need to brush up on my spanish. I can still read it decently (for a kindergartner) and with Calleja being in my Twitter feed i'll have plenty of stuff to practice with. Even if its all Beatles Lyrics.

 

[Calleja]

HEY! that #TheBeatlesEnEspañol hashtag was not only hilarious but awesome!!

 

[rabbitgod]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

the point of the sign is that to keep business moving in an orderly fashion you should ask for your food in a language the cook understands. end of story, glad he won.

Clipped for ease of reading

what happens when the cook speaks another language? nothing. the cook in a KITCHEN doesn't have to serve 600 people in an hour because the restaurant only holds a certain amount of people and guess what?......the waiters and waitresses ALL SPEAK ENGLISH well enough to serve the customer even if it's their second language. it was a nice grab at something there, but reality of the situation is that his business is based on customers served and not amount of money earned on higher priced dishes.

Bolded for your convenience. It is a direct response to what you said. And now you are changing your arguement.

So what happens when the wait staff speaks another language. Or a restaurant is owned by by non english speaking people. Does the same rule apply?

And I never disagreed that the court didn't make the right decison. I completely agree that a businessman has the right do conduct business as they please (barring any real discrimination e.g. race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.). But that applies to all business. And the customer has the right to not shop at a store that doesn't cater to their linguic preference.

And I don't even know where that last part came from. I certainly didn't say that and I don't see how it's relevant to the conversation. Is that from further up in the thread?

 

[GasBandit]

Speak English. Assimilate. If your old culture was so awesome you'd still be in your old country.

 

[rabbitgod]

But what about when this country came to your culture? Louisiana Purchase and all that.

And once again I'll reiterate. I think immigrants should learn english for their own benefit. I don't think it should be required and at the same time they shouldn't get help if they don't. If you can't take the drivers test in english than you don't get to take the test. If you can skate by then so be it.

Suggesting that business have the right to work as they please because this is America and we are free to do as we please, then saying that all immigrants must learn the language is hypocritical. If some are free than all are free. Anything less is bordering racism...or linguism in this case.

 

[Anubinomicon]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

whats wrong with racism? they've been racist in the middle east, africa and asia for thousands of years. don't they still have functioning societies there? :tongue:

 

[sixpackshaker]

Speak English. Assimilate. If your old culture was so awesome you'd still be in your old country.

Dammit. yer right.

 

[WolfOfOdin]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

Speak English. Assimilate. If your old culture was so awesome you'd still be in your old country.

My family left Ireland due to job offers and having family members who were......involved in the Troubles.

Still, we keep the Irish culture up and such.

 

[Covar]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

But what about when this country came to your culture? Louisiana Purchase and all that.

Grandfather clause. All the French that were there when the US purchased it can get a free pass on any language laws. :eyeroll:

 

[rabbitgod]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

whats wrong with racism? they've been racist in the middle east, africa and asia for thousands of years. don't they still have functioning societies there? :tongue:

We're better than they are. We don't need that crutch.

Grandfather clause. All the French that were there when the US purchased it can get a free pass on any language laws.

Which is fine with me as long as it includes all the Spanish speakers from the same treaty, and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, "Seward's Foll," the Gadsden Purchase, etc. As well as all indiginous language speakers.

 

[Covar]

Speak English mothersmurfer!

:tumbleweed:

sure. Any non-english speaker alive at the time of any American land-grab treaties or situations would be exempt from any english language laws.

 

[rabbitgod]

What you don't have 200 year old Spaniards living next door?

We still need to consider Indigenous languages. They have the right to speak it as a primary language. If we give them that right, we should give everybody the right.

Bottom line for me is, you don't have to do business or engage with anybody...ever. Immigrant or not. So what does it matter?

 

[ElJuski]

I didn't know speaking a language was a right...