figmentPez
Staff member
And how does being the first to draw his gun help that situation at all?
[News] The USA Police State will never satisfy its lust for beating, gassing, and imprisoning minorities
- Thread starter Charlie Don't Surf
- Start date
It keeps your ass alive when the person you pull over acts erratically.
This is what happens when cops get complacent and don't control the situation in a traffic stop.
figmentPez
Staff member
And there are other times when it will force a shootout with someone who wouldn't have otherwise reacted violently.
Like the last time that was posted. The cop screwed up when he did not wait the extra split second after the guy jumped back out of the car. Pulling the gun was the right move, firing the gun cost him his job.
I am glad I live in a country where I dont need a gun.
GasBandit
Staff member
Yeah, bad things kinda seem to happen when Germans get a lot of guns
LmaoYeah, bad things kinda seem to happen when Germans get a lot of guns
see what will happen if you get unreasonable sanctions imposed on you by other countries who were looking for a scapegoat and a way to get money.
GasBandit
Staff member
Not that France and Russia weren't totally responsible for WW1 and the Treaty of Versailles wasn't a great big bag of suck, but I'm wondering if things might not have gone differently leading up to WW2 if the Jews weren't completely disarmed.
Considering the news the last two days, I hardly think we can be pointing fingers and making jokes about horrible actions taken by other countriesYeah, bad things kinda seem to happen when Germans get a lot of guns
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I was thinking that,but didnt want to bring that up.
For what it is worth, I like you americans. most of the americans are very nice (The ones I met)
but boy, the things that we hear about America are just crazy.
http://www.spiegel.de/international...an-exchange-student-death-in-us-a-967836.html
Met the guy at a party once. The classmate of a friend of mine. Granted,what he did was crazy stupid.
For what it is worth, I like you americans. most of the americans are very nice (The ones I met)
but boy, the things that we hear about America are just crazy.
http://www.spiegel.de/international...an-exchange-student-death-in-us-a-967836.html
Met the guy at a party once. The classmate of a friend of mine. Granted,what he did was crazy stupid.
GasBandit
Staff member
Ho ho ho, so now it's equivalent, is it? Or did I miss a genocide and invasion of an entire continent on the news?Considering the news the last two days, I hardly think we can be pointing fingers and making jokes about horrible actions taken by other countries
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Wait, are we worried about equivilancy? Looking back at the thread it's not like you were worried about it comparing the 1st amendment to the 2nd.
So doing something bad is ok, as long as it isnt as bad as what the Nazis did?
GasBandit
Staff member
Don't act like you just tried to compare the CIA torture report to the eradication of 6 million civilians as if the former means we have no moral standing to criticize the latter. That's like saying "stop complaining about his burning down that orphanage, you stomped on somebody's toe today." [DOUBLEPOST=1418432102,1418432069][/DOUBLEPOST]
The difference is, gun control enabled what the nazis did.
Yeah, it's not like we held those people on trial for the very things the CIA did or anything.
The Jews might have been able to resist,but if entire countries fell against the german horror warmachine, I dont think a couple of guys with a lot of moxy would have turned the tides.
But lets not stray from the topic, what happend in germany is a tragedy but cant be changed. What happens in america right now,can be.
But lets not stray from the topic, what happend in germany is a tragedy but cant be changed. What happens in america right now,can be.
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GasBandit
Staff member
I'm sorry I missed the part where Germany released its own documentation about its atrocities of its own volition in an attempt to address them itself internally, rather than having to fight the bloodiest war in history first.
GasBandit
Staff member
Let me be clear about something. My reference to Nazi war crimes was a joke and not actually meant to show support for gun control in Germany. It's plainly obvious I oppose gun control.
The actions of the German military and for that matter the CIA are irrelevant to the discussion.
That said, there was a point at which armed resistance would have stopped Nazi civil action. They didn't initially have a huge army and overwhelming power. Hell, Crystal Night might have turned out very differently. A couple of guys with a lot of moxie is a brash mischaracterization of universal gun ownership brought about through gun rights. It is historically documented again and again how an armed populace is able to better resist oppression and invasion than an unarmed one.
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I'm sorry, I guess we should ignore we were disgusted by the event 70 years ago and somehow STILL FELL VICTIM TO DOING IT OURSELVES. But, you know, just keep acting like we're superior.[DOUBLEPOST=1418433735,1418433612][/DOUBLEPOST]
And if you think being armed now will help the populous in a battle against the government now, you sir are unreasonable. There is no way in hell a government run amok with the technology available today would need worry about a few militia groups with what is available.
GasBandit
Staff member
Again, 6 million dead, stopped only by warfare with the entire world on one hand... vs a fraction of a fraction of a percentage of that tortured, stopped by internal review without any warfare at all. If you think those two things cancel each other out, I don't know what to tell you, other than I hope nobody ever tries to send you to the store to buy 6 million of anything.
A "few militia groups" is, again, a gross and blatant mischaracterization of the state of gun ownership in the united states. And all the technological wizardry and "limitless" coffers of the US have been brought to bear on "militia groups" in both Iraq and Afghanistan... in the long run, who would you really say is coming out on top there? Hell, Israel has the best weapon systems the US can give them, and similar budget superiority, but there are still palestinians resisting with AKs and mortars. Imagine if they were actually legally allowed to own weapons!
The only thing holding the Israelis back from making a parking lot out of Palestine is pressure from all the other countries.
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Sorry, guess I don't agree that we're really able to take any moral high ground right now. Just because the poop doesn't stink as bad as the worst dump in modern history doesn't mean we can act like we didn't crap the rug.
And yes, a few militia groups. Have you looked around? Do you notice the entire nation of gun owners standing by each other in the same battle against the government as you envision? The only thing they agree on is owning a firearm. None of those people are going to put themselves at risk because this nation protects them, being that they are white and male for the most part.
You're barking up the wrong tree if you think America's Gun Owners = A Military.
And yes, a few militia groups. Have you looked around? Do you notice the entire nation of gun owners standing by each other in the same battle against the government as you envision? The only thing they agree on is owning a firearm. None of those people are going to put themselves at risk because this nation protects them, being that they are white and male for the most part.
You're barking up the wrong tree if you think America's Gun Owners = A Military.
GasBandit
Staff member
If I actually supported the palestinian cause, I'd say that sounds like an argument in favor of palestinian gun rights, if you ask me. Palestinian gun rights are nonexistant.
Israelis, however...[DOUBLEPOST=1418435935,1418435698][/DOUBLEPOST]
And I don't agree that "crapping the rug" disqualifies us from criticizing the "worst dump in modern history," especially since the only reason that the rugcrapping is known in the first place is due to our own internal efforts to do something about the rugcrapping problem.
They don't have to be a military. They just have to be an armed populace. They don't need a leadership structure or any of those trappings to be a civilian resistance. If the US military is used to try to actively oppress/pacify the US civilian population, (or if, for some reason, the US is invaded and the military is unable to respond for whatever reason) you can bet the 90% per capita gun ownership figure will definitely be a factor.
Yeah, but it's not relevant. You're bringing up something which happened 70 years ago and acting like it happened yesterday. Germany has done a lot to remedy the errors of their history. I look forward when the US does the same for everything done in this country which we find deplorable. At least they cleaned their rug. We're still taking shits on it, over and over again.
So, you want those people to get slaughtered? Um, ok then.
GasBandit
Staff member
I brought it up as a joke, furthermore, jokingly in support of a position I plainly don't hold. The CIA torture scandal has no bearing on the fact that armed resistance to the nazi rise to power/atrocities committed in the 20s and early 30s (which, incidentally, were largely committed using truncheons and the like... yes... sticks, Krisken) might have changed the course of the 20th century.
So you want people to have no option but oppression, capitulation, and probable slaughter at the hands of their oppressors? Ok then.
Yeah, I know Poland used horses against tanks. Worked great for them. I just don't agree arming that populous would have helped since most people in Germany did their best to ignore the horrible shit going on in their country, guns or no guns.
Fair enough, logical fallacy committed. Still find saying people having pea shooters against an arsenal trained military doesn't make sense to me.
GasBandit
Staff member
Yes, charging tanks with horses is stupid. However, you might also look to Finland and the USSR, in the Winter War. Guerilla actions by an outnumbered and vastly outequipped Finn defense (32 tanks vs 6500) absolutely devastated the Russians, with a 5 to 1 casualty ratio. Furthermore, an armed populace turns every house, every apartment, every church and every office building into a potential sniper nest. Every road into a potential minefield, every alley into a potential ambush.
Many "pea shooters" owned by the US Citizenry already (and legally) are more powerful than US Army standard issue. But you're missing the point - it's not to say that an armed citizenry can go toe to toe with a trained military and win, that'd be stupid - why even have a military if that were the case? No, what an armed citizenry can do is make it more costly in men, materiel, and political will to occupy/suppress a population than the occupiers are willing to spend. After all, it's how we got run out of Iraq, handing it back to a re-branded Al Qaeda.
GasBandit
Staff member
You never did. You always do this exact thing. You argue yourself out of points and then retreat so you don't have to re-examine the basis of your belief, lest you be forced to confront the paper mache.
It works out, though... I'm trying to get some video production done, and this isn't helping
No, YOU do the exact same thing. You argue ad-nauseum, never admit when you have hit a wall of bullshit and then continue to claim victory as though you have done something grand. But hey, you call it a victory, enjoy it. You've obviously not learned anything in the last 5 years.You never did. You always do this exact thing. You argue yourself out of points and then retreat so you don't have to re-examine the basis of your belief, lest you be forced to confront the paper mache.
It works out, though... I'm trying to get some video production done, and this isn't helping