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So, if you have been following my posts for the past months, you may have seen I've been talking about a girl (sometimes dubbed "the cosplayer girl", sometimes "the girl I like"), mainly in the minor victory, epic win or minor rant threads. Let me tell you the story.
This year I started studying a master's degree, or whatever they are called. A few weeks after, all the students went to have dinner and party to meet eachother. I was seriously drunk, dancing around, when this girl comes talk to me. I had barely noticed her until that night, but she was very pretty. In my drunken stupor, I could barely believe she just came to me to ask me "If I liked comic books". Heck yea, I do! "how did you know" I asked, alcohol making me not realize I had worn Daily Planet, Arkham Asylum and Tintin shirts to class.
(the only picture of us that night isn't especially flattering... )



She then keeps talking about she liking them too, and being a cosplayer, and suggesting we may go together to the Barcelona comic convention.
Awesome.
The next day she sent me a picture of her dressed as leia.



But what did I do after that night? Reacting in my usual way and being so shy I didn't even talk to her for 3 months.
UNTIL we had another "group dinner" in wich we sat down one in front of the other. It was an awesome evening, I got VERY drunk too, but probably that was what allowed me to talk "freely" to her about how shy I was and that I didnt talk to her for months because I was shy. We talked about nerdy stuff, and it finally ended up with her inviting my friends and I to her place to watch some episodes of Stargate.

Since then we have been getting closer and closer.

(example pictures)




Then, one day, I invited lots of friends to watch a soccer match home. Only my childhood friends came... and her, who doesn't like soccer. That night she mentioned she wanted to go watch "Clash of the titans"

A week later I managed to get a date with her. Next wednesday we went watch it. We had dinner, we were alone in the cinema, and I later got my friends (who were in a car) to come get us and take her home. And these awesome friends also brought me something awesome. You see, we went to the cinema on "Saint George's day", in wich men give roses to their loved ones. They brought me a rose for her. She seemed to like it.

Next monday, she came to sit down next to me in class. We have been sitting together since then, we have gone together to the Barcelona Comic convention,

we were very close at her birthday party,

she's been texting me almost every night before going to sleep and EVERYBODY in class keeps saying it looks like there's something between us, and interrogate me about "us" at every drunken chance they get.

So, as some of you may have read, She invited me tonight to go and watch Buffy at her place. "booty call", some said. I don't know, and I'm pretty nervous... but the fact is that, two days ago, she told me she wanted to go to a concert (BSG music) with me some weeks from now... In the Canary Islands. That's both of us, alone, taking a freaking trip!

The thing is, maybe because my low self esteem, maybe because I've known of people doing all this stuff and later discovering they are just "best friends", that I'm very scared. I don't know what to do*. I HOPE tonight I get some irrefutable proof we are not "just friends", but I'm very anxious about finding the opposite. And what if she really did like me? What I'm supposed to do then? I've never been in that situation...

Can I get some sage words of advice from Dave and the rest of forumites? Seeing how awesome you all were in the "sex for newbies" thread (antoher thread about her? :sneaky: ), I'm looking forward to hearing what you think!

(I apologize for the weird english and typos. I'll be correcting them progressively)

*You should add in here the fact my parents are old fashioned and probably wouldn't let me go on that trip with a girl, wich is an important fact considering they would be paying for it.

You sound a lot like me, Jelly. So let me tell you the story of how I met my girlfriend. See, we were good friends for a while already. Talking a lot, (well, she did most of the talking but that's beside the point), hanging out, etc. etc. I thought, well, she's pretty cool, I wouldn't mind if she and I were more than just friends. Of course, me being rejected by all the girls I'd ever met I didn't ask, because I mostly wanted to stay at what we had. So one day she asked me if I felt something for her, because she definitely did for me. We've been dating for little over six months now.

The point is, if she likes you, she'll come out for it - she looks the type anyway. Either tonight with the Buffy show, or when you two are alone on the islands. Or maybe some other time. All you gotta do is stay cool, don't go in there thinking ''this night will make or break it''. That's when things go wrong. Just do what you've done so far, and if there's stronger hints about her feelings, you could ask her if you feel brave. Or she might come out with it herself. I don't really know her, so I can't particularly say how she'd be but I think she might.

Hope it works out for you!

Thanks! ^__^

Silver Jelly said:

And what if she really did like me? What I'm supposed to do then? I've never been in that situation...

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Dude, that's easy! Have fun

And remember, there's nothing wrong with telling her that you like her. It's only wrong if you act like a jerk if she doesn't reciprocate.

If you like her, tell her. BUT don't go in "expecting booty call" that will just make you more nervous than you already are. You have been enjoying each other company's for a bit of time now and have many interest. Of course look for cues. hmmmm... I am a little bit dated since well.... married for 5 years now so "the cues that she want to kiss you" and such might not be as good.

One thing my wife and I do (before we were married) and I discover that she was "really into me" is when we were watching a show one day there was a kissing scene. I took the plunge and go "kissing scene" and kissed her. of course we were cuddling at the time pretty close while watching the film.

I agree that you should tell her that you like her. If she only sees you as a friend, well yes, it'll be disappointing, but at least you'll know for sure where things stand. It sounds to me, though, like she wants to be closer to you because you have similar interests. Usually women don't do that with guys they just want to be friends with. I think there is hope for something more than friendship. One thing I would do if your parents don't agree to this trip, if you can't some how get the money on your own, then tell cos-play girl you'd like to go with her, but can't afford the trip.

Chibibar said:

"the cues that she want to kiss you"

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What cues are these? I'm interested, even if they are "dated"!

(also, thanks for all the advice!)

She might put her head on your shoulder or upper part of your chest and look up at you for a minute, then look down kind of like she's shy. She might tilt her head to one side while moving closer to you. Instead of just touching your hands, she may touch you further up on your arms or shoulders or even your face.

Seems like she really likes you to me from all that you've said... but you won't know unless you go for it. It sounds like she's trying really hard to keep in contact with you... harder than most girls would for just a friend. Plus, you admitted to her before that the reason y'all didn't talk for a while is because you are shy. That gives her a clue about you liking her, I think. If you just wanted to be friends, it probably would relax the situation.

I don't know why you seem to doubt yourself so much, SJ, because I don't know you that well... but I just wanna say you always strike me as a sweet and adorable person, and you should totally go for it... Cajun's orders.

Wasabi Poptart said:

She might put her head on your shoulder or upper part of your chest and look up at you for a minute, then look down kind of like she's shy. She might tilt her head to one side while moving closer to you. Instead of just touching your hands, she may touch you further up on your arms or shoulders or even your face.

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Thanks! ^__^

Also, CG... Well, I've always been rejected by all girls I've liked... That's probably a good reason to doubt myself :S But if those are Cajun orders, I'll have to obey! XD

Silver Jelly;398559][QUOTE=Wasabi Poptart said:

She might put her head on your shoulder or upper part of your chest and look up at you for a minute, then look down kind of like she's shy. She might tilt her head to one side while moving closer to you. Instead of just touching your hands, she may touch you further up on your arms or shoulders or even your face.

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Thanks! ^__^

Also, CG... Well, I've always been rejected by all girls I've liked... That's probably a good reason to doubt myself :S But if those are Cajun orders, I'll have to obey! XD[/QUOTE]

Well think about this. You HAVE more than one date with her right? She wants you to be around and you communicate all the time (from what you told us) so... I think this girl is interested in you. She might be shy too so maybe during the show, you could "make a move" of course if you get your cue.

usually if a woman is touching your upper arms, chest, or upper thigh (hand rest) it is a good sign really. she might lean in and close her eyes that is a given cue but personally I say enjoy the time you have with each other and don't worry too much, have them in your mind, but it should be the primary thing on your mind

Silver Jelly;398559][QUOTE=Wasabi Poptart said:

She might put her head on your shoulder or upper part of your chest and look up at you for a minute, then look down kind of like she's shy. She might tilt her head to one side while moving closer to you. Instead of just touching your hands, she may touch you further up on your arms or shoulders or even your face.

Click to expand...

Thanks! ^__^

Also, CG... Well, I've always been rejected by all girls I've liked... That's probably a good reason to doubt myself :S But if those are Cajun orders, I'll have to obey! XD[/QUOTE]

Ah, I see... well that can be rough. But it sounds like this girl has better taste.

Tell her how you feel. Openness, honesty, and communication are essential for relationships, so why not start this one with open honest communication?

It seems like everyone's giving you pearls, son, so take heed.

Bottom line, and I know this is going to sound nigh-impossible, is to RELAX. Seriously, if you're wound up tight as a fiddle, you're going to bumble through, and while it might be endearing to her, you're going to wince at the stuff you do/say. *chuckles* Relax, enjoy her company, and if the opportunity presents itself, make eye contact as much as possible. As corny as it sounds, you'll be able to tell, by the look in her eye, if she's expecting you to make a move. Trust me: look at romantic anime, then tone down the obviousness. *grins* The cues are real, but they get played up in media, because they want the audience to recognize something's there.

You sound like a great guy, fun to hang with, and this girl, as CG said, sounds like she's going out of her way to open up to you and keep something going. Trust me, as someone who's MISSED that cue before, I think you're on to something good here...

This is very hard to do when you're shy (and believe me, I used to be not very different than you), but you should just take the plunge and say "Hey.. I like you". I know, I know, the idea probably sends you into nervous spasms, but I really think you should consider it PRECISELY because it will save you much nervousness and awkwardness and... all that crap that gives you diarrhea and makes you lose your hair.

Think about it. You grab your balls and utter 4 syllables and that will instantly put the cards on the table. You'll know if she likes you too, letting you pursue the relationship like a spawning romantic on, or tell you she's just looking for a friend (which I personally don't think is the case...you're better looking than you give yourself credit for, too) in which case you can just relax, and enjoy having a cool female friend. Who may even eventually introduce you to hot friends.

The girl I'm dating had me nervous as fuck last night when we went to this bar with a great live band. She seemed to enjoy being there with me, but I still felt nervous as fuck as how to proceed (I know, I know... it's different when it's serious) until I just downed the rest of my beer, turned to her and said straight to her face : "Hey, it's really obvious I really like you, right?". Apparently it "wasn't" (She's "very bad at realizing stuff like that") but after that we talked it through, after some playful prodding she confessed to liking me too and we spent the rest of the night holding hands and even kissing a bit. It just relaxed the whole situation to be all out in the open. You should consider that, dude.

It sounds like she's pretty into you. Chill, and keep going.

And on the "negative" side, just to throw it out there, you wanna know, and if you find out she looks to you as a friend, that shouldn't end just because you spoke up. I told a girl I liked her that way and she told me she didn't feel the same. Over five years later, we're still best friends.

That said, this girl seems to be going out of her way. Calligari dumacy is right; getting it out there lets go of so much tension and makes it easier to just be upfront about it all.

So, I came back from the date. I hadn't read any answers after my last post, but I can tell you I didn't tell her. And that nothing happenned... It all looks more promising from our day to day relationship than on this particular night.

There ius something to be said for manning up. It is difficult as HELL the first time you do it but it keeps getting easier and easier and makes you feel like a badass.

This trip could be the biggest cue of all, will you be staying in 1 room or 2? Does this room have 2 seperate beds or 1 bed? these details may help clarify the situation. But a definite +1 for the rest of the advice. Take the plunge my friend!

She sent you a pic of herself dressed up as Leia?

... propose.

Here's the whole night, as I told it to some of my friends on Facebbok (private messages, obviously). It's in spanish, an a particularly erratic one, as I haven't slept much, but here you have it if you know the language.

(Notes: Caprabo is a supermarket, Yas is the girl in question.)

Acercaos, pequeños, y dejad que os cuente la historia... tal como la recuerda mi mente medio dormida.

Cap. 1

Dudando sobre si ir al Caprabo a esa hora, creyendo que quizás me sobraría tiempo, me quedé un rato en casa. Buena estrategia, pues pocos segundos después mi padre iba a bajar a comprar no sé qué cosa para la cena... Y, siguiendo los consejos de seguridad básicos cuando se va a casa de una chica, aunque no contaba con tener que usarlos, pensaba comprar lo que Nacho llamó "extras". Y no tenía ganas de dar explicaciones cuando me encontrase con mi padre y mi hermana pequeña en el supermercado, especialmente porque, por la misma razón, había dicho que iba a cenar "con gente del master" a casa de uno de ellos.
El lambrusco me salió gratis, pagó mi padre, pero yo estaba muy enfadado por temas marginalmente ajenos a la historia, así que me fui con un poco más de tiempo del que debía. Contaba con perderme, cosa que hice, pero el caso es que ya estaba en su barrio media hora antes de la convenida cuando me llama y me dice que vaya más tarde, que con el tatuaje están tardando más de los esperado.
Hice tiempo en un bar repugnante regentado por un chino, pasé por delante de una farmacia y lo dejé estar por el riesgo a que me viesen mientras regresaban a casa, y finalmente subí a su casa.

Cap. 2

El principio fue prometedor: Me recibió cariñosa, me enseñó el tatuaje (que no es tan pésimo como pensaba, aunque sigue sin acabar de convencerme: es distinto conocer a una chica y descubrirle un tatuaje discreto en la espalda o algo así a conocer a alguien con un tatuaje a la vista del tamaño de un donut, pero eso es otra historia y debe ser contada en otra ocasión) y me enseña su cuarto. Con minuciosidad. Con pausas incómodas. Eso me mola.

Me lleva a su "trastero-despacho", a ver el video que ha montado para el trabajo del lunes, saludo a la madre y a la hermana, nos instalamos un poco... No empieza mal. Se sienta a mi lado en el sofá, hay ténue roce ocasional...
Ah, y su madre y su hermana eran muy buena compañía para ver Buffy.

...

El caso es que la madre se va, después de hacer de madre típica e intentar sobrealimentarnos, y su hermana solo "se va a quedar un rato" (HASTA LAS 3:30/4:00). Es agradable, Buffy no está tan mal como recordaba, la hermana se tumba en el suelo y Yas en el sofá... con los pies orientados hacia mi. >_<
Al cabo de un rato, se reorienta con la cabeza hacia mi, y yo me arrimo tanto como es humanamente posible. Pero no funciona, hay cojines por enmedio. Y está la hermana. "cuando se vaya será distinto", pienso, "ahora no hay posibilidad de intimidad".
Sí fue distinto.

Cap 3 (y cambio de tiempo verbal así por las buenas)

A la que la hermana desalojó el suelo, Yas fue directamente, dejándome en el sofá. Me tumbé, con lo que teníamos las cabezas más o menos en el mismo eje, y me pensé si acaricarle la cabeza como a un perrito fiel, pero era como raro. Y, además, a la que percibió mi mano flotando por ahí (pero por mi pose al estar tumbado, no estaba orbitando para hacer nada), empezó como a encogerse.
Harto ya de esa situación en la que estabamos en dos planos distintos, (y viendo que la cosa se acababa, puesto que se estaba durmiendo a ratos) decido que tb me tumbaré con ella en el suelo. Me da un pequeño asunto para tumbarme a su lado... Y, juraría, ¡Se va alejando de mí progresivamente!
Finalmente, está muy cansada, me lo dice claramente y como que me medio echa / despide con prisa. Le doy el chocolate para antes de ir a dormir, que me reservaba para, bueno, cuando se fuese a dormir*, me lo agradece, pero adios. Dos besos más bien correctos y saludos desde el balcón, aunque no veo un pijo porque me ciega la farola que se interpone entre su balcón y mis ojos.

Me pierdo y acabo tomando un taxi.

*O a la cama >_> <_<

("dos besos" en la mejilla, claro)

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(I google translated it to see if it was more or less understandable. It wasn't. But it was kinda funny)

Callejambori, tell us what happened!

Short summary: her mom and sister stayed with them till late (the sister stayed till 4 in the morning...), it seemed difficult to make a move but things didn't look so bad. When the sister, who was laying on the floor, went to bed, The Girl went from the couch (where SJ was too) to the floor. She seemed very tired, falling asleep at times, and apparently when SJ went to the floor with her she tried to keep her distance. She then clearly says she's very tired and wants to go to sleep and hurriedly says goodbye. He gives her the chocolate he had been keeping for before going to bed (long story), yeah, thanks but goodbye. Two kisses on their cheeks, as is customary here, and she says goodbye from her balcony.

tegid said:

Short summary: her mom and sister stayed with them till late (the sister stayed till 4 in the morning...), it seemed difficult to make a move but things didn't look so bad. When the sister, who was laying on the floor, went to bed, The Girl went from the couch (where SJ was too) to the floor. She seemed very tired, falling asleep at times, and apparently when SJ went to the floor with her she tried to keep her distance. She then clearly says she's very tired and wants to go to sleep and hurriedly says goodbye. He gives her the chocolate he had been keeping for before going to bed (long story), yeah, thanks but goodbye. Two kisses on their cheeks, as is customary here, and she says goodbye from her balcony.

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thank you for the summarised translation!

Doesn't sound like it was a good night for it anyway, with mom and sis there at all, and when a woman is tired, that's what she means. Not wanting to deal with anything, even if she likes you .

That said, I still say to make your feelings known at some point.

escushion said:

Doesn't sound like it was a good night for it anyway, with mom and sis there at all, and when a woman is tired, that's what she means. Not wanting to deal with anything, even if she likes you .

That said, I still say to make your feelings known at some point.

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I'm wondering if it might be best for him to set up something simple and quiet like an afternoon walk somewhere scenic and talk to her then. That way, it isn't about looking for the best moment to interrupt something that was already planned. It also means that he wouldn't be competing with background noise or people interrupting. Finally, it wouldn't look as if he had some grand plan built up on the assumption that she would react a certain way.

I don't know; probably shouldn't set it up like an event either. That creates unnecessary drama around it.

But I don't know. There's no right way.

escushion said:

I don't know; probably shouldn't set it up like an event either. That creates unnecessary drama around it.

But I don't know. There's no right way.

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Yeah, I was trying to think of something that was simple as "Hey, do you want to wander around the local park."

I don't really have advice, but the best I can do is tell you my story of love and success, sir.


I was talking to a girl for a few months, and she was back in town for a short while. I was invited over one night and we were going to watch Late Night with Jimmy Fallon. (...yeah... don't ask...)

We were sitting in her garage watching it and talking and laughing, and this is what I did.

THIS IS BUMBLE'S BIG MOVE.

I asked her, "Do you know why I came over tonight?"

When she asked "why," I told her "Because I think you're so adorable, blah blah blah, (mushy personal stuffz) and I think you're amazing"

She shyly smiled and looked away and said "Yeahhh, I thought soo.."

Then I asked her "...Can I kiss you?"

And the rest is history

I was shaking unbelievably bad (I reallllyyy liked this girl, now I know I love her) and she could see that... and feel it. As we were making out.

BUT THAT'S JUST ME, YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR YOUR SITUATION

Bumble the Boy Wonder said:

I was shaking unbelievably bad (I reallllyyy liked this girl, now I know I love her) and she could see that... and feel it. As we were making out.

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XD

Thanks! I find this "Bumble's big move" inspiring!

Glad it could be of some use Good luck, sir!

Bad Dave is bad. I've been gone for a couple days so I missed this. You've been given some very good advice and I get the feeling that she's already into you. Here's a test. Has she talked about liking other men while you were around? Has she been looking and commenting on cute guys while you were around? If she's done neither of these she's interested.

But then again, your culture is different than ours so I may not know the ins & outs of dating there. I mean, Calleja always talks about how casual stuff like this in Mexico so advice to him would be off, too.

Bumblllllle, that's so sweet!

This probably ISN'T good advice, but here we go nonetheless. Never friendzone. That's obvious. The bad advice is how to avoid it. There's nothing wrong with being a friend, the problem is when there isn't any sexual tension, or even the possibility of it. Personally I refuse to be friends with women that there isn't some sexual tension with. I have had terrible terrible experiences with friend zones, and I swore it off.

First off, dress nice. I can't stress that enough. Not all the time, but every once in a while dress to the nines. Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man. Even if you are doing something more casual, put thought into it. Never wear a neck beard. And trust me, dressing nice will do more for your confidence than a pocket full of hundreds. And I'm not talking flashy shit. I have never met a woman that thought a well put together suit wasn't sexy (anyone that said otherwise was clearly lying because they were shy and I was wearing a suit.) Actually looking back on those pics I think you already have a good feel for that. Got to love you europeans, your men were trained well at a young age (American men have terrible style sense)

Second, flirt flirt flirt. It doesn't have to be overt, but it has to be there. Compliment her, but in a non-commital joking way. Like when she walks into a room for the first time and is dressed smoking hot giver her the "Daaaaaaaammmmmmmmmnnnnnnn girl!", or if she shows you a Princess Leia Cosplay outfit immediately get down on one knee and get an overly serious look on your face and ask her to marry you (won't work now of course). These are just examples, and probably not great ones. There was a friend of mine in college who I was never attracted to really, and we didn't hang out a lot, but I constantly flirted with. Even....when she told me she was getting married. Told her "I just wanted you to know that I'm ok with ignoring all those years of unfullfilled sexual tension, I can deal with it..." with a hangdog face. I wasn't trying to sleep with her or anything, that's the best part of it. The best flirting you will ever do is with someone you aren't really into, but you think 'why not?' Which brings me to my next point.

Don't ever put all your eggs in one basket. This is probably the worst advice of all of the things I will say, but I stand by it. Never become emotionally committed to someone you aren't in a relationship with. You think she's hot and awesome? Cool. Now think of someone else that you want more. Girl's can smell a guy that is overly attracted to them. It stinks up the room, it makes you awkward. That whole night on the couch story you told sounds like something that could have been avoided if your mind wasn't 100% on her. Get on a dating site or something like that, you don't even have to go out with anyone. Just talking to someone else will help you.

Here's another piece of bad advice. Alcohol. Now, I'm not saying you should get her drunk and take advantage of her. I'm really not. People are so worked up over the whole date rape thing (which IS a problem) that we have gotten overly PC about the value of alcohol in dating. It is a social lubricant, it could be a good way to hang out with her some, and could be a place for you to get a better idea of her feelings towards you. BIG WARNING! Be REALLY careful getting drunk around her. Probably not a good idea, the best bet is to have a couple drinks and smooth yourself out and that's it. Although sometimes you can totally luck out and be an adorable drunk. I wouldn't bet on that though. I go between adorable drunk and sexist asshole that talks out his ass and insults strippers (very bad night)

This is the last thing I'll mention is that at the end of the day, you have to make the move. And you will. Most of what you have told me makes me think that she is actually into you, and you are definitely into her. When it comes down to it, nothing we can say will help get you past that. You will have to take the hope and promise you have now and hold it over a cliff and drop it, hoping that she catches it. And she might not. And that sucks. But is better to know how it would go than to always look back and wonder.

Thank you!

Tell her about it. Tell her everything you feel.

Give her every reason to accept that you're for real.

CynicismKills said:

Tell her about it. Tell her everything you feel.

Give her every reason to accept that you're for real.

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I wish I could give you more rep but ALAS

Amorous Eyes said:

I'll agree that a sharply dressed man can be quite schmexy!

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Once again, ZZ Top prove themselves to be sociological geniuses

Dear SJ:
While Bumble's "big move" story is indeed inspiring, let me give you a little piece of advice:
NEVER ask a girl if you can kiss her. Kisses are not to be asked for, just kiss her.

Morphine said:

Dear SJ:
While Bumble's "big move" story is indeed inspiring, let me give you a little piece of advice:
NEVER ask a girl if you can kiss her. Kisses are not to be asked for, just kiss her.

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This. An ex told me once (when we were still dating) that one of her favorite memories was me just going for it when I thought the moment was right. Spontaneity and all that.

I once told a girl I was gonna kiss her, rather than asking. She said she didn't know, and I went for it. Then she went for it.

Then it was on.

escushion said:

I once told a girl I was gonna kiss her, rather than asking. She said she didn't know, and I went for it. Then she went for it.

Then it was on.

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FTFY.

Morphine said:

Dear SJ:
While Bumble's "big move" story is indeed inspiring, let me give you a little piece of advice:
NEVER ask a girl if you can kiss her. Kisses are not to be asked for, just kiss her.

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Yeah, kissing is the ULTIMATE example of "better to ask for forgiveness than permission"

I think it was very sweet of you to ask, Bumble. Spontaneous is indeed very nice, but I always feel a little touched when I hear of a guy asking. Seems very genteel.

Cajungal said:

I think it was very sweet of you to ask, Bumble. Spontaneous is indeed very nice, but I always feel a little touched when I hear of a guy asking. Seems very genteel.

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Well if he wants to time-travel to the 1950's when people still used the word genteel...

CynicismKills;402698][QUOTE=Cajungal said:

I think it was very sweet of you to ask, Bumble. Spontaneous is indeed very nice, but I always feel a little touched when I hear of a guy asking. Seems very genteel.

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Well if he wants to time-travel to the 1950's when people still used the word genteel... [/QUOTE]

...What am I going to do with my novelty license plate that reads 'GENTEEL' in this day and age?? D:

CynicismKills;402698][QUOTE=Cajungal said:

I think it was very sweet of you to ask, Bumble. Spontaneous is indeed very nice, but I always feel a little touched when I hear of a guy asking. Seems very genteel.

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Well if he wants to time-travel to the 1950's when people still used the word genteel... [/QUOTE]

That sounds suspiciously Chandler-esque.

Cajungal;402820][QUOTE=CynicismKills;402698][QUOTE=Cajungal said:

I think it was very sweet of you to ask, Bumble. Spontaneous is indeed very nice, but I always feel a little touched when I hear of a guy asking. Seems very genteel.

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Well if he wants to time-travel to the 1950's when people still used the word genteel... [/QUOTE]

That sounds suspiciously Chandler-esque.[/QUOTE]

Bumble the Bing Wonder?

Chandler is MY TERRITORY!

(Friends is my all-time favorite sitcom, I own all 10 seasons on DVD. Nothing helps me out of a funk better than a few episodes of Friends)

Yeah but you're not a Chandler. I think you might be more of a Ross.

No way, Calle is Joey without question.

Shegokigo said:

No way, Calle is Joey without question.

Click to expand...

Pretty much this.

Just a raise of his eyebrow and a "como estaaas?" and the ladies line up!

LOL!

He's kind of a mixture, people, he's a little bit of Joey, a lot of Ross and he can be quite Chandler-esque sometimes.

Maybe out "there" but "here" he ain't no Ross. :humph:

Bumble the Boy Wonder;402884][QUOTE=Shegokigo said:

No way, Calle is Joey without question.

Click to expand...

Pretty much this.

Just a raise of his eyebrow and a "como estaaas?" and the ladies line up![/QUOTE]
Ok, yeah I can actually really see that.

I'm more Chandler-esque than you'll ever know!!

Could you BE any more Chandler?!

Che faaaaiiiii?

Shegokigo said:

Maybe out "there" but "here" he ain't no Ross. :humph:

Click to expand...

I dunno, he drones on about endangered Beetles like Ross drones on about extinct reptiles. ;p

Actually.. you guys know how I'm using EXCITED CAPS all the time? That's my loud Chandler impression... something like:

"Oh no, two women love me! They're both gorgeous and sexy, my wallet's too small for my fifties AND MY DIAMOND SHOES ARE TOO TIGHT!!"


So from now on, every time you see me type in CAPS, read it in Chandler's voice.

THAT IS SO NOT THE OPPOSITE OF TAKING SOMEONE'S UNDERWEAR!!!

Sorry, the only thing I'm seeing now when I read that is this:

I'm too picky and geeky to be Joey... but I guess if you had to boil it down I'd say I'm a combination of Chandler and Joey... no Ross in me, I get plenty geekyness from Chandler alone. Plus I had the whole "the world is my lesbian wedding" down to a tee through most of high school, I didn't start even talking to ladies until senior year, which is when my Joey-ish features started to bubble up.

THERE IS SOME ROSS IN YOU, GORRAM IT, DON'T DENY IT!!

How am I Rosslike!? Give me one good rosslike feature I have that isn't covered by Chandler! I TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!

i always think of actually.

If you want me to email you about upcoming shows (puts up a block of paper) please give me money so I can buy a computer.

Phoebe

B.T. said:

i always think of

actually.

Click to expand...

Smelly caaaat, smelly caaaat, whaaaat are they feeding yooooou?

Smelly caat, sme-lly cat... it's not your faaaa-aaaaault!

Sometimes your geek side is more on Ross's side than Chandler's type of geekiness, Calleja, and your stubborness is more Rosslike than Chandlerlike.

Morphine said:

Sometimes your geek side is more on Ross's side than Chandler's type of geekiness, Calleja, and your stubborness is more Rosslike than Chandlerlike.

Click to expand...

No, the geek side is completely covered by Chandler... he's the guy that'll quote pop culture references left and right, Ross is a NERD, the more scholar awkwardish type... which I am definitely not. This comes from someone who's watched every single episode of Friends ever produced... several times.

The stubbornness might be more of a point... except Chandler can be way more stubborn (ie: when he refuses to let the girls move back into their apartment, evne though Joey was ok with it) whereas Ross can be quite the push over (ie: Phoebe convinced him Evolution could be wrong, just off the top of my head).

So.. no. No Ross in me.

See that? That whole thing? Classic Ross.

:shocked:

Th-that's.... that's true. I... I just heard that whole post being said by Ross.

Holy shit, THERE'S ROSS IN ME!!!!

I did give up a career in basketball to become a paleontologist!

Now all you need is a tube of hair gel and a monkey.

Baerdog said:

Now all you need is a tube of hair gel and a monkey.

Click to expand...

It can safely be said that hair gel is something Kameha will never need.

So, Silver Jelly did you tap it yet? It's been a few days now since the start of the thread. The Jay is getting impatient with the lack of gory details.


Seriously though man, let me take a moment to pull you aside and make you realize something right now. How long are you going to dick around and waste such a great opportunity to be with someone you obviously like so much? A person who's quite possibly interested in you, this same person that got you to post about (even post pictures of!) on the internet forums seeking for advice? Dude, you're killing yourself here. Are you that afraid of rejection that you'll settle for friendship or nothing at all? How would you feel if she met someone else? MMmm?

Honestly though, women have needs and if you won't balls up, someone else will. Where do you live BTW ? She sounds like a great gal and judging from the pictures... very cute. Dude, she sent you a picture of herself in a Leia outfit and you didn't talk to her for 3 months!!!! Comon man, did you at least jerk off to it a few times? Doesn't she make you want her? To be with her? To cherish her? I'm going to save a copy of that picture myself... good god.

You need to stop looking down on yourself, you're not an ugly guy, if seen far worse out there (heck, even on these forums, FFS), you truly think she's not attracted to you? Dude, she's already contemplated being with you hundreds of times, she's already spoke to her friends about you, even if she's playing possum when you're with her, don't you think that maybe she can be shy herself and you're at a standstill?

Build a plan, a simple plan to separate yourself from a bunch of other people, you tend to hang out with random drunk people all the time and that's killing your mojo. Go somewhere else, not the movies, that's the worst place to be at this moment, not cosplay conventions neither buddy, Leia outfits give boners and kill your ability to think straight. Do something fun, just you two.... together. It's summer, go to the carnival, to the beach, go have a walk and have some ice cream, chit chat with her, see how she feels, let your heartbeat go crazy as you notice things but her, look at her beautiful dark brown eyes, notice the way she touches her hair when you speak to her, look at what she wore for you and ask her a bunch of questions about her, PM me if you need a list, you don't need to be enrico suave, just be yourself... look at her smile, check to see if she wore lipstick.... look at her lips, trust me... and when that moment comes, be spontaneous, kiss her.

Sometimes Calleja gets really worked up over the craziest things. Sorry, Mexico, you're a Monica.

Gusto said:

Sometimes Calleja gets really worked up over the craziest things. Sorry, Mexico, you're a Monica.

Click to expand...

Point.

No, no.. Chandler gets worked up just as I do. Don't make me back up my arguments with videos here.

Monica had only one redeeming feature.

A mustachioed boyfriend?

We gotta get one of those for Calleja.


Also, SJ, Jay has a point about your looks. You've gotten down on yourself before, but you're not a bad looking guy.

In fact, pretty much most of what Jay said was correct, aside from the disturbing parts.

What the hell's been happening?

I don't think we need Dave anyone to give people advice. We got ourselves a superior product here people!

Gusto said:

Monica had only one redeeming feature.

Click to expand...

WHAT!? One redeeming feature!? Uh, dude:



Courtney Cox is GORGEOUS. That's not even a great pic, either.

I meant as a character. She dated a guy played by Tom Selleck.

Chandler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (...)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard

Am I in the 90s? Has halforums become one of the thousands of "which friend are you" quizzes that plagued the internet?

...ok I can play it cool but I definitely took some of those.

I hate Monica.

I like Rachel Season 1 and 2... you know, when she had curves.

Coupling is a better sitcom.

I've never watched Friends. I didn't care much for Seinfeld, either. Granted this was when the shows were still on TV, so who knows what I'd think now.

By the end of that show the only character I still liked at all was Joey.

Well in the end they most of them became really loud caricatures of their old characters. Seriously, half of the lines that they knew were supposed to be funny were SCREAMED. Monica became a monstrous hellbeast, Ross became even more of a whiny puss, and Chandler went from being sharp, witty, and bitter (but in a funny way ) to being this neutered married guy with a really really really red face and not much to say besides "I love you so much" to Monica.

Love the old episodes and some of the new ones, but I cannot cannot cannot watch the last couple of seasons.

Coupling was fucking hilarious. The "String Quartet" episode was brilliant.

Wow, Jay... your post was... passionate...

So, status update (I'm typing this for the second time, as I don't know what I accidentally typed to make the window disappear...)

Buffy night was awful, not only because the apparent loss of this complicity feeling, but also as the beginning of a general loss of chemistry between us. I worried all week, but I thought that maybe it was just old paranoid me acting up.
Se keeps reacting positively at a guy in my class (who has a gf and seems to make advances with everybody, girls and guys alike). I'm jealous, but I know it's no big deal.
They seem to get along pretty well, and kinda excluding themselves from the group, when we were having a beer with some people from class. She then left, because she had to go to the cinema, telling the person on the other side of the phone "she was with some girl-friends ("amigas").

For an acting practice on monday, we gather that saturday at a friend's house to rehearse. It's this friend, me and her, and we are waiting for "advancing guy", who's late.
No chemistry here. And, when we are alone one moment, I tell her we still have to plan the trip.
She tells me she has no money to go and will resell the tickets.
Advancing guy comes and chemistry starts being thrown around, between him and her.
I was so upset that when I had the chance, when we finished rehearsing, to invite her for coffe (a good moment to make some advances myself, if not plainly telling her) I get nervous and end up not doing so.
I'm pretty depressed, and I decide to accept an invitation of a mutual friend to go have dinner at his place. She has already told me she wasn't coming.

I have two "infiltrated" friends in the class wich are good friends of mine and try to gather information and be my counselors. One of them is also going, and tells me to tell her to go to the dinner. Ok, I send her a text. "come on, XXXX and XXXX and XXXX are going! Come with us!"
I get no reply, i meet with this friend. She tells me "my" girl has called her, basically answering my message... but to her, not to me.

We go to this dinner, I feel like she is kinda avoiding me (but I'm pretty sure that was paranoid Jelly) and I see she keeps texting somebody, even when she told me she didn't text people at night because she had to pay (and calling was free for her), more or less when she stopped texting me before going to sleep.

At that moment, I'm pretty sure one of my biggest fears, wich Jay expressed so vehemently in his post, had become true: She had found somebody more straightforward and less insecure than me. I lost her because I had waited too long.

I'm pretty decided to try and do something the next week.
On sunday they call me from italy. My Italian grandfather is dying. I fly there with my dad and stay for a week, until my grandad died. I came back today.

With my limited acces to the internet during this "absent" week, I basically was incommunicated from everybody, but I gathered the information, from one of these "spy" friends, that she doesn't have another guy, as far as my informer knows, but that she WILL be going, alone, to the trip and concert.

My guess is she resold only my ticket.

So I come back, I had to draw some caricatures for our yearbook and send them to her. She has found an alternative, as it was very late: The "advancing" guy and her "managed to get something together".

Classes end this friday. I wanted to have a clear answer before the "final dinner", but right now I don't know what I have/want to do.

I guess you are not very surprised if I'm not in a great mood right now.

(EDIT: I want to clarify I don't think there's anything between "advancing guy" and "cosplayer girl"... I just get jealous because he keeps telling her almost everything I think I'd like to tell her and I'm to shy to say and because there seems to be a lot of chemistry there... Maybe it was already clear from these posts, but I'm unsure about my erratic english)

SJ: so... wait. she is not currently dating anyone right now but seem at a loss that you didn't "take the plunge"? if she is not dating others, you may still have hope. If she is dating the other guy, then well.... I'm sorry for your loss bud

From what he says no, she isn't dating anyone else but apparently she has lost interest for him and seems to somehow have replaced him with this other guy...

Amorous Eyes said:

My condolences about your grandfather, Jelly. *hug*

Also, and I know you don't want to hear this, but my advice would be to let her go and try and treat this whole event as an eye opener. If you like a girl you better tell her, and tell her fast. Even if she doesn't reciprocate at least you know where you stand and you can move on instead of torturing yourself for months on end. That's not good for your psyche.

It may not seem like it now, and I know you are sad, but you will recover from this. Sounds like this girl already put you in the "friend zone" a while ago and once there it is nigh impossible to get out of. As for the supposed lies... I don't know. Don't get to paranoid about this. Besides, if she did lie about all those things, you should not want to be with her anyways.

I'm sorry it went like this, but you will get over this. You'll be stronger and smarter for it, too, and you will find someone else. That time, try and remember this event, and just go for it.

Click to expand...

^-- good advice consider lesson learned. you are good looking fellow. I am sure other opportunity will come along

I'm sorry to hear this ended that way, Jelly old friend. But I agree, Ame's giving you some good advice.

Stay strong.

So, it's really ended? Or should I end it by forgetting about her? or by telling her?

I don't know if it's going to matter at this point. She seems to have moved on at this point. It may not be that she moved onto someone in particular, but she has moved away from interest in you.

I'm sorry, SJ. Ame is right; treat this as an eye-opener and learn from it.

That is really sad to hear,Jelly.The situation does seem pretty much hopeless.I would probably end it,but not without clearing the table first.Tell her how you feel.Even if she does not feel the same,you will have it off you chest and you will stop worrying about it.Even if it hurts you,time heals and you can chalk it under learning experiences.

That's true. If she's drifting away, you have nothing to lose. Just try not to make a huge thing out of it.

I have to agree that she's probably moved on. But like LR says, that doesn't have to stop you from laying it all out before you move on. It might make you feel better to know that you were honest. I'm sorry, Sil. I think you're a real sweetheart and a gentleman, but you can't wait around too long to say how you feel. I hope you feel better soon. :hug:

I said it before and I said it again, she's a tasty catch. I reread your original post and feel it now more than ever. She's great... she's like... my Sarah Walker from Chuck. What made you think she'd wait around for you to make up your mind and make a move? All you're doing is screwing yourself.

You can't forget about her. You never will. It'll be especially worse if you're not going to at least be honest to her and most importantly, to yourself by telling her how you feel. Will she really be gone? Have you changed the way you acted? Maybe your paranoia is getting her freaked out. You need to quit it. Calm down. Breath. Be honest.

Worst case scenario? She turns you down.

You'll learn.

And you still have those amazing Leia pictures.

I've been down this road many times before. I decided to give it up after high school. You really are best just letting girls know. I have an ABYSMAL track record, myself, but I still do what I can to man up and just go make a move. You've got to. Women don't want to wait around. And yeah, honestly, most of the time they'll say no. But you know what? It doesn't hurt as bad as you imagine it will. The stressing over it is a lot worse, so you might aswell.

You might want to say something to her now, but basically, everything Jay has said in this thread has been, to my limited understanding of women and relationships, correct.

If you'll pull a move, don't be fancy. Don't ask open questions where you'll not get ideal answers. Try to get her alone with her. It doesn't matter what or where as long as you two are alone. Complement her. Tell her she looks nice. When you greet her (hopefully with a hug or kiss) greet her more warmly, take an extra second and tell her right away she smells nice. Take it from there. Be a little flirty. If needed have a drink or two beforehand to loosen up (but don't go there smelling like booze). Tell her how you feel and how long you've been holding it in.

Fortitudinae, my friend. Take stock in all that you've learned, and don't lose heart. Your hour will come, and it will shine forth as a bright light from the heavens on a cloudy day.

Jay said:

Have you changed the way you acted?

Click to expand...

.

pssh, BURN HER!

That's your answer for everything these days - eye lasers and immolation.

(Awesome band name, BTW)

tegid;407459][QUOTE=Jay said:

Have you changed the way you acted?

Click to expand...

.[/QUOTE]

I don't think so... I keep saying silly stuff and making puns and jokes, but she doesn't play along anymore. She stopped making physical contact, and doesn't seem to want to be with me so much, but I'm acting more or less like I always do...

Nothing has ended. One of the best analogies I have ever heard when it comes to chasing women is from 40 year old virgin. You have planted a seed. The seed is there, definitely. The question is how it grows. If you put too much water on it she will smell the stink on you from a mile away, and then the plant will die. Right now it sounds like you just need to leave it alone. Let the seed do its thing, leave it be.

Don't avoid her, but don't over water her either. Like I said earlier the best way to do that is to go join some site like OKCupid or Plentoffish or whatever, and look for other girls. You don't have to date them if you don't want, but trust me on this, simply looking will help you appreciate that there are other things out there, and that will change how you act around her. Maybe not conciously, but it will.

So seriously, go get on one of those sites. Go start looking at other women. I am able to maintain an adequate amount of disinterest in a specific woman because I can always shift my mental focus to others, and I don't end up with all my eggs in one basket. This leaves me with a lot of seeds, all over the place, and when/if the time is right I can go after it.

Fact is you're an attractive clean cut guy, and there are girls out there that would want a piece of you. The problem seems to be that you're suffering from "one-itis" (I know, the people that came up with those terms are morons, but it is a good concept,) and you have to break yourself out of that.

On the bright side, one-itis is a hell of a lot better than bone-itis.

I don't really have anything to add that hasn't been said, I just wanted to make a joke.

Fuck that other guy. Jesus, just make a move on her. If she slaps you silly, at least you'll know. Stop playing coy.

Chazwozel said:

Fuck that other guy.

Click to expand...

That probably won't impress her.

Seriously, though, don't be passive on this. Be honest and stop waiting for her to make a move if you want it that badly.

Piotyr;407704][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:

Fuck that other guy.

Click to expand...

That probably won't impress her.

Seriously, though, don't be passive on this. Be honest and stop waiting for her to make a move if you want it that badly.[/QUOTE]

well... If you like the girl enough, then make or break it, but since you are pretty shy and may not do that, that is why I suggest move on and go do something different.

or do what Chaz says... Man up and go!

Chaz and Necronic, great posts.

Seriously. And if while trying to explain things to her, your English gets goofy or whatever. Just throw your hands up and say, "aw fuck it all", and swoop in for a big sloppy kiss. That'll tell ya fo' sure. Girls like that romance impulsive shit.


*actually* that might have worked for me because I'm not shy, and turning into a bumbling idiot might have been a turn on. I dunno.

It doesn't seem I'll be able to see her until the group dinner on friday. I was so sure I would see her today at class! (and had decided that I would tell her, even if the way or the place weren't particulalry good). Well, keep the advice coming. I'm liking it very much.

Just first and foremost, remember that you rock. ;D

Cajungal said:

Just first and foremost, remember that you rock. ;D

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That's awesome, because you can't stop the rock! Can't stop the rock!

Silver Jelly;407832][QUOTE=Cajungal said:

Just first and foremost, remember that you rock. ;D

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That's awesome, because you can't stop the rock! Can't stop the rock![/QUOTE]

And remember that your shake is superior to that of jam.

My shake brings all the boys to the yard?

Well, I'm here in the yard, anyway.

Buena suerte.

Cajungal said:

Well, I'm here in the yard, anyway.

Click to expand...

I'm not even sure what we are talking about anymore. I don't even have a Yard.

Silver Jelly;407864][QUOTE=Cajungal said:

Well, I'm here in the yard, anyway.

Click to expand...

I'm not even sure what we are talking about anymore. I don't even have a Yard.[/QUOTE]

Well get one! Chicks dig yards.

Cajungal;407865][QUOTE=Silver Jelly;407864][QUOTE=Cajungal said:

Well, I'm here in the yard, anyway.

Click to expand...

I'm not even sure what we are talking about anymore. I don't even have a Yard.[/QUOTE]

Well get one! Chicks dig yards.[/QUOTE]

And bury bones!

Why are you still on the forum and not getting your freak on?

Chazwozel said:

Why are you still on the forum and not getting your freak on?

Click to expand...

.

So, I know I have to update this thread, but you can imagine with what kind of news if I haven't yet...

You don't have to tell any of us anything, SJ. It's your life, your business, we have no right to it. You do what feels right for you.

So, it's the super duper master's closing dinner. I can't manage to get us to seat nearly. She sits down besides one of my secret allies. The dinner ends, and as this restaurant's schtic is that it's also like a bar with a dance floor, everybody starts getting up to dance and order drinks.
I don't need to order any drinks, wine has been flowing freely (though not uncontrolably) and I'm ready to talk to her.
I stand up. I'm walking towards her.
My infiltrated ally stops me.
"Abort every plan"
Why? Apparently, during the dinner, she had told her that I was trying to get into a trip she was trying to prepare. (the word she used, in spanish, was "acoplar", wich in this context means "joining without being wanted nor invited")

Man, was I furious. And sad. I gulped down a lot of vodka, and rum, and danced like crazy. I didn't get near her.

When the restaurant closed we went to a pretty cool (gay) club. She didn't join us, though, because she had to go to work the next day. When she was leaving, she told me that "we hadn't spoken that evening". I said I would have liked to, but whatever. She left, together with that ally girl.

I went to the club, had a great partying-because-you-are-so-depressed time and danced with my friends, including a gay friend of mine, (who kissed me on the cheek and said that of course that I could call him if I ever wanted to try having sex with a man, he kissed me twice more, always on the cheek, and I kissed his beard too once: what a weird feeling, kissing beards!)

It was 6 in the morning already when some friend (I don't exactly recall who he was, I was terribly drunk at that time) asked me about this girl and I. I told him what I was told that day by this "ally" of mine.
He insisted I take what she says with a grain of salt, he didn't think she was a reliable transmitter of information.

--- second chapter ---

Those words got stuck in my head for 3 days in wich I was furious and depressed. But it was not possible. She could not have been wrong, or even have changed what the cosplayer girl had told her!

In a facebook thread I have for instant support on this matters (wich includes this "ally girl") I said I saw the "cosplayer girl" as "manipulative and fake".
The ally girl then jumped at my jugular, saying that she told me what she told me to stop me, but that those weren't the "cosplayer girl"'s exact words.
She then proceeded to tell me how "Cosplayer Girl" didn't feel anything for me, and that she told me not to go to the trip because she felt it would be "weird" being alone with me in a hotel, and that if she started getting distant is because she "realised" I liked her and didn't want to hurt me, but if I wanted to call her names and made me feel better, then I could do whatever I wanted.

Chill out, man. I'm not the one who made me be raging 3 days thinking the girl I'm in love with is a manipulative bitch that talks badly about me when I'm not listening...

So, of course, there's nothing I can do. When she comes back from the trip, next week, I'll have coffee with her, to give her back her Terminator Dvd, and then I'll tell her I've been in love with her for some time. When she tells me she isn't, i'll insist I want us to be friends, but that she has to understand it if I keep the distance for some time. And then I'll go home to keep eating (dietetic products) like a pig.

Of course, all this if this last version of the story can be trusted... I'm not saying that my infoltrated friend has done anything on purpose, but even if she acted with her best intentions, now I can't trust her version of what was said (wich doesn't mean not trusting her as a person!)

But I'm pretty depressed right now. At least I kinda scored with my gay mexican friend...

*not-gay teddy bear hug*

I feel for you, ystävä... Love can be a wondrous thing, but sometimes that rose hides thorns.

Stay strong, and remember not to look back. You can't change the past, the future is unknowable, so live in today.

No, I know you are right. That's what I should have done... I'm in the middle of all this highschool drama because my "dating experience" is that of a non confident highschooler, though. But, as you (and others) have previously said, this situation is already lost and I should try to learn from it. And I'm trying, I swear.

If I suspected a person who was attempting to court me had splinter cell agents seeking out information for them, I'd want to be pretty reclusive and distance myself too.

Or I'd blow the person's mind and approach them directly.

Gusto said:

If I suspected a person who was attempting to court me had splinter cell agents seeking out information for them, I'd want to be pretty reclusive and distance myself too.

Click to expand...

You know, that's one of my theories... There's something fishy about my friend's post, and it may be a symptom of her blowing up her spy status and not wanting to include it in the story.... I hope not, but at this point I'm terribly paranoid.

Edit: that's another one of the reasons I decided to stop this nonsense and talk to her as soon as she comes back from her trip, maybe hearing some other friends advice, but keepiing my most involved (and, because of this, intrusive) friends out of it.

It's cool to talk to others in order for advice or whatever. I got with my last girlfriend because a mutual friend set us up and talked me up pretty well.

But it's another thing entirely to get friends to talk to a girl that you already know fairly well. You don't NEED that point of contact. You were already in, no need for secrecy and fuckin' espionage.

By the way, if it seems like I'm yelling, some of it is self-directed. I and many others before you have made this same mistake.

Now I know... and knowing is half the battle?

Not really, no. Add this experience to your lexicon and you'll be better off next time, bromigo.

Sigh. At least the word "bromigo" made me smile...

Silver Jelly said:

Sigh. At least the word "bromigo" made me smile...

Click to expand...

Then I've done all I can. :toocool:

Gusto;410587][QUOTE=Silver Jelly said:

Sigh. At least the word "bromigo" made me smile...

Click to expand...

Then I've done all I can. :toocool:[/QUOTE]

Oh no you haven't :eyebrows:

Sorry to hear that SJ but experience will teach you that in this day and age everything is pretty fast pace. You can't wait around for a girl for weeks or month. You either have to act on it, or lose it (as you have discover) I am sorry you miss the opportunity BUT there are other people out there. The world is a big place and I'm sure you'll find someone to be with

buck up buckaroo!

Chibibar said:

buck up buckaroo!

Click to expand...

Hahahhaha, this. :laugh:

I... don't understand

What is up with all these middle men (or women)? And why are they saying stuff to you that the girl said to them? Why the fuck can't they mind their own business? And gay clubs? Dude... WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON IN THIS SHIT.

Ok, firstly. You need to get a mean streak going with these people. You need to be firm and tell them, "Listen, I'm a big boy, kindly get out of my way." and actually talk to this girl. These are all excuses and you're giving yourself a FAR WORSE TIME than actually getting rejected.

Secondly, please for the love of GOD, I don't know if it's the translator doing this but but don't tell the girl that you LOVE her, cause that doesn't tend to end well. Women get scared of guys doing that. Tell her you felt a connection with her awhile back that you miss (smile at her while you tell her this, coyishly, to show your interest in her, without making it look scary), ask her if she felt that connection with you as well. How do you translate that in spanish? Connectiones? I mean, this is a safe word!!!

Tell her to be honest with you. DON'T INVITE ANYONE ELSE. Make this at a very public place, like a coffee shop, where she will be comfortable. Take it from there. If she says no, she only likes you as a friend, nod and tell her you understand. Even if you don't. Don't ask why she doesn't feel that way. Don't ask her for details in any shape or form. It's just NOT there. Smile and move on. IF you want to be friends with her all the better but try your best to lose interest in her. Go out, have fun, MEET OTHER WOMEN. It'll only get easier. If she doesn't you can excuse yourself. There's no shame in not wasting eachother's time.

If she does have interest in you, GREAT. Tell her if she'd like to do something just you two together. Like a nice resto somewhere she likes with great food and a nice atmosphere (again, with no one else), then make plans separately with friends, if you guys are comfy with that.

Other than that, good luck and sweet jesus, drunk in a gay club? Spanish people really are queer.

We have "querer" in spanish, which is less than love but more than like.

This is why the English won.

Even now I'm loving all your advice, as frustrating as it may be. But don't worry about the "love" part. I won't say the dreaded "I love you" frase. I've watched How I met your mother AND Hitch.

(In spain's spanish "querer" is the word for "love" though. Words like "amar" are dated and literary.)

What? What are you talking about, we still make a big deal of going to "te amo" down here. It's still used. You just don't throw away a powerful word like that!

Calleja said:

What? What are you talking about, we still make a big deal of going to "te amo" down here. It's still used. You just don't throw away a powerful word like that!

Click to expand...

It was like that when I got here... As far as I know, "Te amo" is what poets tell to their loved ones and characters in not very well translated movies say to eachother. Of course, it could just be in the zone of catalan influence, where both spanish and catalan are bastardized and impovireshed form their cohabitation... but I don't think so!

Men are predators. Predators hunt alone. It's not done by committee, its not done with secret agents, its not done with negotiators. The only time predators work together is to take down a herd. But they should be able to do it themselves. It's what seperates them from scavengers. Scavengers just go after the women that are left broken and limping after some predator had its way with her, then goes in for it's own piece.

Necronic said:

Men are predators. Predators hunt alone. It's not done by committee, its not done with secret agents, its not done with negotiators. The only time predators work together is to take down a herd. But they should be able to do it themselves. It's what seperates them from scavengers. Scavengers just go after the women that are left broken and limping after some predator had its way with her, then goes in for it's own piece.

Click to expand...

What the fuck am I then, seeing I haven't done any of the things you say? A herbivore?

Silver Jelly said:

Even now I'm loving all your advice, as frustrating as it may be. But don't worry about the "love" part. I won't say the dreaded "I love you" frase. I've watched How I met your mother AND Hitch.

(In spain's spanish "querer" is the word for "love" though. Words like "amar" are dated and literary.)

Click to expand...

what do you mean dated and literary?!
It's PERFECT. It's very very useful to have two different words for different kinds of love. I love-as in "querer" a lot of people, but I love-as in "amar" very few and I do say "Te amo" to them.

Morphine;411135][QUOTE=Silver Jelly said:

Even now I'm loving all your advice, as frustrating as it may be. But don't worry about the "love" part. I won't say the dreaded "I love you" frase. I've watched How I met your mother AND Hitch.

(In spain's spanish "querer" is the word for "love" though. Words like "amar" are dated and literary.)

Click to expand...

what do you mean dated and literary?!
It's PERFECT. It's very very useful to have two different words for different kinds of love. I love-as in "querer" a lot of people, but I love-as in "amar" very few and I do say "Te amo" to them.[/QUOTE]

I can see that, but IT ISN'T USED IN SPAIN. That's all I'm saying!

Psha! You Spaniards... ¬¬

It IS inconvenient not to be able to use amar because it sounds weird...

Also SJ, I like your plan. Just don't take any more advice from that girl, she's fucked up twice already!

Silver Jelly;411131][QUOTE=Necronic said:

Men are predators. Predators hunt alone. It's not done by committee, its not done with secret agents, its not done with negotiators. The only time predators work together is to take down a herd. But they should be able to do it themselves. It's what seperates them from scavengers. Scavengers just go after the women that are left broken and limping after some predator had its way with her, then goes in for it's own piece.

Click to expand...

What the fuck am I then, seeing I haven't done any of the things you say? A herbivore?[/QUOTE]

If you tell her all this stuff and are then shot down and you hang around as a friend, then you are a scavenger. You'll sit there waiting for her to end whatever relationship she is in and hope that she'll finally see you as the cool guy you are. It's a trap that too many men fall into these days, and trust me on this: women love it. They either love the ego boost they get from a guy that's always attracted to them, or they love the fact that they have a guy friend that is always bending over backwards for them, being basically the best friend that anyone could ever ask for. But at the end of the day they go to bed with someone else.

But right now you aren't a herbivore, you're a man who has lost his fangs. Without a sense of self-confidence and presence you won't meet many women that are worth your time. You need to get that back, and neither I nor anyone else can tell you how to do it. It's just part of being a man. I had someone take it from me (or convince me to give it up) a while ago, and it's been hard rebuilding it, but if you spend your life unsure whether you have anything worth offering a woman then you're also unsure if you have anything to offer the world at large. And that's a much more serious problem.

Society does a good job of making men circus lions, and we forget that the lion tamer with his little whip isn't a real threat. We all suffer from this, whether it's women or our job or our finances or whatever. We forget that we are the beginning and the end of our world, and we control our own destiny in a way that no one else ever can.

This isn't to say that you can ever remove fear. Fear of failure, fear of inadequacy, fear of rejection or reproach. That will always be there. But you have to learn to cope with it. The best description I have heard is that it is like a pebble in your shoe. It's there. It's irritating. But you just do your best to ignore it and you keep running.

So if nothing else, take this as an oppurtunity to look at yourself. Why do you lack your fangs? Are your confidence issues just with women or are they rooted at a much deeper level. If so, look to the lion tamers in your life, and regain your ego. Tear their throats out. You and you alone are the master of your domain.


PS I don't know why I went on with this whole Lion Tamer metaphor. I couldn't stop thinking of that old Monty Python skit. Totally wrecked the strength of the imagery in my mind.

That was a fantastic post.

It really was.

Silver Jelly;411131][QUOTE=Necronic said:

Men are predators. Predators hunt alone. It's not done by committee, its not done with secret agents, its not done with negotiators. The only time predators work together is to take down a herd. But they should be able to do it themselves. It's what seperates them from scavengers. Scavengers just go after the women that are left broken and limping after some predator had its way with her, then goes in for it's own piece.

Click to expand...

What the fuck am I then, seeing I haven't done any of the things you say? A herbivore?[/QUOTE]
you are a timid predator just need to leave the nest more and have more confident. There are several level of predators. Think like a lion. you have alpha male (head) and then you have the other male if any that follow. I think most of us are trying to get you to lead your own life instead of following other alpha male.

It sounds better in my head, so I hope I convey it correctly.

Necronic;411200][QUOTE=Silver Jelly;411131][QUOTE=Necronic said:

Men are predators. Predators hunt alone. It's not done by committee, its not done with secret agents, its not done with negotiators. The only time predators work together is to take down a herd. But they should be able to do it themselves. It's what seperates them from scavengers. Scavengers just go after the women that are left broken and limping after some predator had its way with her, then goes in for it's own piece.

Click to expand...

What the fuck am I then, seeing I haven't done any of the things you say? A herbivore?[/QUOTE]

If you tell her all this stuff and are then shot down and you hang around as a friend, then you are a scavenger. You'll sit there waiting for her to end whatever relationship she is in and hope that she'll finally see you as the cool guy you are. It's a trap that too many men fall into these days, and trust me on this: women love it. They either love the ego boost they get from a guy that's always attracted to them, or they love the fact that they have a guy friend that is always bending over backwards for them, being basically the best friend that anyone could ever ask for. But at the end of the day they go to bed with someone else.

But right now you aren't a herbivore, you're a man who has lost his fangs. Without a sense of self-confidence and presence you won't meet many women that are worth your time. You need to get that back, and neither I nor anyone else can tell you how to do it. It's just part of being a man. I had someone take it from me (or convince me to give it up) a while ago, and it's been hard rebuilding it, but if you spend your life unsure whether you have anything worth offering a woman then you're also unsure if you have anything to offer the world at large. And that's a much more serious problem.

Society does a good job of making men circus lions, and we forget that the lion tamer with his little whip isn't a real threat. We all suffer from this, whether it's women or our job or our finances or whatever. We forget that we are the beginning and the end of our world, and we control our own destiny in a way that no one else ever can.

This isn't to say that you can ever remove fear. Fear of failure, fear of inadequacy, fear of rejection or reproach. That will always be there. But you have to learn to cope with it. The best description I have heard is that it is like a pebble in your shoe. It's there. It's irritating. But you just do your best to ignore it and you keep running.

So if nothing else, take this as an oppurtunity to look at yourself. Why do you lack your fangs? Are your confidence issues just with women or are they rooted at a much deeper level. If so, look to the lion tamers in your life, and regain your ego. Tear their throats out. You and you alone are the master of your domain.


PS I don't know why I went on with this whole Lion Tamer metaphor. I couldn't stop thinking of that old Monty Python skit. Totally wrecked the strength of the imagery in my mind.[/QUOTE]

This deserves the first rep I'll give on the forums... I wanted to rep all of you, advice givers, when this story is over but... wow. but, does the first part mean I can't try to be friends with her? Is friendship impossible if I have liked her and she has turned me down? I've tried it once before, but she moved and I never got over it, so I don't know if a friendship would have been possible...

Edit: Chibi's post, while shorter, is also nice.

It depends. Most guys I know can't get past liking/wanting to do a girl and just be friends. If you can, bravo, but sounds like a lot of pain and frustration for you. I say be casual acquaintances and move on. Maybe someday you will re-develop your friendship, but for now you probably need to give her space and give your heart some space as well.

I would totally pos rep you, Necronic but I can't u_u
Much truth in your words.

*simbolic pos rep*

Necronic said:

Men are predators. Predators hunt alone.

Click to expand...

your advice sucks, Necro.

If you can really be friends with her, fine. But you probably won't and you will actually be waiting for her to fall for you or something. That situation is very bad and will only bring resentment towards her. You've seen it happen.

Anyway, for now, telling her that you'll need some time to adjust is the right thing to do. You can sort out the details later.

Necronic said:

Men are predators. Predators hunt alone. It's not done by committee, its not done with secret agents, its not done with negotiators. The only time predators work together is to take down a herd. But they should be able to do it themselves. It's what seperates them from scavengers. Scavengers just go after the women that are left broken and limping after some predator had its way with her, then goes in for it's own piece.

Click to expand...

FUCK YES! NOW GO TACKLE THAT GAZELLE MOTHER FUCKER!

YOU SUCK!

But yeah, you got me with that one (or those ones.) Bastard.

edit: Targeted at .Amy. For your breaking of my metaphor, there will be a reconing.

Edit2: Also, I agree with Espy. I have to disagree with Ame though, nothing is ever over. But it's anti-intellectual in a way. You have to really think it's over for it not to be.

Necronic;411200][QUOTE=Silver Jelly;411131][QUOTE=Necronic said:

Men are predators. Predators hunt alone. It's not done by committee, its not done with secret agents, its not done with negotiators. The only time predators work together is to take down a herd. But they should be able to do it themselves. It's what seperates them from scavengers. Scavengers just go after the women that are left broken and limping after some predator had its way with her, then goes in for it's own piece.

Click to expand...

What the fuck am I then, seeing I haven't done any of the things you say? A herbivore?[/QUOTE]

If you tell her all this stuff and are then shot down and you hang around as a friend, then you are a scavenger. You'll sit there waiting for her to end whatever relationship she is in and hope that she'll finally see you as the cool guy you are. It's a trap that too many men fall into these days, and trust me on this: women love it. They either love the ego boost they get from a guy that's always attracted to them, or they love the fact that they have a guy friend that is always bending over backwards for them, being basically the best friend that anyone could ever ask for. But at the end of the day they go to bed with someone else.

But right now you aren't a herbivore, you're a man who has lost his fangs. Without a sense of self-confidence and presence you won't meet many women that are worth your time. You need to get that back, and neither I nor anyone else can tell you how to do it. It's just part of being a man. I had someone take it from me (or convince me to give it up) a while ago, and it's been hard rebuilding it, but if you spend your life unsure whether you have anything worth offering a woman then you're also unsure if you have anything to offer the world at large. And that's a much more serious problem.

Society does a good job of making men circus lions, and we forget that the lion tamer with his little whip isn't a real threat. We all suffer from this, whether it's women or our job or our finances or whatever. We forget that we are the beginning and the end of our world, and we control our own destiny in a way that no one else ever can.

This isn't to say that you can ever remove fear. Fear of failure, fear of inadequacy, fear of rejection or reproach. That will always be there. But you have to learn to cope with it. The best description I have heard is that it is like a pebble in your shoe. It's there. It's irritating. But you just do your best to ignore it and you keep running.

So if nothing else, take this as an oppurtunity to look at yourself. Why do you lack your fangs? Are your confidence issues just with women or are they rooted at a much deeper level. If so, look to the lion tamers in your life, and regain your ego. Tear their throats out. You and you alone are the master of your domain.


PS I don't know why I went on with this whole Lion Tamer metaphor. I couldn't stop thinking of that old Monty Python skit. Totally wrecked the strength of the imagery in my mind.[/QUOTE]

I fucking love you.

Damn Necronic! I think you need to be a motivational speaker. I'm ready to be a "predator" and I'm not even a guy!!

Wasabi, why don't you have a seat right over there.

Necronic said:

YOU SUCK!

But yeah, you got me with that one (or those ones.) Bastard.

edit: Targeted at .Amy. For your breaking of my metaphor, there will be a reconing.

Edit2: Also, I agree with Espy. I have to disagree with Ame though, nothing is ever over. But it's anti-intellectual in a way. You have to really think it's over for it not to be.

Click to expand...

haha, the rest of your advice was awesome, but you know me, E, I couldn't let that go

---------- Post added at 03:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 PM ----------

Baerdog said:

Wasabi, why don't you have a seat right over there.

Click to expand...

AHAHAHAaaaahaha

Baerdog said:

Wasabi, why don't you have a seat right over there.

Click to expand...

I swear I only came here because I thought this was a kid in trouble! I wanted to help! With copious amounts of alcohol and a massage.

:lol:

[

Necronic;411200][QUOTE=Silver Jelly;411131][QUOTE=Necronic said:

Men are predators. Predators hunt alone. It's not done by committee, its not done with secret agents, its not done with negotiators. The only time predators work together is to take down a herd. But they should be able to do it themselves. It's what seperates them from scavengers. Scavengers just go after the women that are left broken and limping after some predator had its way with her, then goes in for it's own piece.

Click to expand...

What the fuck am I then, seeing I haven't done any of the things you say? A herbivore?[/QUOTE]

If you tell her all this stuff and are then shot down and you hang around as a friend, then you are a scavenger. You'll sit there waiting for her to end whatever relationship she is in and hope that she'll finally see you as the cool guy you are. It's a trap that too many men fall into these days, and trust me on this: women love it. They either love the ego boost they get from a guy that's always attracted to them, or they love the fact that they have a guy friend that is always bending over backwards for them, being basically the best friend that anyone could ever ask for. But at the end of the day they go to bed with someone else.

But right now you aren't a herbivore, you're a man who has lost his fangs. Without a sense of self-confidence and presence you won't meet many women that are worth your time. You need to get that back, and neither I nor anyone else can tell you how to do it. It's just part of being a man. I had someone take it from me (or convince me to give it up) a while ago, and it's been hard rebuilding it, but if you spend your life unsure whether you have anything worth offering a woman then you're also unsure if you have anything to offer the world at large. And that's a much more serious problem.

Society does a good job of making men circus lions, and we forget that the lion tamer with his little whip isn't a real threat. We all suffer from this, whether it's women or our job or our finances or whatever. We forget that we are the beginning and the end of our world, and we control our own destiny in a way that no one else ever can.

This isn't to say that you can ever remove fear. Fear of failure, fear of inadequacy, fear of rejection or reproach. That will always be there. But you have to learn to cope with it. The best description I have heard is that it is like a pebble in your shoe. It's there. It's irritating. But you just do your best to ignore it and you keep running.

So if nothing else, take this as an oppurtunity to look at yourself. Why do you lack your fangs? Are your confidence issues just with women or are they rooted at a much deeper level. If so, look to the lion tamers in your life, and regain your ego. Tear their throats out. You and you alone are the master of your domain.


PS I don't know why I went on with this whole Lion Tamer metaphor. I couldn't stop thinking of that old Monty Python skit. Totally wrecked the strength of the imagery in my mind.[/QUOTE]

Necronic, you sir are my personal fucking motivator. Courage Wolf ain't got SHIT on you.

Manly tears are being shed at the sheer awesomeness being expounded here.

So something like this?

Necronic's Guys-Only "Be a Predator" Seminar: Coming to a community center near you!

Sounds like a win-win to me.

Fact: Girls LOVE to be eaten

Heeheeheeeeeee :heh:

@Necro: awesome post

@SJ: you can be friends with her but it is going to be harder on you since you have feelings for her. If you can push that aside and still be her friend, then it is cool. I have a couple friends that I would love to have dated, but I have move on and still friends with them. IT was hard at first, but it does get easier.

Now if you are hoping to get to the next step with her by being her friend after these events, I would say just be a friend but don't really pursue her. I would say don't wait on her either. I know it sounds cruel, but that might be best for you. Again, we are just internet folks, and ultimately it is up to you how you want to handle this.

I have a friend who is totally in love with a guy. She finally had to break up with him cause he was just "keeping her around" but never really put in serious commitment. (i.e. everything has higher priority than her) and she finally saw this and had to break it off. She still loves him but he doesn't feel the same way with her. It is a painful one for her and saddens me to see her get hurt like this ) but sometimes you gotta do something now or get more hurt later down the road.

I wish you luck man

.Amy. said:

Click to expand...

I love Chuck Palahniuk's views on the demasculinization of society. But he does consider people that take Fight Club to heart, to be complete idiots.

What if they just find it to be one awesome movie they love to watch again and again just cause of its awesomeness?

Calleja said:

What if they just find it to be one awesome movie they love to watch again and again just cause of its awesomeness?

Click to expand...

Just as long as you and 10 friends don't start beating the crap out of each other for sh!ts and giggles. Then forming a terror cell...

I'd consider your point, not taking the views on the demasculinization of society too far.

You know what's a clear sign of demasculinization? Using symbols instead of letters in curse words.

sixpackshaker;411677][QUOTE=Calleja said:

What if they just find it to be one awesome movie they love to watch again and again just cause of its awesomeness?

Click to expand...

Just as long as you and 10 friends don't start beating the crap out of each other for sh!ts and giggles. Then forming a terror cell...

I'd consider your point, not taking the views on the demasculinization of society too far.[/QUOTE]

Exactly what Palahniuk argues in regards to 'idiots'. But it is interesting to note how far demasculinization has come that men feel the need to emulate the experiences of the book/movie.

The demasculinzation I'm talking about is how you can't tell a girl she has a nice ass anymore without getting a lawsuit slapped on your own. The best examples of it are found in chick flick bullshit movies, where not only men are deballed, but overall relationships revolve around the needs of the woman instead of being a mutual union.

I don't emulate the movie, I just love it.


Sliiiiiide

Chazwozel said:

The demasculinzation I'm talking about is how you can't tell a girl she has a nice ass anymore without getting a lawsuit slapped on your own.

Click to expand...

How is this de-masculinzation? Sounds like de-asshole-ing to me.

Well... a girl could tell you you have a nice ass without repercussions pretty much, couldn't she? Isn't that a bit of a double moral?

Life isn't fair? Life is a bitch? I dunno man. You choose.

But for the record I'm not condoning that either, I don't choose what people find offensive in general.

Calleja said:

Well... a girl could tell you you have a nice ass without repercussions pretty much, couldn't she? Isn't that a bit of a double moral?

Click to expand...

It is a double standard, yes. But it's both men and women's fault.

Women have felt like they have to fight to express themselves sexually. We've been made the scapegoat when it comes to sin and STDs, so now that we feel sexually liberated, many express this by acting... well... like men, I suppose. Making more of our private thoughts known and possibly expressing some crude thoughts. It's not our fault that men react positively to it.

For the record, if a guy's not comfortable being spoken to in a certain way, I think he has the right to say that without feeling like a wuss or being asked if he's gay.

Espy;411715][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:

The demasculinzation I'm talking about is how you can't tell a girl she has a nice ass anymore without getting a lawsuit slapped on your own.

Click to expand...

How is this de-masculinzation? Sounds like de-asshole-ing to me.[/QUOTE]


Agreed. Fight Club is pretty essential in that it brings *up* the question of masculinity in a unisex society, but it doesn't really offer so much of a solution. Tyler Durden, the primal id, is an asshole. Marla Singer doesn't offer much help either, although towards the end he is able to reconcile the fear and anger towards the female body.

Here's the heart of it all, the end of the book.

FightClub said:

I've met God across his long walnut desk with his diplomas hanging on the wall behind him, and God asks me, "Why?" Why did I cause so much pain? Didn't I realize that each of us is a sacred, unique snowflake of special unique specialness? Can't I see how we're all manifestations of love? I look at God behind his desk, taking notes on a pad, but God's got this all wrong. We are not special. We are not crap or trash, either. We just are. We just are, and what happens just happens. And God says, "No, that's not right." Yeah. Well. Whatever. You can't teach God anything.

Click to expand...

The book digs its teeth into a Gen X generation raised by single mothers and television sets. It's quite clear Palahniuk doesn't really have much of an answer of where that generation, and subsequent generations, are to go. But he DOES have a few ideas on what we SHOULDN'T do, which includes Tyler Durden's id machismo ass-slapping revolutionary.

There's a middle ground of existential acceptance. The total deconstruction of your life isn't going to find you salvation. BUT, understanding your place as a male in contemporary society can set you on the right track.

---------- Post added at 05:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 PM ----------

Calleja said:

Well... a girl could tell you you have a nice ass without repercussions pretty much, couldn't she? Isn't that a bit of a double moral?

Click to expand...

The deconstruction of these things are always soooo much more than a simple yes or no answer. Society is a complicated thing. And most of it stems from societal objectification. When a woman tells a man he has a nice ass, I bet you to the man that reinforces a dominant "hunter" trait in him that, when applied vice versa, could be much more likely to be considered offensive. If a woman doesn't find that offensive, awesome. If a man does, well shit, he should speak up, because that's not okay.

Juski that is some brilliant writing right there. I am impressed. Give that man a medal. A medal made of REP.

Gilman Chatsworth;411760][QUOTE=Espy;411715][QUOTE=Chazwozel said:

The demasculinzation I'm talking about is how you can't tell a girl she has a nice ass anymore without getting a lawsuit slapped on your own.

Click to expand...

How is this de-masculinzation? Sounds like de-asshole-ing to me.[/QUOTE]


Agreed. Fight Club is pretty essential in that it brings *up* the question of masculinity in a unisex society, but it doesn't really offer so much of a solution. Tyler Durden, the primal id, is an asshole. Marla Singer doesn't offer much help either, although towards the end he is able to reconcile the fear and anger towards the female body.

Here's the heart of it all, the end of the book.

FightClub said:

I've met God across his long walnut desk with his diplomas hanging on the wall behind him, and God asks me, "Why?" Why did I cause so much pain? Didn't I realize that each of us is a sacred, unique snowflake of special unique specialness? Can't I see how we're all manifestations of love? I look at God behind his desk, taking notes on a pad, but God's got this all wrong. We are not special. We are not crap or trash, either. We just are. We just are, and what happens just happens. And God says, "No, that's not right." Yeah. Well. Whatever. You can't teach God anything.

Click to expand...

The book digs its teeth into a Gen X generation raised by single mothers and television sets. It's quite clear Palahniuk doesn't really have much of an answer of where that generation, and subsequent generations, are to go. But he DOES have a few ideas on what we SHOULDN'T do, which includes Tyler Durden's id machismo ass-slapping revolutionary.

There's a middle ground of existential acceptance. The total deconstruction of your life isn't going to find you salvation. BUT, understanding your place as a male in contemporary society can set you on the right track.

---------- Post added at 05:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:41 PM ----------

Calleja said:

Well... a girl could tell you you have a nice ass without repercussions pretty much, couldn't she? Isn't that a bit of a double moral?

Click to expand...

The deconstruction of these things are always soooo much more than a simple yes or no answer. Society is a complicated thing. And most of it stems from societal objectification. When a woman tells a man he has a nice ass, I bet you to the man that reinforces a dominant "hunter" trait in him that, when applied vice versa, could be much more likely to be considered offensive. If a woman doesn't find that offensive, awesome. If a man does, well shit, he should speak up, because that's not okay.[/QUOTE]

"For both excessive and insufficient exercise destroy one's strength, and both eating and drinking too much or too little destroy health, whereas the right quantity produces, increases or preserves it. So it is the same with temperance, courage and the other virtues... This much then, is clear: in all our conduct it is the mean that is to be commended."
Aristotle

When this thread is retired, it had better go into the hall of fame.

Isn't that where we sent your mom when she retired?

Espy said:

Juski that is some brilliant writing right there. I am impressed. Give that man a medal. A medal made of REP.

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There are only so many times I can show off my BA in Star Bucks Barista.

Espy said:

Juski that is some brilliant writing right there. I am impressed. Give that man a medal. A medal made of REP.

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Now the question is, is this eloquent drunken philosophy, or sober theatrical/literal rambling?

Either way, it is win.

Gilman Chatsworth;412131][QUOTE=Espy said:

Juski that is some brilliant writing right there. I am impressed. Give that man a medal. A medal made of REP.

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There are only so many times I can show off my BA in Star Bucks Barista.[/QUOTE]

Damn dude, I mean, you start showing up on time and I'm gonna make you a Shift Lead.

Can I get a job too, please?

Espy;412373][QUOTE=Gilman Chatsworth;412131][QUOTE=Espy said:

Juski that is some brilliant writing right there. I am impressed. Give that man a medal. A medal made of REP.

Click to expand...

There are only so many times I can show off my BA in Star Bucks Barista.[/QUOTE]

Damn dude, I mean, you start showing up on time and I'm gonna make you a Shift Lead.[/QUOTE]

BABA BOOSH!