Wishing for divorce often

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Anonymous

Anonymous

I have been married for a long time, and I feel lately like I want out. There just seems to be nothing for me in my relationship except the kids. And they still exist outside of the relationship. I get no attention from my wife whatsoever. To be clear, she's not bad to me, or mean to me. There are no real fights or arguments. But, hell, I'd take that over nothing, which is what we seem to have. We just seem to be roommates who share kids. I get no expression of love from her at all. She does things for me, but I don't want a servant. I'd rather have someone who never lifted a finger for me, but expressed love. I cannot tell you the last time she really kissed me. Years, maybe. I can barely recall a time she touched me voluntarily. Even during increasingly rare love-making, her arms are out to the side, and never around me. And then, it never feels like she really wants to do it. I've stopped approaching her about it, because frankly, she sounds like it's a concession, and that feels really uncomfortable to me.

To head off some suggestions, I have talked to her about this. In soft terms at first, and later in no uncertain terms. Many times now, and nothing ever changes. My wife has a tendency to simply say yes during a discussion, and there's never any, well, discussion. There's me talking and her just saying yes. She tells me everything is fine to her. I've offered to leave, and that's the only time she's ever reacted, just to get me to stay. Honestly, it feels more like my leaving would be bad because it would damage her standing more than it would bother her personally.

I'm at the age where I'm still young, but old enough to feel life creeping on. And lately I just don't want to be trapped forever like this in what feels like a loveless marriage. I've tried so many things. I've tried gushing attention on her. One of her complaints when I do finally get her to say anything is that she's busy, so I've tried doing everything, and she will make more work for herself. If I clean the whole house, she'll go scrub something that hasn't been touched in years, then complain that she has no time. And if I call it a complaint, she swears it's "just a statement of fact, not a complaint", which has to be the most irritating sentence ever uttered, because what else is the definition of a complaint? On top of all that, the busy thing just directly and in no uncertain terms tells me exactly where I sit on the totem pole. "I can't because I have to do this." Okay, well you just told me that that is more important than me.

I lack the courage to ask for a way out myself, and I don't think she'd let me go easily. She's the queen of pragmatism, and if nothing else, I'm a wallet. I hate to talk that way, but I cannot for the life of me think what she's getting out of this if she has held me beyond arm's length for years.

Sorry for the wall of text.
 
Having kids complicates matters, because they won't see your divorce is as the dissolution of an already dead relationship, they'll see it as a fragmentation of their stable home life. And there's a very good chance you will be financially destroyed in the divorce - alimony and child support aren't cheap.

Have you suggested going to a marriage counselor and get some of these thoughts out in a neutral environment? Regarding the sex, there might be medical reasons for her lack of interest.

Marriage is a partnership - if at least one member isn't willing to put the work into maintaining it, it will fail.

So my advice is to take steps to try and salvage your marriage together - but if she goes on acting like everything's fine and nothing needs to change, divorce may wind up being the better option in the long term. Child support, weekend visits, and being single again are a marked sight better than letting it fester to the point of violence.
 

Cajungal

Staff member
Man...No words. It sounds like you're really trying whatever you can think of. I wish you and your wife the best.
 
Null's advice is probably wiser, or at least less-selfish, than mine; but from your post it sounds like you've tried everything short of counseling already, and she doesn't sound like she cares enough about the relationship to go to counseling. You could try a couple of counseling sessions on your own, for some possible support in having different words and phrases to use to approach the subject with your wife; but honestly, it sounds like it may be time to put a divorce lawyer on retainer, or at least start looking around for good ones.
 
...I cannot for the life of me think what she's getting out of this...
The question for you is: what are you getting out of this since you are choosing to stay?

In case your answer involves your children and the effects of divorce, staying in a marriage which lacks intimacy and warmth is going to effect your kids, too. Your relationship with your wife is setting an example for their relationship ideals later in life (I don't know how old your kids are, so I am assuming they are school age rather than infants or young adults).
 
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Anonymous

Anonymous

Not the same anonymous as the OP but this could be my thread as well. I don't have an answer for you or I'd have an answer for me as well.
 
An affair would make you feel better in the meantime, but will just give her more leverage during the inevitable divorce.
 
You pretty much describe my previous marriage. Which is why it is my previous one.

It had pretty much devolved into me being the bill-payer, and that was my only real connection to my spouse by the end. We had slowed to having sex three times a year or less. At the very end, we went like 8 months without, because I got tired of feeling like I was imposing on her because she would only begrudgingly oblige when we did do the deed. She developed a ton of interests that were solitary and didn't include me, and when we tried to work on "together time", what she really wanted to do was just have me sit in when she was enjoying her hobbies, rather than us doing something different and mutually enjoyable.

I put up with it for years. And like you, we had talked about it. Numerous times. For years.

We had a child together, and I had concerns about how it would affect him. But in the end, the dissolution was pretty much good for everyone. Sure, she lost the gravy train, so she couldn't use her income to fly all over the country several times a year to conventions, but now she has the freedom to do what she wants without having to worry about my involvement, I had the freedom to meet my current wife (and we're still going strong after a couple years dating followed by our 5th wedding anniversary coming up in a couple weeks). And it was good for our son--once I got custody and she realized that he wouldn't always be around, she stopped taking him for granted and is very involved with him.

Sometimes, splitting up can be for the best.
 

BananaHands

Staff member
If you're unhappy and she's refusing to work with you - then maybe you should get out of it before you wake up 15 years from now wishing you had the chance to get out before you were too late.
 
I mean, honestly, there weren't any kids involved in my first marriage (for which I am eternally thankful), and we had some issues outside of the ones you've mentioned (including the involvement of lovers), and all it did was wind up being an incredibly resentful relationship. The two of us never spoke after she went home to her parents and they came to get her belongings out of our rental house. She didn't show up to the divorce hearing (which was good for her, considering some of the claims she was attempting to make on social media), and I never looked back.
 
She does things for me, but I don't want a servant. I'd rather have someone who never lifted a finger for me, but expressed love.
I can understand some of your frustration, can't say that any marriage that has lasted for years doesn't have it, but I think that we need to focus a little on this statement. This is just throwing stuff against the wall, but could it apply?

Could her doing things for you be her way of trying to find that way that best works for her to express herself to you? Could your reaction, which seems to be a little dismissive (and just could be limits of typing), be driving a little wedge deeper?

My wife and I went though a patch kind of like this, some frustration, some not sure of where we were going, some just being afraid of what lies ahead. We've been married for over 26 years now, and closer than we were 10 years back. It's not easy, people are different, and sometimes the same experiences affect each partner in a differing ways. Counseling is a good idea, a third party to talk to, together and separately.
 
How old are these kids? I'll admit, it's never easy when they're so young.

The first year was difficult but this last year is another level of difficult. Heck, most of the time I'm burnt out of 6 AM to 8 PM, sex rarely is even on my mind these days.

Unless it's during the weekends, if I get to sleep till 7ish I wake up with an oak tree in my pants.

I feel for you, have you guys considered the rapy?
 

GasBandit

Staff member
I wish I had something helpful to say in this thread. If I were in your shoes, I think I'd insist on trying counseling, and go from there. If it makes progress, then great... if not at least it'll be 3rd party corroboration in splitting up.
 
What @Sparhawk says raises a good point; people have different ways of expressing emotions/feelings/love, and don't always necessarily give the same way they want to receive - I tend to throw money at my girlfriend (no, not literally :p), as a way of showing how much I care, but I'd rather she spend time with me than buy me stuff. Some people write poetry, some give gifts, some do little things for each other, some try to make huge sacrifices, some want physical attention (not necessarily referring to sex- I know I find hugs/massages/petting/snuggling to be a huge factor in feeling loved while some people really don't care - though sex can and often is an expression in this vein as well). Perhaps she really does care for you, but there's problems with incompatible ways of showing that love, not knowing how to express yourself, etc. Counseling could certainly help in such a case.
I'm not saying this is the case - in some cases, love can just sort of fade away and leave nothing more than 'roommates with benefits' or 'roommates and a kid and a loan and whatever we have to stay together for'. Such marriages can work just fine - love as a prime reason for marriage is a fairly modern thought, all in all. A mutual fondness, friendship and willingness to work together and make the best of it was pretty much all most people were striving for - and you were often lucky to find it. I know I know quite a few couples like that - especially of the older or more conservative variety, who don't really look at divorce as an option. Divorce can be a way of running from the challenge of making it work... Or a way of salvaging what's left of both of your lives, instead of wasting them together - I definitely can't tell from over here.
While I'm not sure whether or not it's said in jest (I'm tired, sorry), @MindDetective also brings up a point. I do actually know a couple where one partner lost all interest in sex (admittedly, in this case, after a hysterectomy), and she was perfectly OK with her husband going to prostitutes and/or having one night stands - as long as he didn't get too attached to any one in particular, and he still loved her, she didn't care where he got his rocks off - it just eased a burden on her, as she didn't have to do that anymore. Obviously, not everyone would feel or think that way, I don't know your wife/situation.
 
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Anonymous

Anonymous

I can understand some of your frustration, can't say that any marriage that has lasted for years doesn't have it, but I think that we need to focus a little on this statement. This is just throwing stuff against the wall, but could it apply?

Could her doing things for you be her way of trying to find that way that best works for her to express herself to you? Could your reaction, which seems to be a little dismissive (and just could be limits of typing), be driving a little wedge deeper?

My wife and I went though a patch kind of like this, some frustration, some not sure of where we were going, some just being afraid of what lies ahead. We've been married for over 26 years now, and closer than we were 10 years back. It's not easy, people are different, and sometimes the same experiences affect each partner in a differing ways. Counseling is a good idea, a third party to talk to, together and separately.
I don't dismiss what she does for me. I try to regularly express my gratitude. I definitely recognize that she's expressing herself through these things she does, but it feels more like an expression of obligation than an expression of love. That's hard to convince you of I know, but that's my feeling. I guess the point of bringing it up at all was that I would rather her not feel obligated to do things for me in lieu of emotional expression.
 
I get no expression of love from her at all. ... I'd rather have someone who never lifted a finger for me, but expressed love.
I definitely recognize that she's expressing herself through these things she does, but it feels more like an expression of obligation than an expression of love.
Just a few thoughts:

Following through on a commitment made in a marriage ceremony years later when the puppy love is gone is most certainly an expression of love.

You can rekindle romance. The fact that you are already together and have each other's attention for a portion of the day every day gives you something to work with. Have dinner together every single day. Use that time to see how she's doing. Don't try to fix anything, just listen and encourage her to talk.

Second, consider "The five love languages" - I haven't read it, but from what I've read about it, and from what you're saying, it seems like the book will have some significant insight into how to reconnect with your partner when you two obviously have different concepts of what constitutes love and expressions of love.

Lastly, she might not be willing to work on your marriage, but there's a lot you can do if you want to.

But you have to want to.
 
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Anonymous

Anonymous

We do have dinner together as a family every day. We have conversations about regular things all the time. I know her life, and she knows mine. But I can do those same things with a friend and a roommate. That's the thing. I don't hate her, and I'm certain she doesn't hate me. But I'm also not interested in spending the rest of my life with a roomie and a pal. That's a huge deal for me. We've been married nearly 20 years, so I know the puppy love is gone. We are well beyond those years. It's not romance I want--it's love.

I know I'm no innocent, and you're only getting my side. But as selfish as this sounds, she's the one who needs to read your second paragraph, not me. I do constantly ask her about her life. She's the one who shows little interest in mine. I come after the kids, after work, after sleep. Then, if there's any time left at all, I get it, and it's usually given visibly begrudgingly. And again, I have mentioned this many times over the years now, and all I ever get is "I'll change it", which bugs me, because I don't want a concession. I want a conversation. Which we never have.
 
Your situation scares me a lot about marriage. My wife and I have been married for 5 yrs, and I can see other priorities creeping in that put something else ahead of each other. Left unchecked, I could see it ending up the same way. We're both very intentional now so hopefully it was remain good. Marriage is challenging. Two selfish people (all people are selfish) wanting the same thing in different ways is going to cause tension and lead to resentment.

Not to knock you down Anon, but it sounds like you already resent your wife, and that you are letting that cloud your judgement. Love takes different forms and has different temperatures (from boiling passion to just warm). I'd say your wife loves you, but she isn't doing so in a way that makes you feel loved and wanted. That's got to hurt. I don't feel qualified to give you advice since I am only 5 yrs into my marriage. Perhaps you know some older couple (not family) that could be a mentor or at least give you some perspective. It honestly sounds like a normal progression of a relationship when one doesn't intentionally try to show love for their spouse. I'd say there is hope for a turn-around. You are going to have to be that pivot if you are seeing the problem and she doesn't. It will be up to you to help her see the light. I don't know how to do that.

Best of luck. Whatever is done protect those kiddos.
 
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Anonymous

Anonymous

A couple with whom we are friends went through something similar. The wife posted an article on Facebook which she said helped her, but frankly I found it almost disturbing. It was a married professional woman talking about how she just waited it out, and how she tried to redirect it every time her husband brought it up, and eventually he stopped and went back to the way things were. Shudder. That's what you do to kids because you are training them as part of our culture. It's not what you do to an adult. I told my friend that article wasn't about saving a marriage, it was about breaking a horse. The man stopped talking about it because he gave up and conceded that there was nothing he could do. He went back to the way things were--which clearly made him unhappy--because he had no other choice. What amazed me was all the likes and shares this article had. I bring it up, because my wife does use this tactic with our kids, and honestly I think it's why she doesn't talk back to me. She wants me to tucker myself out like a baby. It is so frustrating because so many of the times I try to broach the topic, she literally says nothing back at all. I don't even know what to do with that.

I don't resent her. I'm sorry if I've given that impression. I really don't.
 

Cajungal

Staff member
It's so frustrating to hit a brick wall with someone. That's what Jake's family is like, and it's why their relationship isn't great. To have no feedback except, "It will change" or "it doesn't need to change" is very hard to live with long term. Again, I don't know what else to say... just sympathizing. It sounds like you're in a very lonely place right now, and I really hope things get better.
 
Kati and I have been married now for almost 10 years, and the OP sounds disturbingly similar to discussions we've been having lately thanks to our period of enforced separation*. As the person on the other side of the discussion (except for the money part), I will maintain that my love has not receded, nor have I reason to believe that hers has, either. Any intimacy is constrained (again, we're literally too distant at the moment), and I believe this to be more a matter of lack of confirmation/reassurance than anything else. As time goes on and you become more and more comfortable with another person, it becomes harder to maintain that "more than just a roommate/POSSLQ" feeling, and I have no solid advice for combatting that yet. I'm sure we'll discover something profound within the next 5-10 years, but that's probably not an acceptable timeframe for your situation.

Right now the only advice I have is to be more inviting, to offer to involve her in more of your doings, but as a partner, not a spectator or student. You're not bringing her along as a helper nor as a boss, you're involving her as a teammate. Also, don't underestimate the power of "noncommittal" physical contact as an indicator of a level of acceptance. And by "noncommittal," I mean avoid the "we are touching therefore one of us must want to have sex" mentality. The automatic reaction in public is to apologize for unintentional physical contact of any kind, but physical contact between the two of you (assuming it's not collision-based) should be accepted as normal and usual, and should even be encouraged even if it is not acknowledged.

I hope my point comes across. I was interrupted, like, 80 times while I was typing this, but I tried hard to not screw it up.

--Patrick
*I'm 2500mi away on assignment for work for 4-1/2 months, for those who don't know.
 
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Anonymous

Anonymous

This is semi-random, but one of the things that keeps me from seriously approaching divorce is that I really like my in-laws. In a lot of ways, I'm closer to them than I am to my own parents.
 

BananaHands

Staff member
Isn't there a forum-poster that has an open marriage here? That could be something to add some sort of electricity to the marriage.
 
Isn't there a forum-poster that has an open marriage here? That could be something to add some sort of electricity to the marriage.
Generally speaking, if the marriage is already troubled, that's not going to fix it, it's just going to make the breakup even messier. You need a stable, trusting relationship to even think about other parties in on, and even then, it's very tricky. Like, I'm not part of the relationship between the woman I'm seeing and her husband. Every so often she just takes a day, we meet up, hang out, go somewhere to eat, screw, and she goes back home.

There was a member of the Krypton Krew way back when who joined a 4-way marriage with her husband - ie she, her husband, the other wife, and the other husband, were a foursome, since they were all "polyamorous". Lasted 2 years before basically the parties split up with swapped partners.
 

fade

Staff member
I know quite a few very happy long term poly relationships. Not suggesting that here or anything.
 
I know quite a few very happy long term poly relationships. Not suggesting that here or anything.
Yeah, it's not for everyone. I only mentioned it because the people in question thought it would fix things and instead it made the problems more apparent.
 
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Anonymous

Anonymous

Another thing I forgot to mention is that my wife has taken to going to bed really early. Like 8:30-9pm. Often before my oldest kid goes to bed. A lot of nights, I don't even have the chance to talk to her because she's out by the time we could talk.
 
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