I like how they insinuate that scholars are liberal, and any liberal message in the bible had to have been put there by a liberal, so anything that we disagree with will be redacted. They will do all of this with out looking at any of the source material.
Gas Bandit's Political Thread V: The Vampire Likes Bats
- Thread starter GasBandit
- Start date
S
Steven Soderburgin
holy fuck i hate phyllis schlalfly
I
Iaculus
My word. That really is one for the ages.
North_Ranger
Staff member
I wonder if it's possible to send a gift card for a surprise lobotomy...?
North_Ranger
Staff member
But stupid.
Duh, he's in Congress.
GasBandit
Staff member
Alright, I'm still under the weather, but time for me to start doing my duty again...
Rush Limbaugh taken to hospital suffering from chest pains.
Bruce Schneier: Is aviation security mostly for show?
Is Fox News going to disappear from your cable line-up?
I don't think we've talked about the 9th Circuit lately...now police can be sued for tasing.
TSA threatens bloggers for disclosing security directive after underwear bomber incident.
Christopher Hitchens: "Why do we fail to detect or defeat the guilty, and why do we do so well at collective punishment of the innocent?"
What health care reform will mean for you, according to Newsweek.
Liberals have a field day over Karl Rove's second divorce.
Do you know a budding Libertarian? They can get college money for writing an essay on The Fountainhead.
Rush Limbaugh taken to hospital suffering from chest pains.
Bruce Schneier: Is aviation security mostly for show?
Is Fox News going to disappear from your cable line-up?
I don't think we've talked about the 9th Circuit lately...now police can be sued for tasing.
TSA threatens bloggers for disclosing security directive after underwear bomber incident.
Christopher Hitchens: "Why do we fail to detect or defeat the guilty, and why do we do so well at collective punishment of the innocent?"
What health care reform will mean for you, according to Newsweek.
Liberals have a field day over Karl Rove's second divorce.
Do you know a budding Libertarian? They can get college money for writing an essay on The Fountainhead.
Get well soon!
Yes.
That article is missing pertinent info (which may not be available publicly) about Time Warner's viewer behavior. $1/subscriber may or may not be excessive. That said, the Time Warner guy makes a good point about Fox's own valuation of their content and he may not be wrong about their motives. Which wouldn't necessarily be wrong, but it's not likely to make Time Warner want to play ball.
Couldn't they always be sued for excessive force? What the court decision seems to do is set a legal precedent on where the taser falls in that category.
I don't know what's in a TSA security directive, but the TSA in general needs more public oversight. I think this is the key quote from that article:
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WolfOfOdin
The Fountainhead? Dear god man, Ayn Rand hated Libertarians. She called you the far left of the right. If you've danced into pure Objectivist thought, call yourself that and get to stomping on the parasites.
I
Iaculus
Hey, they never said it had to be a complimentary essay...
This ruling was incorrectly handed down. Should we wait for the man who has EXITED HIS VEHICLE during a traffic stop and started shouting gibberish and hitting things to actually attempt to kill the officer before we attempt to restrain him?
This ruling was incorrectly handed down. Should we wait for the man who has EXITED HIS VEHICLE during a traffic stop and started shouting gibberish and hitting things to actually attempt to kill the officer before we attempt to restrain him?[/QUOTE]
It's a reaction to the increasingly common occurrence of police using tasers on any one who may become "hostile"... instead of using their training to talk someone down, they use a Taser because it is safer for the officer. Too bad they are supposed to be accountable to the tax payers, who don't enjoy being tased for routine traffic stops.
K
Kitty Sinatra
This ruling was incorrectly handed down. Should we wait for the man who has EXITED HIS VEHICLE during a traffic stop and started shouting gibberish and hitting things to actually attempt to kill the officer before we attempt to restrain him?[/QUOTE]
We'll find out when the lawsuit gets settled. Right now, the ruling just said the lawsuit can go ahead. There's no judgment on the officer's behaviour yet.
If you're unwilling to even allow the possibility the officer fucked up, I'm gonna have to set LeQuack on you.
GasBandit
Staff member
What does our Secretary of State Hillary Clinton have to say about this airline bombing attempt? Not much.
It's 2010 .. election year. Democrat recruits are heading for the exits, sensing defeat.
Speaking of defecting Dems .. a Democrat House member switched to the Republican Party because of the Democrat healthcare plan.
The Mayo Clinic in Arizona has stopped accepting Medicare patients as of January 1st because the government pays too little.
In case you have forgotten, the Senate voted to increase our debt ceiling to $12.4 trillion.
How much money will we, the taxpayers, lose due to our support of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? I'll give you a hint ... hundreds of billions.
Meanwhile, the CEOs of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could get paid as much as $6 million for 2009.
More than 40,000 new laws go into effect in 2010. More government. More bureaucracy. Less freedom.
The only thing more pathetic than the failure of Barack Obama's stimulus plan is the lack of media reporting on the failing stimulus plan. Timothy Geithner says to expect "positive job growth" by spring.
The House passed financial reform legislation in December, but do you really know what is in it? How about a $4 trillion gift to bankers, courtesy of Barney Frank.
Another $3.8 billion of your tax dollars will be injected into GMAC to help cover mortgage losses.
The next battle in Congress will be cap-and-trade legislation .. and it looks like it will be just as tough to pass as healthcare reform.
Mark your calendars. This is the last year before the government reinstates the estate tax. Cheaper to die in 2010.
Washington's "Ten Most Wanted Corrupt Politicians" for 2009.
The Politico has a list of 25 politicians to watch in 2010, including Marco Rubio.
Pretty much nobody is happy with Obama's first year.
It's 2010 .. election year. Democrat recruits are heading for the exits, sensing defeat.
Speaking of defecting Dems .. a Democrat House member switched to the Republican Party because of the Democrat healthcare plan.
The Mayo Clinic in Arizona has stopped accepting Medicare patients as of January 1st because the government pays too little.
In case you have forgotten, the Senate voted to increase our debt ceiling to $12.4 trillion.
How much money will we, the taxpayers, lose due to our support of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? I'll give you a hint ... hundreds of billions.
Meanwhile, the CEOs of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could get paid as much as $6 million for 2009.
More than 40,000 new laws go into effect in 2010. More government. More bureaucracy. Less freedom.
The only thing more pathetic than the failure of Barack Obama's stimulus plan is the lack of media reporting on the failing stimulus plan. Timothy Geithner says to expect "positive job growth" by spring.
The House passed financial reform legislation in December, but do you really know what is in it? How about a $4 trillion gift to bankers, courtesy of Barney Frank.
Another $3.8 billion of your tax dollars will be injected into GMAC to help cover mortgage losses.
The next battle in Congress will be cap-and-trade legislation .. and it looks like it will be just as tough to pass as healthcare reform.
Mark your calendars. This is the last year before the government reinstates the estate tax. Cheaper to die in 2010.
Washington's "Ten Most Wanted Corrupt Politicians" for 2009.
The Politico has a list of 25 politicians to watch in 2010, including Marco Rubio.
Pretty much nobody is happy with Obama's first year.
W
WolfOfOdin
The estate tax? Yes...poor Muffy and Arthur must settle for only a few million each when daddums kicks the bucket, the horror...the horror.
You? No. Society? Sure. Big difference there.
W
WolfOfOdin
I don't plan to die, Corvar 
GasBandit
Staff member
You kinda miss the point of the article... it's pushing the "kill off the 'rents this year, because next year you'll lose 50% to taxes if you do it."
But by all means, let's completely sidestep the issue of re-taxing money that has already been taxed at least once (be it income, sales, capital gains, whatever) and taxing it AGAIN because someone wanted to provide for their children. That is, after all, the most heinous of sins, is it not? Doing well and wanting to pass on the wealth you've worked to achieve to your children?
Plus, on top of all that, there's many who think the federal government will wait until people have re-done their wills to take advantage of the current tax setup and then pull a "gotcha!" in 2011 and retroactively reinstate the estate tax for 2010, thus swiping a much larger chunk of the money than they would have otherwise if those planning their wills had anticipated the estate tax being in effect.
Well played sir, well played indeed.I don't plan to die, Corvar
Wolf: "Rich kids don't deserve the money Daddy didn't earn for himself. Kids should have expected to be poor once he died and have no right to security in the wake of his death. Fuck them."
Gas: "Government doesn't deserve the money it allowed to be made via more than fair economic laws, even though the Rich abused those laws and screwed up the economy. Fuck the Country."
Me: "Reduce Estate Tax to 20%, give lower rates to those who give large donations to charitable organizations in their wills or years leading up to death, as well as Veterans. Fuck you both."
Gas: "Government doesn't deserve the money it allowed to be made via more than fair economic laws, even though the Rich abused those laws and screwed up the economy. Fuck the Country."
Me: "Reduce Estate Tax to 20%, give lower rates to those who give large donations to charitable organizations in their wills or years leading up to death, as well as Veterans. Fuck you both."
GasBandit
Staff member
Except while that IS what wolf said, what you quoted me as saying is NOT what I said. First, I assert your implicit assumption that the government IS the country is completely erroneous. Secondly, the government doesn't "allow" you to become successful (or as you put it, rich) in a society where people enjoy liberty, it can only prevent success. The money is not government's to decide how much to let the plebes keep of what they earn.
Furthermore, the "rich abusing the laws" is not what screwed up the economy, it was GOVERNMENT mangling and contorting the capitalist system in the name of well-meant but ill-informed altruism.
A lot of people keep harping on how capitalism has failed us. I assert we have failed capitalism, much in the same way that if you decide to put water in your gas tank because it's cheaper than gas, you can't then claim your car has failed you when the engine seizes.
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WolfOfOdin
-_o
Actually wait...that's a slightly good idea. The rich should have to spend a year or two at a low to lower middle class status in order to see what it's like and develop a bit of empathy.
And Gas, though my original comment was harsh, I have a strong dislike for inherited wealth, since it creates a class of idle rich who never have to work a day in their lives, becoming nothing more than useless parasites on our system, people who cannot grasp the concept of personal failure since they have been protected all their lives. You should have to work for any kind of luxury, it should never be handed to you. Wealth passed on should first be used to pay for a proper burial of the deceased, and then if possible provide a secure net for the widow/widower and their children if they are still dependent minors. I see no reason why a person who's never earned X-Million dollars should receive that just because someone kicked the bucket. The government should promise a secure future with inherited wealth, it should not allow for the propagation of trust-fund kids.
Furthermore, Capitalism has failed us just as we have failed it. Relying upon the current way our economy is geared is a horrible idea, since it's right now geared towards creating a bubble market which inevitably collapses in upon itself. Neither would pure socialism be a good idea, but a mixed system would probably solve a lot of our ills instead of praying to the Free Market like it's some kind of capricious deity.
Actually wait...that's a slightly good idea. The rich should have to spend a year or two at a low to lower middle class status in order to see what it's like and develop a bit of empathy.
And Gas, though my original comment was harsh, I have a strong dislike for inherited wealth, since it creates a class of idle rich who never have to work a day in their lives, becoming nothing more than useless parasites on our system, people who cannot grasp the concept of personal failure since they have been protected all their lives. You should have to work for any kind of luxury, it should never be handed to you. Wealth passed on should first be used to pay for a proper burial of the deceased, and then if possible provide a secure net for the widow/widower and their children if they are still dependent minors. I see no reason why a person who's never earned X-Million dollars should receive that just because someone kicked the bucket. The government should promise a secure future with inherited wealth, it should not allow for the propagation of trust-fund kids.
Furthermore, Capitalism has failed us just as we have failed it. Relying upon the current way our economy is geared is a horrible idea, since it's right now geared towards creating a bubble market which inevitably collapses in upon itself. Neither would pure socialism be a good idea, but a mixed system would probably solve a lot of our ills instead of praying to the Free Market like it's some kind of capricious deity.
Except while that IS what wolf said, what you quoted me as saying is NOT what I said. First, I assert your implicit assumption that the government IS the country is completely erroneous. Secondly, the government doesn't "allow" you to become successful (or as you put it, rich) in a society where people enjoy liberty, it can only prevent success. The money is not government's to decide how much to let the plebes keep of what they earn.
Furthermore, the "rich abusing the laws" is not what screwed up the economy, it was GOVERNMENT mangling and contorting the capitalist system in the name of well-meant but ill-informed altruism.
A lot of people keep harping on how capitalism has failed us. I assert we have failed capitalism, much in the same way that if you decide to put water in your gas tank because it's cheaper than gas, you can't then claim your car has failed you when the engine seizes.[/QUOTE]
No, the assertion that you've made in the past is that taxes are evil and we shouldn't have to pay them, which is unreasonable. Countries need money to operate and unfortunately for the Rich, they have more of it than most of us and now it's their time to pony up their fair share. Yes, 50% IS unreasonable. Of that we are both in agreement... but it's not unreasonable for the Government to expect them to pay something and I'm not exactly going to shed tears for the Millionaire families having to pay out when Daddy dies.
Despite what Libertarianism seems to dictate, their IS a public good that the Government is responsible for, because private citizens have proven time and time again that they are unwilling to do their part to ensure commerce commences fairly and freely for all parties. In fact, if they've proven ANYTHING, it's that they are willing to ensure it's as lopsided as they can get away with making it. Capitalism isn't what failed us, it was the people who didn't want to play fair.
GasBandit
Staff member
The free market, when overseen by a regulatory government whose only aim is to increase competition (as opposed to foster monopoly, ESPECIALLY government-controlled monopoly) is a self-balancing system. Compare banking (especially mortgage banking), a de-facto government run institution (after all, freddy and fannie were always there to catch you if you fell, so you better be giving mortgages to people who can't actually afford them, OR ELSE) with telephone and cell phone service. At one point, there WAS a monopoly on phone service, held by AT&T. The government found this to be toxic to a competitive free market, so they broke them up into the baby bells, setting the policy which has led to the united states having one of the, if not the, most diverse, competitive, affordable and advanced telephony markets in the world.
The government needs to pop the bubbles before they get too big, not continue to inflate them artificially by devaluing our currency with artificially low interest rates and printing money out of thin air to spend faster and faster.
As for sticking it to the trust fund kiddies - the Fair Tax (fairtax.org) would do that very well, seeing as how every time they spent some of their obscene wealth it'd be taxed at 20%... and they do a lot of spending.
However, the whole "indolent trust fund paris hilton" is a fallacious appeal to emotion. It's a standard chestnut in the arsenal of the class-warmonger, whose basis is entirely emotional and not so much factual. For every blue blood Vanderbilt handing down millions to their non-productive progeny to perpetuate down the family line, there are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of "new millionaires" who started anywhere from modest to nonexistant means (many of whom are legal immigrants), work their way up the ladder or start a new business, employ thousands, and when they die, the government (which, again, is NOT the country, is NOT "the people") decides to take his money and decide how much his family gets? Could this BE more wealth-envious?
This is anathema to the entire mindset upon which this country was based - the sancrosanct inviolable nature of private property.
Instead of getting jealous over others, try and keep in mind that what the US government is supposed to do is enable a socioeconomic environment where this can be achieved by anyone with the drive and the vision. When you turn Washington into nothing more than an approved way to rob the achievers and producers to transfer what they have earned to those who have not earned it, you are simply replacing a minimally occurring "evil" (the "old money" family line) with a much more sinister and pandemic evil - the destruction of a system and environment that allows for the creation of wealth in the first place.... in effect, making everybody poor with no recourse.
But then, the clever always find ways around such things. For one thing, they can leave. Ask California or New York how it's working out for them, taxing the ever-living-shit out of the rich? Here's a hint - the rich left, and suddenly the state governments have found it a lot harder to balance the books when the people who were paying all the taxes left.
This is the wealth-envy class-warfare fallacy I'm talking about. I never said ALL TAXES ARE EVIL. A level of taxation is necessary to see to the operation of government... but we're WELL beyond that point. The federal government didn't get 12 trillion dollars into debt merely seeing to its own operating expenses. We're way, WAAAAY into "redistribution of wealth" territory here.
You, sir, are a true believer. Shame no hard line, uncompromising political philosophy works in the real world due to those pesky people being part of the equation. Anything with an -ism can not work on its own.
Keep spouting it though. It's always an amusing read, if a little stunning to see, someone cling so tightly to a belief their "solutions" become predictable.
Remember, to a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Eventually though you'll have to stop hitting your computer with a hammer and find a real way to fix it.
Keep spouting it though. It's always an amusing read, if a little stunning to see, someone cling so tightly to a belief their "solutions" become predictable.
Remember, to a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Eventually though you'll have to stop hitting your computer with a hammer and find a real way to fix it.
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WolfOfOdin
No Gas, the rich can and will attempt to subvert our legal system when possible and have done it time and time again. Money talks and people listen.
Furthermore, you say class warfare like it's a bad thing. In any society where a small fraction of the population holds the majority of the wealth or resources, class war of some sort is an inevitable outcome. We've only managed to avoid that in the US by danging a carrot of "you can be wealthy too!......maybe" in front of the poor long enough.
And Ash, I agree fully with you sentiments. I'd love to believe that if we left things to private citizens, they'd step up and do just as good or better than the Government can. But that's not true. Private enterprises will always seek to maximize profit and cut losses, which may engender deficient quality of service for customers who can't afford the 'elite' package.
Also, Krisken:
That's why I'm a major proponent of a mixed system. Pure capitalism and pure socialism will ALWAYS fail on their own. They need something to lean upon and work off of.
Furthermore, you say class warfare like it's a bad thing. In any society where a small fraction of the population holds the majority of the wealth or resources, class war of some sort is an inevitable outcome. We've only managed to avoid that in the US by danging a carrot of "you can be wealthy too!......maybe" in front of the poor long enough.
And Ash, I agree fully with you sentiments. I'd love to believe that if we left things to private citizens, they'd step up and do just as good or better than the Government can. But that's not true. Private enterprises will always seek to maximize profit and cut losses, which may engender deficient quality of service for customers who can't afford the 'elite' package.
Also, Krisken:
That's why I'm a major proponent of a mixed system. Pure capitalism and pure socialism will ALWAYS fail on their own. They need something to lean upon and work off of.
You know that guy, Griffith, who Gas is so excited switched to the Republican party? Yeah, all but one member of his staff decided they would rather be unemployed than work for him and waited for the break to be over so they could say so in public.
This just in: "People who aren't that one guy have different opinion".
GasBandit
Staff member
What makes you think that government would do any different when it has the money instead of the private sector? At least in the private sector, you can play the rich off one another and achieve some semblance of balance, whereas when the government becomes the only one with money or power, tyranny becomes entrenched and can only be removed by blood.
By your logic, we're doomed to eternal class warfare in every system, because every system entails a minority holding the wealth, resources or power (yes, even communism, someone has to be the commisariat after all). However, our own history does not bear you out - in times where capitalism has been allowed to flourish but is forced to compete with itself, there has been peace and prosperity to go around. It is when government starts trying to bend capitalism to its political aims that cogs start flying off and we all suffer, as we are now. Someone WILL be in charge, someone WILL be rich, someone WILL be powerful. Shouldn't you, I, or anyone else have as much a chance at that? That's what capitalism is about. To deny that power and wealth consolidates, no matter the system, is simply to be willfully ignorant. Do not forget the (until very recently) amazing multitude of economic mobility that the US has imparted upon its citizens.
Which is why Exxon isn't sinking hundreds of millions into renewable alternative energy. Oops, they are. Well, it's why Bill Gates didn't start the Gates Foundation. Ooops, he did. Well, it's why wal-mart is not the nation's top corporate charity donor. Oops, it is. Sorry Wolf, as above, your assertions don't bear up to even casual scrutiny.
Furthermore, as we're going to see in health care (and some already are), when you try to satisfy universal demand with limited resource, and enforce equality across the board, it means equally miserable service for all. Under socialism, economics is a 0 sum game. Under capitalism, wealth is generated. Not everybody will be able to afford the best, but at least some will - those who have striven to achieve and taken advantage of the opportunities they were presented. Those who don't are still free to enjoy the same squalor they'd inflict on everyone else in the name of equality (misery loves company after all)... but they have no one to blame but themselves.