"Transformers 2" is a horrible experience of unbearable leng

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bowielee said:
Now there's something we can agree on. I DO hate Shia Lecantact.
Dead serious. A movie can redeem itself in my eyes with little moments. The interaction between Starscream and Megatron (the 30seconds of it) in the first film almost completely redeemed the film for me. The Starscream vs F16 fighters? Almost did it. What kept killing it? The camera going to Shia. Turned my stomach everytime.

I mean, I sit here, thinking "I'll go tonight, fuck it, I'll get to see some more Decepticon badasses like Devestator and Soundwave" but then I remember that the film is mostly going to be Shia and I just say "Oh yeah... nevermind".
 

ElJuski

Staff member
Shawnacy said:
The twin bots were a bit annoying but whatever. I've seen worse "black" characters on the Boondocks.
Just a question: you realize the concept of satire, right? The Boondocks characters are SUPPOSED to be bad, to point out how the media portrays black culture SERIOUSLY in the media.
 
All of the complaints about the quality of the film aside, the snarking about the 'racist caricatures' of some of the transformers smells of the same 'racist caricature' complaints of Episode One.

Caricatures are meant to be exaggerated - and one of the ways to fake personality in CGI is to use caricatures. I suppose that Mr Bay could have made the gold-toothed bots speak with an English accent and prance about all frilly style however that kind of dissonance would have pulled people right out of the movie.

The complaints about "Little Black Sambobot" speak more about the poster than the movie - especially considering no one under the age of 19 is going to know what the hell you're talking about.
 
ElJuski said:
Just a question: you realize the concept of satire, right? The Boondocks characters are SUPPOSED to be bad, to point out how the media portrays black culture SERIOUSLY in the media.
Yeah, taking Boondocks and face value is just :facepalm:

I'm curious to these "stereotype" bots now, I mean, they sound like Jazz x9000.
 
Shegokigo said:
ElJuski said:
Just a question: you realize the concept of satire, right? The Boondocks characters are SUPPOSED to be bad, to point out how the media portrays black culture SERIOUSLY in the media.
Yeah, taking Boondocks and face value is just :facepalm:

I'm curious to these "stereotype" bots now, I mean, they sound like Jazz x9000.
They're the Jar Jars of this movie. Annoying as hell and totally pointless.
 
Adammon said:
All of the complaints about the quality of the film aside, the snarking about the 'racist caricatures' of some of the transformers smells of the same 'racist caricature' complaints of Episode One.

Caricatures are meant to be exaggerated - and one of the ways to fake personality in CGI is to use caricatures. I suppose that Mr Bay could have made the gold-toothed bots speak with an English accent and prance about all frilly style however that kind of dissonance would have pulled people right out of the movie.

The complaints about "Little Black Sambobot" speak more about the poster than the movie - especially considering no one under the age of 19 is going to know what the hell you're talking about.
Posts like this make me think Spike Lee was right with "Bamboozled". A minstrel show on TV probably would be a hit, and no one would get why it should be offensive. :eek:i:
 

ElJuski

Staff member
Adammon said:
All of the complaints about the quality of the film aside, the snarking about the 'racist caricatures' of some of the transformers smells of the same 'racist caricature' complaints of Episode One.

Caricatures are meant to be exaggerated - and one of the ways to fake personality in CGI is to use caricatures. I suppose that Mr Bay could have made the gold-toothed bots speak with an English accent and prance about all frilly style however that kind of dissonance would have pulled people right out of the movie.

The complaints about "Little Black Sambobot" speak more about the poster than the movie - especially considering no one under the age of 19 is going to know what the hell you're talking about.
Yeah, it speaks of me as, "I try to be culturally aware and try to not let media conform my opinions about the outside world." The most pathetic thing is accepting these things at face value. There's a difference between a caricature and just horrible characterization. I mean, Jetfire was an old crotchety dude with an english accent. He was a poorly written character. But these guys are so blatantly racist that it just boggles the mind how people are just accepting it. This movie portrays big-eared, gold-toothed black robots who can't read. And people are sitting there and laughing at them.


AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY OF RACIST BLACK PORTRAYALS GO ON WIKIPEDIA OR READ A BOOK. Know your media, know your culture, know your history!
 
DarkAudit said:
Posts like this make me think Spike Lee was right with "Bamboozled". A minstrel show on TV probably would be a hit, and no one would get why it should be offensive. :eek:i:
How can something 'should be offensive'? Either people are offended by it or not. From what I've seen, the only people offended by the bots are white people. I don't see NAACP jumping up and down, or Reverend Al Sharpton.

I think the issue is that some people want other people to be offended to assuage their guilt over racism in the past.

-- Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 pm --

ElJuski said:
This movie portrays big-eared, gold-toothed black robots who can't read. And people are sitting there and laughing at them.
I'm pretty sure the robots are red and green. You've just decided that they're black. Skids is actually voiced by a white guy. (Voiced by Tom Kenny, Spongebob)
 
So, the interesting question is this.

Are the characters racist because they portray negative stereotypes of the african american culture?

OR

Are the viewers racist for seeing those qualities put together and automatically associating them with african americans?
 

ElJuski

Staff member
:facepalm: No, you got me. They are not specifically a black colored car. They just talk like hood rats, have gold teeth, big ears and can't read. I'm sorry that I spent all my life taking in cultural, social, media norms and expectations. Obviously you were on Mars, under a rock, with your eyes closed and fingers jammed into your ears singing, "whooooahhhhhhh the hazzarrrrds of loooooove" while the rest of society watched, and coincidentally, was fed, different tropes, norms, expectations (oh the list goes on and on). So, you're either from the fucking moon, or you're an idiot.

Also: He's voiced by a white guy, it can't be a portrayal of a black dude!


BUT NO, ITS BECAUSE I GOT THAT WHITE GUILT
 
Bowielee said:
So, the interesting question is this.

Are the characters racist because they portray negative stereotypes of the african american culture?

OR

Are the viewers racist for seeing those qualities put together and automatically associating them with african americans?
 
ElJuski said:
:facepalm: No, you got me. They are not specifically a black colored car. They just talk like hood rats, have gold teeth, big ears and can't read. I'm sorry that I spent all my life taking in cultural, social, media norms and expectations. Obviously you were on Mars, under a rock, with your eyes closed and fingers jammed into your ears singing, "whooooahhhhhhh the hazzarrrrds of loooooove" while the rest of society watched, and coincidentally, was fed, different tropes, norms, expectations (oh the list goes on and on). So, you're either from the smurfing moon, or you're an idiot.

Also: He's voiced by a white guy, it can't be a portrayal of a black dude!


BUT NO, ITS BECAUSE I GOT THAT WHITE GUILT[/quote]

It certainly seems that way - but at least we're agreeing on that.
 

Cajungal

Staff member
Adammon said:
ElJuski said:
:facepalm: No, you got me. They are not specifically a black colored car. They just talk like hood rats, have gold teeth, big ears and can't read. I'm sorry that I spent all my life taking in cultural, social, media norms and expectations. Obviously you were on Mars, under a rock, with your eyes closed and fingers jammed into your ears singing, "whooooahhhhhhh the hazzarrrrds of loooooove" while the rest of society watched, and coincidentally, was fed, different tropes, norms, expectations (oh the list goes on and on). So, you're either from the smurfing moon, or you're an idiot.

Also: He's voiced by a white guy, it can't be a portrayal of a black dude!


BUT NO, ITS BECAUSE I GOT THAT WHITE GUILT[/quote]

It certainly seems that way - but at least we're agreeing on that.[/quote]

[size=7]psst! It was sarcasm! You actually don't agree.[/size]
 

DarkAudit said:
let's try this tack then...

IT'S BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO GODDAMNED STUPID TO KNOW IT'S WRONG, YOU IGNORANT FUCK!

:eek:i:
And here I thought I was an asshole yesterday.

DA, I used to work with a guy who thought that "The Jerk" was a racist movie because Steve Martin's character was "born a poor black child". Which is total crap because it's just the opposite. I have not (nor will I see) the movie, but the more I read about the characters the more that I realize that the stereotypes are a comedy bit. The two actors went into the studio together to record and the parts were unscripted. The whole thing was ad libbed by two comedians who played off of one another.

I see Juski's views wholeheartedly but I don't think that there was any racial intent - they were just having fun.
 

I've yet to see the movie, Dave, but from what I understand, it wasn't just the acting/portrayal that's got people up in arms; it's the look of the characters, that look like how black people were drawn in the early 20th century. They looked savage, almost ape-like, with giant monkey-like ears, etc.
 

BananaHands

Staff member
ElJuski said:
:facepalm: No, you got me. They are not specifically a black colored car. They just talk like hood rats, have gold teeth, big ears and can't read. I'm sorry that I spent all my life taking in cultural, social, media norms and expectations. Obviously you were on Mars, under a rock, with your eyes closed and fingers jammed into your ears singing, "whooooahhhhhhh the hazzarrrrds of loooooove" while the rest of society watched, and coincidentally, was fed, different tropes, norms, expectations (oh the list goes on and on). So, you're either from the smurfing moon, or you're an idiot.

Also: He's voiced by a white guy, it can't be a portrayal of a black dude!


BUT NO, ITS BECAUSE I GOT THAT WHITE GUILT

Listen to this man. The fact that the American audience will sit there and laugh at blatantly racist characters, claiming that it's not insulting because the guy who did Spongebob voiced them just boggles me. I love how every character swear just for the sake of "Oooh! They said pussy! Oooh! They said bitch! That's cool!". Seriously people, the fact that this movie is being defended just shows how idiotic people have become.

Also, spin the camera around the characters to make a scene intense. Rinse. Repeat.

Fuck you Michael Bay.

DA, I used to work with a guy who thought that "The Jerk" was a racist movie because Steve Martin's character was "born a poor black child". Which is total crap because it's just the opposite. I have not (nor will I see) the movie, but the more I read about the characters the more that I realize that the stereotypes are a comedy bit. The two actors went into the studio together to record and the parts were unscripted. The whole thing was ad libbed by two comedians who played off of one another.
Yeah, but they weren't making a statement about black stereotypes in Transformers. They wanted two buffoons that the audience could laugh at. At one point did these idiots show that they were anything but morons? The part where the one gets angry, screams obscenities and shoots at the big robot for eating him? Or how about when they fight over calling each other pussies and stumble into a secret chamber?
 

ElJuski

Staff member
Viewers, as subjective, learning, developing beings, cannot go into communication without their background and expectations behind them. Who you are and what you have seen paints your identification with how you are going to relate with out human beings. Media, as a way of communication, is large enough now where there are broad strokes painted to the masses. Via mass forms of communication--literature, television, music, films, comic books, the internet--have various trends that ebb and flow with the society at large, absorbing what we want to see (and what we think we want to see), assimilating it, and sending it back, where we assimilate it, and broadcast back. It's communication at large and it's completely fucking moronic to believe that there is not a history of this communication which gives us expectations.

So, to even begin scratching the question that you posed, bowie, it's a little of both: our cultural and social history has taught us these racial stereotypes and racial norms. There was a time people accepted these things as truth (some people still do). However, as culture has evolved, we've shed these ancient ideas (hopefully) for better ones. But we still know these ideas have existed. It's naive to think that we are in an age where equality is completely prevalent. Culture is a growing, brooding thing, and there are no stopping points and no abrupt ends. It continues, and we develop with it. So collectively we DO have expectations of what to see and what not to see. And when we see a red flag being aired, it's not because we are inherently racist (or have some bullshit white guilt that A-dogg keeps dicking on about), but because we are seeing something that is consciously regressive of where culture ~should~ be.

And yes, the writers of that movie should have goddamned no better. That whole movie is a lazy slop of film making that takes on the senses and sensibilities of its viewers and sets it on fire. I feel dumber for have watching it, and kind of feel bummed that the bar can be set so low, in 2009, for making the obviously black characters fucking clowns.

Addendum for Dave: Too bad the millions of idiots that go and love this movie won't know that it's goofing around. I can see Kenny being sarcastic about his voice for the character, but that's because I know who he is and where he's coming from. People are absorbing this face value--and, like TNG said, look how they fucking LOOK! At least when they did Jazz, he looked like the rest of the guys (fucking stupid jive talking assbaggery aside). People are watching this, and the sarcasm just isn't there on the screen So...it doesn't really help much for the people that don't know it's "jes goofin"!

@ C_K: I fucken love you man. FUCKEN MOONPEOPLE >: [
 
ThatNickGuy said:
I've yet to see the movie, Dave, but from what I understand, it wasn't just the acting/portrayal that's got people up in arms; it's the look of the characters, that look like how black people were drawn in the early 20th century. They looked savage, almost ape-like, with giant monkey-like ears, etc.
I haven't seen it, but every time I read about this, I think "Maybe they are supposed to depict MONKEYS, as the character in medieval literature. But then I remember you say they speack with stereotypical accents too.
 

I just wrote a big-assed post and when I submitted I saw responses by Banana & Juski. Deleting what I wrote to concede and agree that not all audiences will be as discerning to parody.

Now I'm REALLY not seeing this movie.
 

BananaHands said:
Also, spin the camera around the characters to make a scene intense. Rinse. Repeat.
I hate that. I hate the reasoning that filming action scenes like the camera is strapped to the back of a rabid, seizuring dog is meant to look more intense. You know what would be more intense? Writing and filming the scene properly so your piss-poor CGI choreography needs to be covered up by said style of filming. Or, you know, using things like the musical score to make the action more intense.

I mean, it's not like musical scores have EVER properly backed up a movie's action before. *cough cough* STAR WARS *cough, cough*
 
I was just looking up a possible youtube of this, but all I could find was a video where they spliced over dialogue from Leprchaun in the hood over the actual dialog of a mcdonalds commercial.

I'm not going to see the film until tomorrow, so I can't make any call on this as I haven't seen the characters in action.

I do believe that some people look for racism/sexism/homophobia where there is none, but I could be wrong as I will find out when I see the film tomorrow.

Though, while I was looking for a clip, I found this picture.



Who knew that Micheal Bay was ripped?
 
Silver Jelly said:
I haven't seen it, but every time I read about this, I think "Maybe they are supposed to depict MONKEYS, as the character in medieval literature. But then I remember you say they speack with stereotypical accents too.
But how else would monkeys speak?!
 
Dave, PM incoming.

I'll repeat what I said there for the rest. Being too ignorant or young to know better does not excuse racism. It's still wrong. Waiting for someone to be offended when something is blatantly ham-handedly racist is a cop-out and just as unacceptable.
 
@Li3n said:
[quote="Silver Jelly":1o1ro2l7]
I haven't seen it, but every time I read about this, I think "Maybe they are supposed to depict MONKEYS, as the character in medieval literature. But then I remember you say they speack with stereotypical accents too.
But how else would monkeys speak?![/quote:1o1ro2l7]

Well, maybe they would try to speak like a very educated person but fail miserably in the details? Something like that.


EDIT:

Or :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top