"Transformers 2" is a horrible experience of unbearable leng

[ElJuski]

I just wrote a big-assed post and when I submitted I saw responses by Banana & Juski. Deleting what I wrote to concede and agree that not all audiences will be as discerning to parody.

Now I'm REALLY not seeing this movie.

* hi fives Dave*

I know it doesn't add up to much to random people on the internet, but you can sure as fuck know that I'm not somebody who stuffs racism and sexism into things to make a hullabaloo about it (further reading: me talking about people bitching about the treatment of date rape in Observe and Report, calling people from Japan moon people for their crazy fire-breathing metal babies).

You don't have to be a white knight crusader...you just have to be smart, and decipher the media for yourself--instead of letting it passively encode you, and telling you what YOU should know.

 

[Adam]

You don't have to be a white knight crusader...you just have to be smart, and decipher the media for yourself--instead of letting it passively encode you, and telling you what YOU should know.

Instead of being derided and insulted for not knowing 'what I should know', right?

 

[ElJuski]

You don't have to be a white knight crusader...you just have to be smart, and decipher the media for yourself--instead of letting it passively encode you, and telling you what YOU should know.

Instead of being derided and insulted for not knowing 'what I should know', right?

Well you obviously missed one of the most ham-fisted stereotypes in the most ham-fisted movie of 2009. I don't have any hope for you. No, no; I really think you're just fucking stupid.

 

[Adam]

You don't have to be a white knight crusader...you just have to be smart, and decipher the media for yourself--instead of letting it passively encode you, and telling you what YOU should know.

Instead of being derided and insulted for not knowing 'what I should know', right?

Well you obviously missed one of the most ham-fisted stereotypes in the most ham-fisted movie of 2009. I don't have any hope for you. No, no; I really think you're just smurfing stupid.

Just making sure we were clear, gotcha.

 

[fade]

All of the complaints about the quality of the film aside, the snarking about the 'racist caricatures' of some of the transformers smells of the same 'racist caricature' complaints of Episode One.

Caricatures are meant to be exaggerated - and one of the ways to fake personality in CGI is to use caricatures. I suppose that Mr Bay could have made the gold-toothed bots speak with an English accent and prance about all frilly style however that kind of dissonance would have pulled people right out of the movie.

The complaints about "Little Black Sambobot" speak more about the poster than the movie - especially considering no one under the age of 19 is going to know what the * you're talking about.

Yeah, it speaks of me as, "I try to be culturally aware and try to not let media conform my opinions about the outside world." The most pathetic thing is accepting these things at face value. There's a difference between a caricature and just horrible characterization. I mean, Jetfire was an old crotchety dude with an english accent. He was a poorly written character. But these guys are so blatantly racist that it just boggles the mind how people are just accepting it. This movie portrays big-eared, gold-toothed black robots who can't read. And people are sitting there and laughing at them.


AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY OF RACIST BLACK PORTRAYALS GO ON WIKIPEDIA OR READ A BOOK. Know your media, know your culture, know your history!

You know what, nevermind. I had this philosophical argument about racism vs. caricature and the subtle but real differences between, but I have a feeling from trends I've seen on this board, that discussion would go over like a lead balloon, and I'd ironically end up labeled a racism. Suffice it to say I had a similar mental debate about the two when I read this post. First reaction to the bots: "Whoa, that's racist." Second: "Wait, is it? It's a terrible caricature that probably should have been avoided, but does that necessarily imply racism--that these bots were written this way because they're black?"

 

[Adam]

You know what, nevermind. I had this philosophical argument about racism vs. caricature and the subtle but real differences between, but I have a feeling from trends I've seen on this board, that discussion would go over like a lead balloon, and I'd ironically end up labeled a racism. Suffice it to say I had a similar mental debate about the two when I read this post. First reaction to the bots: "Whoa, that's racist." Second: "Wait, is it? It's a terrible caricature that probably should have been avoided, but does that necessarily imply racism--that these bots were written this way because they're black?"

Join me my racist brother!

 

[BananaHands]

The only problem with these arguments is that we are putting depth into an incredibly shallow and horrible movie.

But still, I'm raging.

 

It's a terrible caricature that probably should have been avoided, but does that necessarily imply racism--that these bots were written this way because they're black?"

I think it might simply because they use negative racial stereotypes that have been used to parody and insult black people for years. It has the effect of reinforcing these stereotypes such as the "crunk" or that the black people look like monkeys and can't read. The more I read about this the more I fall on Juski's side. Yes, the slurs may be off the cuff and the racism unintentional, but the effect is the same as it would be had it been on purpose.

 

[@Li3n]

[quote="@Li3n":3m9q4f6w][quote="Silver Jelly":3m9q4f6w]
I haven't seen it, but every time I read about this, I think "Maybe they are supposed to depict MONKEYS, as the character in medieval literature. But then I remember you say they speack with stereotypical accents too.

But how else would monkeys speak?![/quote:3m9q4f6w]

Well, maybe they would try to speak like a very educated person but fail miserably in the details? Something like that.


EDIT:

Or [/quote:3m9q4f6w]

Damn you mojo-jojo, for making a response to a rhetorical question actually have merit...

 

[sixpackshaker]

 

[ElJuski]

It's a terrible caricature that probably should have been avoided, but does that necessarily imply racism--that these bots were written this way because they're black?"

I think it might simply because they use negative racial stereotypes that have been used to parody and insult black people for years. It has the effect of reinforcing these stereotypes such as the "crunk" or that the black people look like monkeys and can't read. The more I read about this the more I fall on Juski's side. Yes, the slurs may be off the cuff and the racism unintentional, but the effect is the same as it would be had it been on purpose.

That's the thing. Any educated person (or socially/culturally informed) can be able to perceive what is going on here. Now we take the next step above: what is the intention? The intention was that these characters were made for comedy. And, taken in context with the shallow and vaccuous brain-dead two and a half hour Bay-fest...it's really hard to say that what we're dealing with is satire.

Of course, people CAN, and undoubtedly, people ARE. Because all you need to do is hide behind a flimsy rationalization. Of course, it's not the worst episode of black stereotyping. The Civil Rights movement is half a century ago. But that's the problem, isn't it? The Civil Rights movement was 50 years ago and yet people are bringing their children to see the gold-toothed illiterate MudFlap ghetto slang his way through the silver screen and into their Happy Meal toys.

 

[Espy]

Guys, guys, guys.


If everyone laughs at it it's not racist or bad.

Duh.

 

[Krisken]

I can't wait until people get this bent out of shape over Jewish or Muslim stereotypes.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

I can't wait until people get this bent out of shape over Jewish or Muslim stereotypes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbombya

 

[ElJuski]

I can't wait until people get this bent out of shape over Jewish or Muslim stereotypes.

I can't wait until Transformers 3 has Dirkabot, complete with metallic head wrap. Of course, he's the fiery demolitions expert.


Oh, see also: Jeff Dunham.

 

[Shannow]

Crunk is bad?

 

[Espy]

Crunk is bad?

Well, Bill Cosby doesn't care for it.

 

[Krisken]

Crunk is bad?

Well, Bill Cosby doesn't care for it.

And Cosbyness is next to Godliness.

 

[Espy]

Crunk is bad?

Well, Bill Cosby doesn't care for it.

And Cosbyness is next to Godliness.

Damn Straight.

 

[DarkAudit]

that these bots were written this way because they're black?"

What. The. Fuck? Seriously. What. The. Fuck?
Tell me you did not just say that you really think the robots are black. THEY'RE FUCKING ROBOTS!

Finally, this...
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C45g3YP7JOk:2bncag7n][/youtube:2bncag7n]

By the looks of things we haven't advanced one bit. i:

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5619

Just pimping the sister thread that is designed to hurt kissinger and myself.

 

[Krisken]

http://forum.halforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5619

Just pimping the sister thread that is designed to hurt kissinger and myself.

People don't usually get paid to be a masochist.

 

[sixpackshaker]

http://forum.halforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5619

Just pimping the sister thread that is designed to hurt kissinger and myself.

People don't usually get paid to be a masochist.

That needs to go on your signature...

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

People don't usually get paid to be a masochist.

Professional film critics do this regularly, actually.

Case in point, look at how many reviewed Transformers: Revenge Of The Fallen.

 

[Shannow]

Hititing up happy hour after work, then heading in to see this masterpiece after! Should be the perfect way to see this!

 

[Silver Jelly]

[quote="Silver Jelly":3frd1lcy][quote="@Li3n":3frd1lcy][quote="Silver Jelly":3frd1lcy]
I haven't seen it, but every time I read about this, I think "Maybe they are supposed to depict MONKEYS, as the character in medieval literature. But then I remember you say they speack with stereotypical accents too.

But how else would monkeys speak?![/quote:3frd1lcy]

Well, maybe they would try to speak like a very educated person but fail miserably in the details? Something like that.


EDIT:

Or [/quote:3frd1lcy]

Damn you mojo-jojo, for making a response to a rhetorical question actually have merit...[/quote:3frd1lcy]


I love Mojo Jojo and his speech patterns.

 

[Shannow]

I jsut got back.

I ...I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. To everyone...for everything. All the reviews are right. I'm done tonight. I have nothing to say anymore. I'm sorry.

 

[Gusto]

I jsut got back.

I ...I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. To everyone...for everything. All the reviews are right. I'm done tonight. I have nothing to say anymore. I'm sorry.

*reassuring hand-on-the-shoulder*

It's gonna be okay, man. Just let it out.

 

[Charlie Don't Surf]

I jsut got back.

I ...I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. To everyone...for everything. All the reviews are right. I'm done tonight. I have nothing to say anymore. I'm sorry.

It's okay. It's alright, it's over now.

 

[Steven Soderburgin]

I jsut got back.

I ...I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. To everyone...for everything. All the reviews are right. I'm done tonight. I have nothing to say anymore. I'm sorry.

It's okay. It's done. We're here for you. It's going to be okay.

 

[Alucard]

Holy fck the nerd rage in this discussion. Were you guys raging on about how shitty George Lucas ruined your memories of star wars with the prequal trilogies?

I'm going to see this film at the drive in tomorrow evening along with abrams star trek.

I don't remember you guys being as pissed about Abrams re invention of the Trek universe by creating a alternate reality.

I still hold my opinion that Abrams Star Trek will be my favorite film this year hoping Public Enemies next weekend replaces that.

I can't imagine how you guys will bitch about the shitty remake that GI Joe got when it comes August time.

I'm just expecting big fucking explosions with shitty action and dialogue.

 

[Chippy]

Holy fck the nerd rage in this discussion. Were you guys raging on about how shitty George Lucas ruined your memories of star wars with the prequal trilogies?

I'm going to see this film at the drive in tomorrow evening along with abrams star trek.

I don't remember you guys being as pissed about Abrams re invention of the Trek universe by creating a alternate reality.

I still hold my opinion that Abrams Star Trek will be my favorite film this year hoping Public Enemies next weekend replaces that.

I can't imagine how you guys will bitch about the shitty remake that GI Joe got when it comes August time.

I'm just expecting big fucking explosions with shitty action and dialogue.

I'm convinced you have ADD.

 

[CynicismKills]

Holy fck the nerd rage in this discussion. Were you guys raging on about how shitty George Lucas ruined your memories of star wars with the prequal trilogies?

I'm going to see this film at the drive in tomorrow evening along with abrams star trek.

I don't remember you guys being as pissed about Abrams re invention of the Trek universe by creating a alternate reality.

I still hold my opinion that Abrams Star Trek will be my favorite film this year hoping Public Enemies next weekend replaces that.

I can't imagine how you guys will bitch about the shitty remake that GI Joe got when it comes August time.

I'm just expecting big fucking explosions with shitty action and dialogue.

The flaw in your argument is the Star Trek movie was good. Most didn't rage at it because it was still a solid film. The TF movie is not, however. People did rage at Episodes 1-3 because they were also bad. In fact the general argument is the same as TF2 in that there's maybe one or two redeemable action scenes, but the overall story and character development is shit/non-existent.

 

[ElJuski]

*drapes a warm towel over Shannow; hands him a coffee mug*

I know, man. We're in this...together.



@Chippy: you always show up RIGHT ON TIME, man.

 

[sixpackshaker]

Holy fck the nerd rage in this discussion. Were you guys raging on about how shitty George Lucas ruined your memories of star wars with the prequal trilogies?

I'm going to see this film at the drive in tomorrow evening along with abrams star trek.

I don't remember you guys being as * about Abrams re invention of the Trek universe by creating a alternate reality.

I still hold my opinion that Abrams Star Trek will be my favorite film this year hoping Public Enemies next weekend replaces that.

I can't imagine how you guys will * about the shitty remake that GI Joe got when it comes August time.

I'm just expecting big smurfing explosions with shitty action and dialogue.

Yep, the shitty toy commercial about individualistic people teaming up to fight bad guys is going to be about a bunch of bargain basement Ironmen that look alike fighting missiles in Paris.