Having not played any of the previous ones (star wars, Batman, Lotr, Potter, Indiana,,,, ), those are refinements they only got around to now? After, what, 15 games?
Most of those have been in a number of games by now. I'm just glad that each time I try a new LEGO games, they've usually made improvements on past headaches. (Unless it's freakin' LEGO Jurassic World where the glitch still isn't fixed and I'm still sitting at 99% arrrrgghbsghdgffg
)
figmentPez
Staff member
Well, LEGO The Hobbit came out two years ago (and there were about a dozen games before that), but yeah, it's kinda surprising that it took them so long to spell out what characters have what abilities. However, being able to summon mounts wasn't a problem in any of the superhero games, because you can fly, or drive vehicles around. In other games, there's no open world to explore, so you don't have very far to travel. Even in LotR it was a minor problem, since you could fast travel around the world.
That's not to mention that a lot of other things have been refined over the course of the series. I only started playing with LEGO Batman 2, and haven't played any of the earlier games (Star Wars, Harry Potter, Indiana Jones, etc.), but for instance: LotR added items that can be used by any character, Marvel Superheroes added big characters, and I'm looking forward to seeing what's been added in the other games since.
And this stuff gets noticed and improved; even companies known for polish (like Nintendo) don't seem to care about making UI work smoothly. I'm still fuming over how awful the shop interfaces were in Skyward Sword. The system for handling a huge amount of unlockable characters in LEGO Batman may have been clunky, but it's gotten better and better each game. Nintendo still can't seem to figure out how to make shop interfaces work well. Which is why I fear an open world Zelda game.
GasBandit
Staff member
Oooh, they added female prisoners now?
At any rate, if I recall correctly, alpha backers got to put their name and bio in to be convicts.
And there she is, in it.
BEGIN prisoner
FirstName "Anna"
NickName "Prism"
LastName "Dei"
DoB "1980.07.01"
Bio "The infamous 'Rainbow Killer'"
BodyType "4"
BodyScale "1"
HeadType "4"
SkinColour "0xf8deaaff"
Id "275664"
Gender "Female"
END
Female prisoners are a pain. They get in just as many fights, shank just as many of their fellows, but you gotta devote a whole wing to family rooms, so the prisoners with children have a secure place. They take up so much space....and IIRC I once had one of my female prisoners dig out with her baby in tow. Blah!
Mr. Z (or @Jesterboom , whatever) is playing The Division right now, and their rendering of Manhattan is INCREDIBLE. I just looked up and realized the building he was staring at is my old apartment building! You could tell just by looking at it! Mr. Z says he hardly ever bothers with the map because he can tell by looking around exactly where he is, and as I'm watching him play, he's right. It's uncanny.
Also amazing, but in the bad way: listening to people butcher the pronunciation of "Stuyvesant".
Also amazing, but in the bad way: listening to people butcher the pronunciation of "Stuyvesant".
It looks like a gorgeous game, but I'm skeptical about the "Destiny" style of online play as well as the reportedly lackluster controls and grind-y feel to the gameplay. How does he like it?Mr. Z (or @Jesterboom , whatever) is playing The Division right now, and their rendering of Manhattan is INCREDIBLE. I just looked up and realized the building he was staring at is my old apartment building! You could tell just by looking at it! Mr. Z says he hardly ever bothers with the map because he can tell by looking around exactly where he is, and as I'm watching him play, he's right. It's uncanny.
Also amazing, but in the bad way: listening to people butcher the pronunciation of "Stuyvesant".
Jun does not give me rage issues.
Warning : wall of text
Also Tl
r - Destiny and Division don't belong in the same comparison. Would you compare Starcraft to World of Warcraft?
With that said: If you're using Destiny as a comparison, it's not going to work. even a little bit.
Destiny is first and foremost a FPS with certain MMO elements. The truest way of describing Division is MMORPS (role playing shooter- I coined it. I should trademark it.) The games are nothing alike. Read below!
On "destiny style" of online play. Are you referring to the constant need to stay connected to the server? Yes, Division does that too. The interesting thing about the division is that it's matchmaking system is actually far superior to Destinys (Which is a god damn joke)
Division doesn't have the cool "public events" that would pull guardians from all over the map to a certain spot and if you populate a map with just yourself, it's a lonely run. You will only see other players in public "hubs"
Now, in regards to the "controls" - This is in direct correlation to my first statement. Destiny does many things very well and its gunplay is spectacular. If you're putting the two side by side, it's not a fair comparison. So yes, the controls could be considered lackluster but it's really only based on what you're expecting it to be. Destiny can be comparable to other FPSs (COD, Doom, Etc), Division needs to be compared to Cover-shooters ( Gears of war, Splinter cell, etc). I personally find the movement and cover system to work perfectly when the expectation is to do just that; move to cover, then to shoot. Every now and then there's an awkward point but you'll find your way to work through it. Destiny STILL has the run glitch. if you can deal with that, you can deal with jumping on top of boxes by accident. The game compares very favorably to other Cover-Shooters, if you're comfortable with that type of game play.
" grind-y feel to the gameplay"
So, you've played destiny yeah? Depending on when you started, the terms "Forever 25, Forever 29, forever 31, forever 309 and forever 319" should all be very familiar to you. If they are, then you know the grind. Have a Gally? Fatebringer? Vex? Those are grinds. Daily bounties - remember signing on to do that shit first? How many times can you really find 10 Vex on Venus and kill them? GOD HELP ME if i need to earn 10K xp without dying. (Btw, easiest way was to do the daily mission) That's grindy.
Here's another Question - What MMORPG isnt a grind? All MMO's at all point fall into "find this, kill that, bring it back, sorry, not the right thing, go do it again"
The point is, all games are grindy. Shit, in order to the the platinum on Diablo 3, I had to complete 500 bounties. That took about 12 hours total of work and trust me. IT WAS WORK.
I'm not far enough into the Division for things to really feel like a grind yet but it seems like there's enough variety to keep that feeling at bay.
If you want to see it, and have twitch, Look me up. Same name. i'll be playing nightly at 8pm Est.
Also Tl
r - Destiny and Division don't belong in the same comparison. Would you compare Starcraft to World of Warcraft?I'll address this point by point, with a little bit of background. I've played Destiny for 1027 Hours. Keep in mind that I did not start until after the dark below came out. That averages out to about 4 hours a night and i'm burnt out from destiny. I may seem jaded but that game holds a very special place in my heart.
With that said: If you're using Destiny as a comparison, it's not going to work. even a little bit.
Destiny is first and foremost a FPS with certain MMO elements. The truest way of describing Division is MMORPS (role playing shooter- I coined it. I should trademark it.) The games are nothing alike. Read below!
On "destiny style" of online play. Are you referring to the constant need to stay connected to the server? Yes, Division does that too. The interesting thing about the division is that it's matchmaking system is actually far superior to Destinys (Which is a god damn joke)
Division doesn't have the cool "public events" that would pull guardians from all over the map to a certain spot and if you populate a map with just yourself, it's a lonely run. You will only see other players in public "hubs"
Now, in regards to the "controls" - This is in direct correlation to my first statement. Destiny does many things very well and its gunplay is spectacular. If you're putting the two side by side, it's not a fair comparison. So yes, the controls could be considered lackluster but it's really only based on what you're expecting it to be. Destiny can be comparable to other FPSs (COD, Doom, Etc), Division needs to be compared to Cover-shooters ( Gears of war, Splinter cell, etc). I personally find the movement and cover system to work perfectly when the expectation is to do just that; move to cover, then to shoot. Every now and then there's an awkward point but you'll find your way to work through it. Destiny STILL has the run glitch. if you can deal with that, you can deal with jumping on top of boxes by accident. The game compares very favorably to other Cover-Shooters, if you're comfortable with that type of game play.
" grind-y feel to the gameplay"
So, you've played destiny yeah? Depending on when you started, the terms "Forever 25, Forever 29, forever 31, forever 309 and forever 319" should all be very familiar to you. If they are, then you know the grind. Have a Gally? Fatebringer? Vex? Those are grinds. Daily bounties - remember signing on to do that shit first? How many times can you really find 10 Vex on Venus and kill them? GOD HELP ME if i need to earn 10K xp without dying. (Btw, easiest way was to do the daily mission) That's grindy.
Here's another Question - What MMORPG isnt a grind? All MMO's at all point fall into "find this, kill that, bring it back, sorry, not the right thing, go do it again"
The point is, all games are grindy. Shit, in order to the the platinum on Diablo 3, I had to complete 500 bounties. That took about 12 hours total of work and trust me. IT WAS WORK.
I'm not far enough into the Division for things to really feel like a grind yet but it seems like there's enough variety to keep that feeling at bay.
If you want to see it, and have twitch, Look me up. Same name. i'll be playing nightly at 8pm Est.
Ohhhh. THAT'S how you pronounce Calleja!Also amazing, but in the bad way: listening to people butcher the pronunciation of "Stuyvesant".
But is it west of Acapulco?
GasBandit
Staff member
Well, I'd like to point out that - although it no longer exists - Warhammer Online was entirely grind-optional. I went from 1 to 40 (max) at least 16 times in the years I played it exclusively in PVP. No mob farming, no PvE quests at all. Granted there were PVP quests, "Kill 10 enemies," "Kill 10 enemies at this battlefield objective," "take this battlefield objective," etc, but really you just take all the ones available and just did whatever you wanted and turned them in when they were complete and immediately took them again. Killing enemy players would get you loot in the form of "war crests" that you could use to buy gear from gear merchants which is as good - or better - than PVE/quested gear.
So, it can be done
[DOUBLEPOST=1457990965,1457990837][/DOUBLEPOST]
Aw man, Terrik's model is from HFA1... and the files for that were on my previous machine that died :/[DOUBLEPOST=1457991475][/DOUBLEPOST]Hrrmm.. I suppose I could try to re-create him as a character in AA2 based on a screenshot from HFA1...
Also, @Dei and @Terrik , haahahahaha.. remember THIS?
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I mean, you're still grinding player kills and/or battlegrounds to get the crests, which you're grinding to buy better gear.Well, I'd like to point out that - although it no longer exists - Warhammer Online was entirely grind-optional. I went from 1 to 40 (max) at least 16 times in the years I played it exclusively in PVP. No mob farming, no PvE quests at all. Granted there were PVP quests, "Kill 10 enemies," "Kill 10 enemies at this battlefield objective," "take this battlefield objective," etc, but really you just take all the ones available and just did whatever you wanted and turned them in when they were complete and immediately took them again. Killing enemy players would get you loot in the form of "war crests" that you could use to buy gear from gear merchants which is as good - or better - than PVE/quested gear.
So, it can be done
It's a grind, just not with NPCs. Just because you're not killing CPU-controlled enemies doesn't mean it's not a treadmill.
GasBandit
Staff member
Actually, the kills just kind of happen. I mean, you're going to be killing things, that's part of the game. But the vehicle by which those kills occur are things like "Take Mandred's Hold away from the enemy" or "Defend Stonetroll Keep." It's siege warfare, the kills just happen, and the rewards just roll in.
Sure, but in the end you're still doing the same scenarios/battlegrounds/etc over and over when they're available, which, in the end, is grinding (thought at this point we might just be nagging about semantics). WHO's PvP was leagues above basically every MMO out there in terms of fun, though, so at least it didn't feel as grind-y as say, honor/conquest grinding in WoW.
Actually, I remember you pointing this out when Terrik mentioned not remembering me being in HFA1.
Just thought I'd throw out that I'm loving The Division but I also didn't pay for it, friend got it for the both of us.
I don't take issue with the fact it's grindy. It isn't any more so than say Borderlands and doesn't feel nearly as much as Destiny did, haven't played in about half a year so not sure if that's been sorted. I'm also not at end game so we'll see if that changes.
If nothing else the cover system, gun play and interactions with skills and other players make it ,worth playing alone. I hear the dark zone needs some work but the little I played of it was interesting. Best gear is in a walled off area of the city that they tried to shove all those with the money flu into at first and then it just deteriorated too fast and was left mostly abandoned. Getting gear out of there, as it's contaminated, requires you to call a helicopter for extraction but this also alerts everyone in the area that you are at extraction point with a bunch of items allowing them to try to kill you to take them and extract them for their own. You don't lose your already cleaned items when you die, just everything not yet extracted from the current run. If you're killed you can run back to your body to try to reclaim your things as well. If you kill too many players in the dark zone, or maybe any at all I haven't tried to yet as I've mostly been left alone while in there, you become marked on the map and have a bounty. I think the longer you survive with the bounty the better your rewards as well as to those that finally manage to take you down.
I don't take issue with the fact it's grindy. It isn't any more so than say Borderlands and doesn't feel nearly as much as Destiny did, haven't played in about half a year so not sure if that's been sorted. I'm also not at end game so we'll see if that changes.
If nothing else the cover system, gun play and interactions with skills and other players make it ,worth playing alone. I hear the dark zone needs some work but the little I played of it was interesting. Best gear is in a walled off area of the city that they tried to shove all those with the money flu into at first and then it just deteriorated too fast and was left mostly abandoned. Getting gear out of there, as it's contaminated, requires you to call a helicopter for extraction but this also alerts everyone in the area that you are at extraction point with a bunch of items allowing them to try to kill you to take them and extract them for their own. You don't lose your already cleaned items when you die, just everything not yet extracted from the current run. If you're killed you can run back to your body to try to reclaim your things as well. If you kill too many players in the dark zone, or maybe any at all I haven't tried to yet as I've mostly been left alone while in there, you become marked on the map and have a bounty. I think the longer you survive with the bounty the better your rewards as well as to those that finally manage to take you down.
GasBandit
Staff member
"When they're available?" When were they not available? I mean, yes, taking a keep locked it down for 30 minutes, but at any given time there were 3 ORvR areas all available, and you could be queued for battlegrounds while you did it (though I never did battlegrounds after T1, ORvR was just too much fun).
I mean, yeah, granted I probably did "Take Mandred's Hold" hundreds of times, but it doesn't feel grindy because it is different every time... I mean, if you love to play 2fort in TF2, and you play on it over and over for hours, you're not really "grinding," wouldn't you say?
Doing the same level over and over again is essentially grinding, just because you like it doesn't mean it isn't. (There's a sex joke here, I know it.)
GasBandit
Staff member
See, I wouldn't call Borderlands "grindy" at all. I never had to go back to kill/farm an area I'd already completed all my missions in purely for exp/random loot. Well, except the Trash Coast. I'll cop to grinding that area because Pauline really wanted a Maliwan Volcano, and I'd heard it dropped more frequently there. And it did, on our second lap around the zone.
Sorry, I meant I found The Division about as grind heavy as I found Borderlands which I personally didn't find it that at all really, though I heard it as a complaint about the game.
The Division's grind so far that I've experienced has more to do with the fact that of the non-event missions are all very similar in tone and how they play out. Most are go here and kill this guy/go here and defend this node, as Borderlands missions were. Though I think Borderlands wins out in that regard because, at least typically, what you were being sent to kill/protect had a build up of 3-4 missions that established a connection before hand until culminating in a grand set piece. None of the individual missions on The Division's map seem to have any relevance to the larger, longer ones which mostly amount to "Our base needs power, go storm the sewers and turbines."
More lack of variety in mission selection grind than say not being strong enough or having good enough gear grind. Either way I'm not sure I'm even making sense to me anymore, let alone anyone else.
The Division's grind so far that I've experienced has more to do with the fact that of the non-event missions are all very similar in tone and how they play out. Most are go here and kill this guy/go here and defend this node, as Borderlands missions were. Though I think Borderlands wins out in that regard because, at least typically, what you were being sent to kill/protect had a build up of 3-4 missions that established a connection before hand until culminating in a grand set piece. None of the individual missions on The Division's map seem to have any relevance to the larger, longer ones which mostly amount to "Our base needs power, go storm the sewers and turbines."
More lack of variety in mission selection grind than say not being strong enough or having good enough gear grind. Either way I'm not sure I'm even making sense to me anymore, let alone anyone else.
My only real impression of The Division has been this shit:
GasBandit
Staff member
That has got to be the most civilized bunch of MMO players I've ever seen. Actually standing in line instead of huddling together in a scrum? Yeesh.My only real impression of The Division has been this shit:
A similar thing happened in FFXIV early on, too. I was surprised to see people doing the same thing and lining up.
I'll have you know, young lady, that you're one of the biggest troublemakers in my prison. You attack other prisoners and staff, you dig tunnels to try to escape, and I almost always find contraband drugs or alcohol on your body or in your cell (seriously, how did you smuggle all that stuff in?). You've spent more time in solitary confinement than in your actual cell.
Actually, I haven't seen you around for a while. Either you've been released, or you finally finished that tunnel and got out.
Tomb Raider: Okay, past the halfway point, but my patience is near the breaking point with the shoddy response on these controls. I don't think I'll be able to make it through the whole game putting up with this shit, especially since the last three levels are fucking torturous if memory serves.