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Explosion at boston marathon

Apr 15, 2013#1

blotsfan

http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/metr...628/19757044/-/ktnc1wz/-/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

People already reported missing limbs. No news of if this was an attack or an accident yet. Still...holy shit

Apr 15, 2013#2

Dave

I just now heard about this. Holy fuck! Initial reports look like 2 separate bombs set to go off. This is conjecture, but it sure makes sense.

Apr 15, 2013#3

Piotyr

Obligatory warning to take all early reports with a grain of salt.

Regardless of injuries and/or fatalities, though, this was a terrible thing to do.

Apr 15, 2013#4

GasBandit

More pictures for your rubbernecking displeasure. Warning, varying degrees of graphic content.

Apr 15, 2013#5

Charlie Don't Surf

Ugh, this is sickening.

Apr 15, 2013#6

Chad Sexington

Shit.

Apr 15, 2013#7

Ravenpoe

Oh my god... Some of those pictures... damn.

Apr 15, 2013#8

ThatNickGuy

There was a THIRD explosion just now. Jesus, what the hell is going on?

Apr 15, 2013#9

Gared

ThatNickGuy said:
There was a THIRD explosion just now. Jesus, what the hell is going on?

The third explosion was supposed to be a controlled detonation by the ATF, using a water cannon to disarm a potential third device.

Apr 15, 2013#10

LittleKagsin

This really makes me nervous - our company CEO's run in the marathon every year and showcase new equipment. I hope they're okay!

I don't like it when things like this happen, it breaks my heart.

Apr 15, 2013#11

GasBandit

Boston EMS says the third explosion was a water cannon they had been informed to expect.

Apr 15, 2013#12

Gared

LittleKagsin said:
This really makes me nervous - our company CEO's run in the marathon every year and showcase new equipment. I hope they're okay!

I don't like it when things like this happen, it breaks my heart.

You can check their progress and status at the race tracker.

Apr 15, 2013#13

WasabiPoptart

This is horrible.

Apr 15, 2013#14

LittleKagsin

Gared said:
You can check their progress and status at the race tracker.

Wonderful, thank you!

Apr 15, 2013#15

Jax

Holy shit.. This is unreal.

Apr 15, 2013#16

Hylian

This is horrible

I am at a loss for words here

Apr 15, 2013#17

CrimsonSoul

We really need to ban bombs so this kind of thing stops happening.

Apr 15, 2013#18

Gared

AP News says Newtown families were in the VIP section right next to the explosion. The last mile of today's race was dedicated to the memory of the Newtown shooting victims.

Apr 15, 2013#19

ThatNickGuy

CrimsonSoul said:
We really need to ban bombs so this kind of thing stops happening.

Don't do this. Not now. Just...not now.

Apr 15, 2013#20

Tress

CrimsonSoul said:
We really need to ban bombs so this kind of thing stops happening.

You think you're funny, don't you? Ass.

Apr 15, 2013#21

Dave

I saw the same kind of bullshit on the facebook page about "gun control" and "obama's fault". I also saw "let the blacks, Mexicans and liberals vote and this is what you get." Quality, quality individuals.[DOUBLEPOST=1366058973][/DOUBLEPOST]By the way, NBC is reporting they were told 2 devices did not go off but were found. If this turns out to be true, then they have fantastic evidence to follow up with. Unexploded devices will yield MUCH more information than trying to piece together data from an actual explosion.

Apr 15, 2013#22

BananaHands

Gared said:
AP News says Newtown families were in the VIP section right next to the explosion. The last mile of today's race was dedicated to the memory of the Newtown shooting victims.

Is there a source for this??

Apr 15, 2013#23

GasBandit

Wonder if they destroyed them both with their water cannon, and if so, how much evidence that leaves for them?

Apr 15, 2013#24

CrimsonSoul

Dave said:
I saw the same kind of bullshit on the facebook page about "gun control" and "obama's fault". I also saw "let the blacks, Mexicans and liberals vote and this is what you get." Quality, quality individuals.[DOUBLEPOST=1366058973][/DOUBLEPOST]By the way, NBC is reporting they were told 2 devices did not go off but were found. If this turns out to be true, then they have fantastic evidence to follow up with. Unexploded devices will yield MUCH more information than trying to piece together data from an actual explosion.

Cnn is saying one device but they water cannoned the shit out of it so it's in a lot of pieces too

Apr 15, 2013#25

Dave

Another explosion at the JFK library.

Apr 15, 2013#26

blotsfan

GasBandit said:
Wonder if they destroyed them both with their water cannon, and if so, how much evidence that leaves for them?

CBS said they have one disarmed bomb intact.

Apr 15, 2013#27

Gared

BananaHands said:
Is there a source for this??

Tweet sent by "TimWilliamsCBS".

Apr 15, 2013#28

fade

Wow, this is surreal. I have stood in that exact spot many times. I used to walk around there at lunchtime when I worked in Boston.

Apr 15, 2013#29

CrimsonSoul

blotsfan said:
CBS said they have one disarmed bomb intact.

Oh nice

Apr 15, 2013#30

Dave

BananaHands said:
Is there a source for this??

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/nati...nal-mile-was-dedicated-newtown-victims/64250/

Apr 15, 2013#31

GasBandit

Maybe it's too soon to say this too, but I'm a little miffed at the BPD after all the kerfluffle they've been raising for the last few years over "suspicious devices" like the mooninite promo rigs. They come down like a ton of bricks on every bit of art or promotional display, but when it comes to security for the boston frickin marathon suddenly they're caught completely flatfooted by actual explosives.

Squashing liberty in the name of security is even more appalling when it fails to actually promote security.

Apr 15, 2013#32

CrimsonSoul

Dave said:
Another explosion at the JFK library.

Wtf! And Cnn days officials working on disarming bombs throughout Boston

Apr 15, 2013#33

WasabiPoptart

Dave said:
Another explosion at the JFK library.

That happened 30 minutes ago or is this a second one in the library?

Apr 15, 2013#34

Gared

CrimsonSoul said:
Wtf! And Cnn days officials working on disarming bombs throughout Boston

Most of the time officials aren't finding anything suspicious at locations of reported packages. I'm listening in on their scanner feed through Radioreference.com.

Apr 15, 2013#35

CrimsonSoul

Gared said:
Most of the time officials aren't finding anything suspicious at locations of reported packages. I'm listening in on their scanner feed through Radioreference.com.

At work so I can't do any of that

Apr 15, 2013#36

ThatNickGuy

GasBandit said:
Maybe it's too soon to say this

Yes.

Apr 15, 2013#37

fade

GasBandit said:
Maybe it's too soon to say this too, but I'm a little miffed at the BPD after all the kerfluffle they've been raising for the last few years over "suspicious devices" like the mooninite promo rigs. They come down like a ton of bricks on every bit of art or promotional display, but when it comes to security for the boston frickin marathon suddenly they're caught completely flatfooted by actual explosives.

Squashing liberty in the name of security is even more appalling when it fails to actually promote security.

Yeah but drop bags are pretty common in marathons. It's possible the bombs were "disguised" as drop bags.

Apr 15, 2013#38

CrimsonSoul

fade said:
Yeah but drop bags are pretty common in marathons. It's possible the bombs were "disguised" as drop bags.

What's a drop bag?

Apr 15, 2013#39

LittleKagsin

Just got word that all of my bosses and CEO's (plus their sales team) are okay and on their way home.

Apr 15, 2013#40

fade

A bag with water and a change of clothes or food. You drop it at the finish line and pick it up from the huge pile when you finish.

Apr 15, 2013#41

WasabiPoptart

LittleKagsin said:
Just got word that all of my bosses and CEO's (plus their sales team) are okay and on their way home.

Glad to hear that.

Apr 15, 2013#42

Gared

AP is reporting that cell service has been shut down throughout Boston to prevent IED triggers by phone. Unfortunately, this seems to be doing an excellent job of hampering communications between firefighters and outside agencies, like the Red Cross and a medical supply shipment that's coming in from NYC.

Apr 15, 2013#43

Dave

WasabiPoptart said:
That happened 30 minutes ago or is this a second one in the library?

Unknown. The chief of police in Boston said it in a press conference.

Apr 15, 2013#44

strawman

Gared said:
AP is reporting that cell service has been shut down throughout Boston to prevent IED triggers by phone. Unfortunately, this seems to be doing an excellent job of hampering communications between firefighters and outside agencies, like the Red Cross and a medical supply shipment that's coming in from NYC.

Yeah, 9/11 resulted in many proposals for a method to limit consumer cell phone use while allowing emergency communications, but obviously that system was never fully implemented beyond a few conferences on the subject.

We'll just have to wait to find out, along with everyone else. The first few hours are chaos, the next few days won't be much better.

Apr 15, 2013#45

PatrThom

Hey there, CrimsonSoul , I feel your pain. I see what you're saying, and feel the point you are making is 100% valid, but emotions are running high right now and that probably means your audience is less receptive. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone over at 4chan or 9gag or 16choke or whatever hasn't already made a GIF of the explosion blaming Obama for the disaster.

Also, I wish they'd hurry up and accumulate enough reliable info to put this thing together already. I wanna know who I should be blaming for all of this. I got a lot of pent-up incredulity and I want to rage fruitlessly at something for a while.

I wish I were kidding.

--Patrick

Apr 15, 2013#46

strawman

PatrThom said:
a GIF of the explosion blaming Obama for the disaster.

THANKS OBAMA!

Apr 15, 2013#47

Tress

Apr 15, 2013#48

PatrThom

stienman said:
THANKS OBAMA!

That is what I was alluding to (but deliberately not explicitly stating), yes.

--Patrick

Apr 15, 2013#49

Gared

Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital in Boston has requested EOD assistance to examine a suspicious "military style" duffel bag that's been left at their ER. Also, a CVS pharmacy has been evacuated due to a suspicious backpack.

Keep in mind, right now every unattended item in Boston is suspicious, and so far all reports have been false.

Apr 15, 2013#50

CrimsonSoul

stienman said:
Yeah, 9/11 resulted in many proposals for a method to limit consumer cell phone use while allowing emergency communications, but obviously that system was never fully implemented beyond a few conferences on the subject.

We'll just have to wait to find out, along with everyone else. The first few hours are chaos, the next few days won't be much better.

They should shut calling services and picture services for all but emergency calls but leave text service intact add that uses the same device that pings tge cell tower only instead if the ping it sends out the texts (which is why texts are limited in characters)

Apr 15, 2013#51

strawman

CrimsonSoul said:
They should shut calling services and picture services for all but emergency calls but leave text service intact add that uses the same device that pings tge cell tower only instead if the ping it sends out the texts (which is why texts are limited in characters)

That would work, but the software that runs at the towers simply isn't set up for it.

All they really need to do is make it so that all phones are shut off, and a code is created that, when typed into a phone and sent, would enable that phone across the network. That way they don't have to keep lists of official cell phones, they just have to disseminate a code to emergency responders during the crisis, and it will get around fast enough.

Apr 15, 2013#52

fade

Gotten in touch with most of my friends and former co-workers from around Boston. My kids are a little dazed because we moved from there so recently. They feel some kind of connection.

Apr 15, 2013#53

GasBandit

Yeah, don't go to 4chan right now unless you're in a positively ghoulish mood.

Apr 15, 2013#54

Gared

stienman said:
That would work, but the software that runs at the towers simply isn't set up for it.

All they really need to do is make it so that all phones are shut off, and a code is created that, when typed into a phone and sent, would enable that phone across the network. That way they don't have to keep lists of official cell phones, they just have to disseminate a code to emergency responders during the crisis, and it will get around fast enough.

This is the system they have set up, but they're not giving the code out over the air, probably because anyone can listen in to their scanner feed (like I am). There are a few personnel dedicated to patching through direct calls as people call out that they have a call that they need to get through.[DOUBLEPOST=1366061482][/DOUBLEPOST]The NY Post is today's Newsfail of the day, as they reported that there was a suspect in custody, until the BPD made them take the story down.[DOUBLEPOST=1366061601][/DOUBLEPOST]They are really waffling back and forth as to whether or not the explosion at the JFK library was related to the blasts at the finish line. Current suspicion is that it was just an electrical fire in their new building.

Apr 15, 2013#55

CrimsonSoul

Cnn is saying 100 injured now

Apr 15, 2013#56

Gared

Current image of Times Square, out of an abundance of caution (hopefully).

Apr 15, 2013#57

CrimsonSoul

Gared said:
Current image of Times Square, out of an abundance of caution (hopefully).

Post? Twitter diesnt work on my phone for since reason

Apr 15, 2013#58

Silent Bob

Suspect ID'd. Saudi National.

I hope whoever masterminded this is caught and has the book thrown at them.

Bombing international events like the Boston Marathon - something that's supposed to promote peace and solidarity amongst all of us a human beings just sickens me.

Apr 15, 2013#59

GasBandit

Silent Bob said:
Suspect ID'd. Saudi National.

I hope whoever masterminded this is caught and has the book thrown at them.

Bombing international events like the Boston Marathon - something that's supposed to promote peace and solidarity amongst all of us a human beings just sickens me.

That's the erroneous NY Post article that was forced to be taken down.

Apr 15, 2013#60

Gared

CrimsonSoul said:
Post? Twitter diesnt work on my phone for since reason

[DOUBLEPOST=1366062883][/DOUBLEPOST]Boston College PD is requesting EOD assistance for an unattended running vehicle with CT plates on the first floor of a parking garage.

Apr 15, 2013#61

strawman

Library is unrelated fire incident.

So far reports are two dead, 86 wounded. Likely the number of dead will rise as wounded succumb to their injuries.

President Obama is on TV now declaring that justice will be served upon those who committed this crime.

Apr 15, 2013#62

Dave

stienman said:
Library is unrelated fire incident.

So far reports are two dead, 86 wounded. Likely the number of dead will rise as wounded succumb to their injuries.

President Obama is on TV now declaring that justice will be served upon those who committed this crime.

And really, what else would he - or could he - say?

Apr 15, 2013#63

strawman

Today is

- tax day
- a day of celebration in North Korea
- beginning of Tienanmen square protests in 1989
- beginning of the US dropping bombs on libya in retaliation for their bombing in germany killing two US servicemen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_15

Apr 15, 2013#64

Gared

Also Patriots Day in Boston, the 200 and somethingth year.

And, getting back to the human side of this, a reporter for WBUR says most cases at Massachusetts General Hospital are leg amputations, of runners who had just finished the race as the explosions occurred.

Apr 15, 2013#65

Cheesy1

CNN is reporting right now that one of the two dead was an 8-year-old.

Seriously, FUCK whomever did this! Sick bastards!

Apr 15, 2013#66

Gilgamesh

Cheesy1 said:
CNN is reporting right now that one of the two dead was an 8-year-old.

Seriously, FUCK whomever did this! Sick bastards!

I'm really really hoping that it isn't a sibling of one of the Newtown victims...

Apr 15, 2013#67

blotsfan

Don't have the link now but I'm pretty sure I heard all Newtown related people were ok.

Apr 15, 2013#68

GasBandit

White house is talking terrorist groups, I'm thinking home grown psychopath - because no group has claimed responsibility, and they're usually pretty quick about that sort of thing.

Apr 15, 2013#69

WasabiPoptart

I was thinking the same thing, GasBandit. I would put money on this being domestic instead of international.

Apr 15, 2013#70

AshburnerX

I wonder how long before someone tries to spin this toward North Korea.

Apr 15, 2013#71

GasBandit

AshburnerX said:
I wonder how long before someone tries to spin this toward North Korea.

Already happened on 4chan. But there, of course, that was one of many, ranging from iran to "the jews."

Apr 15, 2013#72

sixpackshaker

AshburnerX said:
I wonder how long before someone tries to spin this toward North Korea.

Pray that nobody does.

Apr 15, 2013#73

fade

I immediately had the feeling it's domestic. It feels like someone with a message rather than someone with numbers and terror in mind. Just a hunch.

Apr 15, 2013#74

Cheesy1

I'm afraid that even if it isn't spun toward North Korea, it's going to lower our tolerance for their bullshit to the point where war might be more likely.

Apr 15, 2013#75

CrimsonSoul

fade said:
I immediately had the feeling it's domestic. It feels like someone with a message rather than someone with numbers and terror in mind. Just a hunch.

I agree. I would think a big organisation would have had bigger explosions

Apr 15, 2013#76

Hailey Knight

Chiming in the feeling that this is someone local.

Apr 15, 2013#77

Cheesy1

Yeah, this is more than likely a local nutjob or group of nutjobs.

Apr 15, 2013#78

Zappit

This has domestic written all over it. It might be one lone nut, or it could be a few working together. I just hope they catch whoever did it before they can do it again. I wouldn't be opposed to police brutality in this case, either. This is horrific.

Apr 15, 2013#79

Hailey Knight

WBC has announced they'll be picketing the funerals, saying the bombs are God's punishment for gay marriage (in more colorful language).

Apr 15, 2013#80

Gared

I wouldn't be completely opposed to the government declaring that that's them claiming responsibility for the act and arresting them all.

Apr 15, 2013#81

Covar

Quotemander Prime said:
WBC has announced they'll be picketing the funerals, saying the bombs are God's punishment for gay marriage (in more colorful language).

Related news, water is wet. And that's worth as much attention as any action of the WBC.

Apr 15, 2013#82

ThatNickGuy

Covar said:
what're

I try very hard not to be a grammar Nazi on here sometimes, but...what the hell?

Apr 15, 2013#83

Covar

iPad autocorrect. Fixed now.

Apr 15, 2013#84

Gared

CNN is now reporting that ER doctors are removing ball bearings from people's wounds.

Apr 15, 2013#85

Gilgamesh

There are some seriously graphic images of people without their legs/feet floating around Facebook etc. Yeesh.

Apr 15, 2013#86

LittleSin

Gared said:
CNN is now reporting that ER doctors are removing ball bearings from people's wounds.

Man, that's some IRA level shit.

Apr 15, 2013#87

AshburnerX

LittleSin said:
Man, that's some IRA level shit.

Not really. If it was the IRA, it would be full of rusty nails or broken glass to infect or aggravate the wounds. Ball bearings making it sound more like a Middle Eastern style bomb... bearings give better spread (because you can pack more of them into the bomb) and thus inflict more casualties. They sometimes even coat the bearings in an anti-coagulating agent to prevent the wounds from closing up so quickly. This is as horrible as it sounds.

Regardless, this was done by someone who knew what they were doing.

Apr 15, 2013#88

ThatNickGuy

http://www.boston.com/video/viral_p...OAr8XmRt9Lw9Lza1eXkXEagX8&bctid=2303076923001

A friend of mine just sent me this. I think it's a video from one of the camera guys covering the race itself when the explosions went off. It's shocking, of course, but nothing graphic is seen from what I can tell.[DOUBLEPOST=1366071881][/DOUBLEPOST]And here's something to balance out the bad.

Apr 15, 2013#89

Gared

AshburnerX said:
Not really. If it was the IRA, it would be full of rusty nails or broken glass to infect or aggravate the wounds. Ball bearings making it sound more like a Middle Eastern style bomb... bearings give better spread (because you can pack more of them into the bomb) and thus inflict more casualties. They sometimes even coat the bearings in an anti-coagulating agent to prevent the wounds from closing up so quickly. This is as horrible as it sounds.

Regardless, this was done by someone who knew what they were doing.

Though I have to believe that we're still talking about someone who's relatively inexperienced, or the other devices that were destroyed by EOD teams would've detonated as planned.

Apr 15, 2013#90

CrimsonSoul

ThatNickGuy said:
http://www.boston.com/video/viral_page/?/services/player/bcpid2080955193001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAA6piHY~,DqRT40XOAr8XmRt9Lw9Lza1eXkXEagX8&bctid=2303076923001

A friend of mine just sent me this. I think it's a video from one of the camera guys covering the race itself when the explosions went off. It's shocking, of course, but nothing graphic is seen from what I can tell.[DOUBLEPOST=1366071881][/DOUBLEPOST]And here's something to balance out the bad.

jesus christ

Apr 15, 2013#91

bhamv3

Holy crap, this is some horrifying shit to wake up to.

Just... holy crap.

Apr 15, 2013#92

Cajungal

Found out after leaving work. How horrible...

Apr 15, 2013#93

Dave

I just watched a press conference with authorities. During it, one of the "reporters" kept yelling about how this was a false flag and was faked to undermine our civil liberties. Who let that fucking crackpot in?!?

Apr 15, 2013#94

PatrThom

So far, no claims of responsibility. For all we know, it's a reenactment of the Boston Tea Party to get back at the tax-collecting gubbermint.
Or it could be someone trying to bring attention to the plight of Gitmo/Iran/Afghanistan/War of the Week.
Or it could be revenge for someone getting disqualified/scratched from the Marathon, or who was injured last year and holds the organizers responsible.
Where's Castle? I'm sure he could come up with a few more.

--Patrick

Apr 15, 2013#95

Dave

PatrThom said:
Where's Castle? I'm sure he could come up with a few more.

--Patrick

He'll be on in about an hour. Can't wait!

Apr 15, 2013#96

Gilgamesh

Dave said:
I just watched a press conference with authorities. During it, one of the "reporters" kept yelling about how this was a false flag and was faked to undermine our civil liberties. Who let that fucking crackpot in?!?

The same people who made the videos claiming proof that Newtown was faked and a governement operation with actors.

Apr 15, 2013#97

bhamv3

Dave said:
I just watched a press conference with authorities. During it, one of the "reporters" kept yelling about how this was a false flag and was faked to undermine our civil liberties. Who let that fucking crackpot in?!?

So... all those legs blown off were what, photoshopped?

Fucking asshole.

Apr 15, 2013#98

Dave

bhamv3 said:
So... all those legs blown off were what, photoshopped?

Fucking asshole.

Or it was done by the evil Obama government as an excuse for him to expand his power and not step down when he's supposed to. Yes, that's one of the nutcase bullshit things I've read today.

Apr 15, 2013#99

CrimsonSoul

Sigh. Death toll 3 now. I'm sure it's going to rise even more.[DOUBLEPOST=1366075379][/DOUBLEPOST]

Dave said:
Or it was done by the evil Obama government as an excuse for him to expand his power and not step down when he's supposed to. Yes, that's one of the nutcase bullshit things I've read today.

They said the same thing about Bush and Clinton, and Bush Sr

Apr 15, 2013#100

checkeredhat

Read about this while at work but had to wait until I got home before I could come in here and comment on it. I honestly don't know what to say about it, but I can't just ignore it either.
I don't believe we have any members here in the Boston area, but I hope anyone there or who has family there is safe and unharmed.

Apr 15, 2013#101

Gared

And apparently the twitterverse has taken this blurb by Wolf Blitzer "It is a state holiday in Massachusetts today called Patriots' Day and, uh, who knows if that had anything at all to do with these explosions," to mean that he blames the Tea Party.

Apr 15, 2013#102

Dave

Gared said:
And apparently the twitterverse has taken this blurb by Wolf Blitzer "It is a state holiday in Massachusetts today called Patriots' Day and, uh, who knows if that had anything at all to do with these explosions," to mean that he blames the Tea Party.

If it's home grown terrorism I wouldn't doubt it for a minute. But that's totally and solely my own opinion.

Apr 15, 2013#103

WasabiPoptart

From ABC:

Dr. Ron Walls, chair of emergency medicine at Brigham and Women's Hospital, said doctors did not identify any shrapnel, such as ball bearings, but saw a lot of "street stuff" that had injured their patients.
"Rocks, bits of metal, soda cans, anything that is really close to a blast like that can be fragmented," he said. "Everything we saw was ordinary material that could have been propelled by the device."

Apr 15, 2013#104

Hailey Knight

There's a rumor going around that there was a Facebook page up for this event on Saturday and then taken down today. Anyone know the validity of that?

One would have to be pretty stupid to mark their own terrorist event in advance online.

Apr 15, 2013#105

Gared

That I hadn't heard about, but I did hear on Friday or Saturday about a guy who posted to 4chan that he was going on a practice run for a shooting spree and then went and shot up his community college's satellite campus at a strip mall, wounding two women.

Apr 15, 2013#106

WasabiPoptart

Gared said:
That I hadn't heard about, but I did hear on Friday or Saturday about a guy who posted to 4chan that he was going on a practice run for a shooting spree and then went and shot up his community college's satellite campus at a strip mall, wounding two women.

My husband showed me an article about that over the weekend including screenshots of the 4chan thread as it evolved. Except I think the guy said it was an experiment.

Apr 15, 2013#107

Gared

WasabiPoptart said:
My husband showed me an article about that over the weekend including screenshots of the 4chan thread as it evolved. Except I think the guy said it was an experiment.

Well, hopefully he finds out that the result of that experiment is a very long time in a very miserable jail cell.

Apr 15, 2013#108

Bumble the Boy Wonder

Quotemander Prime said:
There's a rumor going around that there was a Facebook page up for this event on Saturday and then taken down today. Anyone know the validity of that?

One would have to be pretty stupid to mark their own terrorist event in advance online.

I heard about that too, but if it was a fairly new facebook page (I think if it has under 100 likes) you are capable of changing the name of the page.

Someone could have easily made a page over the weekend (just by chance, not with this all in mind) and after this event happened, changed the page title to whatever they had it set as once it was discovered.

Apr 16, 2013#109

Terrik

Gared said:
And apparently the twitterverse has taken this blurb by Wolf Blitzer "It is a state holiday in Massachusetts today called Patriots' Day and, uh, who knows if that had anything at all to do with these explosions," to mean that he blames the Tea Party.

This is the kind of vile, political bullshit that's bursting out of every seam of our current political discourse. Glad Wolf Blitzer took time out of his busy schedule to make a thinly-veiled attack against his perceived political opponents---though I wish he would have at least waited for the blood to dry.

Dave said:
If it's home grown terrorism I wouldn't doubt it for a minute. But that's totally and solely my own opinion.

Well apparently not, because Wolf Blitzer apparently shares the opinion.

Sometimes I wonder if leftists/liberals in America hope and pray that every act of violence/terrorism is caused by a white person/christian/right-winger the same way some Republicans hope the same is caused by an Islamist just to justify their own bias/bigotry against the people they hate. My own facebook page is full of teapots calling kettles black.

Apr 16, 2013#110

Krisken

People have preconceived notions, details at 10:00.

Sad this happened. What a bizarre thing to suddenly see after ignoring the news for the day. My sympathies go out to those directly affected by this senseless act of violence.

Apr 16, 2013#111

bhamv3

Go Anonymous!

Apr 16, 2013#112

Krisken

Two groups of attention whores enter, one group leaves! Enter the Thunderdome!

Apr 16, 2013#113

Gared

Terrik said:
This is the kind of vile, political bullshit that's bursting out of every seam of our current political discourse. Glad Wolf Blitzer took time out of his busy schedule to make a thinly-veiled attack against his perceived political opponents---though I wish he would have at least waited for the blood to dry.

Well apparently not, because Wolf Blitzer apparently shares the opinion.

Sometimes I wonder if leftists/liberals in America hope and pray that every act of violence/terrorism is caused by a white person/christian/right-winger the same way some Republicans hope the same is caused by an Islamist just to justify their own bias/bigotry against the people they hate. My own facebook page is full of teapots calling kettles black.

I'm sorry, but what the fuck are you on about, man? Patriots' Day is the anniversary of the first battle of the revolutionary war. It has extremely little to do with the Boston Tea Party, which happened on December 16th, 1773. The fact that a bunch of people on Twitter jumped all over Blitzer for mentioning the fact that he didn't know if the blasts had anything to do with Patriots' Day because it obviously meant that he was claiming that the Tea Party was behind the bombing today shows how little grasp those people have of history and the real world. If the bombing had happened on July 4th, and Blitzer had said that he didn't know if that date were significant because it was the 4th of July, would that mean he was blaming the Tea Party?

Apr 16, 2013#114

Terrik

Gared said:
I'm sorry, but what the fuck are you on about, man? Patriots' Day is the anniversary of the first battle of the revolutionary war. It has extremely little to do with the Boston Tea Party, which happened on December 16th, 1773. The fact that a bunch of people on Twitter jumped all over Blitzer for mentioning the fact that he didn't know if the blasts had anything to do with Patriots' Day because it obviously meant that he was claiming that the Tea Party was behind the bombing today shows how little grasp those people have of history and the real world. If the bombing had happened on July 4th, and Blitzer had said that he didn't know if that date were significant because it was the 4th of July, would that mean he was blaming the Tea Party?

Wait a second.

*goes back to read Gared's post again*

*and again*

*and one more time*

Ah yes, I see where I misread that. I thought your post meant that Blitzer was implying that it was tea party related, which I took took as an incredibly tasteless comment mere hours after people's limbs were blown off, hence my anger. After reading Dave's post, I assumed I had read correctly.

Apr 16, 2013#115

Gared

Terrik said:
Wait a second.

*goes back to read Gared's post again*

*and again*

*and one more time*

Ah yes, I see where I misread that. I thought your post meant that Blitzer was implying that it was tea party related, which I took took as an incredibly tasteless comment mere hours after people's limbs were blown off, hence my anger. After reading Dave's post, I assumed I had read correctly.

I kinda figured. Sorry for the textual snapping.

Apr 16, 2013#116

bhamv3

There's something I'm wondering. Why does it appear so many legs were blasted off? How come there haven't been pictures of severed hands or arms or other body parts? Can bombs be designed to specifically take out legs?

Apr 16, 2013#117

Grytpipe-Thynne

bhamv3 said:
There's something I'm wondering. Why does it appear so many legs were blasted off? How come there haven't been pictures of severed hands or arms or other body parts? Can bombs be designed to specifically take out legs?

Yes they can, and what is worse for an athlete?

I sympathize with all the victims and hope that the people responsible are quickly caught and suitably punished.

Apr 16, 2013#118

bhamv3

Grytpipe-Thynne said:
Yes they can, and what is worse for an athlete?

That's just... I don't even...

Apr 16, 2013#119

Officer_Charon

bhamv3 said:
That's just... I don't even...

Given the statements from the doctors who have been pulling the shrapnel out, it's to be expected. If the bomb was, indeed in a backpack as was stipulated earlier, any debris kicked out by it was also be at a backpack level, rapidly accelerated. This shrapnel, be it stones, cans, pieces of metal etc, would be travelling extremely rapidly at approximately knee-level. It might rise a little, depending on proximity to the blasts, but it'd follow a shallow parabola. Leg and lower-torso injuries would be the rule.

And small children.

Apr 16, 2013#120

papachronos

Gared said:
That I hadn't heard about, but I did hear on Friday or Saturday about a guy who posted to 4chan that he was going on a practice run for a shooting spree and then went and shot up his community college's satellite campus at a strip mall, wounding two women.

This happened at New River Valley Mall in Christiansburg, Virginia - the closest mall to Virginia Tech - within a week of the anniversary of the Virginia Tech massacre.

Apr 16, 2013#121

Espy

Ugh. This is all just sickening and sad.

Sadly I fear this is homegrown terrorism as well, but no matter who it is it's terrible and I hope they are brought to justice before they can do more harm.

Apr 16, 2013#122

fade

Terrik I had the same thought process about how everyone is saying that it looks domestic, except without the leftist/liberal stipulation. I kind of get the feeling everyone, regardless of political slant, doesn't want to get into another war effort.

Apr 16, 2013#123

Terrik

fade said:
Terrik I had the same thought process about how everyone is saying that it looks domestic, except without the leftist/liberal stipulation. I kind of get the feeling everyone, regardless of political slant, doesn't want to get into another war effort.

I think we can all agree to that.

Apr 16, 2013#124

Espy

Wait, I haven't read through the whole thread yet but people here aren't saying that anyone who thinks this might be homegrown terrorism is an evil liberal who wants it to just that are they? Because thats just silly.

Apr 16, 2013#125

Dave

Espy said:
Wait, I haven't read through the whole thread yet but people here aren't saying that anyone who thinks this might be homegrown terrorism is an evil liberal who wants it to just that are they? Because thats just silly.

No, Wolf Blitzer made a statement that was being spun by the right to be an attack on the Tea Party - which it wasn't. I stated that if it were home-grown, it very well could have been someone from that faction. They are usually the ones who do that kind of stuff. Lefties usually make pamphlets or do sit-ins. It's usually the right that grabs their guns or bombs people. I can't remember the last time there was a leftist attack in the US.

Apr 16, 2013#126

Bubble181

huh, no further news? It happened just as I started work, but don't see much new news appearing anywhere since when I left from work and went to sleep....

Anyway, it is another horrible thing to have happen... Hope they catch whoever did it.

Also, I, too, share the opinion that it seems more local than Islamistic (though the two are, of course, not mutually exclusive). If Al Qaeda was involved, it'd have been a different target.

Apr 16, 2013#127

Krisken

Dave said:
No, Wolf Blitzer made a statement that was being spun by the right to be an attack on the Tea Party - which it wasn't. I stated that if it were home-grown, it very well could have been someone from that faction. They are usually the ones who do that kind of stuff. Lefties usually make pamphlets or do sit-ins. It's usually the right that grabs their guns or bombs people. I can't remember the last time there was a leftist attack in the US.

Yeah, who remembers the Weather Underground.

If we include US embassies, then as recently as February 2nd in Turkey there was a suicide bombing by a leftist group.

Generally I agree, though. Leftist protest groups home grown here in the United States are generally non-violent in their protest methods, possibly due to a difference in the way leaders speak.

Apr 16, 2013#128

Gared

Also this morning, the FBI and other investigative forces say that contrary to yesterday's reports, there were no unexploded devices recovered. Which both makes the job of figuring out who built the bomb more difficult, and makes this somewhat more likely to be just some nutjob with either a grudge or some sick agenda and less likely to be the work of a terror network.

Apr 16, 2013#129

Tress

When I say that I think a domestic terrorist carried out the attack in Boston, I usually think of some scraggly-bearded psycho in the woods, or a militia/cult that's upset because the government won't let them make meth and have 5 child brides. I don't think conservative or liberal. These people aren't really on the sane spectrum.

Apr 16, 2013#130

Krisken

Bubble181 said:
huh, no further news? It happened just as I started work, but don't see much new news appearing anywhere since when I left from work and went to sleep....

Anyway, it is another horrible thing to have happen... Hope they catch whoever did it.

Also, I, too, share the opinion that it seems more local than Islamistic (though the two are, of course, not mutually exclusive). If Al Qaeda was involved, it'd have been a different target.

And they would have claimed bragging rights.

Apr 16, 2013#131

Bubble181

Dave said:
in the US.

Good thing you added that; I was just about to say most non-Al-Qaeda terrorist attacks in Europe over the last 2 decades have come from the left...

We'll see. Whoever is responsible, though, expect further loss of liberty and increased funding and broader powers given to Homeland, FBI, and whatever other agencies see this as an opportunity to grab more power, rather than form a coherent whole.

Apr 16, 2013#132

Gared

We're also up to 176 casualties, 17 in critical condition, and 3 fatalities.

Apr 16, 2013#133

sixpackshaker

I get angry anytime the news organizations put up title-cards and theme music for the latest tragedy. I feel sorry for the son of a bitch that has to write mourning music for the next tragedy.

Apr 16, 2013#134

strawman

They've tried a number of phrases, but the one that's seeming to stick is "marathon bombing"

There was a lengthy press conference this morning wherein all the federal, stay and local officials offered a brief on what they know, what they are doing, and what, if anything, they need from the public.

The reports of additional bombs were false. There were only two bombs, and they both exploded. They currently have 12 blocks cordoned off for forensic research, and will shrink that to 0 in the next two days. Nearly every agency that could be involved is involved and is putting nearly their entire force into this task.

Reports of ball bearings appear to be false. Debris recovered from wounds appears to be consistent with debris from typical blasts picked up from the environment.

Agencies are looking for video and photographic evidence of the area prior to the blast. It suggests they are trying to build up a minute by minute timeline, and find out what was present in the area before the blast.

Apr 16, 2013#135

Gilgamesh

If this person was as smart as they seems and knew what he was doing, he remote detonated so video/photographic evidence for the time prior to the blast is going to be useless. The key will be finding out when the devices were planted, and checking those time frames.

Checking for cellphone usage prior might be useless as well if the remote detonation was also home made and didn't involve a cellphone.

I would also imagine all the cracking down on the airport as well as harbor would be useless if they're smart enough not to bother trying to run at this time. I mean, there not going to be any evidence left over since both explosions went off. This person could just take their time and leave the city leisurely by car a couple of days from now.

Apr 16, 2013#136

Gared

I wish we could get a clear answer on the ball bearings angle. Every time a doctor or hospital rep comes out and says that the reports of ball bearings being packed in the devices was incorrect, the press trots out an "intelligence agent" or "terrorism expert" that's been "briefed on the investigation" who says that there were ball bearings, and now most recently that the devices were made of pressure cookers packed with metal scraps and ball bearings.

Apr 16, 2013#137

sixpackshaker

They are getting these Talking Heads to show up and sprout their bullshit, and the story is changing faster than their "informed opinions."

Really sometimes I think I know more about world terrorism than these blokes that eat up airtime.

Apr 16, 2013#138

strawman

Gared said:
I wish we could get a clear answer on the ball bearings angle. Every time a doctor or hospital rep comes out and says that the reports of ball bearings being packed in the devices was incorrect, the press trots out an "intelligence agent" or "terrorism expert" that's been "briefed on the investigation" who says that there were ball bearings, and now most recently that the devices were made of pressure cookers packed with metal scraps and ball bearings.

Yeah, the latest reports are third hand. A congressional official, who was briefed by federal authorities, said that at least one bomb, and probably both, was a pressure cooker filled with shrapnel and explosives.

Until that's reported by someone with a title at one of the lead organizations, though, it's not much more than story fodder.

It would make sense, though, if the bomb was in the middle of the pot, and shrapnel packed around it, then the explosion would act in all directions, but the shrapnel would fly out at just above ground level, hitting legs and feet.

Apr 16, 2013#139

Dave

Remember me saying something about the guy at the press conference asking about a false flag? Turns out that wacko is "Bionic" Dan Bidondi, an InfoWars radio guy (this station is a conspiracy nutjob place from hell). Here's a site that has all the wacky crap. The video of that press conference is there as well.

http://gawker.com/5994754/false-fla..._source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Apr 16, 2013#140

strawman

Dear Self,

Whenever a national or international incident occurs, take a careful look at ongoing and planned ad campaigns to make sure they don't have new meaning given recent events.

-Self

Apr 16, 2013#141

PatrThom

stienman said:
Dear Self,

Whenever a national or international incident occurs, take a careful look at ongoing and planned ad campaigns to make sure they don't have new meaning given recent events.

-Self

See: Ford Aerostar, Superman Duracell.

--Patrick

Apr 16, 2013#142

jwhouk

Uh oh. Third victim was apparently a Chinese national, a grad student at Boston University.

Apr 16, 2013#143

fade

A friend of a friend helped the sister of Martin Richard, the 8 year old who died. She lost a leg in the bombings.

Apr 17, 2013#144

Dave

So I wonder if these are related. A letter that tested positive for the poison ricin was mailed to a US Senator. And today one was received at the White House addressed to Obama.

Apr 17, 2013#145

strawman

We also had a major power substation taken down in California yesterday due to a high power rifle shooting into the main transformer.

Probably unrelated, but all these little things add up. The letters could have been sent the same day as the bombings and only arrived yesterday and today.

I ce anyone was curious, the circuitry and battery found don't give me any clues. The circuit board contains a bunch of passive components, resistors, capacitors, etc, but the isn't enough left of it to give a function or suggest what it came from. I suspect the federal authorities already have a good idea what type of product or device it came out of already, and are narrowing down what is was before it was repurposed.

The battery in the pictures is part of a rechargeable battery pack strong enough to start the blast.

Apr 17, 2013#146

Gared

Looks like a possible third letter has been recovered from a regional office of Sen. Carl Levin (Mich.).

Apr 17, 2013#147

fade

stienman said:
We also had a major power substation taken down in California yesterday due to a high power rifle shooting into the main transformer.

Probably unrelated, but all these little things add up. The letters could have been sent the same day as the bombings and only arrived yesterday and today.

I ce anyone was curious, the circuitry and battery found don't give me any clues. The circuit board contains a bunch of passive components, resistors, capacitors, etc, but the isn't enough left of it to give a function or suggest what it came from. I suspect the federal authorities already have a good idea what type of product or device it came out of already, and are narrowing down what is was before it was repurposed.

The battery in the pictures is part of a rechargeable battery pack strong enough to start the blast.

Where was that info?

Apr 17, 2013#148

strawman

Substation down:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/17/california-electricity-siliconvalley-idUSL2N0D31PQ20130417

Photos of the circuit board, pressure cooker lid, backpack, and battery which may be related to one or the other of the bombs can be found via google image searches. Restrict results to the last 24 hours, and search for Boston marathon circuit, or battery, or bomb.

The substation doesn't bother me much, though its obviously aiming at a regional technical workforce, so perhaps an effort to damage the tech sector and thus the economy... Maybe?

But the ricin laced letters are worrisome.

Still think the bombs are domestic, though. If they were international someone would be claiming success, and no one is.

Apr 17, 2013#149

Dave

You know what I think? I think 4chan is going to help solve this. They have exhaustively looked at pictures of the event and are painstakingly looking at evidence. It's frankly amazing what they've seen in the hours of footage.[DOUBLEPOST=1366217893][/DOUBLEPOST]Feds have said a few things that I like:

"This will take weeks, not months to solve." and "Substantial progress has been made in the probe."

Apr 17, 2013#150

GasBandit

The substation strikes me as a wanton act of vandalism, perhaps rooted in a general sentiment of either antitech or anarchy in general.

As for the boston bombs... as I said I also think a domestic individual is responsible, but as for whether it's simply an act of misanthropy or a political statement it may be too soon to tell - if the bomber released a statement it might take longer to get out seeing as how the US generally doesn't have an official channel for delivering manifestos, apparently unlike some other countries. Any thought on motive would just be wild speculation at this point.

Apr 17, 2013#151

Charlie Don't Surf

Dave said:
You know what I think? I think 4chan is going to help solve this. They have exhaustively looked at pictures of the event and are painstakingly looking at evidence. It's frankly amazing what they've seen in the hours of footage.

lol

Apr 17, 2013#152

Dave

CNN is reporting they have a suspect.[DOUBLEPOST=1366218822][/DOUBLEPOST]

Charlie Don't Surf said:
lol

And this is funny, why?

Apr 17, 2013#153

Gilgamesh

Dave said:
CNN is reporting they have a suspect.[DOUBLEPOST=1366218822][/DOUBLEPOST]

And this is funny, why?

Because he has no idea what he's talking about. He judges things without actually experiencing or being part of them. Remember?

Apr 17, 2013#154

Gared

More letters, this time to Sen. McCain and Sen. Flake.

Apr 17, 2013#155

strawman

Well it's about time. Boston isn't as bad as the uk in terms of CCTV surveillance, but I imagine that whoever placed the bags wouldn't go unnoticed in camera footage recovered from individuals and businesses nearby.[DOUBLEPOST=1366219092][/DOUBLEPOST]

Gared said:
More letters, this time to Sen. McCain and Sen. Flake.

So far, other than Obama, the people these letters were addressed to have been republicans?

Apr 17, 2013#156

Dave

I just hope they don't pull another Richard Jewel (sp?) or Steven Hatfill. Those guys' lives were ruined forever thanks to "leaks" and being wrongly accused in the eyes of the media.

Apr 17, 2013#157

Gared

stienman said:
Well it's about time. Boston isn't as bad as the uk in terms of CCTV surveillance, but I imagine that whoever placed the bags wouldn't go unnoticed in camera footage recovered from individuals and businesses nearby.[DOUBLEPOST=1366219092][/DOUBLEPOST]

So far, other than Obama, the people these letters were addressed to have been republicans?

That's a big yep.

Apr 17, 2013#158

strawman

The other reason to believe its a lone actor is that federal authorities have stopped many other group efforts at terror attacks over the last decade.

I suspect only a single person or small group that only every met face to face and never used modern technology to communicate plans would have been able to carry this out. It's a small enough attack, though, that it could have easily been managed by one person.

Apr 17, 2013#159

WasabiPoptart

CNN is reporting that a suspect has been identified in the bombing.

Apr 17, 2013#160

strawman

When you put wicker, flake, and McCain together in google, you get immigration bills and gun bills.

But why Obama? He hasn't signed anything these three have been particularly involved in recently, though he has been pushing both immigration and gun issues forward.

Apr 17, 2013#161

fade

WasabiPoptart said:
CNN is reporting that a suspect has been identified in the bombing.

Holy crap, the comments on that article.

Apr 17, 2013#162

Gared

fade said:
Holy crap, the comments on that article.

Never read the comments. Never.

Apr 17, 2013#163

sixpackshaker

fade said:
Holy crap, the comments on that article.

Just don't look at any you tube footage, then read the comments. That has been the worst that I've tripped across so far.

Apr 17, 2013#164

Dave

Arrest made. No more info at this time.

Apr 17, 2013#165

SpecialKO

Gared said:
Never read the comments. Never.

How bad could it be, it's CNN.

*goes to read*

*comes back 30 seconds later*

...well, that escalated...quickly.

Apr 17, 2013#166

sixpackshaker

Arrest has been made. CNN[DOUBLEPOST=1366221380][/DOUBLEPOST]It is like the bus bombings in England, they caught the suspects in 2 days also.

I guess all the, "this investigation is in its infancy..." was to lull the suspect into complacency.

Apr 17, 2013#167

ThatNickGuy

It breaks my heart to see people vilifying Muslims because of a small, extremist minority group (small in comparison to all devote Muslims). It'd be like vilifying every single Christian whenever the Westboro Baptist Church says or does something stupid.

Which is, you know, ANY time Westboro says or does something.

Apr 17, 2013#168

WasabiPoptart

fade said:
Holy crap, the comments on that article.

I have learned not to read the comments because they either make me really angry or sad or both.

Apr 17, 2013#169

Gared

Whoops, CNN jumped the gun, no suspects in custody.

Apr 17, 2013#170

Hailey Knight

I'm getting off the computer for a while. CNN, you do the same.

Apr 17, 2013#171

Dave

:sadtrombone:

Apr 17, 2013#172

Gared

According to Fmr. Asst. FBI Director Tom Fuentes, they have a picture of a suspect. They have no ID, they have not made an arrest.

Apr 17, 2013#173

sixpackshaker

CNN is now confirming that they got it wrong... sorta.

Apr 17, 2013#174

WasabiPoptart

Gared said:
Whoops, CNN jumped the gun, no suspects in custody.

Sorry guys. I should know better than to trust the news outlets to confirm what "sources" tell them.

Apr 17, 2013#175

BananaHands

The Saudi Marathon Man

The product of ignorance and fear-mongering in the United States!

Apr 17, 2013#176

Charlie Don't Surf

I just have serious doubts that 4chan is better at investigating crimes than the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Apr 17, 2013#177

Gared

The Boston Globe reports that the Federal Courthouse and Brigham and Women's Hospital are both being evacuated.

Apr 17, 2013#178

Charlie Don't Surf

Gared said:
The Boston Globe reports that the Federal Courthouse and Brigham and Women's Hospital are both being evacuated.

fuuuck, a good friend of mine works at Brigham

I hope it's just nerves / false alarm

Apr 17, 2013#179

Chad Sexington

Dave said:
And this is funny, why?

Well, like, there's 4chan, which is basically a conglomerate of people with an overinflated sense of ego, and then there's the investigative power of the FBI, so I am doubtful 4chan will help solve this, myself.[DOUBLEPOST=1366226675][/DOUBLEPOST]Ah, I see Charlie beat me to the explanation. Didn't notice the next page.

Apr 17, 2013#180

Dave

Chad Sexington said:
Well, like, there's 4chan, which is basically a conglomerate of people with an overinflated sense of ego, and then there's the investigative power of the FBI, so I am doubtful 4chan will help solve this, myself.[DOUBLEPOST=1366226675][/DOUBLEPOST]Ah, I see Charlie beat me to the explanation. Didn't notice the next page.

To you & Charlie: The FBI is indeed checking into this kind of thing. But they are also asking for pictures and stuff like that. 4chan has shown itself to be very, very good at taking pictures and coming to correct conclusions about the why's and wherefor's. I'm not saying they would do it while the FBI couldn't, but remember it's the FBI that dropped everything to chase Richard Jewel and Dr. Hatfill. They did so to the exclusion of actual evidence and ruined their lives. The scrutiny of 4chan could very well be a deterrent in the mis-identification of a scapegoat.

http://truthinjustice.org/hatfill.htm

Apr 17, 2013#181

Chad Sexington

Dave said:
To you & Charlie: The FBI is indeed checking into this kind of thing. But they are also asking for pictures and stuff like that. 4chan has shown itself to be very, very good at taking pictures and coming to correct conclusions about the why's and wherefor's. I'm not saying they would do it while the FBI couldn't, but remember it's the FBI that dropped everything to chase Richard Jewel and Dr. Hatfill. They did so to the exclusion of actual evidence and ruined their lives. The scrutiny of 4chan could very well be a deterrent in the mis-identification of a scapegoat.

http://truthinjustice.org/hatfill.htm

While obviously the FBI isn't infallible and can, like any organisation or individual, be corrupt, I feel that its scope and training are far and away above those of 4chan. I'm also highly, highly cynical of 4chan and the personality that comes from it, but this is not the thread for that. I'll concede that many more eyes and efforts toward transparency may indeed be beneficial, but I do temper that statement with a level of scepticism.

(Also why and wherefore mean the same thing)

Apr 17, 2013#182

jwhouk

ThatNickGuy said:
It breaks my heart to see people vilifying Muslims because of a small, extremist minority group (small in comparison to all devote Muslims). It'd be like vilifying every single Christian whenever the Westboro Baptist Church says or does something stupid.

Which is, you know, ANY time Westboro says or does something.

This x 1,000,000.

Apr 17, 2013#183

fade

Chad Sexington said:
(Also why and wherefore mean the same thing)

True, but "whys and wherefores" is an idiom. http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/whys+and+wherefores+of

Apr 17, 2013#184

Chad Sexington

fade said:
True, but "whys and wherefores" is an idiom. http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/whys and wherefores of

Oh. I had no idea.

Apr 17, 2013#185

Dave

Chad Sexington said:
Oh. I had no idea.

It's something we old people know.

Apr 17, 2013#186

BananaHands

And get off their lawn, Chad Sexington

Apr 17, 2013#187

Chad Sexington

BananaHands said:
And get off their lawn, Chad Sexington

Okay...

Apr 17, 2013#188

strawman

No, stay on the lawn.

The sprinklers are about to start.

Apr 17, 2013#189

WasabiPoptart

Why I don't trust the internet (4chan included) to find the person or people responsible. Amateur Internet Crowd-Sleuthing

Apr 17, 2013#190

strawman

But vilifying random victims is so much fun!

Do you hate fun, WasabiPoptart? Do you?

Apr 17, 2013#191

Chad Sexington

WasabiPoptart said:
Why I don't trust the internet (4chan included) to find the person or people responsible. Amateur Internet Crowd-Sleuthing

I don't care for Gawker generally, but this:

But one thing is certain: If any of these details turn out to be remotely correct, the 99% that weren't will be ignored and this will become the story of "How Reddit Solved The Boston Marathon Bombing."

is so goddamn true.

Apr 17, 2013#192

Hailey Knight

stienman said:
But vilifying random victims is so much fun!

Do you hate fun, WasabiPoptart? Do you?

GET HER!

Apr 17, 2013#193

Gilgamesh

Dave said:
To you & Charlie: The FBI is indeed checking into this kind of thing. But they are also asking for pictures and stuff like that. 4chan has shown itself to be very, very good at taking pictures and coming to correct conclusions about the why's and wherefor's. I'm not saying they would do it while the FBI couldn't, but remember it's the FBI that dropped everything to chase Richard Jewel and Dr. Hatfill. They did so to the exclusion of actual evidence and ruined their lives. The scrutiny of 4chan could very well be a deterrent in the mis-identification of a scapegoat.

http://truthinjustice.org/hatfill.htm

You might as well have just addressed Chad in that post.

Apr 17, 2013#194

WasabiPoptart

stienman said:
But vilifying random victims is so much fun!

Do you hate fun, WasabiPoptart? Do you?

I am a total party pooper. Just ask my children.

Apr 17, 2013#195

Zappit

Dear Media,

Please only report things when you are absolutely sure they've happened.

Signed,
Everybody

Apr 17, 2013#196

bhamv3

Zappit said:
Dear Media,

Please only report things when you are absolutely sure they've happened.

Signed,
Everybody

Dear Everybody,

We are absolutely sure that "unnamed sources" have "speculated" that "the bombing incident" was caused by a "flying monkey." We can produce evidence of these unnamed sources making this speculation if you want.

Yours truly,
The Media

(My point being they can just pass the buck to whoever they apparently get their info from)

Apr 17, 2013#197

jwhouk

Oh, yeah, like THAT'S gonna happen.

Apr 17, 2013#198

Tress

At some point news outlets stopped worrying about accuracy and instead started worrying about being the first to make a claim or put forth a theory.

Apr 17, 2013#199

Hailey Knight

Tress said:
At some point news outlets stopped worrying about accuracy and instead started worrying about being the first to make a claim or put forth a theory.

Hey, there's a whole 24 hours they gotta fill with news, and another 24 hours after that, and another after that, and so on. What else are they going to fill it with? There just aren't enough facts for a whole day!

Apr 17, 2013#200

Gared

Quotemander Prime said:
Hey, there's a whole 24 hours they gotta fill with news, and another 24 hours after that, and another after that, and so on. What else are they going to fill it with? There just aren't enough facts for a whole day!

Can't they just do what HLN did? Cut back to 9 hours of actual news and 15 hours of Nancy Grace?

Apr 18, 2013#201

Dave

And now we have an explosion at...Waco?!? Coincidence? Since the anniversary of the Branch Davidian thing was April 19, it's certainly interesting at least at the timing of the accident.

Apr 18, 2013#202

GasBandit

West, not waco. In a fertilizer plant. At this point, I'm not discounting accident, there.

Though, West is probably closer to Waco than the Branch Davidian compound actually was... it only got associated with Waco because national reporters don't know Texas geography.

Apr 18, 2013#203

Dave

GasBandit said:
West, not waco. In a fertilizer plant. At this point, I'm not discounting accident, there.

Though, West is probably closer to Waco than the Branch Davidian compound actually was... it only got associated with Waco because national reporters don't know Texas geography.

Yup. And while I seriously don't believe that this is anything other than an accident, man the timing and placement is just weird.

Apr 18, 2013#204

Gared

What can we say? It's been a hell of a week, and we've got three more days of it - or at least 2.66 days. Authorities in West are treating this as purely an accidental fire, and until they say otherwise, I'm going to refrain from speculatively linking it to the Boston bombing or the ricin letters (especially since the suspect in the letter issue has been arrested). One thing I do know, though - ammonia is exceptionally volatile.

Apr 18, 2013#205

DarkAudit

If the VFD was putting water on the fire, chances of an explosion went up dramatically. According to experts on the Today show this morning, water and ammonia in a fire situation is a recipe for disaster.

Apr 18, 2013#206

Dave

Oh, and I take back what i say about 4chan. They are now going full conspiracy theory saying that Navy Seals did this - specifically a Mercenary-style group called Craft International. They are saying this is a false flag to take away from (among other things) CISPA and a report on American torture.

So...yeah. Never mind.

Apr 18, 2013#207

fade

To be clear on the letters, the posts above list a lot more than the news was reporting. They reported Obama and Wicker, but not the others.

Apr 18, 2013#208

PatrThom

Are we sure that's not just 4chan's cover story, so they can still move about unmolested?

We must go deeper...

--Patrick

Apr 18, 2013#209

Espy

Oh man you mean 4chan didn't solve the crime? Man, I am shocked.

Apr 18, 2013#210

Gared

fade said:
To be clear on the letters, the posts above list a lot more than the news was reporting. They reported Obama and Wicker, but not the others.

Yeah, the rest were apparently just suspicious packages that turned out to be regular mail. It's like those 3 or 4 unexploded bombs that EOD teams dismantled in Boston that didn't actually exist.

Apr 18, 2013#211

Chad Sexington

Espy said:
Oh man you mean 4chan didn't solve the crime? Man, I am shocked.

I imagined you saying this like Louis:

Apr 18, 2013#212

Dave

Espy said:
Oh man you mean 4chan didn't solve the crime? Man, I am shocked.

If you've been following the threads/pictures, 4chan has isolated a lot of possible suspects. I can't say how I know this, but I do know that some authorities have been reviewing these pictures and analysis alongside their own investigations. So it was not out of the realm of possibility that 4chan could have been a help. But as usual, they went full retard. (A term which I really hate, by the way. But I don't know a better way to say it.)

Apr 18, 2013#213

WasabiPoptart

Dave said:
But as usual, they went full /b/.

Better?

Apr 18, 2013#214

fade

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...utiful-rendition-of-national-anthem?hpt=hp_t2

Apr 18, 2013#215

sixpackshaker

I do have to say that every MLB team playing "Sweet Caroline" choked me up a bit.

Apr 18, 2013#216

WasabiPoptart

This is such a damn shame. (And another link here.)The NY Post put this 17 year old's picture on their cover with a headline heavily implying that he and another person pictured with him were wanted by the FBI for the bombing. Then the NY Post admits they aren't sure if it is really these two guys who are being sought. Idiots.

Apr 18, 2013#217

jwhouk

The FBI just released photos of the two suspects.

They are wearing what appears to be Bridgestone Golf hats - one white, one black.

Apr 18, 2013#218

Dave

jwhouk said:
The FBI just released photos of the two suspects.

They are wearing what appears to be Bridgestone Golf hats - one white, one black.

One of the many 4chan pictures (before they went full /b/).

Apr 18, 2013#219

Chad Sexington

Dave said:
One of the many 4chan pictures (before they went full /b/).

They circled basically anyone holding a bag. This is like playing "Pick a number between 1 and 10," 4chan guessing nine numbers, and when one of those numbers turns up, going "WE TOTALLY CALLED IT."

Apr 18, 2013#220

jwhouk

The guy in the photos wasn't wearing a gray/green hat. And that photo is taken post-blast (look at the window).

Apr 18, 2013#221

Dave

jwhouk said:
The guy in the photos wasn't wearing a gray/green hat. And that photo is taken post-blast (look at the window).

Damn, you're right. Oh well. I thought they had something.

Apr 18, 2013#222

Chad Sexington

As I previously quoted with confidence

But one thing is certain: If any of these details turn out to be remotely correct, the 99% that weren't will be ignored and this will become the story of "How Reddit Solved The Boston Marathon Bombing."

Reddit may be replaced with your social media ~~egoists~~ heroes of choice.

Apr 18, 2013#223

ThatNickGuy

These are apparently the two suspects the FBI have at the moment.

Apr 18, 2013#224

strawman

IF ONLY WE COULD ZOOM INTO A REFLECTING SURFACE AND GET A PERFECT HD QUALITY IMAGE OF THEIR FACE LIKE ON ALL THE TV SHOWS THEN RUN IT THROUGH A DATABASE THAT JUST HAPPENS TO HAVE EVERYONE'S FACE IN IT ALONG WITH ENOUGH INFORMATION TO CAPTURE THEM.

Considering the quality of most store camas, these are actually fantastic images. Probably took a lot of processing just to get this far.

Apr 18, 2013#225

Ravenpoe

stienman said:
IF ONLY WE COULD ZOOM INTO A REFLECTING SURFACE AND GET A PERFECT HD QUALITY IMAGE OF THEIR FACE LIKE ON ALL THE TV SHOWS THEN RUN IT THROUGH A DATABASE THAT JUST HAPPENS TO HAVE EVERYONE'S FACE IN IT ALONG WITH ENOUGH INFORMATION TO CAPTURE THEM.

Considering the quality of most store camas, these are actually fantastic images. Probably took a lot of processing just to get this far.

Pfft, that's easy. I'll show you.

Zoom in...

Now, enhance.

You're welcome.

Apr 18, 2013#226

Tress

If you're having problems getting their pictures to come up, just type faster. Works every time on NCIS.

Apr 18, 2013#227

WasabiPoptart

I forget what movie or show I was watching that made fun of how cops shows improve photos. It went something like... "Enhance. <type type type> Enhance! <type type type> Enhance!! <type typetype>"

Apr 18, 2013#228

sixpackshaker

Apr 18, 2013#229

Tress

WasabiPoptart said:
I forget what movie or show I was watching that made fun of how cops shows improve photos. It went something like... "Enhance. <type type type> Enhance! <type type type> Enhance!! <type typetype>"

Apr 18, 2013#230

WasabiPoptart

THANK YOU Tress! I can't believe I blanked on Super Troopers. :cry:

Apr 18, 2013#231

Silent Bob

fade said:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...utiful-rendition-of-national-anthem?hpt=hp_t2

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

Apr 19, 2013#232

drifter

Shit's going down at MIT; ~~two~~ one cop dead, reports of explosives, ~~and at least one suspect in custody~~ (suspect released, apparently a bystander?). Rumblings that it's connected to the marathon bombing, but it's too early to tell.

Apr 19, 2013#233

WasabiPoptart

drifter said:
Rumblings that it's connected to the marathon bombing, but it's too early to tell.

I have been wondering if it'll be connected or if this is just more insanity.

Apr 19, 2013#234

Frank

This twitter account's owner lives on the street of this shit going down. Has a ton of pictures.

https://twitter.com/AKitz

Apr 19, 2013#235

DarkAudit

WasabiPoptart said:
I have been wondering if it'll be connected or if this is just more insanity.

Apparently connected. One suspect dead, another (the one in the white hat) still at large.

Apr 19, 2013#236

WasabiPoptart

Something I saw on Twitter just now said the are evacuating part of Watertown.

Apr 19, 2013#237

bhamv3

Second guy's apparently dead too now.

Apr 19, 2013#238

Dave

I haven't seen where the second guy has died. Reports are still just the one. Man, this is what I get for sleeping!

Apr 19, 2013#239

Dave

Apparently the two are Russian brothers - which throws everything off kilter. Not middle-eastern like some thought, not home-grown white terrorist like some thought (& some apparently hoped it would be). I hope suspect #2 gets caught and not killed. I really hope we find out what their twisted reasoning is.

Apr 19, 2013#240

jwhouk

Chechnyan.

Apr 19, 2013#241

Dave

Russian born Chechnyans.

And I'm listening to a Boston PD feed, they are in a foot chase with the guy, they are getting him trapped and are being very careful as he's probably wearing a suicide vest. Facebook page for the guy updated mobile says "Time to die. I didn't want this. I was forced into it." I'm not linking because it's too damned easy to fake and the chances of it real are kinda small...even though the account was set up in 2010.[DOUBLEPOST=1366375209][/DOUBLEPOST]They are going to tactical comm which means they are probably switching to a different channel that is inaccessible from a scanner. Damn!

Apr 19, 2013#242

fade

Everything is locked down in Boston.

Apr 19, 2013#243

sixpackshaker

Chechnya is a part of Russia that wants to be its own nation. They have a long history of terrorism inside Russia. Russia has a long history of carpet bombing the area in retaliation.

Since these guys were basically raised in America, I'll go out on a limb and say that they are more a part of International Jihadist, than Chechen Rebels making a point.

Apr 19, 2013#244

Dave

HOLY SHIT!!

On the Boston PD radio a voice just cut in and said, "I will kill you all like you killed my brother!"

Apr 19, 2013#245

fade

The cop who was killed was sitting in his car.

Apr 19, 2013#246

sixpackshaker

Interesting post to Yahoo! News feed.

Jeff Greenfield said:
Here is the key news from the Mother Jones' link: Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the 26 year-old brother of the second Boston bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, had a YouTube page where he posted religious videos, including a video of Feiz Mohammad, a fundamentalist Australian Muslim preacher who rails against the evils of Harry Potter. Among those videos is one dedicated to the prophecy of the Black Banners of Khurasan which is embraced by Islamic extremists—particularly Al Qaeda. The videos posted on what appears to be Tsarnaev's YouTube page may shed light on the motivations for the attack on the Boston Marathon. The prophecy states that an invincible army will come from the region of "Khurasan," a large portion of territory in central Asia.

"This is a major hadith (reported saying of the prophet Muhammad) that jihadis use, it is essentially an end-time prophecy," says Aaron Zelin, a fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy "This is definitely important in Al Qaeda's ideology." In The Black Banners, former FBI agent Ali Soufan's book about his pursuit of Al Qaeda that is named after this prophecy, Soufan describes the prophecy this way:

Khurasan is a term for a historical region spanning northeastern and eastern Iran and parts of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, and northwestern Pakistan. Because of the hadith, jihadists believe that this is the region from which they will inflict a major defeat against their enemies—in the Islamic version of Armageddon.

The older Tsarnaev seems to have posted the video four months ago under the username "muazseyfullah." According to Zelin, "Mu'az is usually a name," and "Sayf Allah means sword of God."

Apr 19, 2013#247

fade

Slate made the point that this guy is literally Caucasian.

Apr 19, 2013#248

sixpackshaker

fade said:
Slate made the point that this guy is literally Caucasian.

That was the first thing I thought too when they said they were Chechen.

Apr 19, 2013#249

bhamv3

Dave said:
I haven't seen where the second guy has died. Reports are still just the one. Man, this is what I get for sleeping!

Yeah I jumped the gun there. Second guy is not dead. I was following the Reddit thread and was misled. M'bad.

Apr 19, 2013#250

Dave

Boston scanner just taken offline. Fuck!

Apr 19, 2013#251

Gilgamesh

Conservative Radio this morning just turned my stomach. It's all about how the government is really making all this up and these two are innocent bystanders of the Obama regime. They said that the girlfriend of the bomber is being questioned right now to make sure she'll go along with the government cover-up or if they'll have to kill her too.

I'm seriously sick to my stomach atm.

Apr 19, 2013#252

Frank

I'm literally ill reading about and listening to this stuff. I am nauseous right now.

Apr 19, 2013#253

DarkAudit

Gilgamesh said:
Conservative Radio this morning just turned my stomach. It's all about how the government is really making all this up and these two are innocent bystanders of the Obama regime. They said that the girlfriend of the bomber is being questioned right now to make sure she'll go along with the government cover-up or if they'll have to kill her too.

I'm seriously sick to my stomach atm.

Unless it's your job to monitor such excrement, why on earth are you listening to it?

Apr 19, 2013#254

strawman

Just called my brother. He lives 20-30 minutes south of Boston, so outside the area of concern, but all the schools and most businesses are closed simply because so many people live in the area that's locked down.

He said over the last few days there's been a palpable feeling of passionate anger towards whoever did this, bordering on lynch mob mentality, area-wide. They're still taking the kids out to the park and so forth, treating it as a family day, they feel safe, but of course this is their "back yard" so I can only imagine what's below the surface emotionally.

radioreference (scanner feeds) is pretty much down/swamped. I guess I'll wait for news like the rest of the plebes.[DOUBLEPOST=1366378898][/DOUBLEPOST]

Gilgamesh said:
Conservative Radio

Is this a specific radio show, or are you just referring to your local conservative talk station generically? What they're saying is insane.

Apr 19, 2013#255

Dave

Boston scanner is offline, Cambridge is offline & Watertown is offline. Now we have to rely on cable news like CNN. And we all know how good their reporting on the spot is. :rolleyes:

Apr 19, 2013#256

BananaHands

Hey guys, have the younger brother's YouTube channel.

Apr 19, 2013#257

Dave

Apparently they robbed someplace last night. So even though they grew up with money, apparently right now they don't have any.

Apr 19, 2013#258

Covar

stienman said:
Just called my brother. He lives 20-30 minutes south of Boston, so outside the area of concern, but all the schools and most businesses are closed simply because so many people live in the area that's locked down.

He said over the last few days there's been a palpable feeling of passionate anger towards whoever did this, bordering on lynch mob mentality, area-wide. They're still taking the kids out to the park and so forth, treating it as a family day, they feel safe, but of course this is their "back yard" so I can only imagine what's below the surface emotionally.

radioreference (scanner feeds) is pretty much down/swamped. I guess I'll wait for news like the rest of the plebes.[DOUBLEPOST=1366378898][/DOUBLEPOST]

Is this a specific radio show, or are you just referring to your local conservative talk station generically? What they're saying is insane.

Based on time of day I assume he's either listening to the local morning shows or Glenn Beck.

Apr 19, 2013#259

ThatNickGuy

Holy shit, I go to bed after reading something on Twitter about an MIT cop being shot and that it might be related to the bombing. Most damning was that the major news outlets weren't doing a thing about it.

Suddenly I wake up and it's all over the news and that it is, in fact, related to the bombings. Jesus.

Apr 19, 2013#260

AshburnerX

Dave said:
Apparently they robbed someplace last night. So even though they grew up with money, apparently right now they don't have any.

Didn't the Uncle say they had been cut off?

Apr 19, 2013#261

drawn_inward

Comment redacted due to inevitable virtual slap fight that it would cause.

Apr 19, 2013#262

Tress

drawn_inward said:
Gee, I guess they weren't tea-party members after all...

I don't know about anyone else, but it's not really a surprise to me. I just never thought for a moment that Chechen terrorists would bomb a target in the U.S.

Apr 19, 2013#263

drawn_inward

Well shit, Tress.

Apr 19, 2013#264

fade

I don't get the whole "Sorry libs, they're Muslim" bit. I'm seeing it a lot. In what way is that meant to be an antithesis to liberal hopes and dreams? I thought it was a fairly universal desire not to get embroiled in a huge, expensive, dangerous, international, military, religion-based conflict. I guess the idiots on the other side would've said "sorry you can't go bomb brown people" if it happened to be a right wing extremist group, even though one would hope that the desire not to have home-grown terrorists either was universal. Partisanship--no anti-party behavior lately makes my head spin.

Apr 19, 2013#265

Charlie Don't Surf

My motiviations for hoping it's a white guy were as follows: if it's a white guy, no white people in the USA will be discriminated against or targeted for any sort of violence in unwarranted suspicion of being a terrorist.

Apr 19, 2013#266

drawn_inward

fade said:
I don't get the whole "Sorry libs, they're Muslim" bit. I'm seeing it a lot. In what way is that meant to be an antithesis to liberal hopes and dreams? I thought it was a fairly universal desire not to get embroiled in a huge, expensive, dangerous, international, military, religion-based conflict. I guess the idiots on the other side would've said "sorry you can't go bomb brown people" if it happened to be a right wing extremist group, even though one would hope that the desire not to have home-grown terrorists either was universal. Partisanship--no anti-party behavior lately makes my head spin.

I wasn't saying or gloating that they're Muslims. Murder is murder. However, I took issue with comments on this thread about "if they're white then they're likely tea-party members."

However, maybe it's a bit tiring to hear folks knock down conservatives and consider them tantamount to Muslim extremists.[DOUBLEPOST=1366381212][/DOUBLEPOST]

drawn_inward said:
I wasn't saying or gloating that they're Muslims. Murder is murder. However, I took issue with comments on this thread about "if they're white then they're likely tea-party members."

However, maybe it's a bit tiring to hear folks knock down conservatives and consider them tantamount to Muslim extremists.

Also, I've hopefully grown up some since 9/11. I wanted revenge after that. I wanted to see people dead. Had I known what it would lead too, I wouldn't have wished for that. I don't want revenge now. I don't think we need to go bomb Chechnya. I am mostly sad about this situation, but I get angry about some of the ridiculous comments folks make.

Apr 19, 2013#267

Gilgamesh

Your hub for information:
http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1co395/live_updates_of_boston_situation_part_2/

Apr 19, 2013#268

Gared

Apparently, the Connecticut State Police have just put out an APB for a Grey Honda CRV with Massachusetts plates (316ES9), as they believe that the suspect may be in that vehicle.

Apr 19, 2013#269

fade

drawn_inward said:
I wasn't saying or gloating that they're Muslims. Murder is murder. However, I took issue with comments on this thread about "if they're white then they're likely tea-party members."

I didn't really mean to direct that at you. I got what you meant, but I've seen a lot of comments like the one I mentioned around the news articles, and it just reminded me of them. I know--everyone says don't read the comments. But the comments represent an unfiltered view of what a chunk of people are thinking.

Apr 19, 2013#270

drawn_inward

fade said:
I didn't really mean to direct that at you. I got what you meant, but I've seen a lot of comments like the one I mentioned around the news articles, and it just reminded me of them. I know--everyone says don't read the comments. But the comments represent an unfiltered view of what a chunk of people are thinking.

No worries. I'm trying to put my broad-stroke paintbrushes away. It's hard to do.

Apr 19, 2013#271

Gared

That Honda CRV has been recovered in Boston, but it sounds like the younger brother has somehow escaped the police containment area. Police are also hesitant to enter the home that they had surrounded for fear that the place is booby-trapped.

Apr 19, 2013#272

strawman

That's not good...

Apr 19, 2013#273

Dave

They have someone on the ground in cuffs and they say he has something in his hand and it could be a dead-man switch. (From a police scanner.)[DOUBLEPOST=1366383376][/DOUBLEPOST]

Dave said:
They have someone on the ground in cuffs and they say he has something in his hand and it could be a dead-man switch. (From a police scanner.)

Dude had something, but it has nothing to do with the bombing suspect. Just really, really bad timing to be trying something, I guess.

Apr 19, 2013#274

Gared

Pfft. Apparently there's a Staples delivery truck driving through Cambridge, MA right now, trying to make deliveries.[DOUBLEPOST=1366385165][/DOUBLEPOST]And the boys' mother, also living in the US in MA, has a criminal record from recent years... for theft of women's clothing and criminal destruction of property.

Apr 19, 2013#275

Bubble181

Okay...Since I'm not (and can't) follow this as closely as some of you, I'll just hop in to make a few barely-related points in some of the side branches of the conversation.

1. Even if 99% of what 4Chan gives as info is useless, it's still useful. There's such a glut of information these days, that trained professionals can't process everything fast enough - you don't need a good FBI trained superagent to go through 4 hours of video from 200 different cameras. If a bunch of nitwits can filter through and strike off even half of those images, that's a huge gain in time of actual agents saved versus time of late-night-4-channers wasted.

2.. Saying Chechnya is a part of Russia is...painful. It's like saying Tibet is a part of China. Chechnyans have been calling for independence since the USSR fell, Russians have been suppressing them since. Yes, the Chechnyan rebels/opposition are muslim warriors who don't mind killing innocents, and I'm not defending them, really, but please. Chechnya is an independent region, annexed by the USSR and suppressed by Russia. Many other outlying regions were able to break free, Chechnya has failed. Partially as a result, Chechnyan nationalists and jihadi warriors have teamed up and the place these days is the perfect breeding ground for zealot idiots willing to kill anything and anyone to get what they want.

Apr 19, 2013#276

SpecialKO

I'm hoping they get the second guy without him blowing himself up or otherwise getting killed. It would be nice to have some answers, even if it just turns out that they were alienated kids who snapped and turned thrill-killers.

Apr 19, 2013#277

Gilgamesh

SpecialKO said:
I'm hoping they get the second guy without him blowing himself up or otherwise getting killed. It would be nice to have some answers, even if it just turns out that they were alienated kids who snapped and turned thrill-killers.

It's clear there's muslim connection with the oldest brother at least, so I'm going to bet there's religious reasons for this. Maybe not the full reason for the younger involved but there is some tie.

Apr 19, 2013#278

SpecialKO

Gilgamesh said:
It's clear there's muslim connection with the oldest brother at least, so I'm going to bet there's religious reasons for this. Maybe not the full reason for the younger involved but there is some tie.

There may be a jihadist connection with the older brother (tough to tell, at the rate that twitters/FB accounts are being found and shown as fake), but of course there's a Muslim connection - they're Chechens. Once that was established, the odds were pretty high that they were Muslim, which by itself doesn't mean much.

Apr 19, 2013#279

Gared

Apparently 15 officers were taken to the hospital following the police chase into Watertown. Also, apparently the elder brother died not only of wounds sustained during the police chase, but also of shrapnel wounds from ~~the original bombing at the marathon~~ an explosion that he may have triggered.

Apr 19, 2013#280

sixpackshaker

Al-Qaeda has been recruiting kids like these for years. I hope it is not true, but we are likely to find some travel overseas to Pakistan, Yemen or Chechnya. Where they were trained.

Apr 19, 2013#281

strawman

CNN is reporting that photographs from the bombing show that they hung around to watch them go off and the resulting death and destruction.

I'm a bit torn on whether I'd like to see him make it to trial. We're not liable to gain any understanding that would help us prevent future attacks such as this, and all we'd be doing is giving him a grandstand.

I doubt he wants to be taken alive, but honestly that's the best thing for him. Even if he got the death penalty, only three people have actually been killed out of over 70 convicted in federal courts.

Even mcveigh lived 6 years after his initial conviction, and he wanted to be put to death. Given the feelings in the US, I doubt he'd find a place he could live as comfortably as a maximum security prison on death row.

If he does elude authorities, though, he's just going to try to make a bigger impact at his next attempt. He may be a smart guy, but I'd be surprised if he was able to find shelter inside or outside the country.

And obviously he's not too smart anyway, given that he allowed people to take his picture at the scene of the crime, and hung around long enough for it to be taken a few hundred more times.[DOUBLEPOST=1366388201][/DOUBLEPOST]

sixpackshaker said:
Al-Qaeda has been recruiting kids like these for years. I hope it is not true, but we are likely to find some travel overseas to Pakistan, Yemen or Chechnya. Where they were trained.

Actually the Diane rehm show this morning pointed out that jihadists are recruiting via the Internet these days. Video, articles, etc that attempt to convince youth of the error of the US, and then providing information they can act on to cause terror.

It may be that they spent time abroad, but its quite possible these days to be converted completely online.

Apr 19, 2013#282

SpecialKO

Could have been before they arrived as well. If the news reports are right about them arriving in 2003 or something, the were easily old enough to have been trained in Chechnya.

Apr 19, 2013#283

DarkAudit

Their uncle has the most likely explanation, "being losers!"

Apr 19, 2013#284

SpecialKO

DarkAudit said:
Their uncle has the most likely explanation, "being losers!"

Saw that.

It might have been pushed off the update page by this point, but apparently the dad in Russia is claiming that the US Secret Service framed his sons because they were Muslim.

Appparently, the two sides of the family don't see eye to eye on things.

Apr 19, 2013#285

strawman

SpecialKO said:
Could have been before they arrived as well. If the news reports are right about them arriving in 2003 or something, the were easily old enough to have been trained in Chechnya.

They were 9 and eleven in 2003. They could have been trained, but it seems unlikely that they would have laid low this entire time, particularly since they could have had a much bigger impact as child bombers in school at that time, which Chechnya was still just a few fights away from breaking free.

But if this is true, then they've been groomed this entire time. I expect, however, it would have been hard to train them, and then hold them back as teenagers. More likely that things weren't going well for them in the US very recently, and they sought out purpose in lives they didn't feel fit them, and found it online with radicals.

Now, see, they should have become Mormons instead..

Apr 19, 2013#286

Charlie Don't Surf

Gilgamesh said:
Your hub for information:
http://www.reddit. [/quote]

No.

Apr 19, 2013#287

Chad Sexington

stienman said:
Now, see, they should have become Mormons instead..

Mormons?! But those guys are crazy.

...Oh hi, stienman, I didn't see you there.

Just, uh... I'm just here, having a ~~coffee~~ tea! A NICE HERBAL TEA. How's things? Good, good, I just, I have a thing, I'd stay, but...

Apr 19, 2013#288

SpecialKO

stienman said:
They were 9 and eleven in 2003. They could have been trained, but it seems unlikely that they would have laid low this entire time, particularly since they could have had a much bigger impact as child bombers in school at that time, which Chechnya was still just a few fights away from breaking free.

But if this is true, then they've been groomed this entire time. I expect, however, it would have been hard to train them, and then hold them back as teenagers. More likely that things weren't going well for them in the US very recently, and they sought out purpose in lives they didn't feel fit them, and found it online with radicals.

Now, see, they should have become Mormons instead..

I don't mean "trained" in the "radicalized to Salafism" kind of way, but in the "learned how to make bombs" kinds of way, but fair point.

Apr 19, 2013#289

Dave

They have surrounded a house and say they are communicating with someone inside. Who & what is not clear at this time.

Apr 19, 2013#290

Gilgamesh

Charlie Don't Surf said:
No.

Obviously not for you, can't offend your delicate disconnection with reality with actual facts. We've all seen how you react to actual first hand knowledge of things you have third hand knowledge of but preach to anyway

Apr 19, 2013#291

strawman

Alleged suspects twitter has been updated since the bombing, but not since last night.

Check http://twitter.com/J_tsar for some possibly interesting reading.

Apr 19, 2013#292

Charlie Don't Surf

here are some facts about how Reddit didn't help things at all:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22214511

Apr 19, 2013#293

Dave

Dude does not tweet like a bomber. He's mostly denigrating the WBC for their hate, if I'm reading that correctly. Are we sure that's really his? The tone just seems too mellow for something like this.

Apr 19, 2013#294

strawman

Dave said:
Dude does not tweet like a bomber. He's mostly denigrating the WBC for their hate, if I'm reading that correctly. Are we sure that's really his? The tone just seems too mellow for something like this.

Of course we aren't sure. I picked it up in a CNN article with people who claim to have been his friend recently, who claim that this is his twitter.

Doesn't mean much, and obviously he wouldn't tweet anything specific if he didn't want to get caught.

Could also be someone completely different.

Bt either way, it's going to be gone soon enough if it is him, and so I wanted to give people a chance to read it and draw their own conclusions in case it is connection with this case.

Apr 19, 2013#295

Gilgamesh

Charlie Don't Surf said:
here are some facts about how Reddit didn't help things at all:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22214511

There's about 40 ways it did in my link

Apr 19, 2013#296

Dave

stienman said:
Of course we aren't sure. I picked it up in a CNN article with people who claim to have been his friend recently, who claim that this is his twitter.

Doesn't mean much, and obviously he wouldn't tweet anything specific if he didn't want to get caught.

Could also be someone completely different.

Bt either way, it's going to be gone soon enough if it is him, and so I wanted to give people a chance to read it and draw their own conclusions in case it is connection with this case.

It's hard to reconcile the stoner "bro" tone of the tweets with the mindset of someone who would do this. I've known some pretty deranged individuals and unless this guy is a real sociopath, I can't make the connection. It's just odd as fuck.[DOUBLEPOST=1366394732][/DOUBLEPOST]

Gilgamesh said:
There's about 40 ways it did in my link

Actually, I see Charlie's point and yours. Reddit & 4chan did go full /b/ and got it wrong, but that doesn't mean that they didn't bring anything to the table. Alternately, even authorities do the same thing. I blame the mainstream media as much as Redditchan, as they are supposed to be verifying sources and news.[DOUBLEPOST=1366394985][/DOUBLEPOST]Their aunt is on CNN right now. She is WHACKED OUT!

Apr 19, 2013#297

fade

I could buy the aloofness. It seems that he detached himself from society. Looks like he built walls by claiming things like not understanding Americans, which conflicts with accounts that he was happy and friendly in school.

Apr 19, 2013#298

Dave

fade said:
I could buy the aloofness. It seems that he detached himself from society. Looks like he built walls by claiming things like not understanding Americans, which conflicts with accounts that he was happy and friendly in school.

But he doesn't come off as aloof. He comes off - to me at least - as a stoner bro.

Apr 19, 2013#299

WasabiPoptart

Dave said:
Dude does not tweet like a bomber.

And how exactly does a bomber Tweet?

Hai guise! Imma blow shit up! #fukyeah #BOOM

Apr 19, 2013#300

sixpackshaker

WasabiPoptart said:
And how exactly does a bomber Tweet?

Hai guise! Imma blow shit up! #fukyeah #BOOM

SSSHHHHHH.... echelon is listening.

Apr 19, 2013#301

GasBandit

fade said:
I don't get the whole "Sorry libs, they're Muslim" bit. I'm seeing it a lot. In what way is that meant to be an antithesis to liberal hopes and dreams?

Just about every terrorist incident since 2008 in the US has had some public figure, either in government or the media, come out and either insinuate or flat out claim that the perpetrator was a member of the tea party. The time square bomber? Bloomberg postulated on camera that it might be "somebody who doesn't like the health care bill or something." The colorado movie theater shooting? "We found his name on a list of registered tea party members. Oops, that was someone else, never mind." When Congresswoman Giffords was shot and was being rushed to the hospital, her husband was asked if she had any enemies, and he said "Yeah, the whole tea party." And now, of course, in this very thread you heard about how Wolf Blitzer said-but-didn't-say it was probably somebody having their own boston tea party.

So, yeah. That. Liberals are desperate for some act of violence they can pin on the tea party.

Apr 19, 2013#302

Dave

WasabiPoptart said:
And how exactly does a bomber Tweet?

Hai guise! Imma blow shit up! #fukyeah #BOOM

They rant about stuff. They espouse their beliefs. They write manifestos. They have an opinion about things. This guy? Tweets more like he's the Dude.

Apr 19, 2013#303

Charlie Don't Surf

GasBandit said:
When Congresswoman Giffords was shot and was being rushed to the hospital, her husband was asked if she had any enemies, and he said "Yeah, the whole tea party." .

To be fair, the Arizona Tea Party or a similar group LITERALLY released a mailer with her face in crosshairs before the shooting occurred.

Apr 19, 2013#304

WasabiPoptart

Dave said:
They rant about stuff. They espouse their beliefs. They write manifestos. They have an opinion about things. This guy? Tweets more like he's the Dude.

There could be plenty of reasons why he seemed one way on his Twitter account and is involved in something that doesn't seem like he should be a part of. Looking at one small facet of his life is not going to show the bigger picture. It's not like we have ever seen any examples of people who act one way online and are completely the opposite in real life.

Apr 19, 2013#305

fade

GasBandit said:
So, yeah. That. Liberals are desperate for some act of violence they can pin on the tea party.

So some loudmouths on TV represent all liberals?

Apr 19, 2013#306

GasBandit

fade said:
So some loudmouths on TV represent all liberals?

They represent the liberals addressed by the "sorry, liberals" commentary.[DOUBLEPOST=1366397285][/DOUBLEPOST]

Charlie Don't Surf said:
To be fair, the Arizona Tea Party or a similar group LITERALLY released a mailer with her face in crosshairs before the shooting occurred.

Actually, no.

This is the graphic you're remembering incorrectly:

Her "face" was not "literally" in crosshairs, rather her district was marked with one, which was completely innocuous. The whole "crosshairs" thing was a laughing stock because it led into the whole "divisive rhetoric" whine that democrats went on for a couple weeks before they went back to doing the exact same thing again.

Apr 19, 2013#307

Krisken

fade said:
So some loudmouths on TV represent all liberals?

Of course, just like all Libertarians are represented by Glenn Beck.

Apr 19, 2013#308

fade

GasBandit said:
They represent the liberals addressed by the "sorry, liberals" commentary.

Well, them, and the made up strawman liberals that only exist in the commenters' heads.

Krisken said:
Of course, just like all Libertarians are represented by Glenn Beck.

No argument there. Could substitute any ideology, be it political, religious, sports, you name it.

Apr 19, 2013#309

Krisken

fade said:
Well, them, and the made up strawman liberals that only exist in the commenters' heads.

No argument there. Could substitute any ideology, be it political, religious, sports, you name it.

Exactly.

Apr 19, 2013#310

jwhouk

This guy just hates running and the Boston Red Sox.

Apr 19, 2013#311

Charlie Don't Surf

Alright, not face, but name. That's still pretty awful.

Apr 19, 2013#312

strawman

Charlie Don't Surf said:
Alright, not face, but name. That's still pretty awful.

Because crosshairs were never used before guns, and the only reason to use crosshairs is to point out a shooting target.

Right.

Apr 19, 2013#313

Charlie Don't Surf

stienman said:
Because crosshairs were never used before guns, and the only reason to use crosshairs is to point out a shooting target.

Right.

I. uh. what? Crosshairs are usually associated with gun sights? I think you're being sarcastic, but I unironically agree?

Apr 19, 2013#314

Gilgamesh

stienman said:
Because crosshairs were never used before guns, and the only reason to use crosshairs is to point out a shooting target.

Right.

Cmon now, don't be mean. His ignorance is the cornerstone of his position on any given subject

Apr 19, 2013#315

strawman

Gilgamesh said:
Cmon now, don't be mean. His ignorance is the cornerstone of his position on any given subject

I just feel bad for medical doctors who use crosshairs to mark surgical sites, survey crews preparing documentation for land usage using survey equipment, contractors that use laser line levels to place crosshairs on a structure to make sure it's installed on the level, etc.

I mean, it must eat them up inside knowing that every day on the job is a day they are nailing America's coffin shut by participating in our bloody gun culture.

Fortunately few people use sextants anymore, so at least we've been able to root one major contributor to our nation's murder rate from our culture.

Apr 19, 2013#316

Krisken

This pointless distraction from the actual events is brought to you by Summer's Eve Douche. When something gets stuck right up in your nether region, use Summer's Eve Douche to wash it right out.

Apr 19, 2013#317

Zappit

People died. Fifteen cops were injured in a shoot out and a massive manhunt is shutting down the east end of Massachssetts. Now is the PERFECT time to be smug over really pissy little things, amirite?

Apr 19, 2013#318

fade

Bleh. The comments on NPR. People are all up in arms about the lockdown, calling it a preview of things to come, blah blah blah. Makes me wonder what their ideal way would have been to handle it.

Apr 19, 2013#319

GasBandit

Zappit said:
People died. Fifteen cops were injured in a shoot out and a massive manhunt is shutting down the east end of Massachssetts. Now is the PERFECT time to be smug over really pissy little things, amirite?

Whoa whoa whoa FIFTEEN COPS were injured in the shootout?! I'd only heard one... where did you read this?

Apr 19, 2013#320

Gared

GasBandit said:
Whoa whoa whoa FIFTEEN COPS were injured in the shootout?! I'd only heard one... where did you read this?

http://www.wbur.org/2013/04/15/live...at-least-15-police-officers-injured-overnight

Apr 19, 2013#321

GasBandit

Gared said:
http://www.wbur.org/2013/04/15/live...at-least-15-police-officers-injured-overnight

Hospital spokesman Chris Murphy describes their wounds as primarily "musculoskeletal," such as "abrasions, bruises, strains, sprains and fall injuries."

What "15 cops injured in a shootout" implies: 15 cops SHOT
What happened: 15 cops trip, fall, skin knees, sprain ankles, generally out of shape.

Apr 19, 2013#322

Dave

GasBandit said:
What "15 cops injured in a shootout" implies: 15 cops SHOT
What happened: 15 cops trip, fall, skin knees, sprain ankles, generally out of shape.

The kid tried to run them over and they had to get the fuck out the way. I know all cops are donut-eating morons, but they should have just eaten a bumper, right?

Apr 19, 2013#323

Gared

Dave said:
The kid tried to run them over and they had to get the fuck out the way. I know all cops are donut-eating morons, but they should have just eaten a bumper, right?

Not to mention the grenade and 5 pipe bombs (3 of which detonated) the suspects were lobbing out the car windows as they fled from the cops. They should have eaten those too.

Apr 19, 2013#324

GasBandit

Dave said:
The kid tried to run them over and they had to get the fuck out the way. I know all cops are donut-eating morons, but they should have just eaten a bumper, right?

You're missing the point. The point is when Zappit decided to throw cold water on the thread, he did it with an unqualified "15 cops injured in a shootout," which implies gunshot wounds, when most of those cops got sprains and scrapes and were back on duty same day (and ALL of them were to be discharged by the end of today).

Yes, try to make sure stienman and gil look like unfeeling monsters because of boo boos.

Apr 19, 2013#325

strawman

But... I am an unfeeling monster!

To spiders, at least.[DOUBLEPOST=1366409107][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh wait, sorry to imply that perspective is useful.

Apr 19, 2013#326

Gared

Shelter in doors order for Boston has been lifted, Transit operations to resume, effective immediately. Suspect remains at large.

Apr 19, 2013#327

WasabiPoptart

Dave said:
They rant about stuff. They espouse their beliefs. They write manifestos. They have an opinion about things. This guy? Tweets more like he's the Dude.

Interesting read on this very subject.

Apr 19, 2013#328

GasBandit

WasabiPoptart said:
Interesting read on this very subject.

That guy made an interesting point, that a lot of terrorists don't become extremists until they are expatriates and spend time with other expatriates in the US, for example in mosques. In that vein, here's what the president of Chechnya has to say:

The events that took place in Boston are tragic. People have been killed as a result of a terrorist act. Earlier we expressed our condolences to the residents of the city and to the American people. Today, according to media reports, during an arrest attempt a certain Tsarnaev was killed. It would have made sense to arrest him and carry out an investigation, clarify all the circumstances and his degree of guilt. Evidently, the security services needed a result at any price in order to calm the populace. Any attempt to link Chechnya and the Tsarnaevs, if indeed they are guilty, are futile. They grew up in the USA, their viewpoints and beliefs were formed there. You must look for the roots of [their] evil in America. Terrorism must be fought everywhere. We know this better than anyone. We wish all the victims a [speedy] recovery and share in Americans’ grief. #terroristact #Boston #consequence

Apr 19, 2013#329

Zappit

GasBandit said:
You're missing the point. The point is when Zappit decided to throw cold water on the thread, he did it with an unqualified "15 cops injured in a shootout," which implies gunshot wounds, when most of those cops got sprains and scrapes and were back on duty same day (and ALL of them were to be discharged by the end of today).

Yes, try to make sure stienman and gil look like unfeeling monsters because of boo boos.

People don't need my help to make themselves look bad, Gas. I said fifteen were injured because fifteen were injured. So the injuries weren't gunshot wounds. Why is that such a big deal? Seriously, facing down gunfire and bombs, it's a good thing the injuries weren't so severe. It means most of them will be right back out there hunting down a lunatic.

Apr 19, 2013#330

Hailey Knight

GasBandit said:
That guy made an interesting point, that a lot of terrorists don't become extremists until they are expatriates and spend time with other expatriates in the US, for example in mosques. In that vein, here's what the president of Chechnya has to say:

At first I thought you were just posting the untranslated part.

Apr 19, 2013#331

Frank

Last page: It isn't ok to assume using crosshairs means you're targeting something with a gun.

This page: It is ok to assume injured means gunshot.

Apr 19, 2013#332

GasBandit

Zappit said:
People don't need my help to make themselves look bad, Gas. I said fifteen were injured because fifteen were injured. So the injuries weren't gunshot wounds. Why is that such a big deal? Seriously, facing down gunfire and bombs, it's a good thing the injuries weren't so severe. It means most of them will be right back out there hunting down a lunatic.

You tried to shame them with the mental image of 15 shot cops, IE, in persistent pain and suffering with a chance of death. It's intellectual dishonesty, and I'm calling you out on it. Unless you want to argue that the first image that leaps to mind when being told of "15 police injured in shootout" is of muscle pulls and abrasions for which they are given ibuprofen and sent on their way, or that people should be somber and unsmiling when e'er a policeman stubs a toe.

Maybe someone could conceivably argue that Stienman and Gilgamesh were a little too jocular for a tragedy thread, but you came down on them with a 55 gallon drum of seething righteous indignation largely comprised of hyperbole and false imagery.[DOUBLEPOST=1366413162][/DOUBLEPOST]

Frank said:
Last page: It isn't ok to assume using crosshairs means you're targeting something with a gun.

This page: It is ok to assume injured means gunshot.

And here I was mocking Zappit because I thought nobody could possibly be moronic enough to argue that "injured in shootout" was naturally interpreted as anything other than "got shot."

Apr 19, 2013#333

Zappit

Breaking - Shots fired in Watertown. This may be it.

Edit: a body was found in a boat. It is unclear if it is the suspect, or another victim. Bomb squads and a robot are on the move, according to MSNBC.

I'm not indulging you this time, Gas. You're not worth it.

Apr 19, 2013#334

WasabiPoptart

Quotemander Prime said:
At first I thought you were just posting the untranslated part.

I thought so, too.

Apr 19, 2013#335

Frank

GasBandit said:
And here I was mocking Zappit because I thought nobody could possibly be moronic enough to argue that "injured in shootout" was naturally interpreted as anything other than "got shot."

I actually half agree with you, I just thought that it was funny.

And yeah, more shooting. Awesome.

Apr 19, 2013#336

GasBandit

I hope they manage to take this one alive. There are questions that need answering.

Apr 19, 2013#337

Zappit

Now it sounds like the person in the boat is alive, likely injured. He's under a tarp, and the area is being evacuated because they have no idea if he has any additional explosives. They might bring in a hostage negotiator to try to talk him out.

Whatever happens, he's not going to get away this time.

Apr 19, 2013#338

Tress

I'm torn. On one hand, I want them to take him alive at all costs. As has been said, there are questions that need answering. On the other hand, I don't want to see any more law enforcement officials lose their lives. And I strongly resent the implication by the Chechen president that our "security services" are bloodthirsty savages murdering people so they can calm the public.

Apr 19, 2013#339

Zappit

There's currently no movement in the boat. The guy might be bleeding out in there.

Apr 19, 2013#340

SpecialKO

Tress said:
And I strongly resent the implication by the Chechen president that our "security services" are bloodthirsty savages murdering people so they can calm the public.

Well, he would know all about that (allegedly).

Apr 19, 2013#341

Zappit

Police scanner updates have the suspect now sitting up in the boat. Media ordered to move back. Officers ordered not to fire.

Apr 19, 2013#342

jwhouk

GasBandit said:
You're missing the point. The point is when Zappit decided to throw cold water on the thread, he did it with an unqualified "15 cops injured in a shootout," which implies gunshot wounds, when most of those cops got sprains and scrapes and were back on duty same day (and ALL of them were to be discharged by the end of today).

Yes, try to make sure stienman and gil look like unfeeling monsters because of boo boos.

Gas, you come up and try to do my job or Charon's job for eight hours and THEN talk about "### ####."

...Sorry, you used trigger words for me.

Apr 19, 2013#343

Jay

Apr 19, 2013#344

Zappit

They got him, and they got him alive.

Apr 19, 2013#345

Dave

Zappit said:
They got him, and they got him alive.

Fucking a, man!! I'm shocked he didn't off himself.

Apr 19, 2013#346

Zappit

Dave said:
Fucking a, man!! I'm shocked he didn't off himself.

He might not have had the means to. If he was injured, he could have just taken off looking for a place to hide, leaving his weapons behind. Or he ran out of ammo. (more likely)

He might also have just not wanted to die, too.

Apr 19, 2013#347

strawman

It wouldn't surprise me if he was pulled into doing this by his brother anyway.

Whether he was or not, however, his best defense now is to claim he was coerced into doing this.

Apr 19, 2013#348

Zappit

stienman said:
It wouldn't surprise me if he was pulled into doing this by his brother anyway.

Whether he was or not, however, his best defense now is to claim he was coerced into doing this.

Likely to happen. It was the older brother who traveled, probably getting recruited by some group.

Apr 19, 2013#349

Dave

Man, right now the feeling in Boston is just fucking jubilation! Imagine the Friday and Saturday night bars tonight! Go tie one on, Beantown! You've fucking EARNED IT!

Apr 19, 2013#350

jwhouk

They got 'im. ALIVE.

"Suh-WEEEET CAR-O-LINE (BAMP BAMP BAHHHHH)..."

Apr 19, 2013#351

Shakey

stienman said:
It wouldn't surprise me if he was pulled into doing this by his brother anyway.

That's the feeling I've gotten from everything that has come out.

Apr 19, 2013#352

Zappit

It's nice to see people appreciate the police for a change.

Apr 19, 2013#353

Jay

Boat on land? Worst escape vehicle ever.

Apr 19, 2013#354

jwhouk

From what's started to come out, it appears at least two of the vics who are still in the hospital put the guy at the scene. One of them said he looked right at the guy as he put the bag down.

Unless we have an OJ-like screwup here, this is done.

Apr 19, 2013#355

strawman

Looks like they did get him. Huzzah!

Now we can get to collecting answers and grieving.

This isn't going to be a short process by any means...

Apr 19, 2013#356

Zappit

Public safety exemption granted in this case. Because this was an act of terrorism, the Miranda Rights weren't a priority. There could be your major legal screw-up if it's successfully challenged. This guy is a citizen, and not a foreign enemy combatant. That could get ugly, which would be a shame since it appears clear as day this guy did it.

Apr 19, 2013#356

Gilgamesh

Lets avoid personal, unwarranted attacks and/or trolling.

Consider this a first warning. Anymore reports about it and it will be points.
-ESPY

Apr 19, 2013#357

jwhouk

Look up 47 Franklin Street, Watertown, MA - I'd suggest Bird's Eye view on Bing maps.

Apr 19, 2013#358

Gilgamesh

jwhouk said:
Look up 47 Franklin Street, Watertown, MA - I'd suggest Bird's Eye view on Bing maps.

Ok?

Apr 19, 2013#359

Ravenpoe

jwhouk said:
Look up 47 Franklin Street, Watertown, MA - I'd suggest Bird's Eye view on Bing maps.

Weirdest microsoft sleeper spambot ever?

Apr 19, 2013#360

WasabiPoptart

Zappit said:
Public safety exemption granted in this case. Because this was an act of terrorism, the Miranda Rights weren't a priority. There could be your major legal screw-up if it's successfully challenged. This guy is a citizen, and not a foreign enemy combatant. That could get ugly, which would be a shame since it appears clear as day this guy did it.

This is something that has me concerned, too. But I'm not in law enforcement so I have no idea exactly how it works.

Apr 19, 2013#361

jwhouk

No, I was pointing out that if you did the search on Bing maps, you will see the boat. Google Maps only has the trailer.

Apr 19, 2013#362

ThatNickGuy

I was at work when this all went down and I nearly cheered loudly when I read the results.

If I had the money, I'd be calling a couple of Boston cop bars, give them my credit card number, and buy a round.

Apr 19, 2013#363

Dave

About the Miranda rights, there's a clause called the Public Safety Exception. It's an extremely little-used clause that allows for FEDERAL law enforcement to interrogate without the suspect having agreed to his/her rights, and this is admissible in court. The angle they are using is going to be to ensure that there are no more people involved and because of the public safety, they don't have time to let him hide behind the fifth amendment.

Not saying it's right, just that it's perfectly legal.

Apr 19, 2013#364

Gilgamesh

ThatNickGuy said:
I was at work when this all went down and I nearly cheered loudly when I read the results.

If I had the money, I'd be calling a couple of Boston cop bars, give them my credit card number, and buy a round.

I liked the news that an ER doctor bought pizza for the entire West, Texas medical crew during the night of the explosion. I'm sure there's alot of that going around that we're just not hearing about too.

Apr 20, 2013#365

Silent Bob

fade said:
I don't get the whole "Sorry libs, they're Muslim" bit. I'm seeing it a lot. In what way is that meant to be an antithesis to liberal hopes and dreams? I thought it was a fairly universal desire not to get embroiled in a huge, expensive, dangerous, international, military, religion-based conflict. I guess the idiots on the other side would've said "sorry you can't go bomb brown people" if it happened to be a right wing extremist group, even though one would hope that the desire not to have home-grown terrorists either was universal. Partisanship--no anti-party behavior lately makes my head spin.

It's the same idea as the "war on Christmas". Conservative pundits like to make up stories and ideas like liberals hoping it's a teaparty member, and then finger point while playing victim.

Apr 20, 2013#366

Krisken

Silent Bob said:
It's the same idea as the "war on Christmas". Conservative pundits like to make up stories and ideas like liberals hoping it's a teaparty member, and then finger point while playing victim.

Which is absolutely stupid. Nobody wants it to be a person of a larger group because the resources which will be needed to gather information/search out the rest of the group will be much greater than if it was a lone group of nuts. When either side does this, it makes me a little sick inside, really.

Apr 20, 2013#367

Chad Sexington

So I guess there's a subreddit called Random Acts of Pizza that sent pizza to BPD stations. I will 100% applaud reddit on this one.

Apr 20, 2013#368

Gilgamesh

Chad Sexington said:
So I guess there's a subreddit called Random Acts of Pizza that sent pizza to BPD stations. I will 100% applaud reddit on this one.

NO! REDDIT IS FOR CHILD MOLESTORS AND 4 CHAN MISOGYNISTS!!!

Apr 20, 2013#369

Chad Sexington

Gilgamesh said:
NO! REDDIT IS FOR CHILD MOLESTORS AND 4 CHAN MISOGYNISTS!!!

Well, I mean, it is, but...

Nah, my biggest grievances with Reddit are (what I see as) its egotistical culture and how much time I used to waste on it. I take a dim view of its photo-analysing, Boston-bomber-ID threads, but I can't pretend they've never done things that are cool or made me glad.

Apr 20, 2013#370

Gilgamesh

Chad Sexington said:
Well, I mean, it is, but...

Nah, my biggest grievances with Reddit are (what I see as) its egotistical culture and how much time I used to waste on it. I take a dim view of its photo-analysing, Boston-bomber-ID threads, but I can't pretend they've never done things that are cool or made me glad.

That's a pretty broad paintbrush for a community of millions

I'm sure you realize I wasn't completely pointing at you either.

Apr 20, 2013#371

Chad Sexington

No, I know, but I also know I was being critical earlier in this thread; and while I stand by that, I'm also not like... 100% antireddit reactionary.

Apr 20, 2013#372

Silent Bob

Gilgamesh said:
NO! REDDIT IS FOR CHILD MOLESTORS AND 4 CHAN MISOGYNISTS!!!

When the hell did Reddit get labeled with that stereotype?

Apr 20, 2013#373

Gilgamesh

Silent Bob said:
When the hell did Reddit get labeled with that stereotype?

Oh it didn't, it's just good ole Chuck

Apr 20, 2013#374

Charlie Don't Surf

nah, lots of people that pay attention have a really low opinion of reddit as a whole because of its many popular horrifying subreddits and the times its owners have fought to keep open subreddits like "dead jailbait"

Apr 20, 2013#375

jwhouk

I made a passing joke about how the guy who owns the boat should get a new one.

And a USA Today reporter took me seriously - and quoted me.

Apr 20, 2013#376

WasabiPoptart

jwhouk said:
I made a passing joke about how the guy who owns the boat should get a new one.

And a USA Today reporter took me seriously - and quoted me.

I read an article this morning where some people were sending him donations toward buying a new boat.

Apr 20, 2013#377

Gilgamesh

Charlie Don't Surf said:
nah, lots of people that pay attention have a really low opinion of reddit as a whole because of its many popular horrifying subreddits and the times its owners have fought to keep open subreddits like "dead jailbait"

See? Like I said, it's just Chuck.

Apr 20, 2013#378

Zappit

jwhouk said:
I made a passing joke about how the guy who owns the boat should get a new one.

And a USA Today reporter took me seriously - and quoted me.

Yeah, but it's a digital companion to a print publication, so you're still not famous.

Apr 20, 2013#379

Chad Sexington

Gilgamesh said:
See? Like I said, it's just Chuck.

Well, no, I also agree with the point he's made. Certainly if nothing else some of the things the owners have supported gave me enough pause to pretty much quit using it. I'm not about to call all of it terrible: as you pointed out, that's a broad brush for millions of people, but I do feel I can't in good conscience give it my support.

Apr 20, 2013#380

Gilgamesh

Chad Sexington said:
Well, no, I also agree with the point he's made. Certainly if nothing else some of the things the owners have supported gave me enough pause to pretty much quit using it. I'm not about to call all of it terrible: as you pointed out, that's a broad brush for millions of people, but I do feel I can't in good conscience give it my support.

That's fine, but like I said, I wasn't referring to you in the original comment you quoted.

Apr 20, 2013#381

Chad Sexington

I'm just saying it's not just CDS

I'm just maybe less.. I dunno. Blunt? Snarky? I like his snark.

Apr 20, 2013#382

Gilgamesh

Chad Sexington said:
I'm just saying it's not just CDS I'm just maybe less.. I dunno. Blunt? Snarky? I like his snark.

Ignorant to the reality of the real world what you you don't lack.

As for your opinion, at least it's based on actual experience, first hand knowledge, real opinion based on substance. That's where you differ. Noone has any problem with his blunt or snark, it's not even remotely that. I'm sure you realize this.

Apr 20, 2013#383

WasabiPoptart

I'm with Chad and Charlie on the subject of redditchan. So, no, it's not "just Chuck".

Apr 20, 2013#384

Gilgamesh

WasabiPoptart said:
I'm with Chad and Charlie on the subject of redditchan. So, no, it's not "just Chuck".

Unfortunate.

Apr 20, 2013#385

Chad Sexington

Gilgamesh said:
Ignorant to the reality of the real world what you you don't lack.

As for your opinion, at least it's based on actual experience, first hand knowledge, real opinion based on substance. That's where you differ. Noone has any problem with his blunt or snark, it's not even remotely that. I'm sure you realize this.

Haha, well, I appreciate that

I probably agree with Charlie more often than you, but I think (hope?) I get where you're coming from too. I work on being level-headed and it's more important to me to understand others and their experiences than it is to be right. But now we're getting more into my, uhm, Weltanshauung, than anything relating to the topic at hand.

Apr 20, 2013#386

Frank

Reddit_txt is the best twitter.

Apr 20, 2013#387

strawman

Is this the part of the ~~class~~forum where all the ~~cool boys~~trolls rate all the ~~girls~~websites in terms of hotness?

Because I was never included in that.

Apr 20, 2013#388

Chad Sexington

stienman said:
Is this the part of the ~~class~~forum where all the ~~cool boys~~trolls rate all the ~~girls~~websites in terms of hotness?

Because I was never included in that.

It's because we ~~hate Mormons love coffee love beer~~ didn't know you wanted to come! C'MON BUDDY YOU KNOW YOU'RE ALWAYS WELCOME!

guys! stien's crashing the party! CODE FLAMENCO! CODE FLAMENCOOOOO

Apr 20, 2013#389

Charlie Don't Surf

anyways, I'm glad this guy was caught, and I'm glad people on reddit helped out the law enforcement community of New England, whom I don't have anything bad to say regarding the whole ordeal.

Apr 20, 2013#390

CrimsonSoul

Charlie Don't Surf said:
anyways, I'm glad this guy was caught, and I'm glad people on reddit helped out the law enforcement community of New England, whom I don't have anything bad to say regarding the whole ordeal.

I'm actually very surprised he was caught alive.

Apr 20, 2013#391

jwhouk

Based on the blood in the boat, I'd say it's debatable he was actually "alive" - for varying degrees of the definition of the word "alive".

Apr 21, 2013#392

strawman

CrimsonSoul said:
I'm actually very surprised he was caught alive.

Perhaps he has his head screwed on straight. Get rid of all the evidence of weapons and explosives before capture, and you've limited your exposure just a little more. It only takes reasonable doubt.

Apr 21, 2013#393

Shawn

I'm quite amazed that these guys honestly thought they were going to get away with it. Or at least I assume that is the case. If they wanted to be caught, I doubt the shootouts and the pursuit would have happened. Instead, based on interviews from friends and schoolmates, these guys played it totally cool. Looking at the videos there is absolutely no real attempt to hide their faces. Were these guys just blissfully unaware that we entered a digital age years ago, with security cameras on every corner and shutterbugs taking hundreds of pictures and video on their iphones from every conceivable angle?

Apr 21, 2013#394

AshburnerX

That's also a HUGE amount of evidence to sift through, Shawnacy. There was an excellent chance they'd have just been overlooked in the investigation, even if only for a day or two. That would have been plenty of time for them to escape if they had actually thought this through. If they'd bought plane tickets back to Chechnya and just flown out immediately after the bombing, they'd have been scott free and then we'd need the Chechnya/Russian government to extradite them.

Really, if they'd been smarter, they could have gotten away with this easily.

Apr 21, 2013#395

Shawn

AshburnerX said:
That's also a HUGE amount of evidence to sift through, Shawnacy. There was an excellent chance they'd have just been overlooked in the investigation, even if only for a day or two. That would have been plenty of time for them to escape if they had actually thought this through. If they'd bought plane tickets back to Chechnya and just flown out immediately after the bombing, they'd have been scott free and then we'd need the Chechnya/Russian government to extradite them.

Really, if they'd been smarter, they could have gotten away with this easily.

I agree that they could have gotten away scott free fairly easily. I don't see how their identities wouldn't have been revealed at some point, but if they were out of the country by then, then yeah, we'd have difficulty tracking them down. But as soon as those security photos went up I'm sure anyone who took photos of the event were going through them to find clearer images, exactly like the ones that popped up on Reddit. They were so clear that anyone who knew the suspects would have had to have instantly recognized them.

Apr 21, 2013#396

jwhouk

And, of course, you know, they have several of the 150+ injured survivors who saw the two place the bags with the bombs.

Apr 21, 2013#397

evilmike

sixpackshaker said:
I do have to say that every MLB team playing "Sweet Caroline" choked me up a bit.

Fenway Park on Saturday

Apr 21, 2013#398

Gilgamesh

Shawnacy said:
I agree that they could have gotten away scott free fairly easily. I don't see how their identities wouldn't have been revealed at some point, but if they were out of the country by then, then yeah, we'd have difficulty tracking them down. But as soon as those security photos went up I'm sure anyone who took photos of the event were going through them to find clearer images, exactly like the ones that popped up on Reddit. They were so clear that anyone who knew the suspects would have had to have instantly recognized them.

The smarter thing to do would have been to spend an entire day + night driving to a completely different state/city. Then catch a plane to Europe. Wait a day, taxi out to another city than the one they arrived in, then fly to Chech. The trail would have been so cold/complicated it'd have never tracked them fully.

Apr 21, 2013#399

AshburnerX

It wouldn't have mattered once they hit Chech soil: Chechnya is in the Russian Federation. They sure as hell aren't going to extradite one of their own to the US and the US isn't going to risk open conflict with Russia by sending a team in to extract them. Chechnya could do it against Russia's will, but then they'd have tanks in the streets like Georgia.

Apr 21, 2013#400

Gilgamesh

AshburnerX said:
It wouldn't have mattered once they hit Chech soil: Chechnya is in the Russian Federation. They sure as hell aren't going to extradite one of their own to the US and the US isn't going to risk open conflict with Russia by sending a team in to extract them. Chechnya could do it against Russia's will, but then they'd have tanks in the streets like Georgia.

My point is, they either wouldn't have found them, or it'd have taken months at the least to even track them that far.

That would have been the real way they could have spread terror. I can only imagine how long it would have haunted people to know they were still out there and free, with no clue as to where they were. Everytime there was a bombing or threat, it would have been high alert because of them. That would have been terrible.

Apr 21, 2013#401

Hailey Knight

Let's just be glad they didn't have that kind of foresight.

Apr 21, 2013#402

Gilgamesh

Quotemander Prime said:
Let's just be glad they didn't have that kind of foresight.

It's so weird, it's like a suicide bomber's thoughts -I just need to get the bomb off, nothing after that matters- but they didn't suicide.

Apr 21, 2013#403

TommiR

AshburnerX said:
It wouldn't have mattered once they hit Chech soil: Chechnya is in the Russian Federation. They sure as hell aren't going to extradite one of their own to the US and the US isn't going to risk open conflict with Russia by sending a team in to extract them.

I'm not so sure. It isn't in Russian interests to be seen either domestically or internationally as going soft on terrorism, witness steps by Washington and the Kremlin in the aftermath of the Boston bombing. Russia has it's own problems with terrorists, both actual terrorists in the Caucasus, and general separatists the government sees convenient to label as terrorists. In any event I doubt they would have wanted to be seen as condoning acts of terror, given their domestic situation.

Perhaps the suspects wouldn't have been extradited (without some quid pro quo) had they reached Chechnya, but I doubt they'd have gotten away scott free. I think most likely they would have been arrested, with the Russians wanting to try them in Russia, and to serve their sentences there. Which might not have been a bad thing from a vengeance point of view, as I've heard russian jails really aren't very nice places. If the US agreed to this, fine. If they gave something in return for extraditing the suspects to the US (such as some co-operation regarding the Caucasus situation), good. If the US did not agree to any of this, no matter; Russia loses nothing, and possession is nine-tenths of the law anyway.

Apr 21, 2013#404

Silent Bob

AshburnerX said:
That's also a HUGE amount of evidence to sift through, Shawnacy. There was an excellent chance they'd have just been overlooked in the investigation, even if only for a day or two. That would have been plenty of time for them to escape if they had actually thought this through. If they'd bought plane tickets back to Chechnya and just flown out immediately after the bombing, they'd have been scott free and then we'd need the Chechnya/Russian government to extradite them.

Really, if they'd been smarter, they could have gotten away with this easily.

Seems like they wanted to do a string of bombings though.

Apr 21, 2013#405

jwhouk

Yeah; it'd be nice if they figured out if either of them had some sort of a plan beyond the bombs - like, say, "set off bombs in New York City" or something.

Apr 22, 2013#406

Dave

Flying to Russia wouldn't have done them any good. Russia has been telling the FBI for months that the older brother had become radicalized and was a danger to others. And the FBI did NOTHING!

So all this talk and fear-mongering about terrorists and they don't follow up on leads to an actual one?!? You just know Obama's hair is getting grayer and grayer because of crap like this.

Apr 22, 2013#407

jwhouk

They did nothing because there is no law against trolling in this country.

And there won't be, until they repeal the 1st Amendment.

Apr 22, 2013#408

SpecialKO

Also, apparently the Russians send out notices like this every single time someone from that region (or whose family is from that region) goes back there. So they've basically spammed the FBI with virus warnings for years, and the FBI has apparently started just ignoring them (or putting them on low-to-no priority, anyways).

It just sounds like a big clusterfuck.

Apr 22, 2013#409

Dave

SpecialKO said:
Also, apparently the Russians send out notices like this every single time someone from that region (or whose family is from that region) goes back there. So they've basically spammed the FBI with virus warnings for years, and the FBI has apparently started just ignoring them (or putting them on low-to-no priority, anyways).

It just sounds like a big clusterfuck.

I did not know that. Good information.

May 8, 2014#411

Dave

And now the kicker:

Boston Bomber might walk due to rights violations during questioning.

Now, this doesn't mean he'll automatically be acquitted, but any statements he made during his time with the FBI might be thrown out, which means the case will be much more difficult to prosecute, which means his chances have gone up considerably. He'll still probably be convicted, but the government's case has just gotten considerably more difficult to prove.

May 9, 2014#412

Espy

It appears someone forgot the thread he was posting in was locked

May 9, 2014#413

Dave

Uh...it was? Sorry.

May 9, 2014#414

sixpackshaker

This should still be a slam dunk conviction. There is far too much physical evidence that places him with the bombs and bombing.

May 9, 2014#415

fade

That's what they said about Freddy Kreuger, too.

May 9, 2014#416

Officer_Charon

I could see the exigent circumstances argument being used.... but only up to the point where they found out there were no other explosive devices involved.... much past that, and it gets harder for them to justify questioning.

May 9, 2014#417

PatrThom

Espy said:
It appears someone forgot the thread he was posting in was locked

Too bad we don't have a "Needs an unlock" rating.

--Patrick

May 9, 2014#418

Charlie Don't Surf

holy shit, this is horrible:

He assured agents that no one but him and his brother were involved in the bombings, and that there were no remaining bombs, the defense says. He wrote the word "lawyer" 10 times, and circled it.

I can at least hope this massive violation of rights could at least save this kid from the death penalty

May 9, 2014#419

Espy

Yeah, it's pretty inexcusable that they violated his rights. Doing that is the biggest disservice to the public and the victims that the police could have done. You aren't Jack Baer dumbasses, and this isn't TV where there are no consequences.

May 9, 2014#420

sixpackshaker

Charlie Don't Surf said:
holy shit, this is horrible:

I can at least hope this massive violation of rights could at least save this kid from the death penalty

You know he did not knock over the corner store.

May 9, 2014#421

Dave

sixpackshaker said:
You know he did not knock over the corner store.

Charlie is totally anti-death penalty, so I can see how he'd be pleased at the aspect of this guy not getting a death sentence. I can dig that.

I think that life in prison would fit this guy pretty well. But there's no excuse for the authorities to have acted the way they did. They must be above reproach in instances such as this.

May 9, 2014#422

sixpackshaker

If the Feds went to the degree the defense team claims, then fine, throw out that evidence. Because it is likely unreliable anyway. Like I said before, there is a mountain of evidence out there. Then leave it to the good people of Massachusetts to decide if the crime he committed is worth ending his life.

May 9, 2014#423

CrimsonSoul

The thing is if he gets life in prision he will more than likely be in Ad-seg/protective custody the whole time which means 23 hours in a cell and 1 hour of rec a day... sooo... sucks for him?

May 9, 2014#424

ThatNickGuy

Thing is, if in the event he DOES walk, he would best get the hell out of Boston ASAP. I suspect someone looking for justice/revenge would hunt him down soon enough unless he was under police protection.

May 11, 2014#425

strawman

Of course the defense is going to argue that his rights were violated. It doesn't matter whether they were violated or not, but they have to argue the question and have the court make a definitive ruling. If they don't, the whole thing will be declared a mistrial later on with better lawyers.

So yes, the defense is attempting to prove that law enforcement were convinced there was no lingering threat after an hour of questioning, and that the last twenty hours were unnecessary.

They may well be wrong. It may be that the defense thinks, in hindsight, that law enforcement had enough evidence to know there was no further threat, but at the time of the bombing I don't think anyone ratcheted down the tension to the point where everyone felt completely safe in the first 24 hours after the defendant was caught. And I doubt they were particularly convinced that they were alone. They continued the investigation into their past, their associates, etc for a long time to determine if they were part of a cell, under orders, or had some sort of leadership or guidance that suggested a continued threat.

Yes, the defense is going to argue that this mans rights were violated.

Good.

I do not want any sloppy work done that would possibly jeopardize the conviction down the road. I doubt the judge and prosecution want anything overlooked either.

If there was misconduct, call it out, throw out the evidence, and use what's left.

It's enough, and whatever is decided needs to stick.

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