[Rant] Minor Rant III: For a Few Hollers More

[GasBandit]

This weekend, I'd planned to spend some time cleaning up the house.
Didn't do it.

I'd planned to excercise once or twice.
Didn't even once.

I'd thought to take the cat to the groomer's and get his claws trimmed.
Didn't do it.

Such a feckin' lump I was, this weekend. I guess there's some solace in that I did get to the grocery store and paid the bills, but damn.

 

[HCGLNS]

Only the right side of my mustache has grey hairs.

 

[drawn_inward]

We dropped off our 8 month old at her first day of daycare today. It was awful. She cried so much and so hard that she vomited on my wife. My wife and I were both crying. The baby finally exhausted herself to sleep. We put her in one of the cribs and left. I feel like absolute shit. Everything about this feels so wrong: 1. strangers raising our kid 2. the potential epigenetic damage from the emotional trauma 3. the ridiculous amount of money
I don't know if we can handle this. They keep saying that it's harder on the parents than it is on the kids. All of the pro-daycare stuff sounds like utter bullshit to me. It sounds like justifications for dumping your kid off. I see zero benefit. None. My wife and I are both scientists and if we walk away from our jobs to stay home with her then it's going to be quite tough to get back in later. It's heartbreaking to think about her waking up there, and not remembering where she is at and not knowing the people.

I am leaving at 1pm to go get her because I don't want her to spend an entire day there.

 

[MindDetective]

2. the potential epigenetic damage from the emotional trauma

You aren't going to get that in a single event. And my son was the type to cry until he vomited (he hasn't been to daycare yet...he did this at home.) And he is a very sweet almost 3-year old (as sweet as they can get, anyways.) It will be okay.

 

[HCGLNS]

The worst is when they don't cry after a few drop offs.

 

[Adam]

Telling my boss that "I told Adam that I wasn't right for this job." during a disciplinary meeting is not a way to make friends and influence people.

 

[Squidleybits]

Brutal!!! What did your boss say?

We had a guy saying that a while back and it was soooooo frustrating. Thank god he finally found something else.

 

[PatrThom]

Telling my boss that "I told Adam that I wasn't right for this job." during a disciplinary meeting is not a way to make friends and influence people.

"I'm really impressed by your honesty. Also, you're fired."

--Patrick

 

[Adam]

Brutal!!! What did your boss say?

We had a guy saying that a while back and it was soooooo frustrating. Thank god he finally found something else.

Well, I just hired her three weeks ago and she's been struggling. A lot of really hard personal issues coupled with a lack of confidence due to some bad communications (And some dumb decisions on her part) and she gets called before my boss and just bursts into tears. And then near the end of it, she's blaming me for hiring her in the first place

It was the "I've got in shit three times this week and I can't do anything fucking right!" that almost got her fired though. This is a professional work environment, and you probably shouldn't talk to the COO like that...

 

[Squidleybits]

Oh my god!

You have the patience of a saint if you can deal with level of crap with a straight face.

 

[drawn_inward]

You aren't going to get that in a single event.

Agreed. I was worried more about the long-term effects of her crying inconsolably every morning for an extended period of time.

And my son was the type to cry until he vomited (he hasn't been to daycare yet...he did this at home.)

At home. I would be much more comfortable if she was at home with someone that loves her. Not an ancient women and a girl just out of H.S. (so what if they have been trained and accredited). The ratio is 1:5. If my daughter starts wailing and then vomits and then aspirates, what are the chances of a quick response?

It will be okay.

I sure hope so.

The worst is when they don't cry after a few drop offs.

That would be welcomed. I would be glad to know she is happy and eating and is okay with being there.

She didn't drink any milk from 8:30 to 1 pm because she was so upset at daycare. She threw up again before I had arrived. She was so hungry when I got her home.

 

[WasabiPoptart]

She will get used to it. It's a transition and she's in the developmental period where separation anxiety is starting. I highly doubt she will suffer long-term ill-effects from going to daycare unless the people there are completely cold to her needs. It is actually healthy for her to see that other people can care for her besides you and your wife. Maybe this can help you.

http://www.parenting.com/article/separation-anxiety-age-by-age

 

[Cajungal]

It's really sad when a day care teacher doesn't have a basic command of the language. This girl sounds like she's drunk. Even the pre-k kids can barely follow her.

 

[Jay]

She didn't drink any milk from 8:30 to 1 pm because she was so upset at daycare. She threw up again before I had arrived. She was so hungry when I got her home.

Hey man, I hope your girl is alright.

I feel for you, my daughter started daycare 3 weeks ago.

Trust me when I tell you this... it gets better.

I see it from day to day.

The first week, it'll suck. Leyla cried when I let her go and cries when she see me pick her up. It still happens. But from what I see, she stops shortly after instead of ongoing.

The separation anxiety is a phase, most children go through it and they go through it completely differently. Expect it to last not weeks but actually months. Take it one day at a time and be happy to know she loves you... you know before she becomes "the tween" and all hell breaks loose.

You know what is worse than all this, my man? The sicknesses. My child is barely there for 3 weeks and she's starting her 3rd sickness. First week she gets a cold. Last week it was hand foot mouth disease and this week I think it's another cold. This morning her nose was running non-stop and for the first time in her life had one of those wet coughs that sucks to hear.

Sleeping at night sucks in this home the last few weeks as she's adapting to her new schedule and fighting off the sicknesses. I think in the last 2 weeks, I've only had 2 nights of proper rest. Most night, I'm up at 4 AM taking care of her while the wife tries to sleep as she has work the next day and has a huge month.

Take it one day at a time.

When she's with you. Enjoy your time with her. Don't feel sorry for her. She won't remember this very much in the weeks to come. Be there. Support her. Love her and most importantly be proud of her.

This ain't easy for everyone.

One last piece of advise. One a week, if you're unable to go out for a date with your SO with someone taking care of her, arrange to go out one night for a few hours and liberate the mind so you don't feel guilty. Let your significant other do the same.

It's pretty damn therapeutic.

It'll get better, albeit a little at a time.

Cheers mate.

As for the day care, there are others you can go to if you don't like it. Never limit yourself. Give it a chance and if not, before the monthly contract is up, go elsewhere.

 

[drawn_inward]

Hey man, I hope your girl is alright.

I feel for you, my daughter started daycare 3 weeks ago.

Trust me when I tell you this... it gets better.

Spoiler

I see it from day to day.

The first week, it'll suck. Leyla cried when I let her go and cries when she see me pick her up. It still happens. But from what I see, she stops shortly after instead of ongoing.

The separation anxiety is a phase, most children go through it and they go through it completely differently. Expect it to last not weeks but actually months. Take it one day at a time and be happy to know she loves you... you know before she becomes "the tween" and all hell breaks loose.

You know what is worse than all this, my man? The sicknesses. My child is barely there for 3 weeks and she's starting her 3rd sickness. First week she gets a cold. Last week it was hand foot mouth disease and this week I think it's another cold. This morning her nose was running non-stop and for the first time in her life had one of those wet coughs that sucks to hear.

Sleeping at night sucks in this home the last few weeks as she's adapting to her new schedule and fighting off the sicknesses. I think in the last 2 weeks, I've only had 2 nights of proper rest. Most night, I'm up at 4 AM taking care of her while the wife tries to sleep as she has work the next day and has a huge month.

Take it one day at a time.

When she's with you. Enjoy your time with her. Don't feel sorry for her. She won't remember this very much in the weeks to come. Be there. Support her. Love her and most importantly be proud of her.

This ain't easy for everyone.

One last piece of advise. One a week, if you're unable to go out for a date with your SO with someone taking care of her, arrange to go out one night for a few hours and liberate the mind so you don't feel guilty. Let your significant other do the same.

It's pretty damn therapeutic.

It'll get better, albeit a little at a time.

Cheers mate.

As for the day care, there are others you can go to if you don't like it. Never limit yourself. Give it a chance and if not, before the monthly contract is up, go elsewhere.

Seriously @Jay - thank you! I appreciate it. I am sure I am being melodramatic about all this, but damn it's hard. Thankfully she had 8 months at home with grandparents that loved her and played with her and she wasn't sick a single day. I know the ear-aches and fevers are coming.

Spoiler

I hope your little one gets well soon. I don't have enough immunological education to know if this is true, but we've been told by other science folk that when your baby comes home from day care, then your wife should snuggle with the baby. Your wife will get exposed to the antigens to make antibodies that will get delivered through the breast milk. It sounds reasonable.

Thanks @WasabiPoptart @MindDetective and other for the hugs! Cheers all!

 

[Jay]

We didn't breast feed her.

IT WAS ALL FOR ME

 

[PatrThom]

We didn't breast feed her.

IT WAS ALL FOR ME

Well, at least you won't have to call in sick.

--Patrick

 

[Celt Z]

We didn't breast feed her.

IT WAS ALL FOR ME

Ew. Breast milk? I know it's great for babies, but the taste?

I have to find it again, but there was a study done recently that found over-all care (doctor's appointments, quality of food, etc.) has more effect on health and intellect than breast feeding vs. formula. As long as she's getting good, regular care, it won't matter in the long run.

 

[Jay]

Ew. Breast milk? I know it's great for babies, but the taste?

 

[fade]

I learned to hate La Leche League. Those Nazis make you feel terrible about not breast feeding. We tried, but neither child would latch on. In two states on opposite ends of the country, the LLL affiliates made us feel bad and failed to offer any real effective coaching. In fact, in both places, they seemed more interested in power-tripping over a new mom than helping my wife through something she already felt very bad about.

 

[Jay]

Seriously @Jay - thank you! I appreciate it. I am sure I am being melodramatic about all this, but damn it's hard. Thankfully she had 8 months at home with grandparents that loved her and played with her and she wasn't sick a single day. I know the ear-aches and fevers are coming.

Interesting tidbit. Dropped Leyla off this morning... it was close... but she didn't cry.

I was happy.

Take it one day at a time.

Right now I'm not wearing pants at home.

 

[PatrThom]

Right now I'm not wearing pants at home.

Me neither! Yay for days off!

--Patrick

 

[GasBandit]

Found out this morning my step-grandmother (Stepmom's mom) had a stroke last week. She's in the hospital, and sleeps most of the time... but when she's awake, she's demented and does little else than call for Jesus to "come and take her because she's ready." I wouldn't say we were especially close (she always felt more like a seldom-seen aunt than an actual grandparent), but we were friendly and family, and it's tough to hear about someone suffering so in their final days. Dad says it could be any day now, he's surprised she's lasted this long.

 

[drawn_inward]

Found out this morning my step-grandmother (Stepmom's mom) had a stroke last week. She's in the hospital, and sleeps most of the time... but when she's awake, she's demented and does little else than call for Jesus to "come and take her because she's ready." I wouldn't say we were especially close (she always felt more like a seldom-seen aunt than an actual grandparent), but we were friendly and family, and it's tough to hear about someone suffering so in their final days. Dad says it could be any day now, he's surprised she's lasted this long.

Sorry buddy.

I hope it all goes quick and pain-free in the end.

 

[drawn_inward]

Ew. Breast milk? I know it's great for babies, but the taste?

I have to find it again, but there was a study done recently that found over-all care (doctor's appointments, quality of food, etc.) has more effect on health and intellect than breast feeding vs. formula. As long as she's getting good, regular care, it won't matter in the long run.

I am not trying to start a boob juice flame-war here, but there is plenty of evidence that mother's milk it superior to formula in terms of getting the baby's immune-response and gut-bacteria colonized. I would have to read the report that you have specified before I changed my mind.

Here is a recent report (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3472256/) talking about how the micro-biome is different in breast-fed vs formula, and how that affects health.

Spoiler

Numerous studies have been performed in the last decades with the aim to define short- and long-term effects related to the initial microbial gut colonization.
The nature of mucosal microflora acquired in early infancy has been proven to be critical in the determination of mucosal immune response and tolerance, so that alterations of gut environment are directly responsible for mucosal inflammation and disease, autoimmunity, and allergic disorders in childhood and adulthood (Gronlund et al., 2000; Ogra and Welliver, 2008). The type of feeding, through its selective action on bacterial colonization and growth, which, in turn, induce specific T cell responses and modulates substrates oxidation and consumption, has a major impact on the development of immune functions and oral tolerance (Palma et al., 2012). Systematic revisions of available data, pointed out the protective role of breast-feeding against the development of diarrhoea and necrotizing enterocolitis in the newborn (Mackie et al., 1999), and allergic and autoimmune diseases in childhood, including coeliac disease (Akobeng et al., 2006; Palma et al., 2012), type I diabetes and atopic dermatitis, whereas no clear risk reduction was evident in relation with asthma or allergic rhinitis (Bjorksten, 2005; Kramer, 2011). Later in life, breast-feeding has been associated to a reduced risk of inflammatory bowel diseases, cardiovascular diseases, obesity, and type-2 diabetes.

Spoiler

Several studies performed in the past decades have clearly demonstrated the complexity of gut microbiota composition and the modulatory effect played by several endogenous and exogenous factors on it. Type of feeding in the first months of life appears as one of the most important determinants of the child and adult well-being, and its protective action seems to rely mainly on its ability to modulate intestinal microflora composition at early stages of life. In recent years, the implementation of milk formula with prebiotics, probiotics, and lactoferrin has been demonstrated to change newborns’ microflora composition toward breast-feeding pattern and stimulate immune response. At the same time, no definitive results are available regarding the real health improvement, so that breast milk, whose beneficial health-effects are undoubtedly unique, has to be considered the food of choice for infants in the first 6 months of life.
For the same reasons, breast-feeding should be encouraged and, at the same time, new researches are advised in order to better define the composition of intestinal microbial ecosystem and the specific interactions amongst diet, microbiota composition, and children health.

It does seem that current baby formula is getting better at mimicking mother's milk, but it's still not as good.

I think what is comes down to is that breastfeeding (especially colostrum) is key to aiding the immune system and gut flora of infants. For toddlers and older, the child's genetics and the environment are bigger influences of health and well-being.

No shaming here. Our baby had a very difficult time breast feeding directly. So, my wife pumps and feeds her with a bottle. There is some loss of nutrients that way, but it's the best she could do. We do supplement with formula b/c there aren't enough hours in the day.

 

[WasabiPoptart]

I think the point that CeltZ was making is that it is more important to have a nurturing relationship with your baby than it is to be stressed out over breast vs. formula. Particularly when us Moms already have so much guilt thrown at us over practically every detail of how we raise our babies. Love the baby. Feed the baby. Provide security for the baby. That's what matters.

 

[GasBandit]

Love the baby. Feed the baby. Provide security for the baby. Kick the baby.

Dooon't kick da baby.

Kick the baby!

 

[WasabiPoptart]

I do a good imitation of Ike saying that. LOL

 

[Ravenpoe]

Dooon't kick da baby.

Kick the baby!

Goddamnit, I was going to post that exact same thing.

 

[drawn_inward]

I think the point that CeltZ was making is that it is more important to have a nurturing relationship with your baby than it is to be stressed out over breast vs. formula. Particularly when us Moms already have so much guilt thrown at us over practically every detail of how we raise our babies. Love the baby. Feed the baby. Provide security for the baby. That's what matters.

I more or less agreed with her point. I just wanted to show that there is a difference.

Sadly, it doesn't seem to matter which way one raises a child; there are always those that claim that "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! Warrbblgrrbll!"

I hope I didn't come across that way.

 

[WasabiPoptart]

I don't think you did.

 

[fade]

Huh. I just had a thought about the rising prevalence of allergies. These are the kids of generation X, or the formula generation. What if some vital immune system component wasn't passed from the boomers to some of generation X? Like an immuno-balancer or suppressor that kept the system from going haywire on itself.

 

[Celt Z]

I am not trying to start a boob juice flame-war here, but there is plenty of evidence that mother's milk it superior to formula in terms of getting the baby's immune-response and gut-bacteria colonized. I would have to read the report that you have specified before I changed my mind.

Here is a recent report (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3472256/) talking about how the micro-biome is different in breast-fed vs formula, and how that affects health.

Spoiler

Numerous studies have been performed in the last decades with the aim to define short- and long-term effects related to the initial microbial gut colonization.
The nature of mucosal microflora acquired in early infancy has been proven to be critical in the determination of mucosal immune response and tolerance, so that alterations of gut environment are directly responsible for mucosal inflammation and disease, autoimmunity, and allergic disorders in childhood and adulthood (Gronlund et al., 2000; Ogra and Welliver, 2008). The type of feeding, through its selective action on bacterial colonization and growth, which, in turn, induce specific T cell responses and modulates substrates oxidation and consumption, has a major impact on the development of immune functions and oral tolerance (Palma et al., 2012). Systematic revisions of available data, pointed out the protective role of breast-feeding against the development of diarrhoea and necrotizing enterocolitis in the newborn (Mackie et al., 1999), and allergic and autoimmune diseases in childhood, including coeliac disease (Akobeng et al., 2006; Palma et al., 2012), type I diabetes and atopic dermatitis, whereas no clear risk reduction was evident in relation with asthma or allergic rhinitis (Bjorksten, 2005; Kramer, 2011). Later in life, breast-feeding has been associated to a reduced risk of inflammatory bowel diseases, cardiovascular diseases, obesity, and type-2 diabetes.

Spoiler

Several studies performed in the past decades have clearly demonstrated the complexity of gut microbiota composition and the modulatory effect played by several endogenous and exogenous factors on it. Type of feeding in the first months of life appears as one of the most important determinants of the child and adult well-being, and its protective action seems to rely mainly on its ability to modulate intestinal microflora composition at early stages of life. In recent years, the implementation of milk formula with prebiotics, probiotics, and lactoferrin has been demonstrated to change newborns’ microflora composition toward breast-feeding pattern and stimulate immune response. At the same time, no definitive results are available regarding the real health improvement, so that breast milk, whose beneficial health-effects are undoubtedly unique, has to be considered the food of choice for infants in the first 6 months of life.
For the same reasons, breast-feeding should be encouraged and, at the same time, new researches are advised in order to better define the composition of intestinal microbial ecosystem and the specific interactions amongst diet, microbiota composition, and children health.

It does seem that current baby formula is getting better at mimicking mother's milk, but it's still not as good.

I think what is comes down to is that breastfeeding (especially colostrum) is key to aiding the immune system and gut flora of infants. For toddlers and older, the child's genetics and the environment are bigger influences of health and well-being.

No shaming here. Our baby had a very difficult time breast feeding directly. So, my wife pumps and feeds her with a bottle. There is some loss of nutrients that way, but it's the best she could do. We do supplement with formula b/c there aren't enough hours in the day.

Not a problem. Li'l Z got both boob and formula because I believe in passing the anitbodies, especially since I've been in pretty good health my whole life. And I don't disagree about the good things that come from "boob juice", either. I had to dig to find the article study again (sorry about the source, I couldn't find the original place I read it): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-risk-asthma-expert-claims.html#ixzz2uWHhq2Ip

Spoiler

She analysed a total of 8,237 children made up of 7,319 siblings and 1,773 ‘discordant’ sibling pairs, where one was breastfed with the other given a bottle.
The study measured BMI (body mass index), obesity, asthma, hyperactivity, parental attachment and behaviour as well as scores predicting academic achievement in vocabulary, reading, maths, intelligence and scholastic competence.
Across all of the families, breastfeeding resulted in better outcomes in BMI, hyperactivity, maths, reading recognition, vocabulary word identification, digit recollection, scholastic competence and obesity.
But when restricted to siblings differently fed within the same families, scores reflecting breastfeeding’s positive effects on 10 of the indicators were closer to zero and not statistically significant – meaning any differences could have occurred by chance.

Basically meaning that the people like LLL that think they are setting up their child for nothing for success in life aren't taking into account that there are other factors that have to be met in order for the breast milk to really support long-term health and development. It's a great thing to give your kid, but not a guaranteed leg-up.

 

[PatrThom]

I think the point that CeltZ was making is that it is more important to have a nurturing relationship with your baby than it is to be stressed out over breast vs. formula.

...especially since stress will reduce your output.

If you're one of those people with an estrogen surplus, you're just gonna dry up faster. Make the most of it while you can, that's all.

--Patrick

 

[MindDetective]

Huh. I just had a thought about the rising prevalence of allergies. These are the kids of generation X, or the formula generation. What if some vital immune system component wasn't passed from the boomers to some of generation X? Like an immuno-balancer or suppressor that kept the system from going haywire on itself.

Relevant: http://io9.com/researchers-isolate-a-gut-microbe-that-combats-food-all-1626987928